Fiance got a lap dance WITH touching at friend's bachelor party...

[jenkins95]

I think at this point, where the op has clearly spelled out that they are working through this together and moving on, that it's cruel for the naysayers to be continuing with their negative talk and to be putting unpleasant ideas and images in driver's head.

 

To suggest that this is infidelity, for example, is rubbish in my opinion. For that to even be a remote possibility, he would have to have a) planned to cheat in a premeditated manner and b) derived actual sexual pleasure from the experience. It's very obvious that neither of these are true. He was there as a bachelor party, not through choice and how can you have sexual pleasure in an environment like that with lots of people around whoopping and cheering. The only thrill he probably got was that of being a naughty boy going along with the guys...... And he clearly regrets that.

 

This kind of thing happens guys. I shared some of my stories (and there are more). My wife too has done experiences. at one friend's hen do, she was asked (pretty much forced really) to rub baby oil over a male stripper and lick whipped cream off him while he simulated seed with a banana! We laughed about it after, and the girls all laughed at the time, but she didn't really enjoy it - she felt very uncomfortable. For these reasons and many others, i personally don't like the very idea of strip joints. They exploit people and put them in an environment where there is pressure to do something like this when they may not really want too. Meanwhile done people get very rich.

 

Anyway, come on now guys. Driver is moving pay this now - let's lay off the negativity. Let's wish her nothing but the best for her upcoming wedding!

[Els]

He was the one who told me everything that happened. The only thing his brother squealed on him about was the fact that he was NOT under pressure to behave this way. My man told me willingly he had a lapdance. When my mind started picturing it I asked him if he touched her and he told me he did. I think he didn't want me to know the entire picture - ie him being the only engaged/married guy to do this and him not being pressured - but he did at least tell me what happened. I will give him that.

 

I agree that it's wrong. I agree I was betrayed. I agree he made a low move that isn't consistent with who I thought he was. However I don't think this is worth ending a great relationship over... Problem is i just have to hope this doesn't permanently affect my view of him.

 

Has he at least apologized and offered to try to make things right?

[jenkins95]

Personally, I wouldn't want to go though marrying a man so weak he felt "pressured" by his mates to do things with prostitutes right before he was about to marry me.

 

This is the kind of post I am talking about. Whilst every poster is entitled to their opinion, I fail to see how this is helpful given the OP's recent updates. This can only hurt and sow doubts and nasty images. I also feel that this is a vast distortion of what actually happened. The use of the term 'prostitute', for example is inappropriate and unfair.

[elaine567]

The use of the term 'prostitute', for example is inappropriate and unfair.

 

Is it really though?

 

prostitute ˈprɒstɪtjuːt/

noun

noun: prostitute; plural noun: prostitutes

1. a person, typically a woman, who engages in sexual activity for payment.

Is that not exactly what happened here?

He paid her $40 for her to nakedly grind on his penis whist he touched her a$$ and breasts in a private hotel room.

 

If he had just paid her for "fun", I guess she would have told him a few jokes and entertained him with her juggling act...

The term "stripper" in this context, is used to cover up what is really prostitution.

We, as a society, and you, may not like to think of it that way, but that is what it is.

[Osmium13]

Whatever you do OP do not get a stripper for your hens because you will die of shock!!!!!!!!!

 

I think that's a great idea for the OP. The stripper that is - not dying of shock!

[Arieswoman]

elaine567 nails it here,

 

Is that not exactly what happened here?

He paid her $40 for her to nakedly grind on his penis whist he touched her a$$ and breasts in a private hotel room.

 

If he had just paid her for "fun", I guess she would have told him a few jokes and entertained him with her juggling act...

The term "stripper" in this context, is used to cover up what is really prostitution.

We, as a society, and you, may not like to think of it that way, but that is what it is.

 

We, as a society are too fond of sanitising issues to make them more acceptable.

 

We talk of "passing away" instead of "dying".

We talk of animals being "processed" instead of "being slaughtered".

And we talk of "lap dancers" instead of "prostitutes".

 

Changing the label doesn't change the truth, whatever way you slice it

[road]

Better than 10 pages of a "he cheated, we've been married for five years he says he will never do it again but I can't trust him" thread.

 

How would that husband that got the lap dance feel is the shoe was on the other foot?

 

 

Say the wife went to a bachelorette party and got a lap dance and played with the equipment with her hands and mouth.

 

 

When in a relationship doing those acts with someone else is cheating.

 

 

Being this was at a party does not make it ok.

[Sunkissedpatio]

This is the kind of post I am talking about. Whilst every poster is entitled to their opinion..

 

Well that's my opinion.

 

This can only hurt and sow doubts and nasty images.

 

No, what hurts and sows doubts and nasty images is the fact that Driver's husband-to-be painted a pretty sordid picture of how he was "pressured" into doing acts with a bunch of prostitutes in the name of "celebrating the beginning of a lifelong commitment to the woman he loves" I didn't plant any doubt that her own fiance hand't already planted in her mind. Nice try on deflecting though.

 

The irony of a bachelor party of that sort, really escapes so many. I am of the camp in society that thinks there is absolutely NOTHING normal that happened in that hotel room. Not the kind of "normal" I would want in my life, and a LOT of women and men would agree.

 

elaine567 nails it here,

 

We, as a society are too fond of sanitising issues to make them more acceptable.

 

We talk of "passing away" instead of "dying".

We talk of animals being "processed" instead of "being slaughtered".

And we talk of "lap dancers" instead of "prostitutes".

 

Changing the label doesn't change the truth, whatever way you slice it

 

Couldn't agree more, blow jobs and full on sex happen in strip clubs. Strippers were the ones from the 50's who took off their clothes and went off stage after the show, nowadays they are prostitutes. Calling them anything else is naive.

 

 

 

How would that husband that got the lap dance feel is the shoe was on the other foot?

 

Say the wife went to a bachelorette party and got a lap dance and played with the equipment with her hands and mouth.

 

When in a relationship doing those acts with someone else is cheating.

 

 

Being this was at a party does not make it ok.

 

 

My thoughts exactly! I was going to ask earlier what the husband would think if she were rubbing balls and "dancing" cheek to cheek with his pecker. Hey it's all in good fun having another man's balls and dick rubbed in your face and then going home to kiss her husband-to-be. Right?

 

Because we all know how accepting and non-jealous men are of their women and other men's dick-in-a-box in their face.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[Sunkissedpatio]

To suggest that this is infidelity, for example, is rubbish in my opinion. For that to even be a remote possibility, he would have to have a) planned to cheat in a premeditated manner and b) derived actual sexual pleasure from the experience.

 

Wow that is how you define infidelity?

 

So you mean to tell me that if you found out your wife went out on a girls' night, met a guy at a bar, unexpectedly ended up having sex with him and came to the conclusion she didn't enjoy it after the fact you would give her a free pass from infidelity because it wasn't planned and had no sexual pleasure from the experience?

 

Interesting.

 

You are welcome to make up and live by your own rules but to the rest of world that is the definition of infidelity.

 

You seem to live by loosey-goosey rules, prostitutes have your own definition, infidelity has your own definition...

 

Those of us having an opinion here are going by the actual meaning of the those words.

[jen1447]

Anyway, come on now guys. Driver is moving pay this now - let's lay off the negativity. Let's wish her nothing but the best for her upcoming wedding!

 

Eh, I'm not sure we can all do that in good conscience. Honestly her fiance sounds harangued and cowed to me now - not exactly a formula for a hugely successful marriage.

 

OP, I really think you should re-evaluate in terms of mutual values. Badgering someone into feeling bad about doing sth that they obvs didn't feel bad about when they did it doesn't equate genuine remorse, and more importantly it reflects a baseline difference of priorities and ethics. That's the sort of thing that makes for unhappy lives when ppl end up stuck with each other.

[BettyDraper]

This is the kind of post I am talking about. Whilst every poster is entitled to their opinion, I fail to see how this is helpful given the OP's recent updates. This can only hurt and sow doubts and nasty images. I also feel that this is a vast distortion of what actually happened. The use of the term 'prostitute', for example is inappropriate and unfair.

 

To be fair, strippers are sex workers. They take off their clothes for money and do sexual acts for cash too....even if they never have intercourse with their customers.

[Driver]

Thanks guys, for all the responses - it means a lot.

 

Yes - he has apologized and even cried profusely. Maybe to someone from the outside view it seems silly that I would make him cry over him touching a naked stripper and trust me - I keep wrestling with that thought that I am taking it too far. He doesn't seem to think I am taking it too far and seems very disgusted with himself over what he did - because in the context of OUR relationship and what I thought were our shared morals, he acted out of line. He keeps saying sorry and that he understands he screwed up but I keep asking him WHY he did what he did and didn't have an answer. Is it because he was overcome with lust? Eh - I really don't think so as he states he didn't even have an erection and it was a weird thing in a rule full of dudes. Is it because he feels he sacrifices so much and deep down he wanted to just do something to take control back? Is it because he wanted one last hurrah as marriage is scaring him more then he thought? Is it possible to just do something without thinking? His response is repeatedly "I don't know, I genuinely wasn't thinking and I don't have an explanation for what I did."

 

 

Seems like there are multiple ways of looking at this and I am definitely on the side of "this isn't acceptable." But what would you do if you were with the love of your life for five years, had a healthy and very happy relationship, and always believed there was a certain element of trust and respect there and then this happens? No matter what anyone says it is incredibly depressing to think this whole time I thought I had a guy who would be the one sitting in the corner not partaking any of this... And he actually was the only engaged/married guy who participated. THAT is the guy he is? Tough pill to swallow. Maybe it's wrong of me to categorize men as "the good ones" vs "the ones I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole" when it comes to situations like these - but this is one of those character defining situations got me. I am allowing my whole view of my fiancé become completely warped and in a way that's very unfair but I almost can't help it. It's especially insulting because I am 27 and come from divorced parents and it took me a VERY long time to feel ready for marriage. I've read the marriage books, done counseling, gotten to a certain level of trust and this happens one month into engagement. Anyway it's going to be an up and down battle over the next few weeks until I come to some kind of resolution in my head over this.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Oh Driver, reading your last post is making me so sad.

 

I feel your pain so much. To be forced into a situation where you have to either overlook or make a tough decision based on one stupid selfish act by the person you are about share your life with is truly unfair.

 

The period of engagement and planning your life together beyond the wedding is one of the happiest times of a couple's life! You are thankful and feeling really lucky because you found each other, you are totally in love, you are full of hope and excitement for what lies ahead and to be put is this situation to have to reconsider all that because "boys will be boys" and a bunch of your man's friends "pushed him" to do something with prostitutes he now regrets, is really REALLY unfair to you!

 

Asking Driver to just deal with it and get over it, is like asking anyone who has a conviction about anything they don't feel comfortable with to just "get over it"

 

I really feel your pain Driver, and I feel the disappointment you must be feeling. Guys don't seem to understand how important it is to some women to be with someone who has true integrity vs integrity that is out the window when "mom" isn't around to catch him.

[BettyDraper]

Driver, the bottom line is you cannot stay with your fiance if this is a dealbreaker for you. How other people feel does not matter.

A divorce is far more expensive and heartbreaking than calling off a wedding.

 

I'm wondering if your parents' divorce was partly because your father visiting sex workers or going to strip clubs.

Maybe this incident was triggering for you?

[Driver]

I know my dad had an issue with porn when my parents were still together. I remember walking in on him looking at some creepy site, finding porn on the family computer here and there, and then my parents getting into a huge screaming match after I turned on the TV to watch cartoons and a nasty sex flick. I don't think porn has to be that huge of a deal but the way I grew up it was a huge no no, some nasty secret. My parents have been divorced for like 13 years, never stops feeling weird. Also it doesn't help that my dad is some sex maniac and a few months ago I overheard him bragging to my brother in law that when he went to the Phillipines he had FIVE different prostitutes throughout his week there and had sex with them sometimes two at a Time. Ha. That's a whole different issue entirely.

[elaine567]

Thanks guys, for all the responses - it means a lot.

 

Yes - he has apologized and even cried profusely. Maybe to someone from the outside view it seems silly that I would make him cry over him touching a naked stripper and trust me - I keep wrestling with that thought that I am taking it too far. He doesn't seem to think I am taking it too far and seems very disgusted with himself over what he did - because in the context of OUR relationship and what I thought were our shared morals, he acted out of line. He keeps saying sorry and that he understands he screwed up but I keep asking him WHY he did what he did and didn't have an answer. Is it because he was overcome with lust? Eh - I really don't think so as he states he didn't even have an erection and it was a weird thing in a rule full of dudes. Is it because he feels he sacrifices so much and deep down he wanted to just do something to take control back? Is it because he wanted one last hurrah as marriage is scaring him more then he thought? Is it possible to just do something without thinking? His response is repeatedly "I don't know, I genuinely wasn't thinking and I don't have an explanation for what I did."

 

He knows exactly WHY he did it, he just doesn't want to tell YOU, as I guess he knows you would be even more upset with him if he did.

He is just protecting himself here.

 

I think Jen made an excellent point.

"Badgering someone into feeling bad about doing something that they obviously didn't feel bad about when they did it, doesn't equate to genuine remorse,

and more importantly it reflects a baseline difference of priorities and ethics."

[TunaCat]

I'm pretty open minded about most things, but I gotta say, I draw the line at touching during a lap dance. The lap dance itself wouldn't be an issue for me, but the fact that he was TOUCHING her, would absolutely be an issue, and I'd probably call off the wedding.

 

Excuses like "the guys talked me into it" or "I felt pressured to do it" are more like examples of a guy's immaturity. If a guy cannot stand up to his friends and say NO, then he's not ready for marriage. Peer pressure is something that kids & teenagers deal with. An adult should be able to handle peer pressure and not give into it.

 

And the fact that he cannot even give you a legitimate answer as to why he did what he did would also be an issue for me because it would feel like he was only protecting himself. He's not being open and honest with you at all about why he did this and that's not okay.

[jenkins95]

So you mean to tell me that if you found out your wife went out on a girls' night, met a guy at a bar, unexpectedly ended up having sex with him and came to the conclusion she didn't enjoy it after the fact you would give her a free pass from infidelity because it wasn't planned and had no sexual pleasure from the experience.

 

I would realise that she'd made a terrible error that she'd possibly been pressured into (if we are talking about a strip club/hen night situation as is the case here) and, if she was genuinely remorseful, i would forgive her pretty instantly because I know we are only human. Needless to say, if it happened again, I wouldn't be so forgiving. That's me guys - I recognise the fact that none of us are perfect - we are fallible. I certainly know I am. What Driver's fiancé has done here is a million times less serious than actually having sex, even if some of you still insist that it constitutes infidelity.

 

I also think that any stripper, at least the ones I know, would take exception to being labelled as a prostitute'. It is different. Strip clubs do have rules and in my experience, any kind of touching is VERY Strictly policed and any private activity is usually being observed by security staff.

 

If I appear to be making light of what happened here, I don't mean to. It's just that Driver has said that up until now he has been the perfect fiancé and I think it would be such a shame to throw all that away over some stupid shenanigans that got out of hand. The point is what he did was very wrong, and it is very unfortunate that Driver has had to deal with the aftermath - singing that she probably never thought she would be dealiing with. But if we help to build it up in her mind into something huge, then she may never be able to get over it. Instead let's try to help her keep an open mind on it and give her the freedom to draw her own conclusions.

 

I am trying to say that while it is something bad and needs dealing with very seriously (and from Driver's posts, this appears to have happened), let's not build it into something insurmountable. Just browsing these forums for 2 minutes will highlight the fact that, as things go, this indiscretion works rank pretty low against most of the horrors set encounter here.

 

If he truly has been a model boyfriend for 5 years, my own personal stance world be that he deserves a chance to prove to Driver that this way out of character and was a huge mistake that he will learn from. Now, if he does the same thing again, I'll get a flight out there and kick his sorry ass out myself! But we all know that's never going to happen - he has learned so much from this and is displaying genuine remorse from what you say in recent posts.

 

Good luck Driver. I'm most encouraged by some of your latest posts - you guys will get through this! If no one ever got a second chance, if no one was ever allowed to fail, it would be a pretty cold world we lived in.

 

I wish you both nothing but the best. I hope you have a wonderful wedding.

Edited September 18, 2016 by jenkins95

[jenkins95]

You are welcome to make up and live by your own rules but to the rest of world that is the definition of infidelity.

 

You seem to live by loosey-goosey rules, prostitutes have your own definition, infidelity has your own definition...

 

In my opinion (which I don't feel you care for very much - but that's fine ), what happened here does not constitute infidelity. Just me!

 

If my wife was in a situation like this, and ended up touching the six pack of a male stripper (and if you read a previous post, you'll see she was in a situation not a million miles away from this)...... while everyone around is drinking and in uproarious laughter, I personally wouldn't consider myself cheated on. I would laugh about it with my wife later, and then gently suggest that she is very careful if she finds herself in that situation again because things can get out of hand and that I don't really appreciate what she did. I'd then forget it.

 

But hey, perhaps that's just me being 'loosey-goosey'! I like it! I've never heard that expression before and I can tell that I'm going to be annoying my work colleagues with my new phrase tomorrow in the office!

[major_merrick]

Glad you're moving on and getting married. Use this as a great example of what NOT to do. Bachelor/Bachelorette parties are often a very BAD idea. So set a new standard - don't do that before your own wedding.

 

Best of luck!

[BettyDraper]

I'm pretty open minded about most things, but I gotta say, I draw the line at touching during a lap dance. The lap dance itself wouldn't be an issue for me, but the fact that he was TOUCHING her, would absolutely be an issue, and I'd probably call off the wedding.

 

Excuses like "the guys talked me into it" or "I felt pressured to do it" are more like examples of a guy's immaturity. If a guy cannot stand up to his friends and say NO, then he's not ready for marriage. Peer pressure is something that kids & teenagers deal with. An adult should be able to handle peer pressure and not give into it.

 

And the fact that he cannot even give you a legitimate answer as to why he did what he did would also be an issue for me because it would feel like he was only protecting himself. He's not being open and honest with you at all about why he did this and that's not okay.

 

I wouldn't be so sure. Many people marry and have children because of peer pressure. Since adults can make huge decisions like that based on what others are doing and social pressure, then surely they can be pushed into other acts particularly when alcohol is brought into the mix.

 

I would also caution the OP against holding her fiance to perfectionist standards or else marriage will be a rude awakening for her.

Nobody is perfect. Everyone is fallible.

Edited September 19, 2016 by BettyDraper

[Sunkissedpatio]

In my opinion (which I don't feel you care for very much - but that's fine ), what happened here does not constitute infidelity. Just me!

 

If my wife was in a situation like this, and ended up touching the six pack of a male stripper (and if you read a previous post, you'll see she was in a situation not a million miles away from this)...... while everyone around is drinking and in uproarious laughter, I personally wouldn't consider myself cheated on. I would laugh about it with my wife later, and then gently suggest that she is very careful if she finds herself in that situation again because things can get out of hand and that I don't really appreciate what she did. I'd then forget it.

 

But hey, perhaps that's just me being 'loosey-goosey'! I like it! I've never heard that expression before and I can tell that I'm going to be annoying my work colleagues with my new phrase tomorrow in the office!

 

Oh c'mon now of course I care about your opinion! Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't want to hear your view. And I'm glad you liked "loosey-goosey" I can believe you never heard that.

 

I don't disagree with you about the infidelity thing in fact. I don't know if I would call this an infidelity either, but the idea of what went down in that hotel room is kind of gross and to a bride-to-be it is very disappointing to hear a story like this about her fiance. It speaks volumes of his ability to set boundaries and it is alarming to the OP.

 

I mean what else can he potentially be "peer-pressured" into? Is he going to get peer-pressured into doing things on every night out with the boys after marriage? Is he going get pressured into kissing and sleeping with a woman coming on to him who doesn't take no for an answer?

 

Either he is really weak and I would be very worried to spend the rest of my life with a weak-willed man, or he uses others as an excuse for what he really wants to do (which I suspect is what is happening here) or both.

 

There is something fundamentally wrong with bachelor parties.

 

I'm sure some strippers that don't cross the line might take offence to being called hookers but the women that were involved in this party were in fact hookers. I think a lot more went down in that hotel room. Sorry but it's not that far fetched to think that and as a bride to have to be thinking about if more did happen or not is unfair. Why put someone through that? Is more my point.

[Arieswoman]

There is something fundamentally wrong with bachelor parties.

 

I agree.

 

IMO having strippers/dancers before marriage is, for men, it’s an offense against their bride her beauty, and her dignity. Your wife (or husband) is your number 1 before and after marriage. How can a man claim to love his fiancée and be committed to her while simultaneously going off and enjoying sexual attention from other women for a night?

 

We don’t promise ourselves to our future spouse on the day of our marriage, but many months before when we propose to them/accept their proposition. Faithfulness and commitment don’t start on the wedding day but before—long before. The wedding is just the next step of the journey.

 

Only the OP can decide if she and her fiance are on the same page over this.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Arieswoman

[elaine567]

I also think that any stripper, at least the ones I know, would take exception to being labelled as a prostitute'. It is different. Strip clubs do have rules and in my experience, any kind of touching is VERY Strictly policed and any private activity is usually being observed by security staff.

 

That may very well be true, but this scenario described by the OP did not happen in strip club, it happened in a hotel room.

The bachelor party organised two private strippers to come to their hotel room, so no "rules" involved here.

[jenkins95]

Oh c'mon now of course I care about your opinion! Just because we disagree doesn't mean I don't want to hear your view. And I'm glad you liked "loosey-goosey" I can believe you never heard that.

 

I don't disagree with you about the infidelity thing in fact. I don't know if I would call this an infidelity either, but the idea of what went down in that hotel room is kind of gross and to a bride-to-be it is very disappointing to hear a story like this about her fiance. It speaks volumes of his ability to set boundaries and it is alarming to the OP.

 

I mean what else can he potentially be "peer-pressured" into? Is he going to get peer-pressured into doing things on every night out with the boys after marriage? Is he going get pressured into kissing and sleeping with a woman coming on to him who doesn't take no for an answer?

 

Either he is really weak and I would be very worried to spend the rest of my life with a weak-willed man, or he uses others as an excuse for what he really wants to do (which I suspect is what is happening here) or both.

 

There is something fundamentally wrong with bachelor parties.

 

I'm sure some strippers that don't cross the line might take offence to being called hookers but the women that were involved in this party were in fact hookers. I think a lot more went down in that hotel room. Sorry but it's not that far fetched to think that and as a bride to have to be thinking about if more did happen or not is unfair. Why put someone through that? Is more my point.

 

Great post sunkissedpatio! You're right, it's fine to respectfully be able to disagree, but even better when we find common ground as we clearly have now.

 

Does this mean we are friends now .....please? (big puppy dog eyes!)

 

I agree almost entirely with what you have said here. The only slightly different angle I would take relates to this line...

 

"what else can he potentially be "peer-pressured" into?"

 

You see, if the only thing we knew about this guy was the events of that night, then yes, I'd be right with you. But we have learned a lot more about him than that from Driver. Firstly, we know that he has been the model boyfriend for five years and second, we learned that he is really wracked with guilt about the whole thing, regrets it, has profusely apologised and the two of them have been in floods of tears together about it many times. For me, this bodes well; he is clearly a decent guy who just got carried away and did a silly thing.

 

Rather than thinking that his actions indicate that he is likely to be peer-pressured into doing other questionable things in the future, I would take the stance that the aftermath of what happened, including his own guilt, shock, seeing Driver hurt and the realisation that he very nearly blew the whole relationship, would guard him against ever putting himself into such a situation and/or letting his guard down ever again.

 

One reason why I am so keen to speak up for giving people a second chance as I have in this thread is that I myself have been very lucky to get a second chance after I did something a million times worse than Driver's fiance has done. I have grabbed my second chance with both hands and am giving it 100%. It has changed me very much as a person - I would never put myself in questionable situations again or lower my boundaries. I am an open book now and our relationship is so much healthier. Whilst I am an advocate for second chances and am very grateful for mine, I do not agree with third chances. Making a mistake like that again after seeing the pain it does the first time round, would rank as pretty unforgivable and I will and can never ever let that happen. I'm hoping that Driver's fiance can learn the same life lessons as I have and put them into practice, having made a much smaller (but nonetheless still serious) indiscretion than I did.

 

By the way, I can't get 'loosey-goosey' off my mind, Such a cool phrase. I am determined to use it in work at least once today. My colleague on the desk next to me keeps a very untidy desk - papers, coffee cups, books, etc everywhere. I'm thinking of trying. "Hey, that's a very loosey-goosey way you keep your desk" and just see what their reaction is! ;-)

 

Have a lovely day everyone!