I want the impossible

[Noirek]

OP, do you think you may have a personality difference that seperates you from other people and makes it difficult for you to be empathatic? Like you can only see things from a selfish POV as in how it affects you? Perhaps because of her intellect that you believe separates you from others more often than not?

[ShatteredLady]

Did you tell your wife that you love the OW? That you told her that you loved her? Used the '3 little words'?

 

I don't think you said how your OW reacted to your declaration of love? I'm just wondering if you're feeling better now because you 'know' how the OW feels about you....that she's STILL hung-up on you...that it soothes your ego to be sure you 'could of had her' if you wanted...that you could still have her if you chose?

 

You leave the door open in most of your language. I'm not convinced that your story with the OW has ended. That's your choice...

[LargoLagg]

Did you tell your wife that you love the OW? That you told her that you loved her? Used the '3 little words'?

 

I don't think you said how your OW reacted to your declaration of love? I'm just wondering if you're feeling better now because you 'know' how the OW feels about you....that she's STILL hung-up on you...that it soothes your ego to be sure you 'could of had her' if you wanted...that you could still have her if you chose?

 

You leave the door open in most of your language. I'm not convinced that your story with the OW has ended. That's your choice...

I was headed in that direction in that conversation with my wife, but she closed off that line of conversation, don't you think? Given what she said and the way she said it, I don't think it would help either of us.

 

The OW said that she loved me too, and that these feelings that had developed were weighing on her conscience. Essentially, she feels the way that I do, that whatever we might do to be together is not the right thing to do. The crazy thing is that I'd think less of her if she was willing to pursue this with me, and honestly, I think she feels the same way about me. I think she likes that I take my marriage seriously enough that I'm willing to put my feelings aside. I know she was glad to have the conversation, because otherwise, seeing each other would feel awkward and uncertain. If nothing else, we have some certainty now. The thing I'm thinking about now is how to manage our personal interaction. I realize it can't be like it has been, but I'm not real good at pretending either.

 

I do feel better that she's not angry or resentful, to be 100% honest. It's not because this means I still have an option, or that my ego is somehow stroked by this. It's because I didn't want her to dislike me or to resent me. I'll give you an example - way back when, I fell in love with this girl in HS. I went to college, and she found some new guy and she dumped me. The second girl I fell in love with wanted to get married. When I said no, she banged some guy at work and then made sure I found out about it the same day.

 

In both cases, the most hurtful thing was not the other guy. It wasn't even the rejection, not exactly. They were symptoms of the real problem for me - that they didn't love me any more. Because people don't choose who they love, I don't really view it as rejection, but I do view it as a significant loss. Is that some fear of abandonment? Maybe, but even if so, that's what bothers me, and I didn't really realize that it is what bothered me before I saw OW again. When I felt her warmth towards me, that's when it hit me exactly what I'd been suffering. The fact that her feelings had not changed soothed me, and assuaged my fears. I didn't want to be meaningless to her, at least not right away.

 

I realize that our feelings won't last forever, not for either of us. Stated objectively, she's a catch. I have to assume that at some point, she's going to meet somebody that does it for her, and hopefully, I'll be truly happy for her when that day arrives. But right now, knowing that I have her affections is enough for me. I do miss her, but I don't pine for her. I won't ask her for more, because given how I feel about her, she's already given me the greatest gift she can give. It's this peace that I feel that makes me believe that I'm on the downhill slope of this thing, that I've accepted reality.

 

I don't know if that makes any sense to you at all, but that's exactly how I feel about the whole thing right now. I'm a work in progress.

[LargoLagg]

Which makes me keep wondering ehy you're in Infidelity forum rather than OW/OM forum. And if you're really here for commiseration or advice about that, then why you don't just ignore what's unrelated and interact only with posters who share the experience or empathize with you. But you do the opposite; you politely respond to every single post.

 

Why? I thought you weere here for understanding and mee

 

And then I read this: and this kind of turns my stomach because I realize it wasnt about commiseration. You want a pat on the back for doing the right thing.

I've been cautioned to refrain from commenting on forum moderation to explain why I'm in this forum.

 

On the one hand, you're right. I'm not here for lectures on the evils of infidelity from BS who have suffered far worse from their WS than what I've done but cannot seem to see the difference. I'm not sure that I need a pat on the back, but I certainly don't need to be kicked around. I didn't come here to seek advice either. I was clear on what I was going to do before I ever got here. I started out simply wanting a place to vent my feelings, and clearly, this is not my ideal audience. But having been relocated here, what can I do?

 

So, if your stomach gets queasy, change the channel. I don't mind.

[LargoLagg]

OP, do you think you may have a personality difference that seperates you from other people and makes it difficult for you to be empathatic? Like you can only see things from a selfish POV as in how it affects you? Perhaps because of her intellect that you believe separates you from others more often than not?

Oh yeah. I'm a regular Sheldon Cooper in real life.

 

Maybe you're right. However, I will observe that I don't seem to read a lot of empathy here either. I think the real trouble, as I said in the previous post, is that you're not my ideal target audience. Similarly, I'm not your favorite poster either. We're not a good match for what the other wants to accomplish.

 

I think you like guys like this better:

 

Am I a bad husband?

 

I will say this. The things that you all have touched on, or beaten me over the head with, have not gone unnoticed. I really was not ready for a lot of that, but I haven't forgotten either, and it all, whether I agree with it or not, has influenced my thinking. So it hasn't been a completely useless exercise for either of us.

Edited November 25, 2016 by LargoLagg

[gia37]

Im sorry about your situation, Im in a similar one, but Im the OW. Can I ask what are your age groups more or less (you, your wife and her) if you dont mind?

[waterwoman]

Hi Largo

 

I venture onto your thread cautiously as I annoyed you so much last time but I am posting again respectfully to offer what I hope is a helpful suggestion

 

In your last post:

 

"They were symptoms of the real problem for me - that they didn't love me any more. Because people don't choose who they love, I don't really view it as rejection, but I do view it as a significant loss. "

 

This may well apply to your wife's feelings right now. You love another woman. I suspect she believes that means you don't feel the same about her. You can't disregard how hurt she probably is or take her words merely at face value. Please don't rely on the fact that she isn't screaming or throwing things to prove that all is hunkydory. I fear you don't have the luxury of worrying about the OW's feelings or your own while disregarding your wife.

[aileD]

You sound a little bit like my husband. He is very introspective like you and way too open with people as well (which some. Like you, see as a positive as it helps in life and work to connect with people).

 

He let his connection get too far with another girl (I say girl because she was 19-20 when they met). He had all those same feelings too. The newness of something, the connection. And he ultimately had the same feelings you do about not leaving his marriage and recognizing the limerence stage of his relationship with OW wasn't worth leaving marriage and family and 24 years history.

 

But not before he cheated and hurt me and the kids immensely. And I will be 100% honest. The "feelings" and the words he said to her and the words he said to me about how he felt about her hurt a million times more than any sex they were having.

 

So while I do think that your approach is one of honesty and learning and I think it's good you were open with your wife.....I would caution you. Your wife was smart to cut off your "I love her" line of discussion....because it is way to hurtful to your wife even though she's being cool about things and likes your honesty and it opened up good discussions.

 

Hearing that your husband loves someone else, and would pursue them if he wasn't married, and that he's thinking of her and all that other stuff....

 

Whether she says it to you or not--IT FCKING HURTS TO THE CORE.

 

And I hope that you have told her through all this all the amazing things about HER (your wife) that make you not want to jeopardize your marriage. Because even if she doesn't seem it, she is probably feeling a little rejected by your strong emotion toward this other woman.

 

And think back what you said about yourself and rejection and how you felt.

 

I know this is a lot of introspection of yourself and your feelings and your actions and YOU YOU YOU.

 

Just try to see from wife's heart too

[Noirek]

Oh yeah. I'm a regular Sheldon Cooper in real life.

 

Maybe you're right. However, I will observe that I don't seem to read a lot of empathy here either. I think the real trouble, as I said in the previous post, is that you're not my ideal target audience. Similarly, I'm not your favorite poster either. We're not a good match for what the other wants to accomplish.

 

I think you like guys like this better:

 

Am I a bad husband?

 

I will say this. The things that you all have touched on, or beaten me over the head with, have not gone unnoticed. I really was not ready for a lot of that, but I haven't forgotten either, and it all, whether I agree with it or not, has influenced my thinking. So it hasn't been a completely useless exercise for either of us.

 

I don't mean with us. We are just posters on a board. And as this is our thread, it is us that could be accused of lacking empathy for you not vice versa. I mean in real life. In your every day interaction.

[LargoLagg]

Im sorry about your situation, Im in a similar one, but Im the OW. Can I ask what are your age groups more or less (you, your wife and her) if you dont mind?

Not at all - mid 50's, married 25 years. Not sure how that helps, but I hope it does.

[LargoLagg]

Hi Largo

 

I venture onto your thread cautiously as I annoyed you so much last time but I am posting again respectfully to offer what I hope is a helpful suggestion

 

In your last post:

 

"They were symptoms of the real problem for me - that they didn't love me any more. Because people don't choose who they love, I don't really view it as rejection, but I do view it as a significant loss. "

 

This may well apply to your wife's feelings right now. You love another woman. I suspect she believes that means you don't feel the same about her. You can't disregard how hurt she probably is or take her words merely at face value. Please don't rely on the fact that she isn't screaming or throwing things to prove that all is hunkydory. I fear you don't have the luxury of worrying about the OW's feelings or your own while disregarding your wife.

Thanks, good point. I'm trying to be a little kinder, a little more thoughtful, all that stuff, and she's noticed, she likes it.

[LargoLagg]

You sound a little bit like my husband. He is very introspective like you and way too open with people as well (which some. Like you, see as a positive as it helps in life and work to connect with people).

 

He let his connection get too far with another girl (I say girl because she was 19-20 when they met). He had all those same feelings too. The newness of something, the connection. And he ultimately had the same feelings you do about not leaving his marriage and recognizing the limerence stage of his relationship with OW wasn't worth leaving marriage and family and 24 years history.

 

But not before he cheated and hurt me and the kids immensely. And I will be 100% honest. The "feelings" and the words he said to her and the words he said to me about how he felt about her hurt a million times more than any sex they were having.

 

So while I do think that your approach is one of honesty and learning and I think it's good you were open with your wife.....I would caution you. Your wife was smart to cut off your "I love her" line of discussion....because it is way to hurtful to your wife even though she's being cool about things and likes your honesty and it opened up good discussions.

 

Hearing that your husband loves someone else, and would pursue them if he wasn't married, and that he's thinking of her and all that other stuff....

 

Whether she says it to you or not--IT FCKING HURTS TO THE CORE.

 

And I hope that you have told her through all this all the amazing things about HER (your wife) that make you not want to jeopardize your marriage. Because even if she doesn't seem it, she is probably feeling a little rejected by your strong emotion toward this other woman.

 

And think back what you said about yourself and rejection and how you felt.

 

I know this is a lot of introspection of yourself and your feelings and your actions and YOU YOU YOU.

 

Just try to see from wife's heart too

Two in a row! Got it, understood. Thanks.

[LargoLagg]

I don't mean with us. We are just posters on a board. And as this is our thread, it is us that could be accused of lacking empathy for you not vice versa. I mean in real life. In your every day interaction.

It would be hard for me to say where I fall on a spectrum vs. other people. I think my ability to identify with people's ups and downs and articulate these things actually helps me to connect with them. I hear "Exactly!" a lot. But that said, putting myself in other people's shoes is not my first instinct. Is that what you mean?

[Noirek]

It would be hard for me to say where I fall on a spectrum vs. other people. I think my ability to identify with people's ups and downs and articulate these things actually helps me to connect with them. I hear "Exactly!" a lot. But that said, putting myself in other people's shoes is not my first instinct. Is that what you mean?

 

Yes, but more so, do you feel detatched from them. And maybe without realizing it, better. If you were honest. Like because you can see all the pieces and they are focused on just one you feel above?

 

I am only asking because perhaps your view of OW is on an equal ground or even looking up. A different realm really for you and that could explain a lot of the connection and strong feelings.

[LargoLagg]

Yes, but more so, do you feel detatched from them. And maybe without realizing it, better. If you were honest. Like because you can see all the pieces and they are focused on just one you feel above?

 

I am only asking because perhaps your view of OW is on an equal ground or even looking up. A different realm really for you and that could explain a lot of the connection and strong feelings.

Do I feel detached from other people? Not generally, although that varies by the person.

 

Here's what I think you're asking:

 

You're essentially asking me if I generally feel like I'm dealing with children - that they are narrowly focused, and I have a big picture view, which leads me to view them as subordinates or lesser somehow. Your theory is that I've met my match, or maybe my better in OW, and because that's rare and refreshing for me, that's what I'm attracted to.

 

Is that what you're trying to get at? (this is where I'd ordinarily hear "Exactly!" )

[Noirek]

Do I feel detached from other people? Not generally, although that varies by the person.

 

Here's what I think you're asking:

 

You're essentially asking me if I generally feel like I'm dealing with children - that they are narrowly focused, and I have a big picture view, which leads me to view them as subordinates or lesser somehow. Your theory is that I've met my match, or maybe my better in OW, and because that's rare and refreshing for me, that's what I'm attracted to.

 

Is that what you're trying to get at? (this is where I'd ordinarily hear "Exactly!" )

 

Not quite but sure we will go with that. I am sure you get along great with people and have a winning personality. But it is something you are very much aware of and in control of. I don't know if you see people as far as children but maybe you do. But rather you notice that not everyone is intellectually on the same level. And you humour them. You are quite patronizing in your posts.

 

Btw sheldon cooper you are not. He is socially slow and you are smooth and practiced. I wasn't talking book smart though that you may be. I meant people smart. Like lawers, politicians, car salesmen, ect.

[LargoLagg]

Not quite but sure we will go with that. I am sure you get along great with people and have a winning personality. But it is something you are very much aware of and in control of. I don't know if you see people as far as children but maybe you do. But rather you notice that not everyone is intellectually on the same level. And you humour them. You are quite patronizing in your posts.

 

Btw sheldon cooper you are not. He is socially slow and you are smooth and practiced. I wasn't talking book smart though that you may be. I meant people smart. Like lawers, politicians, car salesmen, ect.

Well, actually, I was asking if that's what you meant. I wasn't sure. I'm still not sure.

 

My experience with love and attraction is that it's not the attention you get, it's not the personal characteristics and it's not looks. It's not even personality necessarily. All that stuff will make or break you once you get past the illusion stage, but I don't think it puts you in the illusion stage.

 

I could give you a laundry list of the things I like about OW, but I don't know what it is that makes her different, why she stands out to me in that way. The same is true for any woman I've ever been attracted to, and in fact, sometimes I've asked myself what I ever saw in some of them.

 

Anyway, if you could elaborate a little on what you were asking, I'd be willing to see if it gives me some insight into myself. That never hurts.

[wmacbride]

It would be hard for me to say where I fall on a spectrum vs. other people. I think my ability to identify with people's ups and downs and articulate these things actually helps me to connect with them. I hear "Exactly!" a lot. But that said, putting myself in other people's shoes is not my first instinct. Is that what you mean?

 

Being able to read people and being empathetic are not the same thing. You sound like you are awesome at reading people, but are lacking in empathy.

 

further, you are careful to dismiss anything said that you don't agree with by claiming it is only said by people who have been cheated on more seriously than what you have done.

 

Really a lot of people would feel the same way even if they hadn't been cheated on because they are able to empathize with how a bs would feel. Wiotth you, you see what you want to see.

 

Really, if I didn't know better, I's say you were my brother. I love him very much, and he is one of the best people I have ever seen when it comes to reading to other's emotions, but his ability to empathize is very small. This makes him an excellent business person, but difficult to get to know on an emotional level.

 

Think of it this way. If you were at a party, and your wife kissed another man, really close to his mouth, hung on his arm, kissed him the same way again before leaving and then you found out she had told him she love him and that he said reciprocated those words, how would you feel?

Edited November 25, 2016 by wmacbride

[Noirek]

I mean you usually think feelings and don't feel feelings. Your relationship with your wife is past feelings and now in the realm of thinking. But you felt for OW. Now you are trying to think your feelings for her. You are usually logical, practical and in control. OW brought out the feels in you and you enjoyed that. You didn't condescend to her like you do to others. But you know it won't last. So it isn't practical.

 

We all are selfish and have narcissitic traits. Sometimes if we can identify them and get to the bottom of them we can become better people. If we want. But if your only goal is to really just get over OW and hope that this never happens again than I guess that is your choice.

 

You strike me as someone with an over inflated sense of confidence in themselves. Those people are usually charmers and friendly because you aren't worried about what other people think of you. It can be a good thing but too much can be negative in relationships.

 

I think it was good you stopped your affair when you did. I think it was slimey of you to flirt like your wife wasn't there. I think that by the way you pretty much downplay and justify all your actions that every line you would have crossed had it kept going you would have just as easily justified in your mind.

[LargoLagg]

Being able to read people and being empathetic are not the same thing. You sound like you are awesome at reading people, but are lacking in empathy.

 

further, you are careful to dismiss anything said that you don't agree with by claiming it is only said by people who have been cheated on more seriously than what you have done.

 

Really a lot of people would feel the same way even if they hadn't been cheated on because they are able to empathize with how a bs would feel. Wiotth you, you see what you want to see.

 

Really, if I didn't know better, I's say you were my brother. I love him very much, and he is one of the best people I have ever seen when it comes to reading to other's emotions, but his ability to empathize is very small. This makes him an excellent business person, but difficult to get to know on an emotional level.

 

Think of it this way. If you were at a party, and your wife kissed another man, really close to his mouth, hung on his arm, kissed him the same way again before leaving and then you found out she had told him she love him and that he said reciprocated those words, how would you feel?

Honestly, I can't know the answer to that right now. My emotions are a little clouded, divided. I can look back in time and say that in the past, I might have gotten angry, at other times hurt, at other times rolled my eyes and at other times, I might have viewed it as an opportunity.

 

Marriage is like that, I think. You sometimes feel more devotion to the institution than you feel romantic love for the person you're married to. Other times, everything seems to click between you and you're reminded of the time when you met. Other times, hardship or tragedy will strip away everything else, and you find yourself clinging to the one person who's in this trouble with you, but that doesn't feel like hearts and flowers - it's something else that you have with each other.

 

That's exactly why I stopped this thing. It's not like when I was single, and I liked some girl, and then the next thing you know I liked another one, so out with the old and in with the new. It's not like that any more, there's much more to it.

 

I don't know about you, but it's not a straight line for me. The answer is not always the same.

 

I have been cheated on, although to my knowledge, not in marriage, I'll grant you that. I'm not sure I experience being cheated on the way other guys typically do. I was younger then, but they were very concerned about the sex itself, or at least, that's how they said it. It seemed like an ego thing to me more than anything else. My point is that what empathic person A might feel is not necessarily what empathic person B might feel, and so I think you're fooling yourself if you automatically think "oh, I know exactly what they must feel like." No you don't, at least, not necessarily. I reject the notion that this everybody feels the same way about the same situation. I reject the notion that you'll always feel the same way about the same situation at different points in your life. Over time, I think you can become a little more circumspect.

 

Further, you said I'm probably good at reading people. Well, I'm reading my wife, and I'm really good at that. She doesn't hide hurt very well, and I'm not getting that vibe at all. I think she's more along the lines of "roll her eyes at me", while also paying attention a little more. Maybe it's because she doesn't take this seriously, maybe it's because she believes in me, feels this will pass, that it's a bump in the road, rather than a sinkhole that threatens the existence of the road. I don't know why, I only know what I'm seeing.

 

That said, I don't think you're really saying anything different than the latest posts by ailed and waterwoman. They are essentially saying that it's fine that I know how I feel about it, but there is one other person that I haven't worried about, and it's time to start doing that too.

 

Noted.

[LargoLagg]

I mean you usually think feelings and don't feel feelings. Your relationship with your wife is past feelings and now in the realm of thinking. But you felt for OW. Now you are trying to think your feelings for her. You are usually logical, practical and in control. OW brought out the feels in you and you enjoyed that. You didn't condescend to her like you do to others. But you know it won't last. So it isn't practical.

 

We all are selfish and have narcissitic traits. Sometimes if we can identify them and get to the bottom of them we can become better people. If we want. But if your only goal is to really just get over OW and hope that this never happens again than I guess that is your choice.

 

You strike me as someone with an over inflated sense of confidence in themselves. Those people are usually charmers and friendly because you aren't worried about what other people think of you. It can be a good thing but too much can be negative in relationships.

 

I think it was good you stopped your affair when you did. I think it was slimey of you to flirt like your wife wasn't there. I think that by the way you pretty much downplay and justify all your actions that every line you would have crossed had it kept going you would have just as easily justified in your mind.

OK, I got you now. Hmm.

 

My very first reaction to that is to think back to that event, when OW and my wife were chatting. I wasn't freaked out about it, as an earlier poster suggested, but I was a little torn, and a little... I felt something else, not sure I can name it. As I stood there looking at them, I wondered what it would be like if their roles were switched, and it felt a little disconcerting. I also admired both of them and I did a quick compare and contrast, and in their interaction, I could see some of what attracts me to each of them. It reinforced the feeling that I'd lose as much or more than I'd gain, and how despite what I feel, what I should do for me seemed obvious on its face. It struck home how little I actually know about OW. To your point, in that moment, I didn't really feel those feelings as intensely for OW, as if they were blocked or diminished somehow. When I go back and review the timeline of my how I described that encounter, I see that's kinda the way I describe it, I fell into this cocoon of emotion once my wife's attention was elsewhere. It's like that's when it became "our time" (me and OW).

 

I'd disagree that I don't feel for my wife. It's just not as intense at the moment, and it's different. As a practical matter, what I feel for OW is the kind of feeling that brings people together, so it's difficult to resist that effortlessly. What I feel for my wife are the kinds of feelings that keep people together, making her extremely difficult to simply discard or even completely disregard. Clearly, I've disregarded her somewhat. Even so, I don't think those two flavors of emotion are comparable in any way. It's not like I just met both of them, or that I've lived a double life with each of them and now I have to decide.

 

As to my behavior, well, a lot of people say that in the end, you want to get caught, so you'll subconsciously do what you need to do. I don't know what made me act that way, but I felt compelled to do it and I think I surprised myself and OW with that kiss at the end. As much as I hate to admit it, it was a brazen declaration that I meant what I said to her earlier, even though we couldn't be together.

[Scarlett94]

Largo I must say your wife used some pretty harsh language for what you say is her eye rolling at you.

I'm not sure you're reading her right on this one.

You don't feel you should tell her that you told the OW that you loved her?

I think that is pertinent to your marriage and would be an important thing for your wife to know, don't you?

[LargoLagg]

Largo I must say your wife used some pretty harsh language for what you say is her eye rolling at you.

I'm not sure you're reading her right on this one.

You don't feel you should tell her that you told the OW that you loved her?

I think that is pertinent to your marriage and would be an important thing for your wife to know, don't you?

That annoyed her more than anything. If she'd been truly hurt by that, it would not have gone away. Trust me on that.

 

Should I have told her given that she didn't want to get into a discussion? No, no, no, no, and NO. If I ever do tell her, frankly, I want to honestly be able to say that I'm over it when I get the inevitable next question.

[merrmeade]

OK, I got you now. Hmm.

No, she's got YOU now, LL, that's why you can't resist trying to 'best' her. The only thing is, you won't. Noirek is not in it for winning or being right. She came here at a similar point as you but with the brutal honesty and penetrating insight that goes with a sincere commitment to personal change. Her openness was as compelling as it was heart-wrenching, though ultimately she helped herself. She never played games with posters or needed to best them though she could have run circles around any of us with her intellect and incisive analysis. She's not here for the sound bites but she'll expose posers.

[gia37]

Hi LL, thanks for telling me your age group and the marriage duration, my MM is exactly the same. Im 45 and I have been in an EA w him for several years and i really can't talk about it with anybody.[]

Edited May 14, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Personal content deleted.