OldRover Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Yes, she's in pain, she's terrified, she tells you she wants you back because she's scared to contemplate anything else. She needs you to ease her fears, salve her wounds, not tell her how conflicted you are, how much she needs to change to enable you to stay. I cannot imagine being told that my H hadsettked for me, that he wasn't sure about me, in the aftermath of his affair. He wrapped me in his love, his remorse, his desire, he put up with my rage and pain. if he had not done that we would have been done and dusted. If you aren't sure, if you honestly can't give her anything but your physical presence, just leave. That poor woman must be in so much pain. Plan B ... Maybe... If you can make up your mind. Please don't misunderstand me. I admire you for wanting to get it right, for wanting to be sure, but love relationships require a little passion, a few wild-eyed declarations, particularly after so much damage. I feel for you but I feel for your wife more. Good luck Water, How do we know she's in pain, terrified, scared, wounded? Sure she is hurt, but we don't know the extent. She could be sorry that she wasn't a better wife. The OP is hurt, too. No, I'm not condoning an affair, but there's probably a lot more to the story besides the affair. The wife want's him back for a reason, and that is probably because she still sees good in him and believes that things can be solved. If not, she'd be gone. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I need to have a clear idea that reconciliation is both what I really want How would this happen? In a marriage where you "settled" for you wife, never felt truly connected and had you thinking about leaving even before your affair, what are the logistics involved in achieving clarity? I think you see it as a way to flip the switch. You had an affair to help you deal with the issues in your marriage, now the marriage seems like a way to help you handle ending the affair. Not a very fair way to treat either your wife or AP... Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Carriages Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 How would this happen? In a marriage where you "settled" for you wife, never felt truly connected and had you thinking about leaving even before your affair, what are the logistics involved in achieving clarity? I think you see it as a way to flip the switch. You had an affair to help you deal with the issues in your marriage, now the marriage seems like a way to help you handle ending the affair. Not a very fair way to treat either your wife or AP... Mr. Lucky I can see how you'd think this, and there might be some truth in it, but it's certainly not the whole story. In terms of achieving clarity....... well, I'm thinking of avoiding contact with the AP 100% while trying to remove the affair goggles, spending time with my wife while trying as hard as I can not to generate false hope. If even something small awakens in me, and consistently, that'd probably be enough to take the plunge Link to post Share on other sites
Author Carriages Posted October 23, 2015 Author Share Posted October 23, 2015 Water, How do we know she's in pain, terrified, scared, wounded? Sure she is hurt, but we don't know the extent. She could be sorry that she wasn't a better wife. The OP is hurt, too. No, I'm not condoning an affair, but there's probably a lot more to the story besides the affair. The wife want's him back for a reason, and that is probably because she still sees good in him and believes that things can be solved. If not, she'd be gone. My wife certainly was in pain, wounded and blinded by emotion in the beginning. But that's lessened now. And yes of course, there's plenty more to this than just the affair. I think now....... she still remembers a marriage that worked well enough for her, and she wants it back. I don't think she looks too much deeper than that. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 How would this happen? In a marriage where you "settled" for you wife, never felt truly connected and had you thinking about leaving even before your affair, what are the logistics involved in achieving clarity? I think you see it as a way to flip the switch. You had an affair to help you deal with the issues in your marriage, now the marriage seems like a way to help you handle ending the affair. Not a very fair way to treat either your wife or AP... Mr. Lucky Sometimes it's like the popping of a soap bubble. All of the sudden Real Life rushes back in and bam!... you're back. Now, I'm not saying that you still don't have to deal with the flaws in your thought process which led you to a sense of entitlement. Those still have to be worked through one by one, as do the original relationship problems. But the overarching sense of what's truly important in your life can just slam back into place... just like "flipping a switch". It's an a-ha moment. You might not know exactly how to get there, but all of the sudden you do know where you want to be. If the OP had made his post before the OW dumped him, I think his motives wouldn't be questioned the way they have been so far. But he did say her excuse was that he had been waffling, so regardless of whatever her real reasons were, his internal conflict has been an ongoing one. That, coupled with the wife's desire for him to come home, suggests to me that there's still some love and devotion to work with going forward in recovery. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
William Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 With that out of the way, let's get back to discussing the thread starter's marriage and its recovery from this unfortunate event. Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites
lucy_in_disguise Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Well, I'm not married, but I see no evidence that this experience with the OW has led to any revelations for the OP about his wife's value. He was uncertain about whether he should have married her before the affair, and he remains uncertain now. Just because it wiuld be nice to avoid a dirorce for practical reason and for the sake of the kids and because his wife still wants him back, does not mean they suddenly have what it takes to keep him satisfied. If he was not able to find satisfaction in his marriage before, why would that change now? Seems like his motivation for gwtting back together has little to do with his actuak feelings for his wife. I just dont see how sinking more time into the relationship is going to fundamentally change it. And I dont see how someone can go from having 1 foot out the door for 25 years, to suddenly committing 100%, without any passion for the that person to back up the commitment. It is just not how the human heart works. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Well, I'm not married, but I see no evidence that this experience with the OW has led to any revelations for the OP about his wife's value. He was uncertain about whether he should have married her before the affair, and he remains uncertain now. Just because it wiuld be nice to avoid a dirorce for practical reason and for the sake of the kids and because his wife still wants him back, does not mean they suddenly have what it takes to keep him satisfied. If he was not able to find satisfaction in his marriage before, why would that change now? Seems like his motivation for gwtting back together has little to do with his actuak feelings for his wife. I just dont see how sinking more time into the relationship is going to fundamentally change it. And I dont see how someone can go from having 1 foot out the door for 25 years, to suddenly committing 100%, without any passion for the that person to back up the commitment. It is just not how the human heart works. Lucy, People DO change, and people often find out what is really important to them. Just because there were problems before, doesn't mean they can't be solved. Carriages is still in a bit of fog and turmoil, but certainly heading in the right direction. It is hard to jump out of an affair and back to the marriage, but he has a good start. He just needs to keep going and focus on what's really important. Sure, it will take time, but I could argue strongly not to do anything that will be a barrier to reconciliation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Water, How do we know she's in pain, terrified, scared, wounded? Sure she is hurt, but we don't know the extent. She could be sorry that she wasn't a better wife. The OP is hurt, too. No, I'm not condoning an affair, but there's probably a lot more to the story besides the affair. The wife want's him back for a reason, and that is probably because she still sees good in him and believes that things can be solved. If not, she'd be gone. That you cannot see how this blames the victim is strange to me. There is probably more to a house fire than the fire....but nobody really cares about that stack of flammable papers when the house is destroyed. I HOPE her thought right now is OT "I should have been a better wife", as if it is her fault. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Lady, BOTH must be addressed, and there is no particular order.... do what it takes and solve problems. Everyone looks at affairs and marital problems a bit different. People who are truly remorseful think if the BS first Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) That you cannot see how this blames the victim is strange to me. There is probably more to a house fire than the fire....but nobody really cares about that stack of flammable papers when the house is destroyed. I HOPE her thought right now is OT "I should have been a better wife", as if it is her fault. autumnnight, I really nope you don't think that the wife was totally innocent and didn't contribute to a bad marriage, and I'm sure he did, too. As for the affair, he did it and the fault should lie there, but sounds like the marriage wasn't working well enough to prevent it. We should not make excuses for an affair, but there are circumstances and reasons where an affair can be very easy. It's certainly worth looking into things that promote affairs and don't hold the marriage together. There can be things worse than an affair. We don't know how bad the marriage was, but there are indications that it needs work and is fixable. If it were a dead end, at least one would have nothing to do with it. BUT, the premise of the thread here is for the benefit of the OP. He is looking for help and solutions to he situation. Sure, he screwed up, but now he wants to fix it. And his wife wants him back, which would lead on to believe that she's ready to forgive and work on the marriage. Give him credit for coming here, asking for help and realizing there are issues that need fixing. And, yes, people are hurt. We need to get the hurt and pain behind and work hard on improvement and success. That may be reconciliation, it may be divorce. But it sure looks like reconciliation is by far the better option at this point. There is some work to be done, but looks like he's coming around. It's clear that he still cares for his wife. Edited October 23, 2015 by OldRover Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 It's clear that he still cares for his wife. I think he cares for his family unit as most good, responsible people do. I'd be interested in any quotes indicating he still cares for his wife, especially in a manner that survives the bumpy road of post-affair reconciliation... Mr. Lucky 4 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I really nope you don't think that the wife was totally innocent In his choice to have an affair? You betcha! They probably both took the marriage for granted. Not a topic to deal with until MUCH later down the road. Not for people who know anything about actually affair recovery. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
qubist Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I think he cares for his family unit as most good, responsible people do. I'd be interested in any quotes indicating he still cares for his wife, especially in a manner that survives the bumpy road of post-affair reconciliation... Mr. Lucky it depends on how you define "care", I think the OP does care for his wife and family, the fact that he didn't process D because they wanted him back it would've made him feel more guilty about it. for whatever reason his wife does not want D, we can argue if that's good or bad. but IMHO if you would be worse if he divorce her now can you imagine the humiliation he cheats, she beg for him to stay and he tells her no thanks I don't need you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
OldRover Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) In his choice to have an affair? You betcha! They probably both took the marriage for granted. Not a topic to deal with until MUCH later down the road. Not for people who know anything about actually affair recovery. Autumn, One needs to take the whole dynamics of a marriage into consideration for reconciliation. It's not just one sided, or one part. The success of the marriage if directly related to solutions to problems that caused issues.... all issues, including the affair. And, I'm sure he's learning about affair recovery. And there's not a clear consensus among the experts as to the best way for recovery, but there's a lot of similarities. He needs to work out a solution that is acceptable to his wife so they can put it behind and not worry about it in the future. Edited October 23, 2015 by OldRover Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Blue, Ya never know... chances of your man successful with his new woman is MUCH less than reconciliation with you. Good luck to you. Yes, people DO get back together. That's why I'm hoping that Carriages will go back. Yes, there's lots of work to do. Have ya read the story? You might want to...... Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Autumn, One needs to take the whole dynamics of a marriage into consideration for reconciliation. It's not just one sided, or one part. The success of the marriage if directly related to solutions to problems that caused issues.... all issues, including the affair. And, I'm sure he's learning about affair recovery. And there's not a clear consensus among the experts as to the best way for recovery, but there's a lot of similarities. He needs to work out a solution that is acceptable to his wife so they can put it behind and not worry about it in the future. This will be my last attempt.... When you have just betrayed the person you vowed to love and broken your vows, you do NOT list all the ways they made you do it. You just don't. A humble, empathetic, remorseful person will work on restoring trust and helping their betrayed partner heal FIRST, and then, without blame, they can jointly work on the marriage. I don't care about consensus. Any "expert" who says one should respond to infidelity by listing the ways that the BS fell short needs their "expert" title toss in the trash. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 And I agree with autumn. Blame shifting is absolutely a sign that there is no reconciliation. If you cannot say I cheated....and I take full responsibility for my choice to do so....and let that be the end of the sentence....then you are blame shifting. There is no I cheated because.... If you cannot give complete transparency....there is a problem. You cannot build trust on excuses and secrets. The cheating husband in this story has not shown by anything he has said that he is ready to take the necessary steps toward reconciliation. Lip service...saying my wife wants me back so I am going home and we are reconciling ...will not heal the wounds caused in the relationship by the infidelity. You may choose to live together...you may become a family once again. But these wounds run deep...and must eventually be addressed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 for whatever reason his wife does not want D, we can argue if that's good or bad. but IMHO if you would be worse if he divorce her now can you imagine the humiliation he cheats, she beg for him to stay and he tells her no thanks I don't need you. One unfortunate - but not uncommon - aspect of this is the probability of his wife getting hurt either way. Neither divorce nor a guilt-inspired reconciliation with a WS who really doesn't want to be there usually spells happy ending for the BS... Mr. Lucky 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 One unfortunate - but not uncommon - aspect of this is the probability of his wife getting hurt either way. Neither divorce nor a guilt-inspired reconciliation with a WS who really doesn't want to be there usually spells happy ending for the BS... Mr. Lucky And shouldn't above be of paramount importance if one is even considering reconciliation? What are my actions, or failings, going to result in for my BS? I think if that question has not been independently pondered and held in paramount importance than one is actually not truly "all feet in" reconciliation. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Lady, BOTH must be addressed, and there is no particular order.... do what it takes and solve problems. Everyone looks at affairs and marital problems a bit different. If my WH would have addressed our M problems after his A I would have laughed in his face. Are u kidding me? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I dont see how someone can go from having 1 foot out the door for 25 years, to suddenly committing 100%, without any passion for the that person to back up the commitment. It is just not how the human heart works. Right?! Thanks for pointing this out! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 If my WH would have addressed our M problems after his A I would have laughed in his face. Are u kidding me? "I'm sorry Ma'am, your son just died while driving. Now let's talk about the broken tail light....." 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 but sounds like the marriage wasn't working well enough to prevent it. What? Sounds like the OP didn't know himself enough to prevent it. I think OP should focus on how HE also made his M miserable. I'm sure he was not alone in this feeling. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 but sounds like the marriage wasn't working well enough to prevent it. Just when I think that the hinges on my jaw won't allow it to drop any further. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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