Fiance got a lap dance WITH touching at friend's bachelor party...

[jenkins95]

I agree.

 

IMO having strippers/dancers before marriage is, for men, it’s an offense against their bride her beauty, and her dignity. Your wife (or husband) is your number 1 before and after marriage. How can a man claim to love his fiancée and be committed to her while simultaneously going off and enjoying sexual attention from other women for a night?

 

We don’t promise ourselves to our future spouse on the day of our marriage, but many months before when we propose to them/accept their proposition. Faithfulness and commitment don’t start on the wedding day but before—long before. The wedding is just the next step of the journey.

 

Only the OP can decide if she and her fiance are on the same page over this.

 

More common ground. I agree with this.

 

I actually find everything about strip clubs very distasteful and uncomfortable. I spent every second of my own experiences in these clubs feeling embarrassed, intimidated, pressured, uncomfortable and constantly observed.

 

Lots of people are potentially being the exploited - the customers - especially unwitting customers who had no choice because they were part of a group, and of course the girls themselves. Someone is making an awful lot of money somewhere behind the scenes, and it's very unlikely to be the girls themselves. As well as the extortionate prices for "dances", drinks prices are truly crazy. I was charged £70 for three cocktails in Soho from memory.

 

And of course, it puts people, as in the case here, in a false pressured environment, where, if you let your boundaries slip even a millimetre, then something potentially damaging and life-changing like this can occur very easily in the blink of an eye.

 

I kind of wish these places could be banned, but of course, to do so would only serve to drive them further underground.

 

I agree with the poster who played golf and did skydiving. By all means have a great bachelor/hen party.......but stay away from places like this. Why tempt trouble?

[elaine567]

I kind of wish these places could be banned, but of course, to do so would only serve to drive them further underground.

 

I agree with the poster who played golf and did skydiving

 

I don't think Driver's fiancé will get away with no strippers at his own Bachelor party as the precedent has been set here. with his "stags".

 

Even if they do go away playing golf or some other innocent activity, one of the guys will get private "strippers" to come to the room again. This was never about the guys going to strip joints, this was about private "entertainment" in their hotel room.

[jenkins95]

I don't think Driver's fiancé will get away with no strippers at his own Bachelor party as the precedent has been set here. with his "stags".

 

Even if they do go away playing golf or some other innocent activity, one of the guys will get private "strippers" to come to the room again. This was never about the guys going to strip joints, this was about private "entertainment" in their hotel room.

 

This is where Driver's fiance can prove himself to Driver. He can make it very clear to his friends that while he wants a good party, strippers are 100% off the menu. If they are true friends (and presumably they know about the unfortunate incident), then they will respect this.

 

He still has to be prepared for the event that they go ahead anyway. He needs to of course maintain his boundaries (I'm sure he'll have not trouble with this after what happened), but also make sure he has witnesses for every second, ideally with some photographic evidence and is never completely alone with the stripper.

[Lois_Griffin]

But it's ok that he took a yard because he'd never been given a lap dance before, lost his head, and had NO IDEA he was behaving badly because no one ever told him it was inappropriate for a man in a committed relationship to fondle the naughty bits of a sex worker. In fact, he was so unsure what he did was wrong that he lied about it until his brother outed him. Poor lamb.

WTF?

 

I was defending my initial post in this thread to another poster. And that initial post said what yours says - that he's a grown ass adult who shouldn't have to be told what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. But since it was argued that OP was ok with him getting a lap dance but 'hadn't specified that it wasn't ok for him to touch the dancer,' I described it as him being given an inch but taking a yard.

 

I'm not defending the guy.

[Lois_Griffin]

He knows exactly WHY he did it, he just doesn't want to tell YOU, as I guess he knows you would be even more upset with him if he did.

He is just protecting himself here.

LOL. Repeated for truth.

 

He did it because he had a pair of big boobs in his face, there for the touching. There's no deep, dark psychological 'why' to it.

[elaine567]

WTF?

 

I was defending my initial post in this thread to another poster. And that initial post said what yours says - that he's a grown ass adult who shouldn't have to be told what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. But since it was argued that OP was ok with him getting a lap dance but 'hadn't specified that it wasn't ok for him to touch the dancer,' I described it as him being given an inch but taking a yard.

 

I'm not defending the guy.

 

I think MJJean was being sarcastic.

[jenkins95]

LOL. Repeated for truth.

 

He did it because he had a pair of big boobs in his face, there for the touching. There's no deep, dark psychological 'why' to it.

 

Well put! We often don't have to dig too deep for reasons, they are right there in front of our face (quite literally in this case!)

 

This just illustrates again what dangerous environments these are. Even good people, with no intention of cheating, can do something silly in a split second if their guard is momentarily down and temptation is out right in front of us.

[MJJean]

WTF?

 

I was defending my initial post in this thread to another poster. And that initial post said what yours says - that he's a grown ass adult who shouldn't have to be told what's acceptable and what's not acceptable. But since it was argued that OP was ok with him getting a lap dance but 'hadn't specified that it wasn't ok for him to touch the dancer,' I described it as him being given an inch but taking a yard.

 

I'm not defending the guy.

 

Totally being sarcastic.

 

I think MJJean was being sarcastic.

 

Yup!

 

Driver, you are aware that many young women marry men very similar to their fathers, either by conscious choice or without realizing it. If you're in any kind of therapy, that might be something you want to explore.

 

Why did he do it? Because he wanted to.

 

Has he learned anything from this? Maybe. But what did he learn? Did he learn that touching another woman is unacceptable under any circumstance or did he learn that he can behave badly, cry a bit, have sex, and all is well?

 

No, strippers at the bachelor or bachelorette party isn't normal. It's just something that some people allow.

[redtail]

Why did he do it? Because he wanted to.

This.

 

Many people can make promises, the trick is being able to keep them when the circumstances call for it.

[BettyDraper]

I know my dad had an issue with porn when my parents were still together. I remember walking in on him looking at some creepy site, finding porn on the family computer here and there, and then my parents getting into a huge screaming match after I turned on the TV to watch cartoons and a nasty sex flick. I don't think porn has to be that huge of a deal but the way I grew up it was a huge no no, some nasty secret. My parents have been divorced for like 13 years, never stops feeling weird. Also it doesn't help that my dad is some sex maniac and a few months ago I overheard him bragging to my brother in law that when he went to the Phillipines he had FIVE different prostitutes throughout his week there and had sex with them sometimes two at a Time. Ha. That's a whole different issue entirely.

 

This makes a lot of sense. Your views on sex work come from seeing your father's behavior. The way your father treats women is also the reason you expect your fiance to be perfect. I wish more fathers would think of how their relationships with women affect their daughters.

I take a very hard line against infidelity because it was so rampant in my family. My heart goes out to you.

Edited September 19, 2016 by BettyDraper

[Mr. Lucky]

He did it because he had a pair of big boobs in his face, there for the touching.

 

I'm sure the OP wonders what happens next time in a different setting when a new pair of boobs gets in his face? Temptation all around us...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Arieswoman]

Mr Lucky,

 

I'm sure the OP wonders what happens next time in a different setting when a new pair of boobs gets in his face? Temptation all around us...

 

Now I normally quite like your posts, but on this occasion I think you're being really silly.

 

Where on earth in everyday life (outside of a lapdancing club or a mammogram unit) would a man come anywhere close to having a pair of naked boobs shoved in his face?

 

(And even in a mammogram unit they handle them one at a time, not as a pair )

[Mr. Lucky]

(And even in a mammogram unit they handle them one at a time, not as a pair )

 

Having never had a mammogram, I'll defer to your expertise .

 

Where on earth in everyday life (outside of a lapdancing club or a mammogram unit) would a man come anywhere close to having a pair of naked boobs shoved in his face?

 

I didn't specify "naked" .

 

Seriously AW, in my 30 years of happy marriage I've had 3 fairly overt offers of NSA sex, though I long worked in an industry where hook-ups were pretty common. If one is looking for it, as it seems the OP's fiance was that night, trouble is out there...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sunkissedpatio]

This.

 

Many people can make promises, the trick is being able to keep them when the circumstances call for it.

 

So true, and that's what's so scary about love and trust. You kind of have to make the leap in faith and hope that the parachute opens....

[Sunkissedpatio]

We were never not friends Mr Jenkins, we just fundamentally disagreed on a few points but found our way back!

 

I believe in forgiving and giving second chances as well, some things are more forgivable than others and that is a very personal choice. I can see how Driver wants to see how this plays out for her because it isn't so much about the act itself anymore (I can imagine) but more about what you are left with in your own mind to suss out once you discover something unsavoury about the person you love.

 

 

(Do let us know how "loosey goosey" works out in the case of your coworker Jenkins95, they do sound like they have some pretty "loosey-goosey" standards about how to maintain a work cubicle. )

[Driver]

I believe in forgiving and giving second chances as well, some things are more forgivable than others and that is a very personal choice. I can see how Driver wants to see how this plays out for her because it isn't so much about the act itself anymore (I can imagine) but more about what you are left with in your own mind to suss out once you discover something unsavoury about the person you love.

 

THIS, Sunkissedpatio. The pain is no longer about the stripper. It's the aftermath - the thoughts about what this means, if I have anything to worry about, if I can trust him again.

 

Yall are awesome. Thanks for the support.

[Sanman]

THIS, Sunkissedpatio. The pain is no longer about the stripper. It's the aftermath - the thoughts about what this means, if I have anything to worry about, if I can trust him again.

 

Yall are awesome. Thanks for the support.

 

The longer I am married, the more I believe that the mistake was with him being honest rather than about a lap dance. Not that honesty is a bad thing, there are just some things that you are better off not knowing about the person you love because you cant get the picture out of your head. It may mean nothing. Did he throw the Bachelor party and invite the strippers? There is a big difference between finding yourself in an encounter where this happens and actively seeking it out. I have had strippers and bachelor parties offer to have sex with me. I didn't take them up on it. The truth, OP, is he could have done much worse in a private hotel room full of strippers than get a lap dance. Don't lose sight of that in your anger. This is not black or white, but a shade of gray. If you are going to focus on this to the exclusion of all the good things, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have had strippers and bachelor parties offer to have sex with me. I didn't take them up on it. The truth, OP, is he could have done much worse in a private hotel room full of strippers than get a lap dance. Don't lose sight of that in your anger.

 

Don't think anyone, when their partner or spouse acts inappropriately, takes much solace in "it could have been worse"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[road]

Don't think anyone, when their partner or spouse acts inappropriately, takes much solace in "it could have been worse"...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

When they decide to recover that is exactly what they do: it could of been worse.

[Sunkissedpatio]

The truth, OP, is he could have done much worse in a private hotel room full of strippers than get a lap dance.

 

That's the question though...did it get much worse and this is one of those half truths?

 

When people cheat and get caught, they didn't have sex with their affair partner they just "fooled around a bit but then we stopped" Then the truth comes out they'd been having every kind of sex you can imagine for much more than just "once"

 

It's really REALLY hard not to wonder what more happened.

[Sanman]

That's the question though...did it get much worse and this is one of those half truths?

 

When people cheat and get caught, they didn't have sex with their affair partner they just "fooled around a bit but then we stopped" Then the truth comes out they'd been having every kind of sex you can imagine for much more than just "once"

 

It's really REALLY hard not to wonder what more happened.

 

That's the point it is all about the wondering. He didn't get caught, he just openly admitted it. He only tried to get defensive after she got upset. Guilty people don't walk right up and admit an affair. Why is the brother'a word gospel? There was no pressure at the party? Of course their was, strippers are trying to separate you from your money. This show the girls put on, this guy paid for the whole thing while the others guys there told him it was a bad idea? No, they all chipped in. Of course there was social pressure. She is thinking with her heart instead of her head, which is natural. The reason cops are not allowed to entrap people is because what is your idea and what you can get talked into are two different things. If she is not happy, tell him not to go to future stag parties. However, let's not pretend he threw the party and no one else there wanted strippers. This was a social situation and one that guys who are not frequent stripclub goers are unsure how to navigate often. I can guarantee that she will never get the true story as other wives and family members might be upset too.

[Mr. Lucky]

When they decide to recover that is exactly what they do: it could of been worse.

 

Understand what you mean, but I think recovery comes from accepting what really happened, processing how you feel about it and deciding to move forward.

 

When my ex-wife had an affair, I don't recall thinking "at least it wasn't TWO other guys"...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Arieswoman]

SKP, #195

 

That's the question though...did it get much worse and this is one of those half truths?

 

When people cheat and get caught, they didn't have sex with their affair partner they just "fooled around a bit but then we stopped" Then the truth comes out they'd been having every kind of sex you can imagine for much more than just "once"

 

It's really REALLY hard not to wonder what more happened.

 

 

^^^^ this is spot-on and the type of trickle-truth you get from cheaters.

 

sanman #196

 

He didn't get caught, he just openly admitted it.

 

NO, sanman, that isn't correct.

 

He originally lied and said he didn't touch the stripper/dancer, then after she pushed him he admitted it.

 

I can guarantee that she will never get the true story as other wives and family members might be upset too.

 

^^^^ this is exactly the point.

 

If she is not happy, tell him not to go to future stag parties.

 

And how exactly does that solve the problem she has now? The way things are going there may not be a future for them.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Arieswoman

[elaine567]

I can guarantee that she will never get the true story as other wives and family members might be upset too.

 

Agreed.

I guess the brother tried to protect the other married/engaged guys but by doing so he landed the OP's fiancé in bigger trouble.

BUT the morals and actions of the other guys are immaterial, as the OP isn't engaged to one of them.

 

Obviously she doesn't want to be married to a bloke like her father, and she thought she had him, but he has turned out to be made of the same cloth and that is very disappointing for her to say the least.

When given the opportunity to enter into that "murky" world, he grabbed all he could get, with both hands, literally.

[Sanman]

Agreed.

I guess the brother tried to protect the other married/engaged guys but by doing so he landed the OP's fiancé in bigger trouble.

BUT the morals and actions of the other guys are immaterial, as the OP isn't engaged to one of them.

 

Obviously she doesn't want to be married to a bloke like her father, and she thought she had him, but he has turned out to be made of the same cloth and that is very disappointing for her to say the least.

When given the opportunity to enter into that "murky" world, he grabbed all he could get, with both hands, literally.

 

Well, not all he could get. 1 lap dance is the length of a song 3-5 min. What else happened? Did he get one lap dance and have a few drinks and hang back or did he get 10 lap dances? Did his brother and the other guys get 10 lap dances and the fiancee only got one. People are talking about how,bad things are now. The facts seem to be he got one lap dance at a bachelor party they both agreed he could go to and then she got mad, pulled away, and threw his clothes in the diet because he touched the girl that was dancing in his lap. Hardly the stuff of divorces in most cases. However, she has to make peace with the fact that communication was poor on both parts prior to the trip and that all she can do is trust her fiancee about what happened. No one said he went crazy and blew $4000 on the strippers. You aren't getting much for $40.