The inevitable happened

[DKT3]

You've just confirmed my thoughts on your situation as did your husband. You are far too impatient and your therapist is horrible for suggesting you push him.

 

An added problem I see in that conversation is you aren't actually listening to your husband which is obvious by his frustration. .

[merrmeade]

This is going to make a lot of people yell at me I'm sure - but even when I was talking to another guy (not f-ing by the way, though still I admit it was an affair) I feel like I STILL gave more effort into the marriage than he has or ever did. And I'm pretty sure my H would agree.

 

I will always regret the pain I've caused to my H, regardless of whether we stay together or not. I may very well be running, but not because I don't want to face the damage, but because I don't want to repeat history.

 

These two statements contradict each other just like everything you say. Let me get this straight: You had the last affair. Dday was recent and you still had contact with AP. If this correct, it's completely clear to me - and seems so to your BH. It's not about his A 3 years ago. It's not about work you did on the marriage in the past. With Dday this recent AND your continued duplicity, it can only be about what YOU just did to your husband. His reaction is clearly saying his every thought about you and, for example, your possibly going to your mothers, is that HE DOES NOT TRUST you because you have not been trustworthy. That's all.

 

Making yourself the victim, challenging his reaction, bringing up the past is all foul play, selfish, insensitive, blame-shifting plain and simple. You did this. It's fresh. You have to accept his mistrust , bitterness, and excessive need for evidence of your faithfulness.

 

Or you can keep blaming him and feel justified for dealing the final blow.

[alsudduth]

These two statements contradict each other just like everything you say. Let me get this straight: You had the last affair. Dday was recent and you still had contact with AP. If this correct, it's completely clear to me - and seems so to your BH. It's not about his A 3 years ago. It's not about work you did on the marriage in the past. With Dday this recent AND your continued duplicity, it can only be about what YOU just did to your husband. His reaction is clearly saying his every thought about you and, for example, your possibly going to your mothers, is that HE DOES NOT TRUST you because you have not been trustworthy. That's all.

 

Making yourself the victim, challenging his reaction, bringing up the past is all foul play, selfish, insensitive, blame-shifting plain and simple. You did this. It's fresh. You have to accept his mistrust , bitterness, and excessive need for evidence of your faithfulness.

 

Or you can keep blaming him and feel justified for dealing the final blow.

 

How is that a contradiction? that is two separate things. I am not blaming him for me having an affair. I have been doing everything I can to show him I'm sorry for that. Why can't we talk about all the issues in the marriage?

 

I need a break from you guys. I know to take what you all say with a grain of salt, but it's clear to me that you are not here to help. you are here to point out how it doesn't matter what I say or do or feel or relate, you will just find a way to make a WW be horrible and in genuine. I know what my relationship is, I know what I need to figure out.

 

Thank you for the honest feedback.

[understand50]

How is that a contradiction? that is two separate things. I am not blaming him for me having an affair. I have been doing everything I can to show him I'm sorry for that. Why can't we talk about all the issues in the marriage?

 

I need a break from you guys. I know to take what you all say with a grain of salt, but it's clear to me that you are not here to help. you are here to point out how it doesn't matter what I say or do or feel or relate, you will just find a way to make a WW be horrible and in genuine. I know what my relationship is, I know what I need to figure out.

 

Thank you for the honest feedback.

 

Alsudduth,

 

It is perfectly possible that yes you did put "more" into the marriage, even with your EA. I do not doubt that. You do need to decide if you are going to stay of leave. You both having affairs, defiantly shows that there are real issue, past the mundane. Look, both of you are going to have to work hard to make this happen, and if he is not willing, even if he had not had his affair, I could see, and would support you, leaving.

 

Looking at the past and seeing what you gave is self-defeating. Your husband, can never make that up, as you can not undo what you did. You need to decide that a future with him is what you want, and you must BOTH want the same thing. With out this, there can be no reconciliation.

 

As for needing a break, I get it. Love Shack can be a meat grinder, but where else to you get all the opinions you could possibly need or desire? Please keep writing, and only take what you think you need. We all have our own life experiences, and they do not dove tail with yours. We can only give out advise from our vantage point. Its free, so value it as you may. In the end, I think you have gotten more out of Love shack, then you have given, but that is just my observation.

 

As always I wish you luck......

[harrybrown]

Sometimes when you have a broken leg and another health problem, you have to fix the broken leg first before you work on the other health problem.

 

So first, you have to work on the last A, and after that, you work on the other issues.

 

You could try to contact affair recovery. They are online. They might be of help to you and your H.

 

If you want to try, anyway.

 

Hope you find some positive results. I also hope you have outed your affair partner so you are protecting your H over the OM.

[alsudduth]

I went to urgent care this morning as I'm feeling so very overwhelmed with everything. I can't get in with my dr for another week or so. I think my thoughts have been all over the place because I've been fighting my depression for a long time now wanting to believe that I could handle it myself. I can't.

 

I got an anti depressant to start this morning along with some Xanax to get me through until the anti depressant kicks in. I haven't thought clearly in some time. I'm looking forward to getting out of the hole.

 

One thing I want to make clear that I feel you all don't really get, is that just because I'm having these feelings of uncertainty - doesn't mean I have totally given up, or stopped providing to my husband what he needs. I am still NC with OM, I am still trying to be sensitive to his feelings, I am still trying to be there for him, whatever he needs from me. So believe me just because I have these doubts and uncertainty, doesn't mean I've fully just given up on us. I'm just trying to figure my stuff out.

 

My main goals are trying to help my H understand that I realize what my affair has done to him (and I'm not perfect, I'm impatient and anxiety riddled, and scared) while at the same time trying to understand and help my H understand how and why I got to the point of me choosing poorly to have an Affair. I just also happen to KNOW from experience, that if we handle it how we have been - which is me doing all the work to try to repair our relationship (notice I'm not saying me doing all the work to repair the trust he lost in me, that IS on me to do), I will build resentment towards him. I don't want that. I know this affair is my problem, and regardless of what you all think, I am doing my part to show him that I have no intentions of making the same mistake again. In addition to that, I am trying to do my part in letting him know that the past vicious cycle we have continually been in is not going to work for me. For that cycle to break we have to both knowledge and work to keep that from happening. Those are 2 separate goals. 2 separate issues. People are allowed to have more than one goal they are trying to accomplish at times.

 

My having an affair was devastating to him. I get it. I do. I have not lost sight of that or what I need to do to repair that damage. what can I say....I'm a multi tasker.

 

Anyway - I feel like my last post will "confirm" for you all that I'm running. so in an effort to not "run away" I wanted to try one more time to explain where I'm coming from. And please don't tell me that the past has nothing to do with what is happening now. It's not a blame game to tell him how I'm feeling - I usually hate using the term PTSD - but that is a good way to describe what I'm feeling. when I put myself out there to him, my anxiety goes through the roof, I self loath, I withdrawal, and I get very scared about being hurt by him again. Yes I realize that I put myself in this most recent situation, but it doesn't make the issue and feelings I have invalid.

Edited September 27, 2016 by alsudduth

[DKT3]

We had another poster about a year ago in your same situation, she was iffy and upset because her husband wouldn't be physical with her and wasn't doing enough. Just like you I told her she was running. Guess what happened? She asked husband to move out, then proceeded to re-engage with MM for another round of heartbreak.

 

Once the longing for MM gets bad, just like before D-day one tends to focus on what the BS isn't doing, with little focus on what positives they are doing.

[harrybrown]

Do your feelings for the OM outweigh the feelings that you have for your H?

 

How does your H feel about you still being emotionally with the OM?

 

Have you outed the OM to his family to show you are putting your H before the OM?

Edited September 27, 2016 by harrybrown
edit

[alsudduth]

Do your feelings for the OM outweigh the feelings that you have for your H?

 

How does your H feel about you still being emotionally with the OM?

 

Have you outed the OM to his family to show you are putting your H before the OM?

 

I haven't had any contact with the OM since DDay. He also doesn't have a spouse to out him to. he had been separated from his wife for over a year before we even connected. As far as I am aware, she had moved on as well and has a boyfriend prior to him and I being in contact.

 

I also try very hard to not think of the OM. I have tried to not feel any feelings for anyone other than my H. I'm just trying to put OM out of my brain. so no I do not think the feelings for the OM outweigh the feelings for my H. If that was the case, I would have left my H by now.

[understand50]

I haven't had any contact with the OM since DDay. He also doesn't have a spouse to out him to. he had been separated from his wife for over a year before we even connected. As far as I am aware, she had moved on as well and has a boyfriend prior to him and I being in contact.

 

I also try very hard to not think of the OM. I have tried to not feel any feelings for anyone other than my H. I'm just trying to put OM out of my brain. so no I do not think the feelings for the OM outweigh the feelings for my H. If that was the case, I would have left my H by now.

 

alsudduth,

 

I know this past couple of days has been hard, but it will pass. Time will take care of the thoughts of the OM, as long as you want to. We here sometime do not understand, what the truly remorseful WS goes though to try and get back on the straight and narrow. Some believe that a WS can never really change. Your struggle does you credit. We are all different. If no one believes you can not change, then we then subscribe to the idea that no one can recover their moral self out of a affair. There is no chance of reconciliation or redemption. Well there is redemption, you can mend, and become who you would like to be again. You just have to work hard for it. You made a mistake and are taking action to make it right. Keep up the good work. You will get there.

 

I wish you luck....

[merrmeade]

Him: You said you were very hurt when I asked for a divorce initially. That pendulum swings both ways. Probably still hurting over that and it's been three years? I feel like you're pushing me to wrap up my feelings and forgive/forget in what? A month or two? It doesn't work like that.

This was the main point I wanted to make. I think maybe you've forgotten how understanding you were and knew it would take a while. BUt I also think it's his fault that you forgot because, as you said, he sure doesn't communicate.

 

I feel pretty confident saying this because I just read back through all your posts in this thread. Only 3 months ago, you said this:

I understand completely why my husband would expect those things now until I can prove I can be trusted again. I made my bed and now I gotta pay the price for my choices. And that price is to be untrustworthy. The only thing that will fix that is time and honesty and sincere regret of my actions, which is what I intend to do.

...

I am fully aware of the time it is going to take to prove to my husband that I am where I want to be.

 

Then this next paragraph I think is unfortunate because, in his mind, the fact of your cheating is still very fresh and is the reason he's pulled back. You're pressing him in a way that implies more of a recovery than he's had time for.

Me: I feel like I would be less hurt and possibly over it at this point if I felt like you were remorseful for everything that happened, but I don't think you feel like you did anything wrong. I don't know why you even went to counseling. I'm not asking you to forgive and forget after 3 months. I'm only asking you to communicate with me. We have 0 trust and 0 communication in our relationship. If we can't agree to work on at least one of those things, our marriage won't last.

And this next exchange, I think you're in the right about the communication problem. I agree with your counselor that he's been let off the hook. And using your infidelity to punish you with lack of communication is counter-intuitive to me. It's the problem imho. He needs to go to marriage counseling with you to deal with the communication blocks.

Him: Your opinion about how I feel couldn't be more wrong. Which really is an affirmation to me of how you assume the worst of me while pointing your finger at me and accusing me of always thinking the worst of you.

 

Me: Well I guess those are types of problems we find ourselves in when we don't communicate

 

Him: I've said multiple times in the past my opinion of you isn't what you're thinking it is. Obviously you don't remember or don't believe what I say about so if you're not going to believe what I say why say anything about it?

 

Me: Instead of just telling me I'm wrong, how about giving me a clue

 

Him: A clue about what?

 

Me: What your opinion if me is

 

Him: I don't know what my opinion of you is recently

 

Me: If you don't know then how do you know if I'm wrong or not?

 

After a break of talking since I was at an apt:

 

Me: I'm sorry that I seem to be all over the place. I am sorry for all the pain I've caused us. I guess I'm just trying to determine also if staying together is the best answer. ------And go.

In other words, you're both all over the place, but you need to ask him to step up to the plate on the counseling and do the work with you.

 

But you STILL have to be patient and loving

[merrmeade]

I can understand your discouragement actually. He is not working at the R the way you are. Agreed. Yet, his mistrust and wound are still clearly VERY fresh, and it's surprising you wouldn't realize that his immediate thought when you ask to go to your mother's is whether you'll see OM.

 

The way he seems to deal is pulling back, not engaging, not sharing. It's his way but bad in all ways for the R and for the marriage though you can't nag or berate him for this. You can only ask withOUT rancor and try to convey how important it is to YOU. You are not going to get through imo with anger. But I do think you can insist that it is vital to the survival of your marriage, which you wish - hope - is still important to him.

 

Has he ever heard of the 180? If that's what he's doing, then he's protecting himself and unwilling to commit. It means he's waiting to see what you will do and if it's worth it to him to try again. However, I don't think this is it because he gives you little snippets every now and then, teases into how he's feeling.

 

Doesn't your therapist give you questions to ask him and help for these conversations? That phrase up there "It's important to me" was one mine used to stress - rather than "you must" or "I need for you to."

 

Also, just want to say your posts have been like a diary and provided an unusual record of what's been happening. However, the timeline further back is sometimes hard to keep straight. If you could just list in chronological order and duration of his EA, the counseling and your EA, your references to the past would be more meaningful.

[alsudduth]

and it's surprising you wouldn't realize that his immediate thought when you ask to go to your mother's is whether you'll see OM.

 

I did think about that. That's why I asked him how he would feel about me going to my mom's. I wanted to open the lines of communication about it so that he could tell me what I can do while there to ease his discomfort.

 

Bad on my part to get irritated by his response instead of remembering my patience....I see that now.

 

Also, just want to say your posts have been like a diary and provided an unusual record of what's been happening. However, the timeline further back is sometimes hard to keep straight. If you could just list in chronological order and duration of his EA, the counseling and your EA, your references to the past would be more meaningful.

 

In late 2012 my H stopped wearing his ring. He had started going to the gym and told me that wearing his ring was uncomfortable while lifting weights.

Other times he told me that it hurt his finger while he was working, and other times he told me he misplaced it. This went on over the course of a year.

 

In early 2013 we went to a VW camp out (He restores old VW's and there is a big camp out every year we used to go to) My sister in law came and brought her best friend that she wanted us all to meet. From the moment she met my H she had her eyes set on him. She was never more than 10 feet from where he was. I asked my sister in law if I should be worried or if I was over reacting by how much she was hovering over him, and she agreed that it was weird to her as well....they had wandered off for a walk (I'd like to point out here that about 20 mins before they disappeared I had asked my H to take a walk with me and he said it was too cold) My sister in law confronted them and went off on her friend. She swore it was nothing, that she would never do anything like that, blah blah blah. We wrote it off as I didn't want to ruin the camp trip.

 

We came home from the camping trip and the girl added us all to social media, shortly after I realized that her and my H were messaging each other non stop. I asked to read the messages and they were definitely flirty on her part - I told him to be careful because she liked him, and he blew me off.

 

In Feb or March 2013 I found out that the girl had asked my H to meet her in secret. He said that he told her no, that maybe if he wasn't married it would be different. At that point I told him that I was uncomfortable with the amount of interaction they were having. I didn't want to be seen as the wife that tells her H who he can and can't talk to since I have friends that are male. I wanted to trust him. He said that he would scale back how much he was talking to her.

 

in April or May, I realized that while they weren't talking as much at home, they were online talking all day while he was at work. I contacted her and told her that it was inappropriate how much she was interacting with my H. She said she was sorry.

 

A few weeks maybe later, he came home and was talking to her on the phone, "Just to see how she was doing" - this is where I have to stop and say that over the course of all this time (from him stop wearing his ring to now) I had asked him multiple times throughout if we were ok. If there was a problem in our relationship, tried to communicate with him, but all I got was "we are good" , " it's in your mind", "you are just being insecure"

 

I got so upset because him neglecting me if you will of attention was a big sore point in our entire marriage not just over the course of that year. So for him to call some girl "just to see how she's doing" when he had a neglected wife at home (He told me once that it annoyed him when I would call him during the day while he was working because it was an interruption) was so disrespectful and hurtful to me. He hugged me while I cried and told me he would stop talking to her.

 

She ended up blocking me on social media and reached out to him in private. Where they continued talking. In June on father's day, I asked to use his phone to take a picture of the gift our kids made him, and it was open to a conversation from her, which confirmed that they were still talking. He said he was going to tell me but didn't want to ruin the weekend.

 

Around the same time, I had asked again if he was unhappy and if we were ok. He blew up and told me he was tired of dealing with my insecurities. So at that time I started seeing an IC thinking maybe it was me. Maybe it was all in my head.

 

A few weeks later I came home from a counseling apt, and my husband got a text message. I was closest to his phone, and so I opened it to find a picture of her (not crude just her face) with a heart in the text message. I was devastated. At that point I told my sister in law what had been going on. She blew up on her friend and told her to stay away from her family.

 

I confronted the girl again and told her to please stop talking to my husband.

 

Towards the end of the summer there was a VW show he wanted to go to in CA (Where this girl lived) A friend that was supposed to go with him backed out, and we got in a fight because I told him I was uncomfortable with him being alone in the same city as her....he blew up at me. so I told him to go, that I wouldn't keep him from that, I was just telling him that I was uncomfortable about it. So he went.

 

A few weeks after he came back - I found out that she had kicked her husband out....and two days after that (Sep of 2013, I remember clearly it was a few days before our anniversary) he told me he no longer wanted to be married to me.

 

 

That is the timeline of his EA (PA? I'll never know) I'll post in a minute about how my A went down, marriage counseling etc....

[alsudduth]

After he told me he wanted a divorce, I went to my mom's for a few days. When I came back he went to my counselor with me and said he felt that he was never meant to be married. She advised us to have a plan in place before telling the kids.

 

He moved into the spare room and we just told the kids that we were dealing with some adult stuff and needed some time to figure it out, and that we loved them.

 

In Nov of 2013 I got a msg from a friend in HS that I had gone on a couple dates with, but nothing serious. We started talking and we just got along so well. We talked non stop for days. I told him what was going on, and told him that I felt like there was some feelings for him and he aknowledged the same. I told him I had to figure out my upcoming divorce before I could move forward. I told my H that we needed to put a plan in place, I told him that I was talking to someone and that if he was still sure he wanted out I wanted to start the process.

 

OM and I were talking but just friendly catching up at that point. In Dec my H asked if it was too late to go to counseling. I felt like I owed it to my kids to try. My H knew at that time I was conflicted now.

 

We started counseling in Jan 2014, I felt like he was being overly nice and it felt generic. I told him in May that I wanted to meet with the OM to see what was there if anything. I did that. I decided that while I liked him, it wasn't how I wanted my marriage to end. I told both the OM and my H that. Stopped talking to the OM.

 

Little progress was being made in counseling even though we went weekly individually and together. At the end of July 2014 OM reached out to tell me he was seeing someone but that he couldn't stop thinking of me. We talked back and forth a day or 2 and I told him that I wasn't ready to make a decision. My H saw those messages and was upset.

 

We continued counseling with little progress, as my H didn't want to participate fully. He felt like just showing up to the sessions was enough. (Maybe that's wrong, but that is what I felt) he generally sat in the sessions half asleep, or with a bored look on his face.

 

We ended counseling in Jan 2015 with our MC suggesting we take the night to make a decision on whether it was time to end the marriage. I decided to give it 3 months, and after that even with little progress, I didn't have the courage to leave. I don't remember exactly when I got in touch with the OM again. But I know I was still unhappy and at that point had basically given up, so I thought maybe this is as good as it's going to be. I told myself I could keep my family together, and have my needs met with OM since my H refused to do so. We all know how that turned out.

 

My H only started making positive changes last November when I told him I was done and ready to leave. It took me until April of this year to realize how hard he was trying this time, at that point I tried to end things with the OM but was in too deep. It was cowardly, and I hate that I went down that route. I can't change it though. It is forever a part of my history.

 

Sorry if there are a bunch of typos. I'm in my phone.

Edited September 28, 2016 by alsudduth

[merrmeade]

(Pretty impressive for a phone actually.)

 

Wow, this is so not your typical BS/WS story. I'm not sure it's even mainly about infidelity. You've both gone outside the marriage for validation and support. You both are weighing the benefits / liabilities of the marriage. You both have backup options if things fall through. Yet you both have enough uncertainty about starting over that you've each ended up deciding that the marriage relationship is still your first choice for a lot of (probably) similar reasons.

 

So here's where I am at the moment with your very detailed summary: I actually agree with you that - according to your account - you've put more into making things work than he has in recent past. The main evidence for me includes the reported dialogues. He's just holding his cards way too close and playing this out all on the basis of what's good for him. Granted, he's going through the most recent fallout and - to give him the benefit of the doubt - perhaps still reeling. But neither of you can cast any stones here. He's just not your average betrayed spouse and his go-to in the wings is as available as yours I assume.

 

So, man, I call it a standoff and think maybe you're past marriage counseling and could benefit more from mediation - as in a paid, professional mediator that works with pre-divorce. They do a lot of the same kinds of work with couples in mediation that you do in MC - just more realistic and allows talk about all options especially the legal implications. And they don't all end up in divorce by any means. But if they do end up recommitting to the marriage, the conversation leading up to that decision can be a little or a lot different from the one you'd be having with a marriage counselor—probably more efficient and covers a wider swath of concerns. (My cousin does this for a living.)

 

I just really think this is not a reconciliation with two parties working equally toward the same goal of making the marriage the best it can be. I think the lack of communication and information about your goals, hopes and wishes makes it difficult. The main thing that's so unusual is that you are on an equal footing as far as the infidelities are concerned. Kind of uncanny. You both went so far but no further (EA), and you both have the OM & OW in the background equally available at the moment. Your investment and fear of loss regarding the marriage is also unusual: You have less to lose because the balance of power is even. (I think but what do I really know except what you write. Maybe this—the balance of power—is a question to be examined with a mediator or therapist.)

 

So perhaps the conversation really needs to be about that—just laying ALL the cards on the table and talking out loud about what will happen if they're played this way or that and then which hand you'd prefer to play.

.

My two cents worth...

Edited September 28, 2016 by merrmeade

[DKT3]

Yeah, but its his side told through her eye's. I think it's pretty common for a ww to discount, I ignore or flat out not appreciate efforts set forth while in an affair.

 

Example, while my wife was in the middle of her affair I flew home for one day to surprise her with a birthday lunch and a Prada bag (she has a thing for handbags, could have got a nice used Honda accord for what I paid for it) during lunch she made what I felt was a very odd comment being that I was still playing the role of fool and knew nothing about her affair. She said, why did you do this? I responded because I love you, she replied back "no its because you think it's what you should do and not because you wanted to". It was odd but I didn't push. It made perfect sense later.s sadly she never even thanked me.

 

Was that a case of me not making an effort or because of her affair being blinded to my efforts?

[merrmeade]

Yes, except that I don't think she'd completely reword what he said in those conversations she reconstructed for us. And there, he sounded distant and withholding. I mean, like I said before, maybe he felt shot down from the get-go in that last encounter because the first thing she asked was about going to her mother's totally forgetting - by her own admission - that going to the town where OM is would be a complete trigger for him. So therefore, he was put off from the get-go. Hard to hold that conversation as a standard.

 

We only have her word for what he says and means, and I agree that she hasn't been saying all the right things as she did in the beginning of the thread about being transparent, giving him time, understanding how devastated he feels, etc., etc. We should hear his version of the same years that she chronicled.

 

Regardless of what he does or doesn't say, you cannot dismiss the detailed account of how she felt.

[harrybrown]

Yeah, but its his side told through her eye's. I think it's pretty common for a ww to discount, I ignore or flat out not appreciate efforts set forth while in an affair.

 

Example, while my wife was in the middle of her affair I flew home for one day to surprise her with a birthday lunch and a Prada bag (she has a thing for handbags, could have got a nice used Honda accord for what I paid for it) during lunch she made what I felt was a very odd comment being that I was still playing the role of fool and knew nothing about her affair. She said, why did you do this? I responded because I love you, she replied back "no its because you think it's what you should do and not because you wanted to". It was odd but I didn't push. It made perfect sense later.s sadly she never even thanked me.

 

Was that a case of me not making an effort or because of her affair being blinded to my efforts?

 

 

has she ever addressed this with you now?

[merrmeade]

alsudduth, I did say I agreed with you according to your account because that's all we know. But, in fact, it doesn't matter if you are in the right or in the wrong about who's put more into the marriage. The fact is that it appears from your reports that your H is not at that point of working on the marriage, working on the reconciliation - for his reasons.

 

So what's the point of pushing him to do what you're doing? He has to want it.

 

I absolutely agree that you need intervention — a 3rd party guide, so to speak, as you each and both navigate decisions and reactions .

[merrmeade]

Oh, and THANKS for the very detailed recounting of what happened when. It helped a lot to understand why you feel the way you do.

 

I also relate to the nonsense your H fed you when he was eagerly eating up the OW's attention and lures yet denying every single concern and question you presented him about it (aka - gaslighting).

 

My husband did that, but I was too young and trusting to realize he did not have my best interest at heart. Sounds pretty ridiculous now! I also used to suggest to him that certain women seemed attracted to him and he should be careful not to give them the wrong idea (among other things) and he would dismiss me.

 

I can see why you rightfully feel strongly about the counseling. So would I. You've got SO much unfinished business regarding his affair. I imagine yours was just a stop-gap way of dealing with a lot of that but if you think about it you pretty much did the same thing—had an EA with someone who validated you and made you feel wanted, desirable, lovable, etc.

 

BUt he's the one in the victim's seat at the moment and you agreed that he should be if you recall. If not, reread your early posts in this thread.

 

So to repeat for about the 5th time, I think only a professional can steer you through these waters.

[DKT3]

Oh, and THANKS for the very detailed recounting of what happened when. It helped a lot to understand why you feel the way you do.

 

I also relate to the nonsense your H fed you when he was eagerly eating up the OW's attention and lures yet denying every single concern and question you presented him about it (aka - gaslighting).

 

My husband did that, but I was too young and trusting to realize he did not have my best interest at heart. Sounds pretty ridiculous now! I also used to suggest to him that certain women seemed attracted to him and he should be careful not to give them the wrong idea (among other things) and he would dismiss me.

 

I can see why you rightfully feel strongly about the counseling. So would I. You've got SO much unfinished business regarding his affair. I imagine yours was just a stop-gap way of dealing with a lot of that but if you think about it you pretty much did the same thing—had an EA with someone who validated you and made you feel wanted, desirable, lovable, etc.

 

BUt he's the one in the victim's seat at the moment and you agreed that he should be if you recall. If not, reread your early posts in this thread.

 

So to repeat for about the 5th time, I think only a professional can steer you through these waters.

Hers was a full blown affair....but honestly I would bet so was her husband's.

[merrmeade]

Hers was a full blown affair....but honestly I would bet so was her husband's.

That's not what I understood - from p. 1:

this was not a PA but an EA.

the OM lives in my hometown not in the state I live now.

I went through her posts today. She went to OM for comfort following her husband's affair and it was pretty much all online or phone I think. Did I miss something, alsudduth?

 

Husband's affair is the one she isn't sure about either. If disclosure isn't a flow but a trickle process, no way BS can ever know for sure. I live with this one.

 

I don't see any reason to question events in her recent timeline on the previous page.

 

I think OP has been as honest as she knows how to be and enormously forthcoming here. The question is whether her perspective is accurate but whose is on this earth? Especially when there's this much at stake.

[DKT3]

That's not what I understood - from p. 1: I went through her posts today. She went to OM for comfort following her husband's affair and it was pretty much all online or phone I think. Did I miss something, alsudduth?

 

Husband's affair is the one she isn't sure about either. If disclosure isn't a flow but a trickle process, no way BS can ever know for sure. I live with this one.

 

I don't see any reason to question events in her recent timeline on the previous page.

 

I think OP has been as honest as she knows how to be and enormously forthcoming here. The question is whether her perspective is accurate but whose is on this earth? Especially when there's this much at stake.

 

Ugh, I've read so many it's possible I'm confused....

[ShatteredLady]

DKT3. I REALLY know what you're talking about here....

 

"Yeah, but its his side told through her eye's. I think it's pretty common for a ww to discount, I ignore or flat out not appreciate efforts set forth while in an affair.

 

Example, while my wife was in the middle of her affair I flew home for one day to surprise her with a birthday lunch and a Prada bag (she has a thing for handbags, could have got a nice used Honda accord for what I paid for it) during lunch she made what I felt was a very odd comment being that I was still playing the role of fool and knew nothing about her affair. She said, why did you do this? I responded because I love you, she replied back "no its because you think it's what you should do and not because you wanted to". It was odd but I didn't push. It made perfect sense later.s sadly she never even thanked me.

 

Was that a case of me not making an effort or because of her affair being blinded to my efforts?"

 

 

.....I could give so, so, so many examples of my H being just like this while having his 2 affairs with the same woman 12 years apart.

 

Since joining this forum I've learnt a whole new language...'rewriting marital history', 'cognitive dissonance', 'affair fog' etc etc etc. So many heart wrenching horrors of betrayal. So much pain. So many oh so SIMILAR stories!!

 

 

This one is different!! I don't know. Infidelity is brutal. I've experienced the BS part of the triangle. I've never known such agony. When we talk we now have a rule that anything I said or did AFTER d-day doesn't count.

 

I had a perfect memory before 'THAT' moment. I went into shock, physically I collapsed & threw-up, felt like my heart was bursting out of my chest. The adrenaline kept me awake for days on end. I couldn't eat & I couldn't stop crying.

 

Time is helping but the triggers are still brutal.

 

What if I met someone who said all the right things now? What if I had an EA? Would that somehow erase what my H had done to me? What if I met someone who could give me all the things that my H won't? What if I met a man who made me feel like a woman of any value, lovable, desirable? Even a bloke who would listen without rolling his eyes would be nice!!

 

I like to believe that I'm some strong moral lady who could NEVER inflict that kind of pain on anyone. I love my H. How could I destroy him like that?

 

With the latest posts from the OP I'm understanding her so much more. I'm not condoning her actions but I think I'm starting to get-it.

[merrmeade]

Maybe she'll be back. I was hopeful for this one.