All good men taken by their early 20s?

[JuneL]

I am not sure that we EVER truly stop learning (being educated)

at least I hope not

 

I gathered from what he wrote that he meant formal education.

[NTV]

I'll be honest. I haven't ever met anyone of your age group to ever consider the convoluted mess that you mentioned in your first post. I expect better. ... more realistic.

 

Idk. It confounded me.

[ZA Dater]

I read something on another message board that was kind of sad to me. I would copy and paste it but it's like a debate they were having. Some woman was saying all good, intelligent, relationship worthy men are taken by their early 20s. She said if they're not taken by 20s they have some flaw..they work too much or have emotional issues, or commitment phobias, or are just generally not "relationship material". She said stay far away from guys who have never been in a serious rship by then.

 

She that the good guys that do get in long term relationships/married by then get divorced or breakup, and therefore back on the market are "seriously damaged" by what the girls they dated put them through. Because of this many have a very jaded view of women and become bitter in some way. She said women are more likely to bounce back afterwards and stay positive but good men usually won't leave until things are very bad and it messes up their view of women. She said avoid men over 40 (she's 40 something), not just the "spinsirs", but all because have too much "baggage" even if they were good guys. "There are no datable ones."

 

I don't want to believe this is true. I'm out of my early 20s and I don't see myself meeting a guy I like anytime soon. But when I look aroUnd, I do see that most of my family who have happy marriages got lucky with the right person married mid late 20s. Within my circle of family and friends, most are dating or married dating their college, high school sweethearts now. These are people coming from traditional 2 parent traditional households with no divorce and like very white picket fence upper middle class.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

I think there is a large degree of truth to this. However, there is also a large degree of truth that MANY people marry too early in life which fosters a higher divorce rate.

 

 

I believe people who have no relationship experience aren't seen as being attractive in any form whatsoever. As for being damaged I would agree with that to a certain extent but not to the extent to avoid them completely.

 

 

In all probability the guy who hasn't dates has more baggage that one who has because people ask themselves why.

 

 

The reality everything is subjective.

[NuevoYorko]

I'm a good man. When I was in my early 20's the last words anyone would have used to describe me were "relationship minded." Every one of my friends were the same. A few people I knew in high school who married in their early 20's are divorced.

 

I just don't know where you are coming from with this. Seems very farfetched.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Huh? What? I thought you just got out of a relationship not long ago?

 

 

But hearing you, I do think that maybe it's time for you to take breather or a break from dating.

 

 

Maybe if you decide to come back to dating later, you can just focus on men who are never married/no kids.

 

I recently got out of a relationship with a divorcing man (3 years post separation) who was a hot mess. That relationship was short (only 6 months) so it barely counts. I have been single most of my 30s.

 

It's easy to find dates if I use OLD sites or go to meet-ups. Quantity is there, quality is lacking. But if I stop those dating oriented activities, I could easily go years without a date. I don't meet any single men close to my age in every day life. "Giving up" means not doing OLD or going to sleazy meet-ups.

[Phoenician]

I am a Man in My forties ;

I am not bragging but I am a good man ,

 

the "All good men taken by their early 20s?" could be a right assumption BUT who told you they won't change when reaching their thirties or forties ?

 

99% of them change and stop being really that good .

 

I am one of them now .

 

 

I do see that you are looking for a good hearted man , for a serious relationship .

 

being closer to finish my Midlle age crisis , IMHO getting involved with a divorced partner with no heavy luggage is a great strategy .

 

Divorced normal men , appreciate woman more because they were hurt before , a good one will see the real venus in you and treat you like a queen - if he is a gentleman .

 

A divorced Man who is independant ; will see another marriage as a new life opportunity , not a phobia .

[Eternal Sunshine]

Huh? What? I thought you just got out of a relationship not long ago?

 

But hearing you, I do think that maybe it's time for you to take breather or a break from dating.

 

 

Maybe if you decide to come back to dating later, you can just focus on men who are never married/no kids.

 

 

Sorry, I see what you are getting at. I didn't mean I haven't had a date in 10 years, I meant 10 years from now (so in 2027) I will say haven't had a date in 10 years (if I stop actively searching for dates this year).

[Popsicle]

Sorry, I see what you are getting at. I didn't mean I haven't had a date in 10 years, I meant 10 years from now (so in 2027) I will say haven't had a date in 10 years (if I stop actively searching for dates this year).

 

Oh. :|

 

I say just keep getting out and being active and social but just don't think about it or expect it.

[Spring23]

But there are plenty of educated professional women in that age range.

 

I thought people are done with their education in their 20s (even getting a Ph.D.). By neglecting their education, do you mean they didn't go to college when younger?

 

I'm in my 40's and all my single and married girlfriends have not only finished college but have higher degrees.

 

Everyone I know struggles with money issues.

[Popsicle]

I think there is a large degree of truth to this. However, there is also a large degree of truth that MANY people marry too early in life which fosters a higher divorce rate.

 

 

I believe people who have no relationship experience aren't seen as being attractive in any form whatsoever. As for being damaged I would agree with that to a certain extent but not to the extent to avoid them completely.

 

 

In all probability the guy who hasn't dates has more baggage that one who has because people ask themselves why.

 

 

The reality everything is subjective.

So true. On this forum, People will find something wrong with EVERY group of people. So just pay it no mind really.

[Spring23]

I recently got out of a relationship with a divorcing man (3 years post separation) who was a hot mess. That relationship was short (only 6 months) so it barely counts. I have been single most of my 30s.

 

It's easy to find dates if I use OLD sites or go to meet-ups. Quantity is there, quality is lacking. But if I stop those dating oriented activities, I could easily go years without a date. I don't meet any single men close to my age in every day life. "Giving up" means not doing OLD or going to sleazy meet-ups.

 

You sound tired of the dating scene. It seems you've had several years of being single and then the one long term guy wasn't the one. You've spent time meeting men that don't interest you and feel you've wasted years.

 

That's your signal it's time for a change.

 

Don't go on OLD or meet ups for a while (maybe a month or two) and only do things in your spare time that you truly enjoy. This will give you your spirit back.

Edited April 21, 2017 by Spring23

[Mysterio]

To be honest. I think a vast majority, are going to have come to the realization that we are going to go through the love journey, with many different people, before we go to heaven.

 

I look at one of my women friends who is 66 and she is on guy # 5. That is from her son's bio father to the latest guy.

 

My mother on the other hand. Just my dad 48 yrs later. I think for me at age 46. I may be one of those people that will go through a bunch of women before I settle down with one. I hope I can find a stable relationship. As of now. I let the universe decide how that will manifest.

[Spring23]

I think for me at age 46. I may be one of those people that will go through a bunch of women before I settle down with one. I hope I can find a stable relationship. As of now. I let the universe decide how that will manifest.

 

That might be a good idea.

 

Maybe dating lots of women is what you really want anyway?

[JuneL]

I'm in my 40's and all my single and married girlfriends have not only finished college but have higher degrees.

 

Everyone I know struggles with money issues.

 

By struggles, did you mean getting into serious debt and living paycheck to paycheck? Or did you mean they pretty much have a sound financial status, but wanted to be able to afford a better lifestyle? I thought the previous poster was talking about someone who was not financially independent and who would cause him financial burden if he was with such a woman.

[Spring23]

By struggles, did you mean getting into serious debt and living paycheck to paycheck? Or did you mean they pretty much have a sound financial status, but wanted to be able to afford a better lifestyle? I thought the previous poster was talking about someone who was not financially independent and who would cause him financial burden if he was with such a woman.

 

I mean living paycheck to paycheck (which is what we do.) Myself and all my friends have gotten into credit card debit and student loan debit and have paid the price (literally.)

 

Sometimes we bought stuff we didn't need or did things we couldn't afford just like the rest of Western civilization. Sometimes too much money isn't a good thing anyway.

[JuneL]

I mean living paycheck to paycheck (which is what we do.) Myself and all my friends have gotten into credit card debit and student loan debit and have paid the price (literally.)

 

Sometimes we bought stuff we didn't need or did things we couldn't afford just like the rest of Western civilization. Sometimes too much money isn't a good thing anyway.

 

The situation you described seems to be a combination of the two I asked. At least these friends you described should be able to "scrape up enough money to pay rent and fix the car" (ref: simpleNfit), and they have good credit scores, right?

[JuneL]

I recently got out of a relationship with a divorcing man (3 years post separation) who was a hot mess. That relationship was short (only 6 months) so it barely counts. I have been single most of my 30s.

 

It's easy to find dates if I use OLD sites or go to meet-ups. Quantity is there, quality is lacking. But if I stop those dating oriented activities, I could easily go years without a date. I don't meet any single men close to my age in every day life. "Giving up" means not doing OLD or going to sleazy meet-ups.

 

I think you just made the mistake of giving that guy who was a hot mess another chance after learning he was separated but not divorced. I can see how incredibly stressful that short relationship must have been, by just reading your posts about him. Btw, did you do a background check to get his marital status?

[Spring23]

The situation you described seems to be a combination of the two I asked. At least these friends you described should be able to "scrape up enough money to pay rent and fix the car" (ref: simpleNfit), and they have good credit scores, right?

 

I have no idea about their credit scores but they live a middle class life.

[OatsAndHall]

The problem is, that those divorced men carry a ton of baggage. I don't mean just the fact that they are divorced and have children. I mean the ex wives who are always going to have some level of jealousy towards you (often close to psychotic level actually), the emotional trauma and financial debt from the divorce, the children that are always going to instinctively dislike you because they will see you as an obstacle to their parents getting back together. Not to mention the various addictions they picked up to deal with emotional turmoil that comes from a marriage breakdown. Also, I never wanted kids of my own and now I am supposed to make all kinds of sacrifices for someone else's kids that secretly hate you anyway? No thanks. Those men were great catches in their 20s but not so much anymore.

 

For a woman like myself who has no debt, no ex husbands and low baggage, the prospect of paying for someone else's poor choices in life is not very appealing. Unless I am so in love that I am willing to walk through fire for them, I don't want to make those sacrifices. They only make my life worse so why should I? The other end of the coin are forever bachelors that are really players, live a frat boy lifestyle in their 40s and have no intention on settling down. I can't find men that match my level of baggage or even close and genuinely want a relationship. Seems like those men don't exist.

 

I truly think that 10 years from now, I will be one of those women that decided to just give up. I will say to people, in 2017 I finally had enough. I now haven't had a date in 10 years

 

I'll play Benedict to your Beatrice for the moment.

 

You described an absolute worst case scenario; basically an emotionally devastated, divorced man who is raising kids, has a lunatic ex and is drowning in debt. And, you're saying that you would be expected to pull him out of that debt and help him deal with that baggage. All of that is on the FAR side of the spectrum and a huge generalization because a huge proportion of single men in their 30s and 40s are divorced.

 

Now, I have my issues that I am working through from my divorce but I recognize them and they don't spill over into my relationships. That is going to be true of most divorcees as the split isn't a pleasant, easy process. Especially if infidelity was involved. My poor choice was getting involved with my ex wife in their first place but I didn't do so lightly and certainly didn't expect to be screwed around on. I have honestly had better interactions with divorcees than women who haven't been married simply because they have had their bumps and bruises and moved on from them. My divorce taught me EXACTLY what I want out of a relationship.

 

Yeah, I have debt but it's something that I can't resolve on my own and certainly don't need anyone's help with it. I don't expect anyone to pay my bills. I have my affairs in order and I'll be debt free (outside of student loans) within a year. Also, your average American, divorced or not, carries around $10k in credit card debt alone.

 

You don't want kids so there's no need to even consider a divorcee with children.

 

You use grandiose statements like "walk through fire" and "pay for someone else's poor choices" because you have a seriously misguided notion as to what the psyche and bank account of divorcee looks like.

[CptInsano]

I would agree that divorced men don't necessarily carry a lot of baggage. Actually, most of those in my circle of friends remarried relatively quickly. They also didn't drown in debt, nor did they have prolonged fights with their exes. They also had career-minded women as their ex wifes, with averted a lot of the financial pitfalls.

 

Quite frankly, theses men were off the market within 1-3 years after the divorce.

 

But I also agree that at a certain age you know who you are and what you want. My last relationship ended in 2015, and I met a number of attractive women since then, but just nobody I wanted to get serious with. Part of the problem is also that I'm rather content with the life I lead, so there is very little pressure.

[Silverstring]

I do think the theme of the woman in the OP, and reflected by a few people in this thread, and a general trend for LoveShack in particular, is the people that struggle with dating consistently love to blame external circumstances, and really don't want to take responsibility for it.

 

When a relationship fails or you have problems with dating, instead of blaming the other person (or the entire other gender, or all of society, or all people on OLD, or all people that are divorced, or everybody over a certain age, or everybody under a certain age etc.), look in the mirror. What flags did I ignore? Am I drawn to non-relationship type people? Am I a good partner? etc. etc.

 

When people take responsibility for their own actions and choices, that is when changes can get made.

[ZA Dater]

I do think the theme of the woman in the OP, and reflected by a few people in this thread, and a general trend for LoveShack in particular, is the people that struggle with dating consistently love to blame external circumstances, and really don't want to take responsibility for it.

 

When a relationship fails or you have problems with dating, instead of blaming the other person (or the entire other gender, or all of society, or all people on OLD, or all people that are divorced, or everybody over a certain age, or everybody under a certain age etc.), look in the mirror. What flags did I ignore? Am I drawn to non-relationship type people? Am I a good partner? etc. etc.

 

When people take responsibility for their own actions and choices, that is when changes can get made.

 

 

I don't think its so much a blame game as it is an observation which can be true depending on your own environment. To an extent people can ask themselves that question and you are correct in what you say but I also think some people are perhaps less suited to dating than others, by this I mean fundamentally so.

 

 

You can be a great person, a caring kind person but if you are shy your chances of dating are pretty much zero, that a fundamental problem which can be overcome but you are never going to be the extrovert and life of a party, you need to accept certain limitations.

 

 

I wish many things but one of the recurring ones is that people who battle with dating find some inner peace, its not a happy nice place to be, people never understand how you feel and part of that you do tend to come to conclusions like the OP has.

 

 

For me I agree because many desirable people are snapped up quickly and by the same token its equally hard to never be able to get what you want, to want what you cant have and no want what you can have. A lot of the time what we don't have seems perfectly imperfect to us, instead of saying all good desirable people are taken it would probably be better to say that "ok I have had some good experiences, lets hold onto those and maybe I will have another one".

 

 

A lot of how you feel is governed by how you think. People laugh at me for being single and I used to feel terrible and like the OP just write off all the good people are taken but then I think about the people I have met, some exceptional people and I don't feel so bad anymore.

 

 

At the end of the day, I'd rather have exceptional for one breakfast than average for a lifetime.

[OatsAndHall]

I'll go into this a bit further and give folks a glimpse of what dating looks like from a divorcee's eyes. Well, at least MY eyes.

 

I am more at ease dating women who have been divorced because I know that they have been through many of the same things I have. They have taken their lumps in life and most of them have learned from it. And, you can pick out those that haven't in a hurry; unaddressed emotional and financial issues stemming from a divorce come pop up fast.

 

With that being said, the divorced women I have dated are a lot like me; they know what they want from a relationship, they have their financial affairs in order, (one of the many things that leads to divorce is poor money management and their learned from that), and they're generally good at communicating their feelings in an adult manner. Being able the communicate effectively generally comes from spending time in therapy in order to deal with their divorce and other issues. This shows maturity as well; they didn't try to handle their divorce by looking for answers at the bottom of a bottle.

 

Now, being a divorcee, think about what it's like to come across a man/woman in their late twenties or thirties who hasn't had many serious relationships. My first instinct is to say "THEY'RE SINGLE FOR A REASON!!" the same way people say divorcees "ARE DIVORCED FOR A REASON!!!". But, that's an unfair assumption to make. There are many reasons why someone hasn't had a serious relationship in their life time. And, there are many reasons why someone has been divorced.

[JuneJulySeptember]

I'll go into this a bit further and give folks a glimpse of what dating looks like from a divorcee's eyes. Well, at least MY eyes.

 

I am more at ease dating women who have been divorced because I know that they have been through many of the same things I have. They have taken their lumps in life and most of them have learned from it. And, you can pick out those that haven't in a hurry; unaddressed emotional and financial issues stemming from a divorce come pop up fast.

 

With that being said, the divorced women I have dated are a lot like me; they know what they want from a relationship, they have their financial affairs in order, (one of the many things that leads to divorce is poor money management and their learned from that), and they're generally good at communicating their feelings in an adult manner. Being able the communicate effectively generally comes from spending time in therapy in order to deal with their divorce and other issues. This shows maturity as well; they didn't try to handle their divorce by looking for answers at the bottom of a bottle.

 

Now, being a divorcee, think about what it's like to come across a man/woman in their late twenties or thirties who hasn't had many serious relationships. My first instinct is to say "THEY'RE SINGLE FOR A REASON!!" the same way people say divorcees "ARE DIVORCED FOR A REASON!!!". But, that's an unfair assumption to make. There are many reasons why someone hasn't had a serious relationship in their life time. And, there are many reasons why someone has been divorced.

 

I actually think 40 or later is the ideal age to meet somebody.

 

I've matured so much in the past 2 decades. I think about some of the stuff I used to do and say in my 20s and I shudder. I also have a much different perspective on life and what's important. I'm just really a different person.

 

Of course, that's not amenable to raising a family. So, people get hitched much earlier...

Edited April 21, 2017 by JuneJulySeptember

[OatsAndHall]

I actually think 40 or later is the ideal age to meet somebody.

 

I've matured so much in the past 2 decades. I think about some of the stuff I used to do and say in my 20s and I shudder. I also have a much different perspective on life and what's important. I'm just really a different person.

 

Of course, that's not amenable to raising a family. So, people get hitched much earlier...

 

I agree. I have had more enjoyable dates with older women over the years. The woman I am seeing right now is 40 (I'm 36) and I enjoy it much more. There are simple things that make it more relaxed. We actually have phone conversations at night, instead of texting back and forth which I like. Most of the younger women I dated HATED talking on the phone.