Feminism in dating (Updated)

[Woggle]

Staying on the topic of feminism.....guys, sometimes you miss the point. There is no reason to be defensive.

 

We do not and will never understand what having a member feels like....because we don't have one. We will try, as a mom to a son, I will try. Of the same accord, member people will not understand what it is to have a vagina or to give birth to another human being. There must be an understanding and respect of these simple truths.

 

Feminism is simply about equality. EQUALITY. Brains for brains, effort for effort. There is nothing in pure feminism that would put a man down. It is something that women have had to fight for, ya know, when we could not vote or choose our husband. There are women still murdered and beaten and stoned and burned and raped all over the globe for being a woman.

 

There is no reason to disregard a woman who says that they have been treated poorly or hurt for being a woman. This is only the truth. There is no attempt in feminism to take from men. We are on the same side...we need and want you and you need and want us. We are wives, sisters, mothers and friends.

 

If you are a man who is not able to appreciate that.....no words then. No soup for you.

 

I agree there is nothing about pure feminism that puts men down. What we see in a lot of modern third wave feminism is about as far from pure as you can get. Having dealt with a mother who didn't even think her own son should be exempt from misandrist hatred I think I have some experience with the extreme element.

 

I agree that there is no reason to disregard women who have been hurt but there is also no reason to disregard men who have been through hell in the divorce court system or boys who are falling through the cracks in our education system. If we are really serious about making a better world let's make it two ways.

[salparadise]

I agree there is nothing about pure feminism that puts men down. What we see in a lot of modern third wave feminism is about as far from pure as you can get. Having dealt with a mother who didn't even think her own son should be exempt from misandrist hatred I think I have some experience with the extreme element.

 

I agree that there is no reason to disregard women who have been hurt but there is also no reason to disregard men who have been through hell in the divorce court system or boys who are falling through the cracks in our education system. If we are really serious about making a better world let's make it two ways.

 

Yes, absolutely. There is an element within feminism (third wave?) who promote the idea that it's a self-evident truth that they alone occupy the righteous ground. And the political correctness police have given them the ok to villainize the adversary. Men, particularly white men, are not allowed to self advocate like all other groups and have no protected status either legally or in terms of social correctness. Labels like supremacist and misogynist are applied to those who have the audacity to object to such characterizations in the narrative. The pendulum needs to swing back toward the middle. Every individual should have the same rights and opportunities, and that includes men. If it's unacceptable to deride some groups based on race and gender, that should apply equally to all.

[RedRobin]

... 41 pages in, I am still struggling to see how 'feminism' is related to dating... Except that some men don't want to date feminists, but they like it when women offer to pay, and expect women to exercise caution and rational behavior when it comes to other men, but not them... Because they are so damned special.

 

Sound about right?

[William]

This thread reopened after review.

 

Those looking for the discussion on "Rape culture" can find that those posts have been retained and have been moved to their own thread here>> http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/abuse/562345-rape-culture

 

This thread will return to the broader topic of the effects of feminism in dating. ~Thank you

[lino]

You're projecting. I am not even close to the below.

 

When did I say I was a feminist? Also, yes, I want a guy on my level. Sorry if that bothers you so much for some reason

 

 

 

 

If you're demanding a guy pays for your dates despite being in the top 10 percent of income earners as you claim (I don't believe this as I don't believe such selfishness exists) then you indeed are a money chaser and entitled. Those arrangements are known as sugar daddy/baby arrangements. Nothing is equal about it.

 

You can try to sugar coat it all you want but you're demanding cash for your company and in most countries that has a certain name.

[Grumpybutfun]

Yes, absolutely. There is an element within feminism (third wave?) who promote the idea that it's a self-evident truth that they alone occupy the righteous ground. And the political correctness police have given them the ok to villainize the adversary. Men, particularly white men, are not allowed to self advocate like all other groups and have no protected status either legally or in terms of social correctness. Labels like supremacist and misogynist are applied to those who have the audacity to object to such characterizations in the narrative. The pendulum needs to swing back toward the middle. Every individual should have the same rights and opportunities, and that includes men. If it's unacceptable to deride some groups based on race and gender, that should apply equally to all.

 

If all women took all top level jobs with equal pay and their partners gave equal childcare and women took the Presidency or Vice Presidency and took equal 50/50 Congress for 100 years and became CEO of at least 80% of jobs, treated their husbands like maids by having them do 60% of home and childcare, and girl children became the top of the desirability birth , and men became the 16% percent of corporate jobs and every magazine carried predominantly a male spread which was naked for their product ......then maybe it would be the middle. [berating commentary redacted]

 

Best,

Grumps

Edited December 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[PrettyEmily77]

So apparently 'good feminism':

women who have respectable and well-paid jobs (but not too well-paid), i.e. enough to pay for their share in the relationship (in financial terms only) but not enough to dent fragile male egos or have them make more efforts than they're willing to make (i.e. any non-financial stuff).

 

'bad feminism':

any woman striving for full equality at all levels, professionally, personally and in relationships / dating, because the only way to get there is to 'hate all men'. We should also all understand and accept that any woman who got to a high position is either ugly, used her feminine charms to get there or only got it thanks to equal opportunities quotas (never through competence).

 

We just can't win, can we...

Edited December 21, 2015 by PrettyEmily77

[thefooloftheyear]

So apparently 'good feminism':

women who have respectable and well-paid jobs (but not too well-paid), i.e. enough to pay for their share in the relationship (in financial terms only) but not enough to dent fragile male egos or have them make more efforts than they're willing to make (i.e. any non-financial stuff).

 

'bad feminism':

any woman striving for full equality at all levels, professionally, personally and in relationships / dating, because the only way to get there is to 'hate all men'. We should also all understand and accept that any woman who got to a high position is either ugly, used her feminine charms to get there or only got it thanks to equal opportunities quotas (never through competence).

 

We just can't win, can we...

 

Sure you can win.....Simple....Live your life in the way that makes you happy and don't concern yourself with what other people(guys) think about who you are or want to be, and leave it at that..

 

A woman can choose to share ideals with feminism and implement them in her own life..That's her right and her choice and I think that's great!!,,,

 

But then, its unfair to expect guys to accept it or like it and decide to want to be with someone like that...As long as they are not holding a woman back in any way, then they can choose to reject it...

 

If that means it limits your potential partners or puts a damper on your dating life, then you need to decide as a woman to keep going with it or modify your behavior...And this doesn't just apply to women..Maybe a poor analogy, but I have some tattoos...Some women might find that repulsive, so if I actually cared, Id not get them...I don't, so it doesn't matter....I accept that my choices in life aren't going to mesh with everyone on all levels and it wouldn't be right for me to b1tch about it...

 

Its as simple as that...

 

TFY

Edited December 22, 2015 by thefooloftheyear

[PrettyEmily77]

Sure you can win.....Simple....Live your life in the way that makes you happy and don't concern yourself with what other people(guys) think about who you are or want to be, and leave it at that..

 

A woman can choose to share ideals with feminism and implement them in her own life..That's her right and her choice and I think that's great!!,,,

 

But then, its unfair to expect guys to accept it or like it and decide to want to be with someone like that...As long as they are not holding a woman back in any way, then they can choose to reject it...

 

If that means it limits your potential partners or puts a damper on your dating life, then you need to decide as a woman to keep going with it or modify your behavior...And this doesn't just apply to women..Maybe a poor analogy, but I have some tattoos...Some women might find that repulsive, so if I actually cared, Id not get them...I don't, so it doesn't matter....I accept that my choices in life aren't going to mesh with everyone on all levels and it wouldn't be right for me to b1tch about it...

 

Its as simple as that...

 

TFY

 

I know all of this .

 

I don't personally describe myself as a feminist at all - I'm fully independent, self-sufficient, financially stable and have a job I love so I prefer to live equality in my everyday life and never considered any potential partner with 'feminist' views in mind. I've had to adjust some of my thinking to adapt to my BF's more traditional views (this whole not letting me pay when we are out took some getting used to, for instance) because being with him matters more to me than a principle.

 

Similar with the tattoos - the right guy is the right guy with or without tattoos, to me anyway. A true connection is worth so much more to me than a few tattoos or holding on too rigidly to an idea.

[Woggle]

To me good feminism is women who don't want to be oppressed and bad feminism are the women who want to become the new oppressors and abuse me. The latter does exist and while certainly not the majority they are large enough to make an impact. It is perfectly sane and normal to oppose those who hate you so men being against misandrists and reasonable and logical. In fact if they supported those who were against them there would be something wrong. I would never try to hold a woman down or hold her back but asking me to give up my self respect and be a doormat is just not going to happen.

[losangelena]

To me good feminism is women who don't want to be oppressed and bad feminism are the women who want to become the new oppressors and abuse me. The latter does exist and while certainly not the majority they are large enough to make an impact. It is perfectly sane and normal to oppose those who hate you so men being against misandrists and reasonable and logical. In fact if they supported those who were against them there would be something wrong. I would never try to hold a woman down or hold her back but asking me to give up my self respect and be a doormat is just not going to happen.

 

I don't disagree that women like that exist. I certainly am not one of them, though (I doubt many women on here are), and I would hate to think that feminists are being painted with such a broad brush. That's like being anti-Muslim when only a fraction of them are extremist.

[sambolini]

To me good feminism is women who don't want to be oppressed and bad feminism are the women who want to become the new oppressors and abuse me. The latter does exist and while certainly not the majority they are large enough to make an impact. It is perfectly sane and normal to oppose those who hate you so men being against misandrists and reasonable and logical. In fact if they supported those who were against them there would be something wrong. I would never try to hold a woman down or hold her back but asking me to give up my self respect and be a doormat is just not going to happen.

 

Very good post. There are indeed two types of feminists. My project manager at work is one of the good kind; she is great to work for, I have tons of respect for her, and she in turn respects me because I do a great job. She briefly left our agency, but when I found out she was coming back I was ecstatic. I was even more so when I found out she was going to be in charge of the project I've been working on for a few years now.

 

Then there are the misandrists. Those who blame men for every woe in their lives and accept no responsibility for any decision they make. They look at me as if I'm beneath them simply because I have a penis.

 

I have to scratch my head at why one would want me to advocate for a group that sees me as the main problem, when in reality I don't do a darned thing to anyone. I just live my life. And to expect me to go out of my way for a group of people who, in general, don't care if I live or die because of the type of genitals I have, is simply not going to happen.

 

I have nothing against individuals (unless said individual directly threatens me or someone I love). But against collective groups who actively work to target me as a threat when the worst thing I do on a regular basis is jaywalk? I will resist any such group who does that.

 

It's all about what's good for me. I just don't see how feminism can benefit me in today's society.

[Woggle]

I don't disagree that women like that exist. I certainly am not one of them, though (I doubt many women on here are), and I would hate to think that feminists are being painted with such a broad brush. That's like being anti-Muslim when only a fraction of them are extremist.

 

True and if you are a feminist and don't hate or want to keep me down I have no beef with you.

[crederer]

Does anyone have any thoughts on why dating seems to be rather almost immune to feminism? I know women aren't quite equal yet to men in things like salary and career opportunities. But they're certainly closing the gap rapidly. This is not really the case in dating though. Does anyone ever see this changing?

 

Women have less career opportunities and there is a wage gap? Have you taken into consideration women that have no children (i.e women who pursued careers instead of families)?

 

I don't even understand what it is you're asking. But modern feminism does not promote equality.

[GH3]

You know I think there will always be a place for both roles even with equality. The question of the future, in my opinion, will just be who is fulfilling those roles. Let's be honest, dating is boring without someone chasing and someone being chased. I ,for one, have been a female to be the more upfront one about whether I want to start dating or not if I see that the guy is not taking the initiative. However, I really like when guys take initiative and even do things like pay for me or hold the door for me. Even so, it's not unacceptable for the girl to pay for a date, my rule of thumb is whoever has it the most at the time. All in all, it just boils down to "what would you like your partner to do for you?" And "what are you willing to do with your partner?". I also think that society should accept that the human race will never be perfect and that if couples who like the structure of "traditional" roles, it should be just as acceptable as "androgynous" roles.

[losangelena]

You know I think there will always be a place for both roles even with equality. The question of the future, in my opinion, will just be who is fulfilling those roles. Let's be honest, dating is boring without someone chasing and someone being chased. I ,for one, have been a female to be the more upfront one about whether I want to start dating or not if I see that the guy is not taking the initiative. However, I really like when guys take initiative and even do things like pay for me or hold the door for me. Even so, it's not unacceptable for the girl to pay for a date, my rule of thumb is whoever has it the most at the time. All in all, it just boils down to "what would you like your partner to do for you?" And "what are you willing to do with your partner?". I also think that society should accept that the human race will never be perfect and that if couples who like the structure of "traditional" roles, it should be just as acceptable as "androgynous" roles.

 

 

Voice of great reason here.