Fiance got a lap dance WITH touching at friend's bachelor party...

[Gemma1]

Telling the OP that "she's a bit crazy" isn't her reality and isn't helpful.

 

OP, it seems from what you have posted that you have forgiven him and have decided to move forward.

 

Good luck x

 

When you use quotes, you should actually be quoting. Otherwise you should use --> '

 

I specifically said her REACTION is a bit crazy.

 

And as of last night she was still screaming and crying at him over this. I'm sincerely glad they've cleared this up and seem to have reconnected...but the whole situation is still really crazy and doesn't bode well for their relationship. They are clearly young and inexperienced and one day he's going to look back on this and think "why didn't I see the warning signs?"

 

But hey, that's just my opinion.

[CarrieT]

And then something unexpected happened - we made love twice and it was pretty darn amazing as I felt very connected with him.

That is known as "hysterical bonding" and is far from unexpected or amazing. We've seen it lots with people who are dealing with infidelity in some regards.

[elaine567]

It is sorta like telling your child he can have a candy bar when over at his friend's house... and then freaking out later upon learning that there was SUGAR in that candy bar!! (and then scolding the kid AFTER the fact)

 

The difference being the kid is just a kid, he doesn't know any better, the fiancé is a grown man.

[JewelD]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies. We had a long talk last night - half screaming match and half crying. I think it's safe to say he is incredibly remorseful about the whole thing and didn't once try to justify his actions with the old bachelor party excuse. He felt that I had every right to be mad and has basically felt like a piece of crap the entire week. So in the context of our relationship we are together in the fact that he crossed the line. Then he admitted he cried last night and was at a major low point because he thought I was going to end things with him. And started tearing up right in front of me. It was then I knew that maybe I've taken this too far. I think we both agree he screwed up and I have every right to have been upset - but maybe I took this too far in light of the fact that he's never even come close to doing anything questionable with another woman and never once in five years has he shown any disrespect to me. I guess THAT is what I meant when I said he has been the perfect guy. I don't literally mean perfect - he has his flaws and we've had our fair share of fights - but I meant the level of respect he has shown for me literally has been pretty darn perfect and that's why this whole thing was so weird.

 

After the argument was over we went out to dinner, hung out in our new back yard, and took a bath while we talked about everything openly. And then something unexpected happened - we made love twice and it was pretty darn amazing as I felt very connected with him.

 

So no - he's not off the hook by any means. He still touched a stripper - but I think at this point he feels bad enough about it.

 

To everyone that has been asking - we are only 26. I just finished school and started my career 9 months ago, and he just started his first real job this year too. That was kinda what I wanted to happen before we got engaged. JI don't think five years is a long courtship when you're our age and trying to get your careers up and running.

 

All that drama just so you could give him some nookie a couple days later. Oh, he's certainly off the hook now. and if you continue to hold it over his head like he's a dog that needs to be popped with a rolled up newspaper, you'll make things worse for the relationship.

 

Recognize the difference between a man being sorry for what he did and a man telling you what you want to hear. I'm sure he was just as confused about your boundaries as other posters were, but he understands you're not acting like a reasonable person so he'll say and do whatever he needs to in order to get you to shut up. and it worked. And he got some nookie. Will this be the end of his stripper touching forever? Highly unlikely. But it will be the end of you hearing about it.

 

You should sit down and figure out your own boundaries. If him touching a stripper was the equivalent to him cheating with a random woman at a bar, I just can't imagine him saying sorry would be enough for you. Or that you would sleep with him again so quickly.

[Lois_Griffin]

You didn't draw that line, though. For you to be this upset about a lapdance, you should have laid out clear ground rules. He's just a man, not a mind reader. People are not put on this Earth to please us 24/7. And it's very hard to do when you're not clear on what you want from them.

Well I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.

 

Does she REALLY have to tell a grown ass ADULT that touching another woman's' breasts or ass isn't acceptable to her? Really?

 

If the guy is that learning challenged that he needs his fiancee to TELL him it's naughty to touch other women's jiggly bits, then I'm going to also assume that this guy has to wear a helmet out in public.

 

Me, personally? I wouldn't choose this hill to die on.

 

OP, at first you said his brother claimed that your fiancee was the ONLY one to get a dance. In a subsequent post, you're now quoting the brother as saying a FEW of the guys got dances.

 

Why is his story changing?

[elaine567]

OP, at first you said his brother claimed that your fiancee was the ONLY one to get a dance. In a subsequent post, you're now quoting the brother as saying a FEW of the guys got dances.

 

Why is his story changing?

Supposedly according to the brother no married/engaged people (apart from the bachelor and the OP's fiance) got lap dances, only the single ones did, I presume.

Edited September 17, 2016 by elaine567
fixed quote

[JewelD]

Well I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here.

 

Does she REALLY have to tell a grown ass ADULT that touching another woman's' breasts or ass isn't acceptable to her? Really?

 

If the guy is that learning challenged that he needs his fiancee to TELL him it's naughty to touch other women's jiggly bits, then I'm going to also assume that this guy has to wear a helmet out in public.

 

Me, personally? I wouldn't choose this hill to die on.

 

OP, at first you said his brother claimed that your fiancee was the ONLY one to get a dance. In a subsequent post, you're now quoting the brother as saying a FEW of the guys got dances.

 

Why is his story changing?

 

Is it also not naughty to let a woman rub her ass on him? Because OP didn't care about that. That's my point.

 

That's like saying, "you can have a blowjob" but getting mad when you find out the woman tickled his balls. One is a bit more invasive than the other and it's being allowed.

[Gloria25]

The difference being the kid is just a kid, he doesn't know any better, the fiancé is a grown man.

 

He's not a grown man...he's 26. I just finished getting broken up with a 26 yr old cuz, IMO, he felt like I was trying to tie him down.

 

Most marriages, in this day/age, have better chances of surviving if the marriage takes place past late 20's (i.e. 28 and beyond), and the conduct of the OPs fiance and the 26yr old guy I was seeing represents that.

 

I've seen some posts here about where people say the OP should have laid out "rules" for this guy. No, that's the last thing you want to do...especially with a guy his age. My 26 yr old guy? I wasn't even laying out any rules. I simply expected behavior that was "normal" when you are setting up a day/time to meet as FWBs...he took it as me trying to control him. I suggested moving in upon his roommate leaving, him finishing up school/bar exam and sorta in a "limbo" state, and cuz IMO, it would be cheaper and more convenient for us to date (also I heard of someone I knew doing it with a 23 yr old) - and, he took it as me trying to tie him down, marry him, or something.

 

So no, "rules" are the last thing you need to be laying down. If he doesn't have the maturity to conduct himself in a way that a reasonable/average person would, then maybe you need to hold back on marriage and allow him to grow up, or call this off altogether.

 

I'm still here scratching my head why my 26yr old took so much issue with simply setting up a meet when my 42yr old FWB and I did it with so much ease - only via communication with e-mails once or twice a week.

 

But, see, just like with my 26 yr old, I think with the OP's fiance, it's not just poor judgement, immaturity, and/or 20yr old rebellion. I think other stuff is going on with him, and like a child, it manifests itself in passive/aggressive and possibly subconscious bad behavior.

 

In my case, I believe my 26yr old guy still has ties with his ex. I think he wanted the door open to date others (which hello, we're FWBs, why would he not simply tell me that). So, he probably felt being punctual with me and/or making official time with me implied we were more serious - when he wanted to keep his options open. My 26yr old guy also is in transition. He just graduated from school, needs to pay off his student loans, has bills, not sure if he wants to return back home - and all that stress probably did not make him feel like being attached to any woman - even just going steady without marriage. I mean, like me with all the stress I'm having, I have moments where I can't even get horny. I can't relax to even have sex...so, imagine him with all this on his mind.

 

In the OPs case. He's 26. He probably wants more time being "free" and isn't quite ready for marriage - no matter how great the OP may be.

 

So, moving on...no, a stripper isn't gonna destroy this. And, maybe he genuinely made a one time mistake. But, strippers, bachelor parties or not, if they are gonna get married IMO, six months of premarital counseling is seriously needed. Premarital counseling by a professional will hopefully raise issues like finances, kids, and whether or not he thinks putting himself in a risky situation where infidelity could take place is what your average Joe would do to a fiance/wife/gf/SO.

[Lois_Griffin]

Not to get too side tracked here, but there is a flip side to this whole thing.

 

Those women are giving men the kind of show that men like. We love your bodies and your curves and your sexy attitudes. Hell, if more WIVES gave their man shows like that at home, strip clubs would go out of business. But it's YOU wives who think it's degrading and disgusting..so most of you don't do it. Even though you KNOW we like it.

 

Happens all the time with porn. Too many wives take the stance that porn is disgusting and should be forbidden because it's giving men unrealistic fantasies, and men only want what they see in porn.

 

In actually, porn is basically just showing men what men are ALREADY fantasizing about! Believe me...we don't need to see a video to get new ideas. We start having those ideas from about age 12.

 

Same thing applies. if more wives gave it to their man they way their man WANTS it.... bye bye laptop.

 

Just saying...

LOL.

 

Don't know what color the air is on YOUR planet, but what most men see in porn nowadays is a 100 pound woman with DD breasts and bleached blond hair who wants no foreplay, lives to give BJs, wants lots of anal sex with well hung studs using only spit as lube, fake moans throughout the entire pounding, and has all kinds of fake orgasms while she "squirts" the saline solution she injected with a turkey baster.

 

Yeah, that's what every wife wants to emulate in the bedroom.

[Lois_Griffin]

Is it also not naughty to let a woman rub her ass on him? Because OP didn't care about that. That's my point.

 

That's like saying, "you can have a blowjob" but getting mad when you find out the woman tickled his balls. One is a bit more invasive than the other and it's being allowed.

I do get your point and you're not wrong, but at the same time, the 'classic' lap dance usually entails a guy who has to keep his arms at his side while the stripper entices him. If he doesn't he usually gets his ass thrown out of the bar.

 

In this instance, they were both going on the assumption that the same rules applied. However, the guy isn't learning challenged and knew those were the OPs limitations for a lap dance.

 

This is jut a simple case of being given an inch and taking a yard.

[JewelD]

I do get your point and you're not wrong, but at the same time, the 'classic' lap dance usually entails a guy who has to keep his arms at his side while the stripper entices him. If he doesn't he usually gets his ass thrown out of the bar.

 

In this instance, they were both going on the assumption that the same rules applied. However, the guy isn't learning challenged and knew those were the OPs limitations for a lap dance.

 

This is jut a simple case of being given an inch and taking a yard.

 

Whether his hands were at his side or not, she's rubbing her body on his. There was always going to be some level of touching, whether or not his actual hands were involved. and they weren't in a bar, they were in a hotel, can't get kicked out of your own room.

 

How would he have known her specific limitations for a lap dance if they never discussed it? She didn't even tell him beforehand that he could get a lap dance but she was okay with that part.

 

He said he was going to a bachelor party in Vegas and she said sure. So she really gave him a yard but only expected him to take an inch.

 

Given her reaction, she would have been better off telling him not to go.

[Poutrew]

LOL.

 

Don't know what color the air is on YOUR planet, but what most men see in porn nowadays is a 100 pound woman with DD breasts and bleached blond hair who wants no foreplay, lives to give BJs, wants lots of anal sex with well hung studs using only spit as lube, fake moans throughout the entire pounding, and has all kinds of fake orgasms while she "squirts" the saline solution she injected with a turkey baster.

 

Yeah, that's what every wife wants to emulate in the bedroom.

 

Oy! Now I understand why I kept getting those goggle eyed stares from my older female relatives when I pulled out the turkey baster at the gathering last November...

[Sunkissedpatio]

Personally, I wouldn't want to go though marrying a man so weak he felt "pressured" by his mates to do things with prostitutes right before he was about to marry me. That is what happened, strippers take off their clothes and spin on a pole then dance on your lap and then go away, prostitutes do what was described in the OP.

 

Someone that weak does not interest me for a long time partnership. Furthermore, this notion that you have to lay down "rules for a man" before he heads off to his bachelor party is even less appealing to me. I'm not his mother and I don't want to marry a rebellious child who needs to get away with things I don't agree with. I'd like to think I am marrying a man who is likeminded and would find this whole orgy scenario not only inappropriate but unacceptable to engage in while about to marry the love of his life. Pressure from friends or not. He wanted this, make no mistake about that. The "friends pressured me card" is pulled out when they know they are doing something you will DEFINITELY disapprove of and they want anyway.

 

I strongly believe in this case, he also got a bj if not more. BLECHHHH!

[jen1447]

That's like saying, "you can have a blowjob" but getting mad when you find out the woman tickled his balls.

 

LMAO!

 

Eminently quotable.

[Driver]

There's no way he got a blow job. I don't think he would ever take it that far. But thanks for planting that image in my head. :-P

 

Funny because we did go through premarital counseling - it was kind of a thing I wanted to do because my parents are divorced, so I've tried to take my time and be really smart about things. We are very close and have always had an honest relationship. That's why this is so surprising to me. :-/ Interesting thing is, we never talked about infidelity or temptation in counseling. Because we only talked about things that are of current issue to us and that had never been an issue. In our five years together we've talked about money, religion, kids, sex, lifestyle, health - and we are pretty compatible on all of those things. We never talked extensively about opposite gender relationships and cheating because that hasn't been an issue with us. Maybe that's just my naivety.

[Driver]

It's a weird feeling. Last night I could see how busted up he is over this and I felt like we bonded and came to an understanding. This morning I feel like there's no way I will go back to the spitting mad phase - but, right or wrong, this certainly put a damper on the engagement excitement and romance, that's for sure.

 

I wish I could talk to my friends and family about this. I always talk to them openly about my relationship, but this is the one thing I wouldn't want to tell them because I know it makes my fiancé look really bad and THEY might never see him the same way again either.

 

God. Why did he have to go off and do this? I see both sides. I see the side that boys will be boys and we could laugh about this in the future, a slap on the wrist kind of thing. However there's the other side - that he's a man who acted like a complete jerk and groped a stripped at a friend's bachelor party 1 month into our engagement, supposedly the happiest time of our relationship. Huge blow. Low and disrespectful. That's how I think I see it - even after really considering all of your opinions - and my fiancé seems to think so too. He hasn't once made an excuse; all I have heard repeatedly from him is that he completely screwed up and I don't think he even sees the "boys will be boys" argument. Anyway I understand that 80% of you don't think this is a deal breaker. I don't think it is a deal breaker either, but I am not entirely sure it won't cause long term damage. only hope that time will heal, because I want to get back where we were.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Funny because we did go through premarital counseling - it was kind of a thing I wanted to do because my parents are divorced, so I've tried to take my time and be really smart about things. We are very close and have always had an honest relationship. That's why this is so surprising to me. :-/ Interesting thing is, we never talked about infidelity or temptation in counseling. Because we only talked about things that are of current issue to us and that had never been an issue. In our five years together we've talked about money, religion, kids, sex, lifestyle, health - and we are pretty compatible on all of those things. We never talked extensively about opposite gender relationships and cheating because that hasn't been an issue with us. Maybe that's just my naivety.

 

 

Aww I'm sorry to plant that image in your head, I just can't see how that whole "orgy scenario" only ended up in "light touching" but you can't change that now so best to not think about it anymore I suppose...

 

The irony is that some men have their coloured pasts, they have been with women that perhaps had more action than a stripper would and yet the idea of a man I am about to marry celebrating the new journey we are to embark on by putting himself in a skanky environment to do god knows what a week or weeks before we spend the rest of our lives together would be no different than giving him a free pass for a night, a week before we met up at the altar.

 

There is something so basically wrong with the whole idea of a bachelor party that involves doing things with prostitutes/strippers that I just can't compute the whole thing. And trust me, Im no puritan...but I digress on that point. It is part of some social circles' customs and he is quite young....

 

That's great and important that you insisted on couple's counselling before you marry. It's important to learn tools and figure out best communication tactics while things are good, not at the time of the imminent split.

 

Guess there isn't so much to discuss on infidelity itself since that could come from the most unsuspecting person (I know THAT all too well ) but maybe do spend some time talking about boundaries and what is acceptable and what is not. You don't want to spend your married days babysitting a man so that he makes the right choices, you'd hope that you could be on the same page and make decisions independently that are not going to impact each other negatively.

 

For example: a good topic to iron out before marriage is how do you handle new friends of the opposite sex? How do you handle interactions with coworkers of the opposite sex? What is appropriate, professional behaviour what is not (emails, texts, meet-ups for lunch one-on-one, meeting for drinks after work without letting partners know, getting driven home by a coworker and hiding it from your spouse etc.) That talk on boundaries is very important because if there is a situation where you are faced with having to omit or hide events from your partner and the other finds out there should be no surprises if they are upset because the agreement was broken.

 

How do you handle feeling unhappy or feeling like your needs are not being met in the marriage? Do you bottle it all up and confide in a third party behind your spouse's back because "they understand you and your husband wouldn't" or do you make a pact that as uncomfortable as it will be to tell the other "I feel neglected and have been having thoughts about what it would be like to be with other people" is the best course of action always.

 

Things like that.

 

I encourage you to have that discussion and find out where you both stand on that. No marriage is ideal and no two people are going to do what is best for the marriage all the time, but this is a time that is filled with hope and filled with a relatively white canvass where you can draft out the kind of marriage you would both like to be a part of. Put your expectations out there while you can.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Sunkissedpatio

[Gloria25]

There's no way he got a blow job. I don't think he would ever take it that far. But thanks for planting that image in my head. :-P

 

Funny because we did go through premarital counseling - it was kind of a thing I wanted to do because my parents are divorced, so I've tried to take my time and be really smart about things. We are very close and have always had an honest relationship. That's why this is so surprising to me. :-/ Interesting thing is, we never talked about infidelity or temptation in counseling. Because we only talked about things that are of current issue to us and that had never been an issue. In our five years together we've talked about money, religion, kids, sex, lifestyle, health - and we are pretty compatible on all of those things. We never talked extensively about opposite gender relationships and cheating because that hasn't been an issue with us. Maybe that's just my naivety.

 

How long did you do the premarital counseling for? You just got engaged, no? So when did you guys take premarital counseling? Not sure if it was done right.

 

From what you described, maybe you needed a better counselor and/or go back to address this issue.

[TrustedthenBusted]

10 pages over a lap dance? SMH.

[Sunkissedpatio]

Better than 10 pages of a "he cheated, we've been married for five years he says he will never do it again but I can't trust him" thread.

[MJJean]

I do get your point and you're not wrong, but at the same time, the 'classic' lap dance usually entails a guy who has to keep his arms at his side while the stripper entices him. If he doesn't he usually gets his ass thrown out of the bar.

 

In this instance, they were both going on the assumption that the same rules applied. However, the guy isn't learning challenged and knew those were the OPs limitations for a lap dance.

 

This is jut a simple case of being given an inch and taking a yard.

 

But it's ok that he took a yard because he'd never been given a lap dance before, lost his head, and had NO IDEA he was behaving badly because no one ever told him it was inappropriate for a man in a committed relationship to fondle the naughty bits of a sex worker. In fact, he was so unsure what he did was wrong that he lied about it until his brother outed him. Poor lamb.

[MJJean]

There's no way he got a blow job. I don't think he would ever take it that far. But thanks for planting that image in my head. :-P

 

Funny because we did go through premarital counseling - it was kind of a thing I wanted to do because my parents are divorced, so I've tried to take my time and be really smart about things. We are very close and have always had an honest relationship. That's why this is so surprising to me. :-/ Interesting thing is, we never talked about infidelity or temptation in counseling. Because we only talked about things that are of current issue to us and that had never been an issue. In our five years together we've talked about money, religion, kids, sex, lifestyle, health - and we are pretty compatible on all of those things. We never talked extensively about opposite gender relationships and cheating because that hasn't been an issue with us. Maybe that's just my naivety.

 

Last month you wouldn't have thought he'd go to Vegas, leave fingerprints on some strippers nipples and azz, and lie to you until he had no choice but tell the truth. Are you really willing to go by what you think he will and will not do after this?

[Els]

It's a weird feeling. Last night I could see how busted up he is over this and I felt like we bonded and came to an understanding. This morning I feel like there's no way I will go back to the spitting mad phase - but, right or wrong, this certainly put a damper on the engagement excitement and romance, that's for sure.

 

I wish I could talk to my friends and family about this. I always talk to them openly about my relationship, but this is the one thing I wouldn't want to tell them because I know it makes my fiancé look really bad and THEY might never see him the same way again either.

 

God. Why did he have to go off and do this? I see both sides. I see the side that boys will be boys and we could laugh about this in the future, a slap on the wrist kind of thing. However there's the other side - that he's a man who acted like a complete jerk and groped a stripped at a friend's bachelor party 1 month into our engagement, supposedly the happiest time of our relationship. Huge blow. Low and disrespectful. That's how I think I see it - even after really considering all of your opinions - and my fiancé seems to think so too. He hasn't once made an excuse; all I have heard repeatedly from him is that he completely screwed up and I don't think he even sees the "boys will be boys" argument. Anyway I understand that 80% of you don't think this is a deal breaker. I don't think it is a deal breaker either, but I am not entirely sure it won't cause long term damage. only hope that time will heal, because I want to get back where we were.

 

It doesn't matter whether other people are or aren't okay with it IMO. If you feel it's disrespectful, then that's your prerogative, and that's what matters.

 

In your position, I would forgive this once, but only if he puts in the effort to reassure you (no more going to places with strippers, etc).

[Driver]

He was the one who told me everything that happened. The only thing his brother squealed on him about was the fact that he was NOT under pressure to behave this way. My man told me willingly he had a lapdance. When my mind started picturing it I asked him if he touched her and he told me he did. I think he didn't want me to know the entire picture - ie him being the only engaged/married guy to do this and him not being pressured - but he did at least tell me what happened. I will give him that.

 

I agree that it's wrong. I agree I was betrayed. I agree he made a low move that isn't consistent with who I thought he was. However I don't think this is worth ending a great relationship over... Problem is i just have to hope this doesn't permanently affect my view of him.

[Dolfin80]

Hens and Bachelor parties always involve touching strippers private parts.

 

I was on a boat once where 10 hens parties were happening. Those 10 hens got a male stripper each and got to touch their penis, balls nipples, chest, bum. He thrusts his genitals into the hens mouth (with jocks on) and dry humps her.

 

I've also been at strip shows where a stripper puts a banana in her vagina and we could all go up and take a bite....some did and bit it down to her skin level so their mouth is in contact with the vagina.

 

I've also seen a stripper tie a young guy to the chair with chains then do a complete backflip and put her vagina on his mouth. The crowd went wild over this!!! She was very acrobatic!!!

 

Seriously, I don't think you have any idea what strippers do.

 

You sound very innocent.

 

There are hardly no boundaries with strippers they will do anything to get cash.

 

I even know a group of guys who hired a stripper for their bachelors night at a golf course. They each took turns of putting the golf ball into her vagina.

 

Arhhhh Bucks night, they are wet and wild!

 

Whatever you do OP do not get a stripper for your hens because you will die of shock!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 18, 2016 by Dolfin80