Fiance got a lap dance WITH touching at friend's bachelor party...

[Sanman]

Understand what you mean, but I think recovery comes from accepting what really happened, processing how you feel about it and deciding to move forward.

 

When my ex-wife had an affair, I don't recall thinking "at least it wasn't TWO other guys"...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It isn't about thinking that there were two other guys. I don't know your situation, but someone getting drunk and going too far one night is different from carrying on a 20 yr affair. Context matters in all things.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Well, not all he could get. 1 lap dance is the length of a song 3-5 min. What else happened? Did he get one lap dance and have a few drinks and hang back or did he get 10 lap dances? Did his brother and the other guys get 10 lap dances and the fiancee only got one. People are talking about how,bad things are now. The facts seem to be he got one lap dance at a bachelor party they both agreed he could go to and then she got mad, pulled away, and threw his clothes in the diet because he touched the girl that was dancing in his lap. Hardly the stuff of divorces in most cases. However, she has to make peace with the fact that communication was poor on both parts prior to the trip and that all she can do is trust her fiancee about what happened. No one said he went crazy and blew $4000 on the strippers. You aren't getting much for $40.

 

Wow you think it's about the money? It's about what else did he do with a hooker. The money spent is incidental I'd think.

Did he get a bj in the other room? Did they take turns fckng the pro in another room? Possibilities are endless as to what happened.

 

Sure one lap dance is different than a 2 year affair but they are about to get married and if boundary issues are happening now what's to expect down the line when life gets really challenging?

 

And this notion that "she agreed to let him go to a stag with strippers..." Have you ever had to tell a man, your partner, a man who is determined to participate in stag behaviour "I don't like that and I really wish you wouldn't partake"? Talk about a futile exercise that almost always ends in the woman being made out to be a "controlling insane freak" and he ends up going anyway but hiding what happened because he knows how you feel.

[Arieswoman]

SKP I support you 100%

 

I had a look back through Loveshack and there are 5 threads on variations of this topic.

 

So at least 5 females out there are very upset/distraught/questioning/ disillusioned about their prospective husband's behaviour at these "batchelor parties" . And I think that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

IMO too many females are going along with this and trying to be "cool" when they don't really feel good about it.

 

So there needs be be cultural shift and more females need to stand up for what they feel is right for them.

 

Rant over.

 

I hope we hear back from the OP soon....

[Friskyone4u]

SKP I support you 100%

 

I had a look back through Loveshack and there are 5 threads on variations of this topic.

 

So at least 5 females out there are very upset/distraught/questioning/ disillusioned about their prospective husband's behaviour at these "batchelor parties" . And I think that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

IMO too many females are going along with this and trying to be "cool" when they don't really feel good about it.

 

So there needs be be cultural shift and more females need to stand up for what they feel is right for them.

 

Rant over.

 

I hope we hear back from the OP soon....

 

Arieswoman

 

I usually agree with everything you say, but there are a ton of threads on men accepting all sorts of unacceptable behavior from their girlfriends and wives so as not to be called "controlling" or not cool.

 

It was NOT acceptable the way this all came down, but is it acceptable for women to go out dressed in their sexiest outfits, pour down drinks that other men buy them, dance groin to groin over and over with random men, and then call it just good old girl fun????

 

My point is there is abuse of these type outings by BOTH sexes. And in books on infidelity or relationships many say that other than the workplace, these "separate: vacations, and GNO AND BNO ARE THE BREEDING GROUNDS FOR SOMETHING BAD TO HAPPEN.

 

This has nothing to do with women standing up for their rights. It has to do with her fiancé making some stupid choices. We all know that there are those that reconcile from serial cheaters, and there are those that divorce over a ONS. OP will have to make that choice on this one, but this is not a gender issue. If you do not think things like this and worse do not happen at bachelorette parties you are mistaken

[Sanman]

Wow you think it's about the money? It's about what else did he do with a hooker. The money spent is incidental I'd think.

Did he get a bj in the other room? Did they take turns fckng the pro in another room? Possibilities are endless as to what happened.

 

Sure one lap dance is different than a 2 year affair but they are about to get married and if boundary issues are happening now what's to expect down the line when life gets really challenging?

 

And this notion that "she agreed to let him go to a stag with strippers..." Have you ever had to tell a man, your partner, a man who is determined to participate in stag behaviour "I don't like that and I really wish you wouldn't partake"? Talk about a futile exercise that almost always ends in the woman being made out to be a "controlling insane freak" and he ends up going anyway but hiding what happened because he knows how you feel.

 

It is about money with strippers, if you don't know how that works. No one is getting a BJ or laid for $40. If spent spent $400 or $4000, then evidence might suggest something more happened. Maybe he did spend more, maybe he didn't. My point is that was is presented by the fiancee and the brother do not mesh, but we don't know who is being creative and who is being honest. The default position seems to be that the brother is telling the truth when the chances are 50/50.

 

As for telling a man not to participate in stag behaivior, who says he is hellbent? I have participated in multiple bachelor parties with my wife's knowledge and consent. My wife has been to multiple bachelorette parties as well. Strippers have been present at both. Hell, I have called her from the strip club. The point here is that I have a relationship based in honesty. If she was uncomfortable with something I would not do it. If you feel that you can't have an honest conversation with a man about that, either you have a problem openly communicating your feelings or he has a problem of not valuing your feelings. Either way, having a body part rubbed in your face is not the real issue. Who said he was hellbent on going? It seems as if he was open about going and she did not tell him that she would be upset if he went. That is a communication breakdown. What he did would not be a big deal in my relationship as it is expected that if I am going to a strip club, I may partake in a lap dance. I have chosen not to on occasion, but that was more a personal decision than anything else.

 

The thing that no one seems to be acknowledging is context. The women are there to make money. Setting up an appt and then no one tipping them is somewhat rude. Paying for a dance for yourself or the groom is a matter of etiquette in these situations. Getting 10 lap dances is someone going a little wild. It happens and that can be a problem.

[Sanman]

SKP I support you 100%

 

I had a look back through Loveshack and there are 5 threads on variations of this topic.

 

So at least 5 females out there are very upset/distraught/questioning/ disillusioned about their prospective husband's behaviour at these "batchelor parties" . And I think that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

IMO too many females are going along with this and trying to be "cool" when they don't really feel good about it.

 

So there needs be be cultural shift and more females need to stand up for what they feel is right for them.

 

Rant over.

 

I hope we hear back from the OP soon....

 

No everyone needs to stand up for what is right for them and feel free to communicate within the confines of a romantic relationship. That is just a healthy dynamic.

 

There does need to be a cultural shift, but it goes both ways. I am happy to let go of stag parties if women let go of men paying for dates and wanting engagement rings. Hell a few more of them could go ahead and propose. I could use a shiny new Rolex to show off to the boys about how special I am to my woman.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Sanman,

 

This all went down in a hotel room in Vegas. Neither you, nor I, nor the OP or anyone here reading have any idea how much money was dropped that night or for what. So you really don't need to educate me on the premise of prostitution as I understand it all too well. Most do, hence the uncertainty of what happened. Did I mention this went down in a hotel room in Vegas?

 

 

As per not being able to communicate with a man to ask for what one needs, the conversation about attending a sketchy stag with a 26 year old male vs one in his 30's and 40's is very different. Being a woman in my mid 40's I gravitate towards the type of man who no longer finds the appeal in strip clubs/lap dances. In fact, my ex fiancé and I decided early on there would be no need for bachelor/ette parties since we both found strip culture sad and pathetic and it was so not who we were so why start with that a few weeks before our wedding?Relationships before that in our 30's, same thing.

 

Not the same conversation when you are in your 20's like the OP and her fiancé. So unless you've been in a relationship with a man Sanman, you really don't know what it's like to "fight a guy with the best intentions" on that topic.

[Sunkissedpatio]

 

There does need to be a cultural shift, but it goes both ways. I am happy to let go of stag parties if women let go of men paying for dates and wanting engagement rings. Hell a few more of them could go ahead and propose. I could use a shiny new Rolex to show off to the boys about how special I am to my woman.

 

The fact that you would equate getting an engagement ring or a guy paying for a date to doing god knows what with hookers at a stag in a hotel room is very telling.

 

I'm going to go ahead and presume you were just trying to be funny, because no one in their right mind would take that comment seriously.

[Sanman]

Sanman,

 

This all went down in a hotel room in Vegas. Neither you, nor I, nor the OP or anyone here reading have any idea how much money was dropped that night or for what. So you really don't need to educate me on the premise of prostitution as I understand it all too well. Most do, hence the uncertainty of what happened. Did I mention this went down in a hotel room in Vegas?

 

 

As per not being able to communicate with a man to ask for what one needs, the conversation about attending a sketchy stag with a 26 year old male vs one in his 30's and 40's is very different. Being a woman in my mid 40's I gravitate towards the type of man who no longer finds the appeal in strip clubs/lap dances. In fact, my ex fiancé and I decided early on there would be no need for bachelor/ette parties since we both found strip culture sad and pathetic and it was so not who we were so why start with that a few weeks before our wedding?Relationships before that in our 30's, same thing.

 

Not the same conversation when you are in your 20's like the OP and her fiancé. So unless you've been in a relationship with a man Sanman, you really don't know what it's like to "fight a guy with the best intentions" on that topic.

 

I agree, we don't know how much money was dropped or what did or did not happen. That is my point. Yet we have escalated from one lap dance to musings of possible satanic orgies. All she can really do is choose to trust him or not, the rest is just obsessing over what ifs.

 

As for not knowing what it is like to fight a guy over the topic, I have been a guy in my 20s and there was never a need for my wife to fight me when we were both in our 20s. The idea that all men need to be fought on that topic is silly in itself. Not all men are unreasonable on the topic and those that are may simply have different values from that particular woman. No reason to fight.

[Satu]

Someone close to me spent their stag/bachelor party, walking for a week around the Isle of Skye, and climbing its mountains with his closest friends.

 

He came back looking fit, lean, and very happy.

 

No need for strippers or any other exercises in tasteless vulgarity.

 

Sorry OP, your fiancee is an immature idiot.

 

 

 

Take care.

[Sanman]

The fact that you would equate getting an engagement ring or a guy paying for a date to doing god knows what with hookers at a stag in a hotel room is very telling.

 

I'm going to go ahead and presume you were just trying to be funny, because no one in their right mind would take that comment seriously.

 

I like how this went from a lap dance to hookers in the hotel room blowing people left and right.

 

Stag nights, paying for dates, and engagement rings are all rituals of tradition left over from times past. Get rid of one, get rid of them all. I find the notion of a woman who makes more than a man asking him for an expensive trinket equally as repulsive as a man who blames his testicles as a biological imperative to cheat. It is about social convention and learning to question those conventions. We all pick and choose what stays and goes as a society. The reasons for marriage as a social norm have changed, yet we hang on to so much archaic tradition. A marriage of equals based on mutual happiness should not require one to prove themselves to the other through monetary exchange. Either you step into a marriage as equals or he is the traditional male that provides for you, stag parties and all. The in between mostly makes us all hypocrites.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Sanman

[Satu]

I like how this went from a lap dance to hookers in the hotel room blowing people left and right.

 

Stag nights, paying for dates, and engagement rings are all rituals of tradition left over from times past. Get rid of one, get rid of them all. I find the notion of a woman who makes more than a man asking him for an expensive trinket equally as repulsive as a man who blames his testicles as a biological imperative to cheat. It is about social convention and learning to question those conventions. We all pick and choose what stays and goes as a society. The reasons for marriage as a social norm have changed, yet we hang on to so much archaic tradition.

 

We are free to change those traditions in our own lives, as we see fit.

 

This can be seen most clearly, in humanist marriage ceremonies, where the couple write their own vows.

 

So take and reject traditions according to your own preference.

 

If you want to buy a ring, buy one. If you don't, don't buy one.

 

Nobody is oppressing you

[Sunkissedpatio]

It's not that all men need to be fought on it, it's that a lot do. Your sole behaviour is not the experience of a lot of women who do need to fight their men on it.

 

And worrying about "what ifs" is exactly what that situation lends itself to. I don't think if your wife went back to a male coworker's apartment to do work together and showed up at home at 3 am smelling of booze, telling you to go ahead and trust her that they were just working and to not focus on the "what ifs" would cut it for you.

 

As much as we like to think we trust our partners, certain situations just naturally lead to "what if" thinking. Spending an evening with hookers and a bunch of drunk men is one of those situations.

[Sanman]

We are free to change those traditions in our own lives, as we see fit.

 

This can be seen most clearly, in humanist marriage ceremonies, where the couple write their own vows.

 

So take and reject traditions according to your own preference.

 

If you want to buy a ring, buy one. If you don't, don't buy one.

 

Nobody is oppressing you

 

Not feeling oppressed, just mentioning that it is all social convention. However, picking and choosing is what leads to most fights as most people like to pick and choose in their favor.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I like how this went from a lap dance to hookers in the hotel room blowing people left and right.

.

 

We already established the definition of a hooker many pages back. You said yourself the more you pay the more you get. What do you call that? Mother Theresa? No. Hookers. It's what they are.

[Sanman]

It's not that all men need to be fought on it, it's that a lot do. Your sole behaviour is not the experience of a lot of women who do need to fight their men on it.

 

And worrying about "what ifs" is exactly what that situation lends itself to. I don't think if your wife went back to a male coworker's apartment to do work together and showed up at home at 3 am smelling of booze, telling you to go ahead and trust her that they were just working and to not focus on the "what ifs" would cut it for you.

 

As much as we like to think we trust our partners, certain situations just naturally lead to "what if" thinking. Spending an evening with hookers and a bunch of drunk men is one of those situations.

 

:lmao:

 

I am laughing because my wife rolled in at 1am smelling of booze last night after being out with male and female co-workers for a ballgame. Could something have happened? Sure. Do I trust her and not worry that she is lying to me? Yup. Worrying about is not going to make a cheater stop cheating if that is what is in their heart. A little leeway won't make an honest person start either.

[Robert]

We'll close this up until the threadstarter returns to avoid any further hijacking of their thread.

 

Thanks,

~6