I want the impossible

[waterwoman]

I don't mean to be hurtful, but to me it sounds like you're having trouble forgiving your married man for whatever in the world he did to you. You are no doubt still hurt, still suspicious, still just waiting for him to backslide. This part of your post drips with fearful cynicism. I can only tell you that you're wrong about me, although I'm not 100% convinced you were really writing about me. If I despised and resented my wife, I would have had the physical affair. THOSE are the men who despise their wives, the ones who fail to consider them when they go from thinking about it to DOING IT. While I'm at it, this snippet speaks to the same problem. You are hypersensitive, and seek to impute meaning and motive into the way regular people talk. "The wife" is an American idiom, so you can be forgiven for misinterpreting that. However, your husband uttering the phrase "my wife" REDUCES YOU TO A THING? Seriously? The only "thing" you are is a poor thing, that is so damaged by her husband's infidelity that even normal phrases and discourse seem to pierce you. I don't know where you think you are in your reconciliation process, but I'd venture to say that you still have a lot of forgiving to do, and somebody is probably walking on eggshells around you. Perhaps that's deserved, I can't say.Well, honestly? No friggin' way. I have to weigh the benefits vs. the harm and I just think this would cause needless harm. How has knowing worked out for you? Not well, I'd venture. I can only assume that's why you're here. What if H had repented in his heart, cut things off all by himself, and worked through whatever feelings he had for his trollop and you'd never found out? Wouldn't you be happier today? Would you really want to know? You'd have to be a glutton for punishment to say yes.

 

 

Thanks for taking to time to analyse me is such depth but I can assure you are are wrong on all accounts.

 

However this thread is about you and your marriage which was presumably why you posted in the first place. All we can do is offer advice and our own experience. You can take it or leave it without feeling the need to attack us. The fact that you do IMO speaks volumes about where you are at the moment.

 

I will say one more thing that I beg you to read without anger and instant rejection. If you tell your wife it will do several valuable things:

 

1. It will wake you up to the seriousness of what you have done - something that I don't think you are totally aware of yet.

2. It will show your wife the depth of your dissatisfaction and the cracks in your marriage and maybe together you can work things out.

3. It will make you equal partners in your marital future - at the moment your wife is a dupe. That is not a sustainable position to hold.

 

Believe me, if you has said anything anywhere on LS that indicated that you loved and respected your wife and valued her presence in your life, I wouldn't be so convinced that confession is essential. As things appear to stand I really can't see you being happy to carry on for the rest of your lives. Not telling is putting off the inevitable.

 

And FWIW one experience from my life I will share with you is that I had an EA many many years ago. He took it far more seriously than I did and left his GF to be with me and told me he would wait for me to divorce my H. Never going to happen! I ended it and left my job asap. I never told my H for all the reason you give - it would just cause pain, it didn't get physical, it's over - but that memory became poison in my marriage. It was my happy place to go to when thing were bad at home, when there was some sort of crisis, when I and I were arguing. I could think of a time when someone else loved me so much he'd sacrifice his primary relationship for me, I thought that was REAL love, it was my gold standard for 'love'. H never did anything as dramatic and romantic for me (why would he need to?). Even when H might think I was a bit of a cow and unreasonable, I could think of a man who thought i was perfect. The memories stopped me being as present in my marriage as I needed to be. Marriage takes total commitment - there are no half measure.

 

Take it or leave it.

 

Good luck

[LargoLagg]

Attack? You were the one who said I "continue to despise and resent my wife". Perhaps you don't know what despise actually means. You should look it up. Look up attack while you're at it.

 

I'm sorry if my counterattack hit a little too close to home. I felt provoked by your baseless remark. You say I got it wrong, but I see you've calmed down a little, so maybe I have at least touched a chord. Even if it doesn't apply to you, I stand by the analysis. I stopped way short of despise.

 

Good luck with whatever brings you here.

Edited October 24, 2016 by LargoLagg

[waterwoman]

As you wish. I am happy with my life and my relationship now. Can you say the same?

[wmacbride]

This post made me think about how I interact with people, both men and women. There are some similarities, but some differences too. It also made me contrast my interactions with those of other men in my social circles. I see them. I'm not quite ready to respond yet, but I wanted to acknowledge the post with thanks.

 

It was the opposite of a sausage fest, kind of a singles thing actually. Anyway, I'll get back to you on this.

 

I could just be me, but I wouldn't feel comfortable being at a party with a bunch of single men, not because I couldn't trust myself but because I don't really think I'd have much in common with them. This is no reflection on them at all-it's more a case of I don't think i'd have much to talk with them about as we would be in every different places in our lives.

 

Is it just sort of a fluke that you ended up at a party with mostly women, or is this normal for you? If so, why do you think you do this? What are you getting out of it? It is that you feel you have more to talk about wiith women then men, do you receive attention and find it flattering etc.?

 

With respect to your f-ow, how did the relationship start? Did you feel any "romance" that you were aware of right at the beginning,or did that just sort of creep up on you?

 

-if you noticed a spark right away,do you know why you didn't stop?

- if you didn't feel a spark right away, when did you notice it, and did you keep feeding it, kind of pushing the boundary line back further and further?

 

 

Finding answers to questions like these, and others,will help you move forward from here.

[howtogoon2016]

Not to thread jack, but from one MW to another, you really REALLY need to either stop it and go 100% NC with your MM, or just end your marriage. Your husband is going to find all of this out at some point and it's going to utterly destroy him. If you ever loved him at all - make a decision and act on it before you hurt him any more!!! Been there done that and it's horrible. Horrible horrible horrible

 

Thanks for the advice Birdie. I know what you are saying is 100% correct. It's the decision that is hard an actually taking the steps. I am in IC and working towards going NC to attempt at saving my M. I know that when I go NC I still may not be able to save it but the prospect of being alone is the one I think about, not running off into the sunset with MM. Either way I know there is pain for me ahead.

[Cloudcuckoo]

Attack? You were the one who said I "continue to despise and resent my wife". Perhaps you don't know what despise actually means. You should look it up. Look up attack while you're at it.

 

I'm sorry if my counterattack hit a little too close to home. I felt provoked by your baseless remark. You say I got it wrong, but I see you've calmed down a little, so maybe I have at least touched a chord. Even if it doesn't apply to you, I stand by the analysis. I stopped way short of despise.

 

Good luck with whatever brings you here.

 

You came here with a statement. 'I want the impossible'...

 

Yes you certainly do. As someone else has previously intimated, your disregard for any suggestions and experiences that you feel are direct attacks (though they may well be intended to shake you out of what some see as the affair 'fog'), appear to be a blatant refusal to process anything you don't like hearing.

 

look, the truth is we ALL feel a little bit provoked here periodically, that's simply the nature of getting an opinion we may not agree with, but the majority of us appreciate that humanity is so diverse it's what makes us so interesting, and getting a bit feisty is reasonable where as condescension is just a bit rude, don't you think? And your comments previously feel a bit like that....

 

Your situation is untenable, and posters here appreciate that and offer views and advice for you to sift through. Take what you feel applies without prejudice or condescension and you will get some valuable snippets to apply to your circumstances.

 

My Daddy's favourite old adage (and he was an Irishman with a quick tongue and a hot head periodically!), was, 'if you can't take it don't dish it out '....

[waterwoman]

You say I got it wrong, but I see you've calmed down a little, so maybe I have at least touched a chord.

 

I never stopped being calm. I think you are being a little patronising if not misogynistic by assuming that a woman can't state strong opinions or disagree whilst remaining calm. In fact saying that you despise your wife is not an attack - telling you that I despised you would have been one.

 

You are the one who appears to be frothing at the mouth. You said:

 

"The only "thing" you are is a poor thing, that is so damaged by her husband's infidelity that even normal phrases and discourse seem to pierce you. I don't know where you think you are in your reconciliation process, but I'd venture to say that you still have a lot of forgiving to do, and somebody is probably walking on eggshells around you. Perhaps that's deserved, I can't say.Well, honestly? No friggin' way. I have to weigh the benefits vs. the harm and I just think this would cause needless harm. How has knowing worked out for you? Not well, I'd venture. I can only assume that's why you're here

 

That sounds like losing your cool to me.

[heartwhole]

Largo Ladd, do you have any friends IRL you can bring up to speed? Although he didn't admit to the PA, my husband shared that he had feelings for another woman with a few trusted friends, and it was a big old reality check since he has pretty healthy friends. No one said, wow dude, how cool that this chick is into you. They all just said, WTF man! Slow down and think about what you are doing!

 

It can be quite a reality check when you step outside of your head and let others weigh in on your choices. We're all strangers so we're just making our best guesses based on the few paragraphs you've shared and our experience. People who know you IRL and trained professionals would probably be more on point for you.

 

I imagine an IC saying to you, "Hmmm Largo Ladd, do you usually go to parties with single people alone? Do you talk more to women or to men?" etc etc. And maybe this would lead you to insight, or maybe not.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't doubt that you love your wife. I just think you need to work on true empathy. Putting yourself in other's shoes, giving the benefit of the doubt, working to anticipate and meet the needs of your partner . . . these all go beyond simply feeling love and treating others as we want to be treated. That's easy since it's what we want from others. It takes effort and practice to treat others as they want to be treated. From the patches of story you've told, it's a big old question mark if you're treating your wife the way she truly wants to be treated, if you're concerned about her needs, if you're looking at yourself as part of a team.

[merrmeade]

I agree with heartwhole, and - although usually the first to go ballistic at such seeming indifference to the injury OP has done to his wife - I'm beginning to be more objective about WSs. A few are keenly aware and think about the harm and disrespect the A does to the BS before they actually witness it. But those who don't - well, I don't think they're going to get it except by seeing it first-hand.

 

OP doesn't offend me but at the same time I have no patience, ability or interest in helping him come to this understanding. For what it's worth, i hope someone does. I think he's got potential.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think he's got potential.

 

Not sure I agree. I think his posts are calculated, he's done little except play defense here. Like most WS, he's blinded by self-interest and his perceived need for self-preservation...

 

Mr. Lucky

[LargoLagg]

You came here with a statement. 'I want the impossible'...

 

Yes you certainly do. As someone else has previously intimated, your disregard for any suggestions and experiences that you feel are direct attacks (though they may well be intended to shake you out of what some see as the affair 'fog'), appear to be a blatant refusal to process anything you don't like hearing.

 

look, the truth is we ALL feel a little bit provoked here periodically, that's simply the nature of getting an opinion we may not agree with, but the majority of us appreciate that humanity is so diverse it's what makes us so interesting, and getting a bit feisty is reasonable where as condescension is just a bit rude, don't you think? And your comments previously feel a bit like that....

 

Your situation is untenable, and posters here appreciate that and offer views and advice for you to sift through. Take what you feel applies without prejudice or condescension and you will get some valuable snippets to apply to your circumstances.

 

My Daddy's favourite old adage (and he was an Irishman with a quick tongue and a hot head periodically!), was, 'if you can't take it don't dish it out '....

First, I didn't exactly come here. I landed here. I'm not convinced you guys are my intended audience, but that said, we're all here for something.

 

Second, based on your comments, I'm going to guess that you DID NOT look up the meaning of the word despise. You should, and then, I also sense that you'll understand why that triggered my response, and that, if you honestly look at my behavior and the behavior of your spouse, you will be forced to come to the conclusion that he was closer to despising you than I was to despising my wife. Once you concede that, then you'll have to admit your original post was an exercise in projection.

 

I will stack up my behavior against his any day of the week. All you have to do is tell me that you're glad he acted the way he did, and didn't act the way I did, and I will stand down from my criticism.

 

Last, as I've said many times, I didn't really come here to repent or to learn how to be sorry for what I've done. I'm really not ready for all that yet. To me, that's like putting the cart before the horse. I have another issue to deal with first. However, that said, I think you will have to agree that somewhere, deep down inside, I must at least recognize what you're trying to convey at some level. If I didn't, then I would have done what it seems everybody else has done so cavalierly. I would have followed through and created this ****storm in my life, her life, and maybe even OW's life. I didn't. Maybe I didn't make the choice soon enough, or maybe I was too forthcoming about my reasons when I spoke to OW. Maybe I could have said the same thing with different words, and it wouldn't have sounded so bad.

 

The problem is that I know myself pretty well. I know I would have felt regret for something unsaid and undone. So I got it out there, and believe me, I feel better for the effort. There's no mystery now between me and OW. I'm not wondering if she understood me, or if things might have been different if she'd only known how I really felt. If nothing else, we are crystal clear, and I never have to tell myself that I wish I had come clean with her. So that part is behind me, and whenever I revisit it, I know that I did everything I could do. I don't wish I'd done it differently. No regret.

 

The next part, the thing that I have been focusing on, is to convince my heart that I did the right thing, the best thing. It is not altogether unwilling to believe this, but there is a part of me that wonders what the future may have looked like with OW. I'll probably never know. In a year, or less, with any luck, I won't care. But I can't hold it all in, and I can't restart things with OW because I'm feeling weak. I'm not looking for my next conquest because I still have an itch to scratch. I think I've made some progress on this front in the past couple days.

 

I chose my wife over OW for a reason, and it wasn't because I despise her, despite your misgivings. However inarticulate or insensitive I've been, actions speak louder than words. I may be venting feelings that are not particularly admirable, but I'm not acting on what I'm sure are temporary urges. Again, I invite you to contrast what I did with your own experience, whatever that was, and just consider what your life might be like today if your WS had made the same choices, and had dealt with his desires in this way, instead of the way he did. Even if it took a little more time than you'd like.

 

That's all I'm saying.

[LargoLagg]

Largo Ladd, do you have any friends IRL you can bring up to speed? Although he didn't admit to the PA, my husband shared that he had feelings for another woman with a few trusted friends, and it was a big old reality check since he has pretty healthy friends. No one said, wow dude, how cool that this chick is into you. They all just said, WTF man! Slow down and think about what you are doing!

 

It can be quite a reality check when you step outside of your head and let others weigh in on your choices. We're all strangers so we're just making our best guesses based on the few paragraphs you've shared and our experience. People who know you IRL and trained professionals would probably be more on point for you.

 

I imagine an IC saying to you, "Hmmm Largo Ladd, do you usually go to parties with single people alone? Do you talk more to women or to men?" etc etc. And maybe this would lead you to insight, or maybe not.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't doubt that you love your wife. I just think you need to work on true empathy. Putting yourself in other's shoes, giving the benefit of the doubt, working to anticipate and meet the needs of your partner . . . these all go beyond simply feeling love and treating others as we want to be treated. That's easy since it's what we want from others. It takes effort and practice to treat others as they want to be treated. From the patches of story you've told, it's a big old question mark if you're treating your wife the way she truly wants to be treated, if you're concerned about her needs, if you're looking at yourself as part of a team.

I know, that's fair, again, I'm simply trying to deal with my own feelings first. I can't do it all at one time. I'm not 100% happy with the situation or even with myself. I have to discard some of the things inside of me. I don't know how else to say it.

 

I think maybe one of the problems with cheaters who get caught is that they're forced to have to deal with all of it, all at the same time. They have to deal with betraying the AP, the AP's BS, their own BS, the kids, the in-laws, the neighbors, whoever, everybody. It's a lot to take on and I can pretty much guarantee that they gave more thought to hiding than they did to the repercussions of their actions. I guess that's the penalty for getting caught before it ends.

 

I have the luxury of a little time. I can dip my toe in the cold water, rather than have it rain down on me when I'm not ready.

[LargoLagg]

I agree with heartwhole, and - although usually the first to go ballistic at such seeming indifference to the injury OP has done to his wife - I'm beginning to be more objective about WSs. A few are keenly aware and think about the harm and disrespect the A does to the BS before they actually witness it. But those who don't - well, I don't think they're going to get it except by seeing it first-hand.

 

OP doesn't offend me but at the same time I have no patience, ability or interest in helping him come to this understanding. For what it's worth, i hope someone does. I think he's got potential.

I'll take that.

[LargoLagg]

Not sure I agree. I think his posts are calculated, he's done little except play defense here. Like most WS, he's blinded by self-interest and his perceived need for self-preservation...

 

Mr. Lucky

You are an enigma to me. So far, you haven't been helpful in any way. That said, you've not been hurtful either. I'm trying to figure out what role you're playing here. So far, you're just Mr. Benign to me.

[LargoLagg]

This post made me think about how I interact with people, both men and women. There are some similarities, but some differences too. It also made me contrast my interactions with those of other men in my social circles. I see them. I'm not quite ready to respond yet, but I wanted to acknowledge the post with thanks.

 

It was the opposite of a sausage fest, kind of a singles thing actually. Anyway, I'll get back to you on this.

So, I think I've made some progress, but so far, it reads like War and Peace. I haven't forgotten your questions. They were timely and allowed me to gain some insight. I will respond.

[LargoLagg]

First, I didn't exactly come here. I landed here. I'm not convinced you guys are my intended audience, but that said, we're all here for something.

 

Second, based on your comments, I'm going to guess that you DID NOT look up the meaning of the word despise. You should, and then, I also sense that you'll understand why that triggered my response, and that, if you honestly look at my behavior and the behavior of your spouse, you will be forced to come to the conclusion that he was closer to despising you than I was to despising my wife. Once you concede that, then you'll have to admit your original post was an exercise in projection.

 

I will stack up my behavior against his any day of the week. All you have to do is tell me that you're glad he acted the way he did, and didn't act the way I did, and I will stand down from my criticism.

 

Last, as I've said many times, I didn't really come here to repent or to learn how to be sorry for what I've done. I'm really not ready for all that yet. To me, that's like putting the cart before the horse. I have another issue to deal with first. However, that said, I think you will have to agree that somewhere, deep down inside, I must at least recognize what you're trying to convey at some level. If I didn't, then I would have done what it seems everybody else has done so cavalierly. I would have followed through and created this ****storm in my life, her life, and maybe even OW's life. I didn't. Maybe I didn't make the choice soon enough, or maybe I was too forthcoming about my reasons when I spoke to OW. Maybe I could have said the same thing with different words, and it wouldn't have sounded so bad.

 

The problem is that I know myself pretty well. I know I would have felt regret for something unsaid and undone. So I got it out there, and believe me, I feel better for the effort. There's no mystery now between me and OW. I'm not wondering if she understood me, or if things might have been different if she'd only known how I really felt. If nothing else, we are crystal clear, and I never have to tell myself that I wish I had come clean with her. So that part is behind me, and whenever I revisit it, I know that I did everything I could do. I don't wish I'd done it differently. No regret.

 

The next part, the thing that I have been focusing on, is to convince my heart that I did the right thing, the best thing. It is not altogether unwilling to believe this, but there is a part of me that wonders what the future may have looked like with OW. I'll probably never know. In a year, or less, with any luck, I won't care. But I can't hold it all in, and I can't restart things with OW because I'm feeling weak. I'm not looking for my next conquest because I still have an itch to scratch. I think I've made some progress on this front in the past couple days.

 

I chose my wife over OW for a reason, and it wasn't because I despise her, despite your misgivings. However inarticulate or insensitive I've been, actions speak louder than words. I may be venting feelings that are not particularly admirable, but I'm not acting on what I'm sure are temporary urges. Again, I invite you to contrast what I did with your own experience, whatever that was, and just consider what your life might be like today if your WS had made the same choices, and had dealt with his desires in this way, instead of the way he did. Even if it took a little more time than you'd like.

 

That's all I'm saying.

Sorry, some of that was for waterwoman, not you. That said, the spirit of my comments still apply.

[LargoLagg]

Largo Ladd, do you have any friends IRL you can bring up to speed? Although he didn't admit to the PA, my husband shared that he had feelings for another woman with a few trusted friends, and it was a big old reality check since he has pretty healthy friends. No one said, wow dude, how cool that this chick is into you. They all just said, WTF man! Slow down and think about what you are doing!

 

It can be quite a reality check when you step outside of your head and let others weigh in on your choices. We're all strangers so we're just making our best guesses based on the few paragraphs you've shared and our experience. People who know you IRL and trained professionals would probably be more on point for you.

 

I imagine an IC saying to you, "Hmmm Largo Ladd, do you usually go to parties with single people alone? Do you talk more to women or to men?" etc etc. And maybe this would lead you to insight, or maybe not.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't doubt that you love your wife. I just think you need to work on true empathy. Putting yourself in other's shoes, giving the benefit of the doubt, working to anticipate and meet the needs of your partner . . . these all go beyond simply feeling love and treating others as we want to be treated. That's easy since it's what we want from others. It takes effort and practice to treat others as they want to be treated. From the patches of story you've told, it's a big old question mark if you're treating your wife the way she truly wants to be treated, if you're concerned about her needs, if you're looking at yourself as part of a team.

I don't need to talk to my friends to know what they'd say. I did, in large part, what my friends would counsel me to do. That said, I did it the way I thought best. I'm somewhat surprised at the reaction here, but upon reflection, maybe I'm not.

 

Those who know me probably wouldn't have a problem with that happy hour I went to, or what I did there, because they know me. But you know what? I'll ask them.

[Mr. Lucky]

You are an enigma to me. So far, you haven't been helpful in any way. That said, you've not been hurtful either.

 

Telling comment. It's not your hurt I see as the issue here, same I think with most other posters. You're setting your wife up for a world of pain but, like most WS, you've made a value judgement that it's worth it.

 

Good for you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[merrmeade]

There was a connection, a sweetness, a desire for each other. It was a lot like being in love in 4th grade.

I went there to get away, to find something to fill the void and fate put in front of me a reminder of the very thing I'm trying to put behind me. Do you believe in signs? What did the universe try to tell me last night? That I shouldn't walk away? That you're now out at parties eager to meet new men? That I won't be allowed to forget? That there are women like you everywhere? I don't know. Maybe it was just sheer coincidence. Maybe you'll meet someone who reminds you of me.

 

I've been trying to forget you, well, that's not right, trying to find a way to feel normal again now that you're not around. I wonder sometimes if you think of me too. I have to believe you do. I miss you, OW, I really do. ox

Look up "limerence." I especially like the comparison to 4th grade love. Yep. Reminds me of my first romance at 15. You've really got it bad. How does this happen to grown people?

 

I lived in an Asian country for many years. Arranged marriages are about as anti-Western as you can get, but they so worked and the couples were so loving. For example, their romance novels and movies are about "when" a married couple fall in love AFTER they're married. This phenomenon is part of the culture - the norm. (Propinquity, being thrown together with someone and getting close to them, falling in love over time must be at work.)

 

I mean you can fall in love with anyone you spend enough time with. Why not let it be your wife?

 

Vivir's is a good example of the obsessive aspect of limerence.

LargoLagg, I think an encounter such as this one would have sent me reeling had I experienced it. It seems you weathered through it nicely, however. Since my affair ended, I have been seeing the three numbers of xMM's area code literally everywhere - and those *tiny* reminders have made me think 'Is this a sign?' and 'Did I make the right decision to cut contact?' We talked on the phone more than anything, and it has been more difficult on some days not to dial his number, which I wish I didn't know by heart... I can only imagine how your encounter must've jarred you. Wishing you a renewed motivation to heal/return to normal as your mind calms down from those inevitable questions the encounter has caused you to ask.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have been reading this thread since its fruition....and I have kept silent for many reasons....but I have also been asked by several people who know my story to contribute.

 

LL...I am a WS....I committed adultery in 1983...it was very brief....one time sex....and it ended. There has been no contact of any kind since that time.

 

I confessed(I could have kept my secret...because no one knew)....and my husband gave me the gift of reconciliation. We struggled for many years in the aftermath of my betrayal. Thankfully...we seldom speak about it anymore...he seldom triggers anymore...and we are happier than we have ever been.

 

I am a supporter of confession...for one thing...I believe that the betrayed spouse has the right to decide whether or not to continue in a relationship with a person who has not loved them the way they thought we did. This is a really big deal....and sometimes really difficult for us as the wayward to comprehend. You see..when we choose to have a relationship with a person other than our spouse...it is narcissistic behavior. We have placed our needs and wants and desires and egos above the needs and wants of the person we vowed to put above ourselves. So we not only have to admit to our selfishness...we have to also admit our weaknesses...and become vulnerable to the very person we have injured. It is a frightening place to be because it means allowing another person to have complete control.

 

There are differing opinions about this topic of confession...some believe you can keep it a secret and simply move on with your life keeping it from your spouse. I see this argued back and forth here all the time. I guess for me the question becomes...what do you want out of your relationship with your spouse? and what kind of person are you?

 

I am a nurturing person...a fixer....my betrayal was completely out of character for who I am...however it showed me what I am capable of becoming. That revelation was very frightening for me. So I knew I needed to work on my boundaries, my ego, my selfishness. I knew I had to make sure that the very things within me that allowed me to become someone I did not know...were resolved and corrected...so that I never allowed "that" person to "come out" again.

 

So the first thing I did after confessing...was to make myself complete and totally transparent to my husband. I knew I needed to do that to hold myself accountable. I still live a life of transparency...even all these many years later. I tell my husband my schedule...he has all of my passwords to EVERYTHING. I keep no secrets. Now remember...I am a fixer...so I was willing to do whatever it took to make things right. In order for me to do this...I had to admit to myself that I was wrong.

 

Admitting wrong...is difficult...even when deep down we know we are. Admitting failure goes against our very nature. Oh it must be their fault...because it certainly cannot be mine. I think as waywards...we all go through a period of denial. Well I cheated because my spouse did ..this. Or I cheated because my spouse did not do ...this. We validate our betrayal by blaming the shortcomings on the very one we betrayed. In actuality....we would have cheated if our spouse had been perfect...WHY? Because the flaw that allowed us to cheat is within US...not our spouse.

 

So...on this path of recovery...especially in the beginning...we have to deal with our failure as a spouse...ours flaws as a human being...and the realization that we could...and deserve...to lose everything...and the only person we have to truly blame for this is..US.

 

It is not only a lot to comprehend...it is a lot to overcome. Almost...not quite...impossible.

 

In all of this I have just told you...I have not begun to scratch the surface...because in addition to what's going on inside of us as the betrayer....we have to deal with and help the person we did this to.

 

I would recommend the book "How to help your spouse heal from your affair" by Linda Macdonald. Even if you decide to never tell your wife...there are some really good things in this book that can help you also understand yourself.

 

Therapy is always good...and I know you are already in therapy.

 

One of the steps toward healing not only for our spouse but for ourselves...is the concept of remorse. Almost all waywards say I am sorry for what I have done...and we are...I don't doubt it. But there is a huge difference in being sorry and understanding and feeling remorse for what we have done

 

We can be sorry we got caught...sorry we hurt someone...sorry for our behavior....

But to truly understand the pain...to live in that pain...to put on that pain of others...is very hard to do. For one thing....we have to get past the denial stage because as long as we deny that we are completely and totally to blame for the choices we made...we cannot understand the depth of the injury we have caused. We also have to get past selfishness and self preservation. Remorse is not in any way about us. As long as we are still feeling sorry for ourselves...we cannot have remorse for anyone else.

 

There are many couples here who live in reconciliation...many betrayed spouses here who have good lives...but who have never experienced true undeniable remorse from their wayward spouse. They live in the hope that maybe someday their spouse will reach the plateau of remorse...but meanwhile...they accept what their wayward has given them and live life the best they can. There is nothing wrong with "acceptance". Some people will simply not settle....some will...and the right answer is totally and completely what is right for you and your spouse. Sometimes divorce is the right answer.

 

My husband lived with acceptance for many many years...always hoping...that I would understand the severity of the damage I had caused him. We are not poster children for the cause of reconciliation...we both made many mistakes on this journey. The main reason we are here is to give hope to those who feel like they are in a hopeless situation. If we can succeed...so can many others.

 

I see in many of your posts...struggle. I hope some of the things I have said here help you...and if there is anything I can address for you...don't hesitate to ask me.

 

One of the things that you said that jumped out at me was this....the infidelity is over.

 

No...it isn't. The act of actively cheating may be over...but the infidelity remains. It will always remain. It is up to you to decide how you want it to affect the rest of your life...but it will always and forever be a part of who you are.

[Noirek]

why did you choose your wife?

 

I don't mean why didn't you continue the affair and take it further which you answered, I mean, with such strong feelings of connection and love for this other woman why is it you chose not to divorce your wife and persue an out in the open relationship with your OW?

 

It seems to me once you found yourself there you had a few options.

 

A. Continue the affair as it was, emotional

B. Take it to the next level, physical

C End it, refocus on your wife and current marriage

D. End your marriage and persue a relationship with OW

E. end your marriage and be single because you no longer wanted to be with your wife. Growing apart sort of thing.

F. End it and for now focus on pining for what you are not letting yourself have.

 

You chose F at this point in time. Why is that? Do you know? You didn't even properly end it from an outside perspective. You unnecessarily shared the L word. Which is usually done in sort of a grand romantic gesture with a motive that you may or not admit fully yourself. And no, its not to be honest about your feelings with someone you cared about. Because if that was really a part of your character than you would tell your wife of your affair in order to be honest about your feelings or it would be you actually don't care about your wife. At least not near as much as the OW. Which woukd go back to why did you choose her?

My guess, based on general human behaviour is that you did want something to come of your confession on her part. Nothing to do with honesty. And she actually disappointed you by stepping back and not talking you into remaining in the affair. The fact you didn't put any nails in the coffin of your relationship but instead left it wide open with a "for now" post script also supports this. There is no "for now" when an affair is truly nipped in the bud and thrown out.

Just a few things to hash through. Knowing the real reason why you chose F at this point might help you down the road, when you get some self gumption, to pick a direction and stick to it.

What is the impossible you want and why is it impossible?

[SolG]

Hey LL. I've just read your whole thread. To me you seem like you're struggling with a sense of understanding why you're where you're where you are. Maybe even WHO you are.

 

All the back and forth is possibly enlightening online... but isn't the point at some stage to be yourself IRL? Isn't the point in forging relationships to actually be known and intimate in the true sense of the word? To be known and loved for who you are?

 

This is a conversation that my MM and I had often before he confessed. And at it's most fundamental level it always came back to the point that you can't be intimate... with me or his wife... if you can't be intimate. Physically, emotionally, truthfully.

 

When you dally in your intellectual discourse you delay the growth of knowledge. I'm not professing that knowledge will not lead to rejection. I guess I'm asking you to contemplate wherher it's better from your perspective to be loved as a lie or be rejected and live your truth.

[LargoLagg]

I dropped off this thread because, well, frankly, you guys weren't doing it for me. So many of you have done the hardcore version of this dance that I think that you forget that you have to come to terms with yourself before you can really take any positive steps forward with anybody else. The only reason I'm even sharing this with you strangers is that I just needed a place to vent and a place to articulate. Doing that helps me think. I felt bad about the whole thing, both selfishly so, and nobly so. I thought I had to take care of the selfish part first. I've said that a million times, so I'll move on. I'm back because I felt like I should close the loop with you all. I dread how most of you will react.

 

Since that time, I've seen OW again. My wife was with me that time, and to tell you the truth, I was scared ****less - not because I was with my wife, but because of the way I'd left it with OW. To me, this was like a breakup, and usually when you breakup, there are hard feelings unless nobody gives a damn. I didn't have any ill will towards her, but I had no idea how she'd react to me, and since that day, we hadn't talked or emailed or texted. It felt suddenly and purposefully distant between us. That was the part that scared me.

 

When I finally found the courage to approach her, OW was talking to a man, and I walked right up, got her attention by grasping her arm, and I kissed her on the cheek and tentatively said hello. Yes, my wife was there, and while it's not my usual greeting with other women I know, it is my usual greeting for OW. I didn't know what to expect from either of them. I also wasn't exactly sure how to act.

 

The man just kind of slithered away imperceptibly, he was gone before I knew he'd left. OW and my wife chatted for a short while, and then my wife turned her attention to someone else. That's when OW turned to me. She asked me how I was, and she couldn't have been warmer. We quickly went into our usual little world, she was touching my arm, my tie, and I was reciprocating in kind while we chatted in our closer-than-normal personal space. She was looking at me the way I imagine I was looking at her, which was really happy to see her, to be around her again, to be in her company. We indulged ourselves in this little mutual admiration society for probably 15 minutes, and then I noticed my wife motioning at me that we should go. I nodded in assent, and I turned to OW and very impulsively, I pulled her close and kissed her goodbye (again on the cheek, but very close to the mouth) and I lingered there for just a little longer than normal. Then I told her I had to go. From the outside, it probably looked mild, but it was an ardent gesture, and she looked at me like she recognized that. I got a hug, and she squeezed me and pulled me close with her hand, kissed me on the cheek and said goodbye. We were looking at each other like two lovers do, with a lot of unspoken conversation going on. Then I left.

 

My wife and I left the event very soon after, and we gave a neighbor a ride home too. After I dropped the neighbor off, my wife turned to me and asked

Wife: "WTF is going on between you and OW? You looked like a couple of lovebirds."

Me: "Well, the truth is that, as you know, I spent a lot of time with her this summer, and after getting to know her, I just really like her a lot."

W: "**** you, Largo Lagg. Don't tell me that you like other women. You ****ing *******."

M: "You asked, I'm just being honest."

W: "And what about her?"

M: "OW? Oh, she loves me."

W: "Yeah, everybody loves you until they have to live with you. Remember that."

W: "So you like seeing her? Doing things with her?"

M: "Yeah, I do."

W: "Do you want to be with her?"

M: "To be 100% honest, if you weren't around, yeah, I'd probably want to date her, but I'm not single, so I know that's not an option."

W: "Do you think you love her? Do you want permission from me, or what?"

M: "Remember when we first went out, and the way I used to look at you? You said I was so intense it made you uncomfortable at first. Remember that?"

W: "Yes"

M: "Did you see anything like that today?"

W: "No."

M: "Well then, what are you worried about? I never loved anybody like the way I fell in love with you. In marriage, it turns out that my love is like a roller coaster. Sometimes it goes up and sometimes it goes down. That's just the way it is. As for her, I haven't done anything with her more than you saw today. Yes, we're close, and yes, we're attracted to each other, but the line has been drawn there, and besides, I haven't seen her in weeks. I just missed her, that's all, and obviously, she missed me. We were glad to see each other. That's what you saw."

W: "I'll just say this. If you ever get the idea in your head that you want to cheat with her, you come see me first. I'll straighten your ass out right away. Don't you ever cheat on me, do you understand me? I will cut your d*ck off, I promise you."

M: "I understand. OK. You don't have to worry about that."

 

That's probably not word for word, but it's pretty close.

 

And that was pretty much the end of it. Once I got home, and I had a chance to think about it, I realized that what really scared me was that I felt like maybe I had discarded something rare and valuable with OW, that I'd thrown a chance at real love away. That I destroyed this thing between us by rejecting the possibility of us being together. What I realized by seeing her is that her feelings for me are real, and they are not so easily discarded by either of us. I found a lot of comfort in that. I realized that even if she starts dating some other guy(s), I'm always going to be a question mark in her mind, just as she'll always be one in mine. I may not always feel so intensely but I'll always like her, no matter what, and she'll likely feel the same way towards me, that there is some unfinished business between us. I'm not after her for the sex. I get plenty of sex already. It's so much more than that, and we developed the start of a connection that is rare and beautiful and it feels good. But as it stands, I know I've lost nothing, and I think she felt that she lost nothing. We are just in a hard circumstance, given how much we like each other. We both understand the reality of this.

 

The next day, I emailed her some information I came across that was one of the things we talked about. The email was strictly business on my part. She emailed back, thanked me for the info, and closed with something very sweet and with an OXOX. I left it at that, I didn't reply. She knows I was happy to see her. I didn't have to say so. Maybe it was a test to see if I'd reciprocate. It doesn't matter. Neither of us have reached out since then.

 

I felt differently after that. I don't pine anymore. I feel secure in what OW and I have or had, and I understand our boundaries and what we don't have, what we will probably never have. I don't know what to called it, but whatever it is, I'm ok with where we stand. My wife is not a shrew, and my love for her does wax and wane over time, but it hasn't died. I'd never leave just to be with someone else. The only reason I'd ever leave her is for me, and I'm nowhere near ready to leave for my sake.

 

This happened a couple of weeks ago, and while I do miss seeing OW, I'm ok now. Seeing her was good for me. That talk with my wife was good for me. I feel very comfortable with where I ended up. Maybe this is horrible of me, but I also don't regret making that connection with OW. It's a beautiful thing, and I'm also glad we didn't take it to the next level. I'm glad my wife is aware, and that she's not nearly as freaked out about this as many of you seem to be. I like that she's secure enough in our relationship to give me enough rope to hang myself. I know a lot of you think that I did just that, but I'd say maybe I just tried the rope on for size. Anyway, I don't like drama, and my wife is not a drama girl. Thankfully, neither is OW.

 

So where do we go from here? Well, I'll respond to some of you guys tomorrow, and then I'll spend the day cooking and cleaning with my wife for Thanksgiving and have some fun.

 

If I don't talk to you, have a wonderful Thanksgiving. I wish you all well.

Edited November 23, 2016 by LargoLagg

[Fair]

Listen, get over it. It's difficult because you've built up a fantasy about this woman which is always better than reality ... and it would burn out if you were together just like it did with your wife. Women get old, start to nag, familiarity breeds contempt and all that... the grass is never greener on the other side... you ARE indeed looking for the impossible... so quit feeding the fantasy and grow up.

[LargoLagg]

Listen, get over it. It's difficult because you've built up a fantasy about this woman which is always better than reality ... and it would burn out if you were together just like it did with your wife. Women get old, start to nag, familiarity breeds contempt and all that... the grass is never greener on the other side... you ARE indeed looking for the impossible... so quit feeding the fantasy and grow up.

 

Yeah, I know all that. it's one thing to know, and another to feel it. I'm better than I was, and I don't want the impossible anymore.

 

I will correct you about one thing. Sometimes the grass is definitely greener. Not in my case, or at least, I doubt it, but sometimes, you can definitely upgrade. It's just a hell of a lot easier to take a chance if you're not married, that's all.