All good men taken by their early 20s?

[Imajerk17]

Great post @Silverstring #121. And I notice something further.

 

The people on this thread saying 'All Good Ones Are Taken And All That's Left Is Slim Pickins' (including the woman in the other forum quoted by OP) tend not to sound at all happy w their dating lives. The people saying that even we single fossils ( ) can find someone great to date tend to sound much happier.

 

What's going on here? I do wonder if the latter group of happier people in the above paragraph are doing a better job drawing others to them for dating and relationships, with their positive proactive attitude. While the former group of Negative Naysayers end up turning people off. I mean, if someone doesn't want to commit to a Negative Naysayer who seems kind of bitter or down, does it really make that person a 'commitment-phobe'?

Edited April 21, 2017 by Imajerk17

[Mysterio]

When I go out on a date. I never talk about my past experiances to great detail. I feel l am single, because I want to be treated very well. I don't even think I can put up with being blase. I am the same way with family/friends/work.

 

All the woman has to do for me is to just be chill put on a good face and be pleasent. I am not a sex maniac or lets have kids right away. I am reasonable and normal if you will.

 

All I want to have is interesting conversations and laughs mixed with affection. Thats it in a not shell. Give each other space and spend time together.

 

My strength is talking.

 

More later.

[The_Thall_Man]

The people on this thread saying 'All Good Ones Are Taken And All That's Left Is Slim Pickins' (including the woman in the other forum quoted by OP) tend not to sound at all happy w their dating lives. The people saying that even we single fossils ( ) can find someone great to date tend to sound much happier.

 

Well, I personally don't find anecdotes very useful (they can often be dangerous to forming a perspective, actually), but we've got some pretty big givens:

 

- The populous isn't a static thing. If it was, the species would be in some serious trouble. Humans aren't a finite resource, just like all the "good trees" aren't gone after five Christmas' worth of harvesting.

 

- Most people in western society participate in serial monogamy for the most part. Heck, more people are single than ever, and more are waiting longer to tie the knot, have children, or both... and say what you want about the divorce rate, but numerically speaking, it's creating more options than less. To continue the tree analogy, most human "Christmas trees" go back to the farm, multiple times unlike the real ones.

 

- Small, rural areas aside, we're living in more-and-more populous urban centers (at least in the U.S.) and while not in a boom, there's still a growing population on top of the millions already there. So finally, it's a pretty big tree farm. Try walking around it a bit.

 

Personally, I don't think there's slim pickings at all. You'd have to be bad at math to think of that. I will agree that abundance is something you can fool yourself into, and you can eliminate the entire population of the country if you create too many logic gates, but if you're reasonable, there's likely plenty of options out there.

 

The problem I've observed, at least in my area, is a lack of willingness, or at least, enthusiasum about the idea of meeting new people. Simple as that. I have no useful social circle, so I'm using online dating at a metric (and social environments to some extent), and the interest in engaging new people is woefully lacking. I don't know why this is so tough for the average person around here, especially with the means afforded to individuals by the communication age. I'm an anomaly in that... while not being the most social or extroverted person ever: I love meeting new people. I like my friends, I've liked the relationships I've had, it's pretty much the only way to those outcomes. I suspect I might be looking in all the wrong places though. Take my last anecdotal paragraph with a huge grain of salt.

[Mysterio]

My thing with Social Media. With Txt and E-mail. I don't really feel like people are really close anymore. It feels like they can use Social Media to actually create a buffer zone.

 

Seems to me like the more certain people are into digital entertainment. The less they need people and the more its a chore to meet up and interact with them.

 

Thats what I see.

[whatnot]

My thing with Social Media. With Txt and E-mail. I don't really feel like people are really close anymore. It feels like they can use Social Media to actually create a buffer zone.

 

Seems to me like the more certain people are into digital entertainment. The less they need people and the more its a chore to meet up and interact with them.

 

Thats what I see.

This. Also....I'm a fossil. My parents were of "The Greatest Generation". Back then, teaming up was needed much more than now, just in order to physically survive. Many more rural areas back then, and not so much metropolitan. There were not near as many choices for partners either. (There were just fewer people) These things served as a motivator on both partners to make their marriages work. They needed each other. They needed to stay together. The concepts of raising a family together. It took two people. One to stay home and do that part of the labor. And one to go out and make some money to pay for food, clothing and shelter. Both people knew their role. And it took both roles.

 

 

Today....so much has changed. (and not in favor of the family). Everyone has their own careers. Makes their own money and there's a grocery store or Walmart close by everywhere one goes. With everyone being much more independent than they've ever been, that's come at a price. The price paid, is, if the toothpaste lid doesn't get put back on to a partner's liking now...why not just divorce? "I don't need this in my life. I have my own life. I can find a new partner." All of this is true. so people's need to MAKE it work, has diminished. People don't have the need in America anymore to MAKE it work, like was the case a couple of generations ago.

[Popsicle]

After watching the new tv show "First Dates", which is really cute, btw, I have a feeling that I won't find love until I'm in my 60's. The older couples who are close in age seem more mellow and more ready to be settled.

[OatsAndHall]

If you don't have significant relationship experience you'll be rejected automatically.

 

I wouldn't say "automatically" but I am wary of dating someone who doesn't have at least one long term relationship under their belt. I dated a few women via OLD that didn't have much relationship experience and some of those dates were pretty rough. I don't know why they hadn't had many long term relationships but I didn't enjoy my time with them. Most of it just came down to communication and not being somewhat socially aware.

 

One came across as very high-maintenance. She talked herself up the entire date and there wasn't much dialogue between the two of us. At first I thought that she was nervous and trying to impress me but she made a few arrogant statements about what she "expected from a relationship" (i.e. treat her like a princess). I opened the door at the coffee shop for her before and after the date and she made the comment that I had "passed the test". That was a serious turn-off for me.

 

Another didn't feel like a date; it felt like an interrogation or an interview. She asked me a ton of questions about myself (good) but many of them were very personal (very bad). She was a bit confrontational and it wasn't fun. She asked about family and I mentioned that I had an adopted sister that I didn't talk too much. That was a mistake... She wanted to know all about my estranged sister and apparently didn't like the answers I was giving...

 

My longest relationship since my divorce was with a woman who had limited dating experience but we did have a pretty good relationship. I had my faults in the relationship but she was immature when it came to communication and the dynamics of a relationship and it broke us in the end. We had very few arguments and, although neither of us got nasty, she would take them very personally as she wasn't experienced when it came to dealing with conflict in a relationship. She would really get upset when I a) I would refuse to discuss a situation via text and b) I would need some time to cool down when I was angry about an argument. It just wasn't good.

 

But, I do understand that there are women out there that have limited dating experience for a reason. Some have busy careers that have kept their focus on their jobs. Some got pregnant by by a jerk in their early twenties and have been raising a child.

 

So, it really is a black and white area.

[preraph]

Well, certainly the most desireable (not just talking about looks) men and women seem to mostly always coupled up. Not all men in their early 20s are ready to be "taken" yet though. A lot of them will make a better partner after they get all that out of their systems and feel more like settling down with someone.

[GravityMan]

All good men are taken

All childless people are self-centered

All divorced parents are broken

All never married people have issues

All single women over 35 are nutcases

All married couples are unhappy deep down

All SAHPs are lazy

All those who married young made a mistake

 

etc...

 

OP, as a general rule, beware of sentences starting with 'all' or its polite alternative, 'most'.

 

Yup, this. It's normal to generalize every once in awhile about something, but I tend to be wary of individuals who often use words like 'all', 'always', 'never', etc when talking about people and their lives. There's a good chance that such individuals are overly judgmental (and susceptible to stereotypes), closed-minded, patronizing, bitter, ignorant or even bigoted.

[hotpotato]

I noticed in my area when i was still in high school, many people were taken off the market and quickly. I live in a rural-ish area where a lot of my peers get married by 20.

 

I've had more like dating guys from other states.

 

Since i'm out of high school and college, it's getting harder and harder to met people except on OLD.

[jjgitties]

FWIW, here's my take on it. Its partly true. The same goes for women btw. The majority of the "good ones" (meaning marriage material) are pretty much taken in their early 20s. The reason for this is that a lot of people tend to hook up in their early 20s, then get married in their mid to late 20s, start having kids in 30s e.t.c. Its not the case for everyone but its the case in a lot of cases.

 

Its because its easier to hook up with people in your early 20s. You are younger, you go out more, you socialize more, you are less judgemental, you are less picky, you are more easy going for the most part. You don't care if the person has a job or career or car or house because you don't have those things yourself yet either at that age. As you get older you become much more picky and choosy. The standards get high. Must be a non smoker. Must have a job. Must be fit. Must be this. Must be that.

 

The people that didn't hook up with someone in their early 20s, it seems like to me, were the people that hooped around from relationship to relationship. They were always is some sort of toxic relationship. You will never know if they were the toxic ones or they just had a strong of bad luck. You will never know.

 

Either way, it does not mean there are no good people out there who are older. The divorced ones will definatly have "baggage" and other stuff. The ones that never married will have "issues". You need to accept that they are older people and are not 20 year old care free people. It is the way it is.

[Imported]

OP, that woman you seem to be considering basing your thoughts on has an opinion that is rationalized to make her feel better about her own situation. She is over 40, single and obviously coping.

 

I mean....'this is what's wrong with you and why you are damaged.'...........'this is why those same things that I am does not make me damaged.'

Edited May 9, 2017 by Imported

[ZA Dater]

If you think about this another way, is it not considered normal for most people to be married by early 30s?

 

 

My experience is when you step out of what is deemed to be normal or are not in the step society thinks you should be then you pretty much face an impossible task.

 

 

Simply put you simply need to be believe most people have good in them, if you don't the world becomes a horrid place.

 

 

Ultimately its a competition, you compete against others or you choose not to. I have never won over anyone I really wanted.

 

 

Simply put if you want it, you need to believe you can attain it and you need to see along the way you are getting closer to your goal.

[Vareg]

Any thoughts?

 

To find a good man you have to be a good woman and vice-versa

[Mysterio]

Here are my 20's to age 46. I was not doing well in school. So it took me 2 yrs to get my grade 12. I then went to University to get a degree in Sociology/worked Part Time. I then decreased school and started working more. The Retail business went bankrupt. 2 weeks later as I was looking ofr a new job and being on UI. My ex boss told me we were sponsered for education at some community collage. I was in the business program. I switched to the medical program. She dropped out after a month. Much to the dismay of he son who was my friend.

 

My 20's I was way more concered about getting my high school under my belt and maintaining some sort of education/working. Way more than getting a GF.

 

My late 20's. I landed a job at the Hospital that I work at now. I moved out at 32 and bought a condo. I am 20 minutes by bus from work.

 

My love life to me has been tough. My friendships have been easy. Its like the universe said I can only have one of the two. I know men that have just the GF and no major friendships and I feel that having a GF is sometimes over rated.

[Popsicle]

If you think about this another way, is it not considered normal for most people to be married by early 30s?

 

 

My experience is when you step out of what is deemed to be normal or are not in the step society thinks you should be then you pretty much face an impossible task.

 

 

Simply put you simply need to be believe most people have good in them, if you don't the world becomes a horrid place.

 

 

Ultimately its a competition, you compete against others or you choose not to. I have never won over anyone I really wanted.

 

 

Simply put if you want it, you need to believe you can attain it and you need to see along the way you are getting closer to your goal.

 

I love this.

[bebe23]

 

Its because its easier to hook up with people in your early 20s. You are younger, you go out more, you socialize more, you are less judgemental, you are less picky, you are more easy going for the most part. You don't care if the person has a job or career or car or house because you don't have those things yourself yet either at that age. As you get older you become much more picky and choosy. The standards get high. Must be a non smoker. Must have a job. Must be fit. Must be this. Must be that.

 

I think that is accurate. I'm one of those people who found my lifelong partner in my early 20's. Neither of us had a dime to our name, and we thought making 30K a year would be "well off." Neither of us had high expectations in our 20's.

 

But as you get older, life happens and you do have higher expectations. I was fine with marrying a guy who only made 30K a year (back in the 1990s) while I worked retail for $7 dollars an hour, but later realized security was something to be said for. (It took a long time but eventually we made enough to finally be considered middle class.)

 

On the other extreme, I don't think those career and money-focused women who are staying single while holding out for a millionaire can be considered happy at all.

[Gillys]

I didn't read through all of the previous post but I wouldn't consider any of my close male friends "marriage material" in their early 20s. I wouldn't want a guy who's greatest accomplishment is how long he can hold a keg stand

Many great men are career focused and want to get established before they start looking for a woman to share their life with. I'm almost 30 and have former high school friends how have been divorced twice already! I think there is something to be said about learning independence and taking your time to figure out what you want and need for your vision of a healthy relationship.

[hotpotato]

FWIW, here's my take on it. Its partly true. The same goes for women btw. The majority of the "good ones" (meaning marriage material) are pretty much taken in their early 20s. The reason for this is that a lot of people tend to hook up in their early 20s, then get married in their mid to late 20s, start having kids in 30s e.t.c. Its not the case for everyone but its the case in a lot of cases.

 

Its because its easier to hook up with people in your early 20s. You are younger, you go out more, you socialize more, you are less judgemental, you are less picky, you are more easy going for the most part. You don't care if the person has a job or career or car or house because you don't have those things yourself yet either at that age. As you get older you become much more picky and choosy. The standards get high. Must be a non smoker. Must have a job. Must be fit. Must be this. Must be that.

 

The people that didn't hook up with someone in their early 20s, it seems like to me, were the people that hooped around from relationship to relationship. They were always is some sort of toxic relationship. You will never know if they were the toxic ones or they just had a strong of bad luck. You will never know.

 

Either way, it does not mean there are no good people out there who are older. The divorced ones will definatly have "baggage" and other stuff. The ones that never married will have "issues". You need to accept that they are older people and are not 20 year old care free people. It is the way it is.

 

 

And when you do socialize as an older person, you'll go places, and everyone is taken. Last weekend, i went to a festival...Guess what? No single people. Everyone is there with the significant other and sometimes children.

 

When you get older, it can become almost second nature to pick someone apart

'You don't do this like this one person I dated."

'You do this and i hate that. Other person didn't do that!"

 

It can go on and on and on.

 

I had a teacher in school who said what you said. When she was younger, dating was simple. She married her husband because he made her laugh and a few other things. When you get older that list will expand.

 

I recently talked to a lady who is 34 and has been married for 12 years. She said loving as a young person was more free. One hasn't had a lot of bad experiences.

[hotpotato]

]I saw most of my friends getting married in their late 20s and early 30s' date=' and[/b'] most of them seemed pretty much entirely miserable anytime I saw them. A lot of bickering, a lot of embarrassing fights in public etc. It seemed like they were too young and too co-dependent on each other. They used to always tell me how lucky I was to be single.

 

Wow really? I have peers who are 30 and have been paired to the same person for 15 years. I know girls who are 30 with 3 kids and about to celebrate their 10th wedding anniversary. I guess it depends on where you live.

 

I had a former classmate ask me if i knew someone single. I said, "Nope, almost everyone i know was married at 18."

 

I noticed in high school the guys i was really interested already had girlfriends. i'd see them a few years later with the same girlfriend. *shrug*

 

My first thought is that if you are looking for a flawless man, you'll fail. People aren't flawless, and if you go in with that expectation in dating, you'll suffer a lot of disappointment. If you meet someone and date them and they don't have any issues, you probably don't know them very well yet.

 

My second thought, is that the majority of couples I know in their 40's, 50's who are successful didn't meet before or during the man's early 20's. Most relationships these days aren't high school/college lovers. So unless the basic premise of this idea, is that there is only a minuscule # of good men in the world, and they are the ones that are in the high school and college relationships that last long term, then it doesn't really hold water.

i couldn't say the same.

 

The problem is, that those divorced men carry a ton of baggage. I don't mean just the fact that they are divorced and have children. I mean the ex wives who are always going to have some level of jealousy towards you (often close to psychotic level actually), the emotional trauma and financial debt from the divorce, the children that are always going to instinctively dislike you because they will see you as an obstacle to their parents getting back together. Not to mention the various addictions they picked up to deal with emotional turmoil that comes from a marriage breakdown. Also, I never wanted kids of my own and now I am supposed to make all kinds of sacrifices for someone else's kids that secretly hate you anyway? No thanks. Those men were great catches in their 20s but not so much anymore.

 

For a woman like myself who has no debt, no ex husbands and low baggage, the prospect of paying for someone else's poor choices in life is not very appealing. Unless I am so in love that I am willing to walk through fire for them, I don't want to make those sacrifices. They only make my life worse so why should I? The other end of the coin are forever bachelors that are really players, live a frat boy lifestyle in their 40s and have no intention on settling down. I can't find men that match my level of baggage or even close and genuinely want a relationship. Seems like those men don't exist.

 

I truly think that 10 years from now, I will be one of those women that decided to just give up. I will say to people, in 2017 I finally had enough. I now haven't had a date in 10 years

 

Yes, these men have some SERIOUS baggage. The last time i dated, this guy had serious issues from his 2nd ex wife. I mean if i'd mention her, he'd almost shut off mentally. It was BAD! This is the issue with guys 40 and up. I'm 30 and haven't dated much, so my expectations of a relationship are relatively simple. He was 50 and had a list of expectations.

 

I'm 30 and ready to throw in this towel. Meeting people is starting to feel like a job. The last guy i met outside irl nearly sexually assaulted me. if i don't go online (which has it's own pitfalls) I can be single for years. Plus, i have to be in the mood to date.

 

 

i don't struggle with being alone. A lot of people esp some women with kids need that second income. I've been passed over for women who were after money. These women will do and say whatever it takes to get a man to move her in because being a girlfriend is her job. Me? I have hobbies, a new car, and a roof over my head. I go on vacations by myself. Im not in dire need of that second income.

 

I'm comfortable by myself plus it's hard to meet people equals me being single for a long time. I could have issues related to being single for so long. It's harder to get into the groove. When i'm single, im usually hardcore single with 0 prospects.

[Cookiesandough]

I have to agree with you, hot potato. Most of my friends/family got married in their mid late 20s to people they met in high school or college and they all seem like they couldn't be happier. I live in the Midwest. I'm in my mid-late 20s and it's very rare I find single guys my age.

 

I also agree we tend to pick things apart as we age. There's really no love like 'young' love. My ideal would have been to meet my guy in college, but I missed that boat.

 

Sorry to hear about your experience.

[Popsicle]

I have to agree with you, hot potato. Most of my friends/family got married in their mid late 20s to people they met in high school or college and they all seem like they couldn't be happier. I live in the Midwest. I'm in my mid-late 20s and it's very rare I find single guys my age.

 

I also agree we tend to pick things apart as we age. There's really no love like 'young' love. My ideal would have been to meet my guy in college, but I missed that boat.

 

Sorry to hear about your experience.

 

 

Cookie, my heart hurts for you. Please do not give up hope.

You are still young so I have hope for you to find exactly what you want.

If you were 10+ years older then I would have less hope for you but you are still young.

 

I think you have mentioned living in NYC before. What was dating like there?

[Gr8fuln2020]

And when you do socialize as an older person, you'll go places, and everyone is taken. Last weekend, i went to a festival...Guess what? No single people. Everyone is there with the significant other and sometimes children.

 

When you get older, it can become almost second nature to pick someone apart

'You don't do this like this one person I dated."

'You do this and i hate that. Other person didn't do that!"

 

It can go on and on and on.

 

I had a teacher in school who said what you said. When she was younger, dating was simple. She married her husband because he made her laugh and a few other things. When you get older that list will expand.

 

I recently talked to a lady who is 34 and has been married for 12 years. She said loving as a young person was more free. One hasn't had a lot of bad experiences.

 

I could say the same thing about women. That there are so few good ones out there, but I won't b/c I have only met one terrible woman during my dating days. My ex wasn't 'terrible', but she made some mistakes and decisions that I could not overlook. Any decent guy that finds her would be in good shape as she has learned from our break-up. Many men would find her a catch. Will I find another woman like her w/o the baggage she had...yes. I've met them in the pas and feel confident I will soon enough. But many ladies have also been through a lot and yet to recover for whatever reason.

 

hotpotato, I like what that lady said. When younger, and if I may paraphrase, things were simpler and the idea of creating a future together was easier. Most people who are divorced and dating again are likely mostly in their 40s, right? We're probably talking about people who have been in 10-20 year marriages and have a lot go on. New to dating, children to support after divorce, an ex to deal with while trying to move on and date, financial circumstances created while married and still need to deal with, bitterness from divorces proceedings...and so on.

 

I believe, men, especially, are at the point where having a LTR is not under their radar in the near term. They just go out of a LTR that ended miserably, why would they want to rush into something LTR and monogamous? With all the responsibilities that resume with their previous relationship, it is very difficult for many men to consider having to take care of another child or lady whose own finances or social life only adds to his own misery. I can see why so many men are not knocking down the door for the next LTR, monogamous relationship.

 

But, there are those of us who are single parents, no exes, finances in order and living life to the best of our ability who are ready and seeking other women who will complement, not complicate. Men like me seem to be in the minority as I do not have to deal with any of the aforementioned issues. Do I have baggage? Depends on what you mean.

 

As for the festivals, do single people actually go to these things in droves? These types of activities, I believe, are typically frequented by families and couples, not single people looking for other single people.

[Cookiesandough]

Cookie, my heart hurts for you. Please do not give up hope.

You are still young so I have hope for you to find exactly what you want.

If you were 10+ years older then I would have less hope for you but you are still young.

 

I think you have mentioned living in NYC before. What was dating like there?

 

 

Thanks, pops. I hope so, but wish I was more optimistic. I've never lived there. I just visited a couple times for a job interview and a vacation. I really like it there, though!

[thefooloftheyear]

I don't want to sound unsympathetic, but if the divorce stats prove anything at least half(probably more like 75%) are married early and done...

 

Young love is nothing great....Its impulsive, ill advised, overly idealistic, etc..And its usually disastrous...

 

Now that I have reached "middle aged"., the amount of truly happy people I know that married their HS/College sweetheart is so rare ....Needle in a haystack type of rare......

 

Sure...people obtain baggage along the way.,...But to proclaim they are just going to saddle someone else with it is kinda ridiculous...Some maybe ...But certainly not all..Not even close...

 

I can't walk in your shoes, so I can't say any of what some of the ladies posted is invalid....Its real.,,,,No doubt...

 

Maybe its wrong of me to say this, but if you are using OLD as a barometer, then I think you might get a false idea of the real landscape ...I say this because I know nothing of OLD, but all of the "good" guys I know that may be on their second go don't need OLD...All of them I know met women in their circle of family/friends, and some were just chance meetings in their real life...Point is I don't think desirable men necessarily need it..As soon as they made it known they were available, there were women all over the place...

 

I don't know if I have any particular advice, only that maybe change your approach...Perhaps if you see something you want, go after it...because that's what the competition is doing...

 

I wish you all well..

 

TFY