My EA has transitioned to PA plus I've asked for divorce

[BaileyB]

It is astounding how very little effort he had to put in to get you to promise him sex and turn away from your family. You were an easy target and you went willingly into his arms - he's probably surprised at how very little effort it took.

 

And again, the timeline goes to show how very little you know about this man. You are about to blow up your life for a man that you barely know.

 

If a man pursued me this way, I would be really suspicious and totally creeped out. I wouldn't give him the time of day...

Edited November 9, 2017 by BaileyB

[niteandfog]

It is astounding how very little effort he had to put in to get you to promise him sex and turn away from your family. You were an easy target and you went willingly into his arms - he's probably surprised at how very little effort it took.

 

And again, the timeline goes to show how very little you know about this man. You are about to blow up your life for a man that you barely know.

 

If a man pursued me this way, I would be really suspicious and totally creeped out. I wouldn't give him the time of day...

 

Well he didn't know I was passively looking for an affair , so yup, i was easy, I was very easy.

 

So given all of this... He doesn't have to tell me I'm the woman of his dreams and how much he wants to hold me / write songs about me/ just think about me.

 

I suspect the same thing that happened to me, happened to him.. We both just wanted a fling, an ego boost, but found compatibility instead.

Edited November 9, 2017 by niteandfog

[BaileyB]

Well he didn't know I was passively looking for an affair , so yup, i was easy, I was very easy.

 

So given all of this... He doesn't have to tell me I'm the woman of his dreams and how much he wants to hold me / write songs about me/ just think about me.

 

I suspect the same thing that happened to me, happened to him.. We both just wanted a fling and ego boost, but found compatibility instead.

 

Why wouldn't he tell you that he wants to hold you, this is what men do... He wants sex, this is the best way to get it.

 

Again, you hardly know this man. You've been talking with this man for what - two weeks now? He is totally love bombing you - and you seem to not see this as a red flag because "you have already promised him sex." Instead of seeing his behavior as a red flag, you see it as a sign of sincerity.

 

You have admitted that you are young and inexperienced. I would argue that what you see as "compatibility" is little more than lust and a nice feeling that someone is paying attention to you. You can't possibly say that you are compatable with this man in the long term - you don't know him!

 

No doubt, you will discover this with time...

Edited November 9, 2017 by BaileyB

[niteandfog]

But I've told him the door is literally open... he just has to take a sick day! I'm always by myself at home.

 

Yes, I'm extremely inexperienced. And no... it's not because we can talk about "everything and anything and giggle!!" kind of thing. no, we have meaningful conversations about our interests. and he could be sure faking it... but he knows his stuff. We talk about music composition something I haven't been able to talk to for years! Or we talk about running techniques / training programs / shoes... Sound equipment / compression. These are all extremely niche conversations.

 

He says he hasn't been able to have these conversations for a while and I believe him because the same has happened to me.

 

i have no idea if we're compatible for life, but one thing is for sure.. I've found someone who I can talk to about my passion (music) and not get the "there she goes again".

 

He could be a girl for that matter, I've found someone I can connect with in the same way I connected with my friends when I was 23. i've found a friend and I guess we both feel the same way in that regard.

[jah526]

I would argue it's not "just sex" these guys want. They want a side-piece. Someone to run to when the pressures of their real lives get too much, an escape hatch, someone to be their pleasure bot and service them, and then go back to what they really value.

 

The game has to be played a little differently in this case, because he wants you for the long term, to use you whenever and however he wants. So he has to convince you that it is all star-crossed love and romance to keep you coming back.

 

As women we have a hard time understanding this because we aren't wired the same way. Men it seems have a much easier time separating sex and feelings. That's why you have to look at actions instead of listening to words.

[niteandfog]

I would argue it's not "just sex" these guys want. They want a side-piece. Someone to run to when the pressures of their real lives get too much, an escape hatch, someone to be their pleasure bot and service them, and then go back to what they really value.

 

The game has to be played a little differently in this case, because he wants you for the long term, to use you whenever and however he wants. So he has to convince you that it is all star-crossed love and romance to keep you coming back.

 

As women we have a hard time understanding this because we aren't wired the same way. Men it seems have a much easier time separating sex and feelings. That's why you have to look at actions instead of listening to words.

 

 

I guess I could see this one being more likely, although I would argue he wants me more as a long term friend and AP.

[grass-hopper]

Nitefog, I’ve been reading through this thread and feel compassion for you because i understand everything you’re feeling from this A as I find myself in a somewhat similar situation (most of these A stories have eerie similarities). And I see you defending your stance and your feelings. Just as I know I do.

But I’ve gained some clarity as the person from the outside looking in. And I see that you may be focusing on all the wrong things in this A. Just like I do. And I wonder is that what they mean when they refer to it as the affair fog?

What I am seeing is

-you are placing your child’s needs last. Once we enter parenthood, it’s necessary to put our needs and wants last and ensure that our sole focus needs to be on what’s best for our child

-you are placing a huge amount of blame on your H. You are not taking ownership to your decision to enter this A, rather you are blaming him for your actions and your feelings of loss of youth and freedom

-you are building up this MM as some sort of good guy. A man who is lying and cheating on his wife and kids. A man who is comfortable starting online affairs and sending di** pics.

I think that if you are as unhappy as you say you are then you should leave your H. Because we can’t really give our children what they need if we are miserable and unhappy.

But I also think you need to take care of your MH issues and work on yourself before you convince yourself that this is “the one”. Because not until you work on yourself, will you really see that you are worth more than this MM who will likely do to you what he is doing to his wife. You should be the only one in someone’s life and not be someone’s side piece just because you like the same music and have things in common.

I think your initial question at the beginning of this thread was how to know he’s not lying He is lying. You just don’t want to see it or accept it. But it will eventually rear it’s ugly head. And you will be left feeling guilt and shame for thinking this is more than what is really was and risking everything for someone who used all your good intentions.

Now if only I can ease myself out of the similar mind frame that you are in.

[niteandfog]

hat they mean when they refer to it as the affair fog?

What I am seeing is

-you are placing your child’s needs last. Once we enter parenthood, it’s necessary to put our needs and wants last and ensure that our sole focus needs to be on what’s best for our child

-you are placing a huge amount of blame on your H. You are not taking ownership to your decision to enter this A, rather you are blaming him for your actions and your feelings of loss of youth and freedom

-you are building up this MM as some sort of good guy. A man who is lying and cheating on his wife and kids. A man who is comfortable starting online affairs and sending di** pics.

I think that if you are as unhappy as you say you are then you should leave your H. Because we can’t really give our children what they need if we are miserable and unhappy.

But I also think you need to take care of your MH issues and work on yourself before you convince yourself that this is “the one”. Because not until you work on yourself, will you really see that you are worth more than this MM who will likely do to you what he is doing to his wife. You should be the only one in someone’s life and not be someone’s side piece just because you like the same music and have things in common.

I think your initial question at the beginning of this thread was how to know he’s not lying He is lying. You just don’t want to see it or accept it. But it will eventually rear it’s ugly head. And you will be left feeling guilt and shame for thinking this is more than what is really was and risking everything for someone who used all your good intentions.

Now if only I can ease myself out of the similar mind frame that you are in.

 

Yes and no. This year I've realized that I am my priority. I am happy and fulfilled = happier child. Does she watch tons of TV while I go and train for marathons? Yeah for sure. But other wise I would only be half there, i might as well do something with my time. Does she have to go to extra child care so I can train? yes, absolutely! Do I regret it? No, not at all. This year has been the happiest i've had in a very long time. Because I started to see myself as many things, one of them is mother, but it's not the main one, and never will be.

 

 

Not at all, I willingly walked into this affair. I wanted it. In fact i fantasized about having an affair one day. Clearly I should have divorced a very long time ago. I don't have the guts to actively pursue it, but man I definitely wanted t have some fun on the side. and it's not my H's fault . It's mine for not being honest with him. I should have left, many, many years ago.

 

I don't think he's a good man. We both clearly have the same moral compass. Neither of us are good people, we both want to cheat on our spouses. We could be good in other realms of our life, but definitely not in the relationship front.

 

As far as I can tell, we both entered this A knowing that we were both cheaters. Do I deserve something better? Probably not. At least not for now. I think the only people who deserve better are our spouses.

[DKT3]

Yes and no. This year I've realized that I am my priority. I am happy and fulfilled = happier child. Does she watch tons of TV while I go and train for marathons? Yeah for sure. But other wise I would only be half there, i might as well do something with my time. Does she have to go to extra child care so I can train? yes, absolutely! Do I regret it? No, not at all. This year has been the happiest i've had in a very long time. Because I started to see myself as many things, one of them is mother, but it's not the main one, and never will be.

 

 

Not at all, I willingly walked into this affair. I wanted it. In fact i fantasized about having an affair one day. Clearly I should have divorced a very long time ago. I don't have the guts to actively pursue it, but man I definitely wanted t have some fun on the side. and it's not my H's fault . It's mine for not being honest with him. I should have left, many, many years ago.

 

I don't think he's a good man. We both clearly have the same moral compass. Neither of us are good people, we both want to cheat on our spouses. We could be good in other realms of our life, but definitely not in the relationship front.

 

As far as I can tell, we both entered this A knowing that we were both cheaters. Do I deserve something better? Probably not. At least not for now. I think the only people who deserve better are our spouses.

Wow... I think this post is very troubling especially the part about not seeing yourself as mainly a mother...if your unwilling to place your small childs needs first then who will? That is your number 1 responsibility, after all the child didn't negotiate it's way into the world you brought her back into the world, only to now say your happiness is number one... really troubling.

[niteandfog]

I'm sorry but there are plenty of other moms that share my views of not defining themselves as mothers. All her basic needs and beyond are met. So I really don't see what the problem is? Simply I won't plan my holiday around her for example. Or a Saturday unless she has any of the million extracurricular activities she attends.

[Bittersweetie]

After knowing my xAP a couple of weeks, I thought we were soulmates. We were so compatible. So much in common! It was amazing.

 

What I see now is that I projected everything I wanted and needed at that time onto xAP. Thus making him into the perfect man for me. Of course no one else could compare...because the xAP was not a real person. He was what I wanted him to be.

 

Does that make sense? Because I see some of that in your story. You feel you have common interests, are compatible. I did too but in reality I didn't know xAP that well at all. I believe he reflected a lot of what I told him back at me to strengthen the connection. And I bought it completely.

 

When I had my A I did not have children. My xAP did. And now that I am a mother, it is horrifying to me that I took part in the deception between a father and child. My xAP's wife was away on a humanitarian mission, and he got a babysitter for his kids so he could go out with me. Think about that. What kind of parent does that?

 

Maybe think about this: what kind of person do you want to be for your daughter? Because this isn't just about you. It is about her as well.

[Bittersweetie]

I'm sorry but there are plenty of other moms that share my views of not defining themselves as mothers. All her basic needs and beyond are met. So I really don't see what the problem is? Simply I won't plan my holiday around her for example. Or a Saturday unless she has any of the million extracurricular activities she attends.

 

I agree, I am a firm believer in maternal self-care and in defining myself in ways other than a mom. However, there are ways to do this that don't involve cheating, lying, an affair.

[pheonixrisen]

It's not always as black and white as simply grooming you for sex and then taking it as soon as he can. It could be possible he is playing a bigger, more sophisticated power game. Gaining your trust, saying exactly what you want to hear, playing with your emotions, making you bound to him, making you fall in love with him, seeing how much he can control you and get you under his influence and then seeing how much he can manipulate you as his puppet. His not grabbbing the sex immediately on offer could itself be a play to convince you that he sees you as so much more than a sex object.

 

It sounds horrible and far-fetched, but it does happen, sadly. Clever sharks don’t show themselves as sharks, but as nice loveable dolphins in disguise. Ever seen “American Psycho”? The psycho didn’t show himself as a psycho until it was too late to escape - he was charm personified before that. OK, that’s an extreme example and I’m not saying your MM is like that! But there really are sharks out there, fishing for vulnerable women. Just don’t discount that possibility until you truly know him.

 

On the other hand, he may be genuine - it is possible. We can't tell just from your posts, but be aware that so many people here have been hurt by men who appeared originally to them as your MM does to you. Their words of caution may seem harsh, but it's only because they want to save you the horror of the pain they have endured.x

 

I can say for a fact the above that Jenkins stated is exactly what my h did .

He said sex was not the issue in fact he avoided it because the ow was handing it on a platter .he said he knew he could have it anytime with her if he blinked an eye And she was game even before he said hello .

 

I dont want to get in to details of it but My h was playing a different game .he is not proud of it today .

 

If the ow in our situation were to write here I am sure she would sing the same song as the op .

Genuine connection/similar interest /she really believes my h is the love of her life .she inked her self with his name .

 

I offered a clean divorce on dday ...we are in 6 years reconciliation.

 

Posters here are advising a woman whose moral compass is on mute .

Its like talking to a wall .if the op was undecided you can help her change the way she thinks .when decision is made no amount of coaxing /pleading is going to change her direction

This decision was made even before she met the mm .

she is not asking the right and wrong of thing ...she is hear to figure out how she can get him to be with her for ever .he is her dream guy .

 

 

I believe we are wasting our time as this titanic has already sailed .

[jenkins95]

 

Posters here are advising a woman whose moral compass is on mute .

Its like talking to a wall .if the op was undecided you can help her change the way she thinks .when decision is made no amount of coaxing /pleading is going to change her direction

This decision was made even before she met the mm .

she is not asking the right and wrong of thing ...she is hear to figure out how she can get him to be with her for ever .he is her dream guy .

 

 

I believe we are wasting our time as this titanic has already sailed .

 

It does indeed feel like much of the advice on this thread is falling on deaf ears. Regarding the MM, the OP seems smitten like a teenager. The issue of ending her marriage seems secondary to her infatuation with MM.

 

In reality, she shouldn't be having anything to do with MM until she has dealt with her marriage. She needs to do this in the right order.

 

But post after post, she comes back again to the amazing connection that exists between her and MM.

 

OP, you said you broached the subject of splitting with your H last night. How did it go? Was he upset? Angry? Or did he take it well? Try to deal with this relationship first - please!

Edited November 9, 2017 by jenkins95

[niteandfog]

He was pretty upset. He still seems upset today. But I told him I have to much with my own issues to have the burden of his stress, depression and anxiety.. He never wants to get any help for it, just dig deeper in the hole he's already in. I at least try to fix my own problems, he's the one who never let me fix them because if his fear of medication.

 

I gave him an ultimatum that I know he won't follow through. He even said he won't.

[wmacbride]

He was pretty upset. He still seems upset today. But I told him I have to much with my own issues to have the burden of his stress, depression and anxiety.. He never wants to get any help for it, just dig deeper in the hole he's already in. I at least try to fix my own problems, he's the one who never let me fix them because if his fear of medication.

 

I gave him an ultimatum that I know he won't follow through. He even said he won't.

 

I'm going to be honest, and I will tell you up front, you aren't going to like it.

 

The more I read what you write, the more it comes off as re-writing history. You paint your husband as being emotionally abusive, but you sound very similar to him in nature.

 

My guess? you are both ( completely unintentionally) abusing one another.

 

You say that he keeps you from taking your meds? No he doesn't. That's all on you. Sure, he may not like them ( understandably) but if you have time to go running, if you have to to chat up your om, your have time to get the meds. and take them.

 

You are heading down a bad road, and the ones who are going to be hurt the most are your husband and daughter, and his wife and child(ren). What did any of them do to you to deserve this type of treatment?

 

Really, right now, your best bet would be to sort out your marriage and either stay and put the work in to make it better or leave. I know you won't listen to that, but it's the truth. The last thing you need right now is to add another person to the mix.

 

If you need added incentive, picture your child and his children sitting in front of you. Imagine that your A has blown up, and your husband and his wife know.

 

Now picture yourself explaining to those kids how their pain and heartache is a fair price for to pay so you can shag this guy- because maybe without realizing it, that is exactly what you are doing. Tell them that it's okay for them to see mommy crying, daddy crying, mommy fall to the floor in shock, loose about 30 pounds because she can't eat. Explain to them how their mother being shaken to her core, never feeling like she can ever trust a man again, the possible PTSD, depression and even suicide is fine, because it allowed you to sleep with their daddy.

 

I expect you'll write all that off as me being over dramatic, but it's not. Look in the infidelity section to see exactly what it is you are helping to do to a woman and child(ren) who have done absolutely nothing to you. It won;t be an "accident", a "whoopsie" or something you didn't see comming. It will be something you will have planned and actually actively worked to make happen.

 

If this is how you ( as you put it ) "put yourself first" then madam, you really need to re-evaluate your stance. I doubt that's who you really are at heart. To me, you sound hurt, scared and angry. An affair will help with none of that.

[pheonixrisen]

He was pretty upset. He still seems upset today. But I told him I have to much with my own issues to have the burden of his stress, depression and anxiety.. He never wants to get any help for it, just dig deeper in the hole he's already in. I at least try to fix my own problems, he's the one who never let me fix them because if his fear of medication.

 

I gave him an ultimatum that I know he won't follow through. He even said he won't.

 

 

 

One thing that was very clear from you post ....your mind was made up and you are going to tell him after Christmas .

 

Why the ultimatum ? Why the game ?

 

If their are no financial matters on your side to take care off then today should be a good day for you to walk out...nobody is having a good Christmas in your home .

Edited November 12, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
rude ~T

[ladydesigner]

I'm sorry but there are plenty of other moms that share my views of not defining themselves as mothers. All her basic needs and beyond are met. So I really don't see what the problem is? Simply I won't plan my holiday around her for example. Or a Saturday unless she has any of the million extracurricular activities she attends.

 

I am not even sure how to respond to this being a mother myself. I plan all my holidays around my kids. I think this is just awful

[niteandfog]

The ultimátum is so he doesn't pin it down to having a breakdown /episode like he always does.

 

I've had episodes where I've begged him to take me to ER because I couldn't cope anymore and he's point blank refused.

 

Hell lock me in the house because he thinks I'll throw myself off a bridge (which I never will). Music calms me down but even if I'm having an episode hell turn it down because it's annoying..

[DKT3]

For those old enough to remember, reading this thread is like watching an episode of The Twilight zone.

 

Everything about this is unhealthy and highly dysfunctional.

 

The one thing that really jumps out is OP total unwillingness to accept responsibility for anything, not the choices she's made, not her affair not even her child.

 

OP, I hope both you and your husband get the help you need to give your child a fair shot at life.

[BaileyB]

I'm sorry but there are plenty of other moms that share my views of not defining themselves as mothers. All her basic needs and beyond are met. So I really don't see what the problem is? Simply I won't plan my holiday around her for example. Or a Saturday unless she has any of the million extracurricular activities she attends.

 

Totally agree. Join a running club and hire a sitter for a few hours a week so that you have some time to yourself, to pursue your interest.

 

DONT use the fact that you are "putting yourself first" because it makes you a better mother as an excuse to make selfish and irresponsible choices - ie. Don't use it to justify your extramarital affair.

 

Nobody here fell off the turnip truck today... We all see your attempt to justify and excuse your selfish, irresponsible, and very irresponsible decision to pursue this affair.

[stillafool]

I am not even sure how to respond to this being a mother myself. I plan all my holidays around my kids. I think this is just awful

 

Unfortunately for a lot of kids today their moms are caught up in acting more like a hormonal teenager than a mother.

[BaileyB]

The ultimátum is so he doesn't pin it down to having a breakdown /episode like he always does.

 

I've had episodes where I've begged him to take me to ER because I couldn't cope anymore and he's point blank refused.

 

Hell lock me in the house because he thinks I'll throw myself off a bridge (which I never will). Music calms me down but even if I'm having an episode hell turn it down because it's annoying..

 

So, what we have are two people struggling with mental health issues. Neither one of you are coping well. Put you together, and you have a very unhappy, unhealthy, dysfunctional marriage. You are both emotionally abusing each other.

 

You have romantisized this married man and you have romanticized this affair as something that will deliver you from your depression, your unhealthy marriage, and your unhappy life. That's not going to happen.

 

What you need isn't a an affair with a married man, but a good counsellor. Do this for your daughter.

[stillafool]

The ultimátum is so he doesn't pin it down to having a breakdown /episode like he always does.

 

I've had episodes where I've begged him to take me to ER because I couldn't cope anymore and he's point blank refused.

 

Hell lock me in the house because he thinks I'll throw myself off a bridge (which I never will). Music calms me down but even if I'm having an episode hell turn it down because it's annoying..

 

You can always call 911.

[stillafool]

 

You have romantisized this married man and you have romanticized this affair as something that will deliver you from your depression, your unhealthy marriage, and your unhappy life. That's not going to happen.

 

 

I'm wondering if this MM knows what he has gotten himself into.