Fiance got a lap dance WITH touching at friend's bachelor party...

[TrustedthenBusted]

As another angle, I am revolted at the lack of empathy among the "buddies" who "hoot and holler" at a "poor girl" "crawling around the room in her panties".... That is not a way to treat a fellow human being, and it also turns female sexuality into a laughable sideshow instead of something to be treasured.

 

I can understand a group of 12 year old boys hooting and hollering due to their immaturity. But for men in their 20s, I expect them to act like grown men and treat others with dignity. So for me it wouldn't necessarily be the nudity or sexuality per se, it would be the denigration and exploitation of women and women's sexuality.

 

Plus the lies. If someone really thinks it's OK to have a strange woman rub herself on him for money, he should go ahead and own that and admit it, just like all of us should own and admit everything we think is OK.

 

 

Not to get too side tracked here, but there is a flip side to this whole thing.

 

Those women are giving men the kind of show that men like. We love your bodies and your curves and your sexy attitudes. Hell, if more WIVES gave their man shows like that at home, strip clubs would go out of business. But it's YOU wives who think it's degrading and disgusting..so most of you don't do it. Even though you KNOW we like it.

 

Happens all the time with porn. Too many wives take the stance that porn is disgusting and should be forbidden because it's giving men unrealistic fantasies, and men only want what they see in porn.

 

In actually, porn is basically just showing men what men are ALREADY fantasizing about! Believe me...we don't need to see a video to get new ideas. We start having those ideas from about age 12.

 

Same thing applies. if more wives gave it to their man they way their man WANTS it.... bye bye laptop.

 

Just saying...

[Gloria25]

Nothing says, "I'm committed to having a life with someone as my spouse" as having some insatiable need to have a stripper gyrate herself on your body before wedding day....

 

IMO, if a guy sees himself locking himself down with you as so miserable and restrictive that he feels he has to do something with another woman before the wedding day, then he's not ready for marriage and is immature.

 

IMO, a man and woman - in the first few years of dating, and especially in the first few years of marriage should be so into each other that no one can catch their eye in the least. They are looking forward to every steamy moment with that person - not feel a need to mess around with strange.

 

That's all I have to say...

[Gloria25]

That's OK driver! I'm delighted at your reaction and I want to really stress that I am not playing down the nasty shock you had.

 

In my stories, I was trying to convey what false, strange, pressurised places those strip clubs are. It's very easy to end up doing something a bit silly even when you don't really want or intend to. There's so much pressure being put on you and expectation from all the staff. I laugh now at my stories, but at the time I just wanted to get it over as quickly as possible and get out - give me a nice pub, bar or restaurant anytime over one of those places. Plus i'd be completely broke very quickly if I made a habit of going to there often!

 

Congratulations on your engagement! It's really exciting. In a few years, you'll both be laughing about this. It's something you'll be able to tease him about forever. IMHO, It's not worth stressing too much about, but of course, you can't help how you feel inside. I really hope you can both put it behind you soon - you are at such a nice, exciting time in your lives and the world is your oyster. I wish you nothing but the best!

 

Umm, so it's the whole stripper environment that pushed this poor guy to do the wrong thing?

 

Wow, ok.

 

Look, I've been around people who sniffed cocaine, smoked pot and even escalated to harder stuff. Not once have I tried a drug and/or smoked pot...ever. And, trust me, they invited me to partake in their vice and I politely said "no", and kept it movin'...

 

I don't know, unless a young couple (let's say 20's) make a five year plan to stay together via a long term engagement and pursue school, work, etc. before marrying, I could see a couple taking that long to get married. Otherwise, within 1 1/2 to 2 years of "dating", someone should know if they see you as someone they would like to marry. This guy has been in this RL for five years, and now upon engagement pulls this little stunt? Sounds like he never wanted to commit and still doesn't want to...likes keeping that one foot outside of the door.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Gloria25

[ShatteredLady]

I truly wish that someone had REALLY explained this to me before I got married!

 

"Please make it a point to communicate. If you can do that effectively in your marriage that's half the battle. Everyone can work on being a more effective communicator."

 

....this is actually a fantastic opportunity for this couple to do work that could improve their whole married life!

 

For years I glossed over statements like that. I just thought, we talk, we chat, our communication is great! My husband recently betrayed me in a horrible way & I look back & see the warning signs 26 YEARS ago!!

 

When the going gets tough, the communication goes out the window!! It all starts with the classic, "my husband doesn't want to hurt me!". Then resentments build!

 

We've all been talking about how much a lap dance is really worth. It could be priceless if it creates great communication between this couple! She should thank him for phoning, being in contact, telling her. She should talk about how much it hurt that she had to drag some information out of him.

 

The worst thing is if this is handled poorly & he learns it's better NOT to tell in future. I always tell my kids (& follow it up with actions) that if they do bad & lie to me it's WAY WAY WAY worse than if they immediately tell me.

 

As I said, my H had an EA with his ex mistress. If he had told me that she contacted him in the first place it would NEVER of happened! We're on the brink of divorce, just had our 20th wedding anniversary, all because of lack of communication!!!!

 

We had such a close relationship. He came home & told me exactly what happened on his stag party. I asked questions, described how I felt, he did the same, all hunky dory. Laughs & OMG's.

 

My marriage was PERFECT for me & my H when we could openly talk about everything, anything.....That's so very much easier when everything is great or your only issues are outside of your relationship. This is actually a great opportunity to test & grow how you handle real issues as a couple!

 

It's big enough to be a consuming issue in your relationship but it's not serious enough, given your H reactions, to be a life long damaging thing. Know what I mean? You guys will get over this (if you're like me & you seem so) & you could reach a point that you laught at/with him over it (I've been married a long time. Never underestimate the value of silly!) Deal with this properly & it could even be a positive experience in your lives!!

 

Marriage isn't rainbows & unicorns. People say "Marriage is hard work!" I didn't want to believe that! I denied that for decades!! Look where it got me!! Read some of my posts!! Anything worth having is worth working on....

[skydiveaddict]

We have a good and honest relationship, he very kind and respectful of me, and I've never felt like he has ever truly "wronged" me. That is, until he went to his friend's bachelor party in Vegas this last weekend.

 

Ah yes. Nothing says "I love you" more than attending a bachelor party in the tackiest city on earth.

[jenkins95]

Umm, so it's the whole stripper environment that pushed this poor guy to do the wrong thing? Wow, ok.

 

Yes! The environment contributes massively. These places are pressurised, everyone around is doing the same thing, alcohol is in abundance and guys egg each other on.

 

This is a million miles away from him, off his own back coldly planning and then visiting a massage parlour - and keeping a big secret. He was in the strip club as part of a group, it wasn't his choice. He did go a bit too far and I'm sure the environment, the pressure and the alcohol helped...and he told the OP immediately.

 

 

This guy has been in this RL for five years, and now upon engagement pulls this little stunt? Sounds like he never wanted to commit and still doesn't want to...likes keeping that one foot outside of the door.

 

No, no, no! Please don't fill the OP's head with this stuff and sow doubts in her mind as she starts to think about marriage. This is a MASSIVE overreaction. He was a naughty by in a very false environment. This was a case of guys being guys - not nice maybe, but it happens and was just a bit of fun. He is sorry and embarrassed and has owned it. Slapped wrist, move on and forget about it.

[Arieswoman]

Gloria25 makes a good point,

 

I don't know, unless a young couple (let's say 20's) make a five year plan to stay together via a long term engagement and pursue school, work, etc. before marrying, I could see a couple taking that long to get married. Otherwise, within 1 1/2 to 2 years of "dating", someone should know if they see you as someone they would like to marry. This guy has been in this RL for five years, and now upon engagement pulls this little stunt? Sounds like he never wanted to commit and still doesn't want to...likes keeping that one foot outside of the door.

 

OP is there a reason why you have been engaged for so long but not married?

 

And how old are you?

[dreamingoftigers]

Honestly I am not sure what I want from him. I don't WANT him to hurt over this, and he is hurting terribly. He has apologized profusely and nearly cried, and has generally been a wreck all week. SEEING him as upset as he is makes me think that I am the one who has taken this too far. But at the same time when I give myself time to reflect I always come back to that image of him rubbing someone else's breasts and butt. Shamelessly in front of all of our engaged/married friends who have a little more class than that. I think it's one of those things where I've accepted his apology and I don't want him to hurt this much over it. But something inside ME changed - bottom line the perfect good guy I used to see... Now I realize he's capable of doing the typical dude things that girls get enraged about. I guess I lost trust, plain and simple. It also shifted my perception of him, what he did is representative of the type of guy that terrifies me.

 

That won't change back. Trust me.

 

You can't understand that image.

 

I'm honestly convinced that once a person disappoints you like that, it's pretty well done.

[jenkins95]

Gloria25 makes a good point,

 

 

 

OP is there a reason why you have been engaged for so long but not married?

 

And how old are you?

 

I don't see anything wrong with a five year courtship. It seems completely normal me.

 

The point I am trying to make is let's just see this for what it is. Yes, he screwed up..... But at least he has the decency to own it, apologise, be honest and be very embarrassed. He very likely got no 'pleasure' from the seedy experience other than laughing amongst guys. He just got too drunk and carried away and he feels terrible. I really hope the op can get past it. It would be such a shame to end an otherwise perfect relationship for this.

 

I have much more concern for the wife in the thread about the immature guy (plays x-box non stop), than this guy. He seems like a nice guy who just did a very silly embarrassing pathetic thing.

 

How are you today Driver?

[jenkins95]

I'm more with Jenkins on this one....but Jenkins you DIDN'T need to give-in to peer pressure in your first story!.

 

Very true SL - I didn't. I can be a very weak man and I struggle with a certain word that starts with N and ends with O. It's got me in a fair amount of trouble in my life. But I'm a changed man now! Onwards and upwards!

[Arieswoman]

jenkins #109

 

I don't see anything wrong with a five year courtship. It seems completely normal me.

 

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one....

 

But at least he has the decency to own it, apologise, be honest and be very embarrassed.

 

No, he didn't. He originally lied about it and then trickle-truthed her. And that is more my concern that what he actually did.

 

PS jenkins, I love those rose-coloured spectacles you have on...

[jenkins95]

Sorry, duplicate post.

 

Or, should I say '10 characters'!

 

Ah, that feels better. Always wanted to do one of those!

[skydiveaddict]

-Bachelor parties these days are drab and unimaginative, strip clubs and lap dances; BORING.

 

I hosted my brother in law's party. First I rented go-cart track; everyone had a great time. Then a few rounds of do or die paint ball warfare Then a steak dinner at an upscale place. Topped off the evening by renting out a classy pool hall in boulder.

 

Next morning 9 holes of golf followed by getting everybody to sky dive. Some scardy cats but we got everyone out the door.

 

They all thanked me after and said it was far and away the best bachelor ever.

 

THAT's how you do a bachelor party.

[Els]

I agree with those who said that the stripper isn't a threat to your relationship.

 

That being said, something can 'not be a threat' but yet be distasteful. If I went to a male strip club and had strippers rub all over me, they aren't a threat to my R either, but I'm pretty sure my SO would be put off by it.

 

I might be biased since I'm speaking as someone from a different culture, but the whole 'strippers at a bachelors party/hen's night' culture just seems really odd to me. I could maybe understand if it was back in the day when people weren't actually 'exclusive' before they got married - they didn't date long term, didn't have sex, and didn't live together before they married. In that case it could be seen as a 'last single night' thing before getting married and being exclusive.

 

In this day and age though, people are typically exclusive for a long time before they get married or engaged. On your bachelor's party night, you likely hadn't been 'single' anymore for a long time, same thing with your 'single' friends. In the modern context, the appropriate time for lap dances from strippers would've been just before you agreed to exclusivity with your new lady friend.

 

So why is it so common in some cultures to have strippers at bachelors' parties, to the extent that the OP felt pressured to allow her guy to go even though she wasn't really comfortable with it? Goodness only knows. I'm really, really glad it isn't common in my culture, though. We have bachelors' parties and hen's nights, but not with strippers. The dudes usually just get wasted at a pub while watching sports, and the girls have a fancy dinner with champagne and nice outfits and stuff and give the bride gifts. Much more reasonable IMO.

[jenkins95]

 

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on that one....

 

Fair enough Aries! Often, I think we need to take that attitude just to achieve some kind of harmony as we're all so different and come from our own angle! I'm quite happy to agree to disagree sometimes with people I respect like you. For what it's worth, I love most of your posts and they have helped me a lot.

 

Anyway, it's a nice day here. I'm off out sunbathing with my kids. Now where did i put my sunglasses...... The nice rose coloured ones!

 

Have a great weekend all

[elaine567]

You didn't draw that line, though. For you to be this upset about a lapdance, you should have laid out clear ground rules. He's just a man, not a mind reader.

 

He is an adult not a five year old, he surely doesn't need told how to behave, he doesn't need "ground rules" laid down. He is a grown man, he is no longer a single man, he is an attached man. He doesn't need "ground rules" to understand what that means, surely?

 

He is newly engaged and somehow he felt it was OK to get a lap dance and grope some stripper's a$$ and boobies. What did he think his fiancée would say to that?

Did he really believe she would be OK with it?

Or was he just chancing his luck and doing "what men do, when women aren't looking", and now the excrement has hit the fan, he is oh so sorry...

 

Trust is a precious thing in a relationship, especially the trust that a person is not going to hanker after members of the opposite sex, and if given the chance will not give in to temptation and cross the line and touch them inappropriately.

Here, he violated the trust she had in him.

 

Yes, we can all go down the route of "boys will be boys" and he was just "a little bit naughty" and we can minimise the OP's distress by calling her insecure and immature and that she just needs to turn a blind eye..

 

But the fact is that he willingly touched another women sexually, and that is actually cheating, when all is said and done. It is not a "silly" or "trivial" act. To add insult to injury, he actually paid to grope the stripper... As Gloria rightly said he "pulled a stunt" here.

 

The OP is now the one having to come to terms with that.

Her engagement and all the excitement and promise that held, is now tarnished by his actions. In her eyes he is no longer the type of man she thought he was.

She has lost trust in him and that is huge deal, as trust once lost is very hard to recover.

[JewelD]

He is an adult not a five year old, he surely doesn't need told how to behave, he doesn't need "ground rules" laid down. He is a grown man, he is no longer a single man, he is an attached man. He doesn't need "ground rules" to understand what that means, surely?

 

He is newly engaged and somehow he felt it was OK to get a lap dance and grope some stripper's a$$ and boobies. What did he think his fiancée would say to that?

Did he really believe she would be OK with it?

Or was he just chancing his luck and doing "what men do, when women aren't looking", and now the excrement has hit the fan, he is oh so sorry...

 

Trust is a precious thing in a relationship, especially the trust that a person is not going to hanker after members of the opposite sex, and if given the chance will not give in to temptation and cross the line and touch them inappropriately.

Here, he violated the trust she had in him.

 

Yes, we can all go down the route of "boys will be boys" and he was just "a little bit naughty" and we can minimise the OP's distress by calling her insecure and immature and that she just needs to turn a blind eye..

 

But the fact is that he willingly touched another women sexually, and that is actually cheating, when all is said and done. It is not a "silly" or "trivial" act. To add insult to injury, he actually paid to grope the stripper... As Gloria rightly said he "pulled a stunt" here.

 

The OP is now the one having to come to terms with that.

Her engagement and all the excitement and promise that held, is now tarnished by his actions. In her eyes he is no longer the type of man she thought he was.

She has lost trust in him and that is huge deal, as trust once lost is very hard to recover.

 

Yes, people DO need ground rules in grey areas such as bachelor and bachelorette parties. You don't think the wife addressed her expectations with the groom beforehand?? Whether he followed them or not is unknown, but they surely discussed it.

 

Just because you and OP don't like strippers or the touching doesn't make it a universal wrong that all humans adhere to. and she said she didn't have an issue with the lapdance or the grinding, but the 'touching'. Sorry, you can't rationalize that after the fact. It doesn't make sense. The lapdance itself was sexual in nature and yet she didn't have an issue with that? Just his hand touching her?? How in the world would he have known it was okay to have his penis grinded on but not to touch an ass or tit?

 

With complicated 'rules' like that, yes, you need to sit down like a grown woman and tell your partner beforehand. Don't wait til he comes back, grill him, call his friends, flip out and talk about how embarrassed you are because he did it in front of his friends. No one can deny that this would have easily been avoided by telling him "don't touch strippers". Pretty simple. If touching is 'cheating', why isn't the lapdance 'cheating'? and why is OP still considering a future with this man?

 

If my partner was going to vegas for a bachelor party, I honestly wouldn't care, but if I was that type of person who gets upset over the thought of him touching a stripper, I would have asked him not to go in the first place. I mean really, how do you think strippers get all those 1's in their g-string?? You touch them. And there are a lot of married/engaged people who frequent these joints. Hell, some of the strippers are spoken for as well.

 

OP can feel however she wants, but there's a clear difference between what happened here and a man who purposely goes out with the intention of cheating and hiding it from his partner. If that was the case, she would have never known he was going to Vegas in the first place. His friends would not have been in the room.

 

She also seemed to have ridiculously high expectations of him from the jump. Perfect good guy? Who has ever had one of those? Whether it was touching a stripper or getting into a shouting match, at some point, as a regular person, he was bound to 'tarnish' this image of himself on a pedestal.

[Driver]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. We had a long talk last night - half screaming match and half crying. I think it's safe to say he is incredibly remorseful about the whole thing and didn't once try to justify his actions with the old bachelor party excuse. He felt that I had every right to be mad and has basically felt like a piece of crap the entire week. So in the context of our relationship we are together in the fact that he crossed the line. Then he admitted he cried last night and was at a major low point because he thought I was going to end things with him. And started tearing up right in front of me. It was then I knew that maybe I've taken this too far. I think we both agree he screwed up and I have every right to have been upset - but maybe I took this too far in light of the fact that he's never even come close to doing anything questionable with another woman and never once in five years has he shown any disrespect to me. I guess THAT is what I meant when I said he has been the perfect guy. I don't literally mean perfect - he has his flaws and we've had our fair share of fights - but I meant the level of respect he has shown for me literally has been pretty darn perfect and that's why this whole thing was so weird.

 

After the argument was over we went out to dinner, hung out in our new back yard, and took a bath while we talked about everything openly. And then something unexpected happened - we made love twice and it was pretty darn amazing as I felt very connected with him.

 

So no - he's not off the hook by any means. He still touched a stripper - but I think at this point he feels bad enough about it.

 

To everyone that has been asking - we are only 26. I just finished school and started my career 9 months ago, and he just started his first real job this year too. That was kinda what I wanted to happen before we got engaged. JI don't think five years is a long courtship when you're our age and trying to get your careers up and running.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

That was not what was said at all. The Bachelor got a lap dance too, but the fiancé was the only other married/engaged guy to get a lap dance.

 

 

This makes no sense.

 

Nobody made any mention of "what was said".

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

If you truly believe that nobody else got a lapdance or touched a stripper besides your fiancee and the groom, you need a reality check. You weren't there and it's really not your business what anybody else was doing anyway.

 

 

There's the bottom line.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

Based on what you've said recently, you are being a major drama queen. Especially considering you were ok with him having a lap dance, so this is just about the fact that he touched her instead of just her touching him, which is something that SO easily and often happens in the moment. You allowed the lap dance. The extremely minor infraction of him touching her during the dance is just that - an extremely minor infraction.

 

You're reaction is a bit crazy.

 

 

 

And again - more reality.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

If you dont like it, that's your concern and your choice. It doesn't mean those of us who dont consider a lap dance cheating dense individuals.

 

That being said, just because you dont know about it doesnt mean your man never does it. He probably just doesnt tell you. If you dont want your man around a stripper, by all means, tell him not to go to a bachelor party in the first place. Dont tell him its cool and then interrogate him and his friends afterwards. That IS insecurity. Especially if youre going to stay with him anyway.

 

And strippers isnt a "boys thing", there are plenty of male strip clubs frequented by single and married women. Now if a dude got pissed at his gf about going, would we be telling him she's a filthy tramp for even going? Of course not.

 

 

Still more sage reality for the OP.

[Arieswoman]

You're reaction is a bit crazy.

 

Telling the OP that "she's a bit crazy" isn't her reality and isn't helpful.

 

OP, it seems from what you have posted that you have forgiven him and have decided to move forward.

 

Good luck x

[SincereOnlineGuy]

 

It's not insecurity to say "I respect myself and have value. These are my boundaries. If you don't think I am worth living by these boundaries, you're free to ease on down the road and I"ll find another man who does."

 

 

That's true, BUT you don't get to approve of the action, and then back-out later. It just makes you look like an even bigger fool when you do that.

 

 

we had talked about it and I knew it would likely happen.

 

 

 

The time to man-up and state your boundaries and your ultimatums is before anything occurs.

 

 

 

The OP shoulders some responsibility in all this, based on her gross unawareness of what a lap dance entails.

 

 

It is sorta like telling your child he can have a candy bar when over at his friend's house... and then freaking out later upon learning that there was SUGAR in that candy bar!! (and then scolding the kid AFTER the fact)

[SincereOnlineGuy]

...I didn't even think...I did NOT think...I had NO idea... So I am just supposed to take this?

 

 

Yes, and for the good of your own future WITH this fiance.

 

 

 

And I am DYING to know why you think that what a stripper does AFTER giving yours or anyone's fiance a lap dance has anything to do with that lap dance.

 

It doesn't matter whether she goes on an does a live sex show, whether she goes and has a cigarette, whether she goes home to pay for her relative's cancer treatment, or whatever. The first step in your not being seen/judged as the "chump"... is your ceasing to judge others.