Feminism in dating (Updated)

[edgygirl]

I don't understand the concept. Do you mean I have to pay him back... giving blow jobs, say?

 

It's the courting dance. The guy is courting me. I am giving him my precious time, that could be spent on any other of the dozens of guys who write me weekly. If he courts me the right way, and is marriage material, then, one day, he'll get the "payback". ROI = return on investment.

 

It's unfortunate that some of you don't want to accept that this is the way it works. At least in big US cities. Sorry! I also found it strange in the beginning, but that's how it goes and I had to adapt. Those who don't, look like weirdos.

 

This doesn't really answer the question. If a guy takes you out on a couple dates and pays for both, what do you do for him?

 

And yes, sorry - I agree with the below. We choose. You choose too. It's just that what we're looking for is different than what you're looking for, hence some of you can't comprehend it. A woman that doesn't want to be treated well, can stay with a guy who doesn't pamper her. Very simple. If you want one of those women, go look for them. Meanwhile, I prefer guys who treat me well and show they can provide in case it's needed. In my case, I hardly eat (very thin) and don't care for drinks or gifts, so it's really based on the principle and my preference of how I like a man to be. I really don't care about expensive dates. I care about personality first but also with a man showing he has his act together.

 

I will make this clear for you. Women have these preferences in men because they can, bottom line. When you have 5 guys interested in you, and 3 of them are willing to treat you like a princess, open doors for you, pay for everything all the time, ect, those are the guys you are going to prefer. As a man, if we had 5 different women knocking on our doors, and most of them were trying to give us an amazing blow job, cook us dinner, and tell us how awesome we are, we would only date those women.

Edited December 14, 2015 by edgygirl

[sambolini]

Um ... it's not the responsibility of feminism that rape culture, wage gaps and patriarchy exist. Standing against them doesn't make me a victim of anything.

 

What are YOUR opinions about rape culture, wage gaps and patriarchy?

 

Rape culture doesn't exist. The wage gap is in reality only five to seven cents. And that patriarchy doesn't exist.

[edgygirl]

That's a lie. And don't make me look for more articles.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/opinion/lets-expose-the-gender-pay-gap.html

 

http://www.catalyst.org/knowledge/womens-earnings-and-income

 

Rape culture doesn't exist. The wage gap is in reality only five to seven cents. And that patriarchy doesn't exist.

[sambolini]

One thing for sure, you will NEVER need to worry about a woman who considers herself a feminist, or even who knows what that means in history, wanting to date you.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

And that begs the question - WHY do you only date women who don't have a job or contribute anything?

 

Are you implying that the only employable women, and the only women who have jobs, are feminists? That's quite misogynistic towards the large number of women who choose to be SAHM's.

 

From your posts I think that is the only type of woman you date, or know. Maybe hanging around with feminists would be a good thing for you, at least most of them will probably have a job.

 

Incorrect. I hang out with a wide variety of women, including feminists. In fact, I work for one. And I enjoy working for her.

 

Where there is disconnect is the idea that somehow women's problems are always more important than men's. As a man, I reject such a notion.

[sambolini]

That's a lie. And don't make me look for more articles.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/opinion/lets-expose-the-gender-pay-gap.html

 

Women's Earnings and Income | Catalyst

 

Hmmmm...

 

The ?Wage Gap? Myth That Won?t Die - WSJ

[sambolini]

Here's a link to the article that contains the study with the five to seven cent figure. Which was done by a feminist think tank.

 

Wage Gap Myth Exposed -- By Feminists | Christina Hoff Sommers

[RedRobin]

I don't understand the concept. Do you mean I have to pay him back... giving blow jobs, say?

 

It's the courting dance. The guy is courting me. I am giving him my precious time, that could be spent on any other of the dozens of guys who write me weekly. If he courts me the right way, and is marriage material, then, one day, he'll get the "payback". ROI = return on investment.

 

It's unfortunate that some of you don't want to accept that this is the way it works. At least in big US cities. Sorry! I also found it strange in the beginning, but that's how it goes and I had to adapt. Those who don't, look like weirdos.

 

 

 

And yes, sorry - I agree with the below. We choose. You choose too. It's just that what we're looking for is different than what you're looking for, hence some of you can't comprehend it. A woman that doesn't want to be treated well, can stay with a guy who doesn't pamper her. Very simple. If you want one of those women, go look for them. Meanwhile, I prefer guys who treat me well and show they can provide in case it's needed. In my case, I hardly eat (very thin) and don't care for drinks or gifts, so it's really based on the principle and my preference of how I like a man to be. I really don't care about expensive dates. I care about personality first but also with a man showing he has his act together.

 

 

 

As distasteful as I find this... I suppose it is your right to look for any kind of guy you choose.

 

 

I expect to be treated well by the men I date... and usually am... which has nothing to do with money.

 

 

Your post makes me very sad for all of the women (and men) who have spent their lives working for gender equality and fairness...

 

 

One of my favorite sayings is "No man's d*ck is gold plated"...

 

 

But I could also say "No woman's vajay-jay is gold plated" either. My time is no more precious than his. His time is no more precious than mine...

 

 

but if that guy wants to blow his money on strangers, I'd say he has poor judgment or is insecure... This likely wouldn't be the behavior of a guy who has his stuff together. It's behavior of a guy who has something to prove, if you ask me.

[edgygirl]

What does this have to do with not believing in gender equality? Did I say I won't share my money equally in case I marry someone? My money your money. That's how it has always been in my family.

 

I don't date men who have "something to prove". I date kind men who are not cheap and have a stable financial condition. If they find it difficult to pay for a meager $40 bar tab, they're not the man for me.

 

When dating, I prefer a man to pay. That's my psychological preference. It's not yours, and I will never change your mind and you will never change mine. Actually you're the exception in the US as you may know. Good for you. Do I pick on your preference only because I don't believe in it based on my background and beliefs? No. Why do you keep picking on mine? Keep your preference, I'll keep mine. You're welcome.

 

As distasteful as I find this... I suppose it is your right to look for any kind of guy you choose.

 

 

I expect to be treated well by the men I date... and usually am... which has nothing to do with money.

 

 

Your post makes me very sad for all of the women (and men) who have spent their lives working for gender equality and fairness...

 

 

One of my favorite sayings is "No man's d*ck is gold plated"...

 

 

But I could also say "No woman's vajay-jay is gold plated" either. My time is no more precious than his. His time is no more precious than mine...

 

 

but if that guy wants to blow his money on strangers, I'd say he has poor judgment or is insecure... This likely wouldn't be the behavior of a guy who has his stuff together. It's behavior of a guy who has something to prove, if you ask me.

[loveflower]

What does this have to do with not believing in gender equality?

 

Gender equality to me means when a woman lift 20lb, a man should be able to lift at lease twice as that. that is how women are generally built. and that's what makes a man a man.

 

It's not fair to expect a woman to make the same or more as man, because women are not as strong as men generally.

 

therefore, it's only fair a man should protect his woman.

[Imajerk17]

Well, I have yet to read all the points and counterpoints to the post, but I do think it would be helpful to look at the 30,000-foot view of what is happening here.

 

These forums especially, there are many, many, disenfranchised males when it comes to dating. These males basically feel that all the power and choice when it comes to dating is in the hands of the women. Women who are also nowadays further along when it comes to career success too. This feeling of disenfranchisement on the part of these guys is actually at the root of many threads on here.

 

Yeah, these guys do get how women have to be concerned for their safety in ways that men aren't, but it doesn't quite explain away these guys' frustrations w dating. See, as these guys may see it, they (presumably) have never and would lay a hand on a woman. So why are the sins of other men being held against them. Something similar can be said about the anecdotes about the loyal girlfriends financially supporting their partners. It hardly makes a guy on here feel better to know that the woman who ghosted--after letting him buy her an expensive dinner twice say, is now SOMEONE ELSE's loyal and giving girlfriend.

 

What I was getting at in an earlier post, and what I think many other posters were getting at as well, is that guys CAN have a lot more power and choice when it comes to dating if they'd only realize it. Everything from keeping the first few dates inexpensive to screening for someone who treats you well to becoming more attractive, can be done. It starts by no longer blaming society for their problems.

 

I also think it would do well for the women participating on this thread to see what may really be going on. I really don't think guys "want to keep women down", I really think instead they just feel powerless and frustrated w dating sometimes.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Imajerk17

[Shining One]

Gender equality to me means when a woman lift 20lb, a man should be able to lift at lease twice as that. that is how women are generally built. and that's what makes a man a man.

 

It's not fair to expect a woman to make the same or more as man, because women are not as strong as men generally.

What does strength have to do with earning ability? I can lift more than any woman in the company I work for, but there are quite a few who make considerably more than me.

[Els]

These forums especially, there are many, many, disenfranchised males when it comes to dating. These males basically feel that all the power and choice when it comes to dating is in the hands of the women. Women who are also nowadays further along when it comes to career success too. This feeling of disenfranchisement on the part of these guys is actually at the root of many threads on here.

 

I agree with this, but don't you think this is their own problem and they should look within and try to change their own lives if they are unhappy with them, rather than blaming women for everything?

 

It's the same thing as women who are blaming the entire male gender just because a few men cheated on them or used them, really. Yes, those guys were *******s, but at the end of the day the onus is still on her to move on from them instead of blaming all of mankind for what happened to her.

 

Also, it's pretty untrue that "all the choice and power" lies with women - men make choices too, every bit as much as women do. Just in different ways.

[BlueIris]

...

We choose. You choose too. It's just that what we're looking for is different than what you're looking for, hence some of you can't comprehend it.

...

 

Oh, this is so true.

 

Often I can't comprehend what a man wants either, or how the theory of what he wants or intends moves into practice.

[Woggle]

I have never struggled with dating and I think men only lose power if we willingly give it. You don't have to date women who treat men as walking wallets.

 

I just call it like I see it in general and as a man who dated a lot before he married I feel I have some good insight. I can't speak on what it is like to date men because I never did but I am sure women have their struggles with dating. I know I am a practice what I preach kind of guy but I can admit a lot of men play games as well.

 

I also don't blame men for not wanting to date cafeteria because they tend to want all the things that benefit them and reject all the things that benefit the man. Any good and healthy relationship is a mutually beneficial give and take.

[edgygirl]

Maybe if I confess where my fears and preferences come from it will make more sense.

 

I am not looking for a "walking wallet". In fact, I want someone who is equal to me.

 

The reason being I've seen more than one man in my immediate and distant family being a complete failure at making money to even pay basic bills and make a living. And I've seen their wives having to work triple (14 hours days or more) for 30 years because of it, to put food in the mouths of 4 kids and have a roof.

 

That's what I'm trying to avoid. I took care of my life professionally and I can make a good living. I want a man who is at least in the same level as me - which means more than a 6 figure salary. Because if push comes to shove, either me or him should be able to pay the bills until the other gets back on their feet.

 

I don't want a man who is a dead weight as the ones I've seen very closely. Paying for dates can be one of the indicators of financial stability (of course can also be that they're lying and getting into debt because of it. But I am a relatively good judge of character and can perceive it soon.). So for me, I feel protected and less anxious by someone who has their life together, as I try to do with mine. It goes both ways.

 

Is there more "equality" than this? Boo to you downers who don't care about a man's financial stability. If you're willing to work like a dog to pay for a dead weight, good for you. I'm not. Prefer to be single

[RedRobin]

I don't work like a dog for dead weight.

 

 

None of my partners have been dead weight. Not one.

 

 

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but I don't like honest, hardworking, responsible guys trashed and told that they don't know how to treat a woman well. It's total BS.

 

 

There are plenty of very wealthy men who treat their wives like cr*p and an accessory. I have no interest in being a trophy. My ex-H's family was from old money and you couldn't pay me enough to put up with the junk his mom put up with from his dad...

 

 

... I think dating is all about showing who you are. If someone has baggage from their childhood, it seems that the men one dates shouldn't be obliged to make up for it.

[Woggle]

I have usually made more or around the same as the women I dated and in some cases they looked down on me because I started from the bottom and made my way up instead of being from old money. No matter how much I made I was still not in their social class or the social class they wanted to move up to. They also didn't like the fact that I preferred my old friends from when I had nothing to the yuppie jerks I worked with and I also resisted their attempts to turn me into one of those yuppies. I don't want to become them or hang out with them. This shows that in some cases it really is more about social status than money and a guy treating a woman to lavish things shows high social status.

[edgygirl]

Lord. Neither am I interested in being a trophy. Why are you missing my point? I want an equal. Why do you have to keep twisting things?

 

I want someone at least as successful as I am. Fair enough in my opinion.

 

Most of us - men and women - have to put up with people's childhood baggage, if case didn't realize by now.

 

There are plenty of very wealthy men who treat their wives like cr*p and an accessory. I have no interest in being a trophy. My ex-H's family was from old money and you couldn't pay me enough to put up with the junk his mom put up with from his dad...

 

 

... I think dating is all about showing who you are. If someone has baggage from their childhood, it seems that the men one dates shouldn't be obliged to make up for it.

[SerenityNoww]

FWIW, I don't call myself a feminist. A humanist maybe. I don't believe in gender stereotypes. I believe in equal treatment and fairness for both genders. People can have their preferences, but it annoys me when they make it all about their gender and not about them as an individual.

 

It will change when men stop being afraid they will never get laid if they stop paying for dates with strangers, etc. and go for women who are willing to demonstrate that they want to treat men like full partners in every way.

 

 

This is how I've treated men my whole entire life. As equal partners, not cash cows. I was raised to always pull my weight... and you know what? I've always found men who pull their own too... Not just when it comes to making a living but with domestic stuff too.

 

 

We all pitch in.

 

 

It's guys who need to draw the line here. Stop dating princesses and insist on equal treatment. Just like women have to do in the workplace. It is tough to move out of your comfort zone, but you can do it guys!!

 

 

150% Agree!!!

 

I have been spouting off about the same damn thing ever since I've been on this forum. But for some reason whenever I said it, I got bashed by other members on here, getting labeled and told that I have no confidence if I dont chase women, or if I dont conform and go along with "society" then I should expect to get ignored.

 

Interaction between two people should be 50-50. Stop with the stupid old invisible rules that the guy needs to do 80-90% of the work. More women need to follow RedRobins lead, but you will see a huge resistance from both men and women fighting it till the death, because theres so many of them that resist change. Too many moms and grandmas telling young women that they should never lift a finger, to always wait for the man.

 

Too many men as well that dont dare want to empower women, especially in the dating world of all places. Many men want to keep a thumb on women, not letting them experience the freedom of exploring whats out there and choosing a man, rather than sitting there waiting for a man to find them.

[trippi1432]

Well, I have yet to read all the points and counterpoints to the post, but I do think it would be helpful to look at the 30,000-foot view of what is happening here.

 

These forums especially, there are many, many, disenfranchised males when it comes to dating. These males basically feel that all the power and choice when it comes to dating is in the hands of the women. Women who are also nowadays further along when it comes to career success too. This feeling of disenfranchisement on the part of these guys is actually at the root of many threads on here.

 

Yeah, these guys do get how women have to be concerned for their safety in ways that men aren't, but it doesn't quite explain away these guys' frustrations w dating. See, as these guys may see it, they (presumably) have never and would lay a hand on a woman. So why are the sins of other men being held against them. Something similar can be said about the anecdotes about the loyal girlfriends financially supporting their partners. It hardly makes a guy on here feel better to know that the woman who ghosted--after letting him buy her an expensive dinner twice say, is now SOMEONE ELSE's loyal and giving girlfriend.

 

What I was getting at in an earlier post, and what I think many other posters were getting at as well, is that guys CAN have a lot more power and choice when it comes to dating if they'd only realize it. Everything from keeping the first few dates inexpensive to screening for someone who treats you well to becoming more attractive, can be done. It starts by no longer blaming society for their problems.

 

I also think it would do well for the women participating on this thread to see what may really be going on. I really don't think guys "want to keep women down", I really think instead they just feel powerless and frustrated w dating sometimes.

 

I'm sorry........come again on that one.......Wow!!

[RedRobin]

Well, I have yet to read all the points and counterpoints to the post, but I do think it would be helpful to look at the 30,000-foot view of what is happening here.

 

These forums especially, there are many, many, disenfranchised males when it comes to dating. These males basically feel that all the power and choice when it comes to dating is in the hands of the women. Women who are also nowadays further along when it comes to career success too. This feeling of disenfranchisement on the part of these guys is actually at the root of many threads on here.

 

Yeah, these guys do get how women have to be concerned for their safety in ways that men aren't, but it doesn't quite explain away these guys' frustrations w dating. See, as these guys may see it, they (presumably) have never and would lay a hand on a woman. So why are the sins of other men being held against them. Something similar can be said about the anecdotes about the loyal girlfriends financially supporting their partners. It hardly makes a guy on here feel better to know that the woman who ghosted--after letting him buy her an expensive dinner twice say, is now SOMEONE ELSE's loyal and giving girlfriend.

 

What I was getting at in an earlier post, and what I think many other posters were getting at as well, is that guys CAN have a lot more power and choice when it comes to dating if they'd only realize it. Everything from keeping the first few dates inexpensive to screening for someone who treats you well to becoming more attractive, can be done. It starts by no longer blaming society for their problems.

 

I also think it would do well for the women participating on this thread to see what may really be going on. I really don't think guys "want to keep women down", I really think instead they just feel powerless and frustrated w dating sometimes.

 

 

They are right to feel disenfranchised by hypocritical behavior. I understand why they might turn to 'society' to explain away their issues...

 

 

If 'society' condones unfair treatment, then yea... lets blame society. In this aspect, I absolutely DO think its unfair.

 

 

Stories from women who claim to be generous after which point exactly?? If so, I'd like to know why that guy would trust that she is actually reciprocating, or generous, or would make a good partner if he's the one always busting a nut in the early stages... Why is that?

 

 

Or maybe he gets something else out of that exercise that I'm not aware of. Who knows.

[trippi1432]

I have never struggled with dating and I think men only lose power if we willingly give it. You don't have to date women who treat men as walking wallets.

 

I just call it like I see it in general and as a man who dated a lot before he married I feel I have some good insight. I can't speak on what it is like to date men because I never did but I am sure women have their struggles with dating. I know I am a practice what I preach kind of guy but I can admit a lot of men play games as well.

 

I also don't blame men for not wanting to date cafeteria because they tend to want all the things that benefit them and reject all the things that benefit the man. Any good and healthy relationship is a mutually beneficial give and take.

 

As a divorced woman, I get what I Pay for.....a nice manicured lawn in 20 minutes that didn't take a case of beer and 7 hours. I also get piece of mind on a Saturday morning now without some nutcase screaming at me.

 

You get what you pay for, and I agree with Woggle, if it's not mutually benefical.....you might want to weigh your options. I like my eggs over-easy.................................:D

[ltjg45]

The reason being I've seen more than one man in my immediate and distant family being a complete failure at making money to even pay basic bills and make a living. And I've seen their wives having to work triple (14 hours days or more) for 30 years because of it, to put food in the mouths of 4 kids and have a roof.

 

As far as I am concerned, I will never date until my basic needs is accounted for first. If I can't take care of myself, then what is the point of dating?

 

As I said many times before and I will continue to do so until I am either blue to my face or I am on my death bed, I REFUSE to be dependent on anyone.

 

Does that mean I can't take care of as many children as most women wants? Yeah. If that is an issue, I will simply let her go.

 

Does that mean I will have minimal disposable income? Of course. I am fine with that. I am looking for a woman that is also willing to accept that as well.

 

That doesn't mean I won't treat her out if I feel she is worth it. However, all that means is that once that is done, I can't do much more than that......and I am OK with that. I felt she is worth giving up any activites I may be doing for the next week or two.

 

But there is one promise I will always keep: She will never have to worry about my own bills and expenses. That is my problems and mine alone.

[lino]

Maybe if I confess where my fears and preferences come from it will make more sense.

 

I am not looking for a "walking wallet". In fact, I want someone who is equal to me.

 

The reason being I've seen more than one man in my immediate and distant family being a complete failure at making money to even pay basic bills and make a living. And I've seen their wives having to work triple (14 hours days or more) for 30 years because of it, to put food in the mouths of 4 kids and have a roof.

 

That's what I'm trying to avoid. I took care of my life professionally and I can make a good living. I want a man who is at least in the same level as me - which means more than a 6 figure salary. Because if push comes to shove, either me or him should be able to pay the bills until the other gets back on their feet.

 

I don't want a man who is a dead weight as the ones I've seen very closely. Paying for dates can be one of the indicators of financial stability (of course can also be that they're lying and getting into debt because of it. But I am a relatively good judge of character and can perceive it soon.). So for me, I feel protected and less anxious by someone who has their life together, as I try to do with mine. It goes both ways.

 

Is there more "equality" than this? Boo to you downers who don't care about a man's financial stability. If you're willing to work like a dog to pay for a dead weight, good for you. I'm not. Prefer to be single

 

A guy earning under 6 figures is light years from dead weight, much less a guy who isn't the top ten percent earning bracket like you claim. Do you realise how ridiculous and entitled that sounds?

 

You won't have to work triple time if you end up with a guy earning $70,000 a year.

You are nothing more than entitled and a money chaser. Winding around it doesn't sugar coat it.

 

You say you want someone equal to you yet want a man paying for your dates? How is that equal?!? Equal is the literal meaning not equal with an asterisk following it.

 

Real feminists, the ones who value true equality between HUMANS would vomit their guts out reading a supposed top ten percent earner stamping her feet for a guy to pay for her.

You seriously gotta be kidding yourself there

[lino]

As far as I am concerned, I will never date until my basic needs is accounted for first. If I can't take care of myself, then what is the point of dating?

 

As I said many times before and I will continue to do so until I am either blue to my face or I am on my death bed, I REFUSE to be dependent on anyone.

 

Does that mean I can't take care of as many children as most women wants? Yeah. If that is an issue, I will simply let her go.

 

Does that mean I will have minimal disposable income? Of course. I am fine with that. I am looking for a woman that is also willing to accept that as well.

 

That doesn't mean I won't treat her out if I feel she is worth it. However, all that means is that once that is done, I can't do much more than that......and I am OK with that. I felt she is worth giving up any activites I may be doing for the next week or two.

 

But there is one promise I will always keep: She will never have to worry about my own bills and expenses. That is my problems and mine alone.

 

Dude, that member doesn't want a man to be merely independent, she wants a rich guy to pay for her.

 

Being able to stand on one's feet is different to earning enough to pamper a princess.