I need........... support

[Mrs. John Adams]

Because they are fundamental things about the way my wife is, and they just 'aint ever going to change. I always knew they were there (although when we got married, I expected them to get better with the passage of time). In the early days I got around them with some mental gymnastics, and I changed myself a bit.... which led to the pressure cooker I was 2 years ago.

 

So it is still her fault? You are still blame shifting after everything you have read here?

 

I agree with car hill....

[Carriages]

OP, if your wife hadn't expressed wanting you back, would you move on? I'm not saying she didn't want you back, rather not actively expressing wanting you back. In other words, where you had to make a proactive move into the maw of uncertainty? Would you move on?

 

If you would move on, IMO file for divorce on Monday. Get it done. Save yourself thousands on MC and get right to the decision.

 

If you would go back and work on recovery, then do that with all stops pulled out. All stones overturned. Every nook and cranny examined. Every day waiting is another day she can change her mind and you'll find a nice sheriff at the door with a ledger to sign and, if you didn't think you had a deadline before, trust me you'll learn all about deadlines.

 

It certainly didn't play out how I thought it would.

 

We'd been having major problems, and had discussed separation/divorce several times before - although never really with much conviction. At the time of "confession" the affair had been going on for seven months. I thought my wife would have acceptance that our marriage was over - which certainly was what what my logical side was telling me at the time. A small part of me did wonder though - that if my wife *did* want to persevere with the marriage, if I would cave.

[OldRover]

It certainly didn't play out how I thought it would.

 

We'd been having major problems, and had discussed separation/divorce several times before - although never really with much conviction. At the time of "confession" the affair had been going on for seven months. I thought my wife would have acceptance that our marriage was over - which certainly was what what my logical side was telling me at the time. A small part of me did wonder though - that if my wife *did* want to persevere with the marriage, if I would cave.

 

Carriages,

 

You have made some good points, and have progressed.

 

Only you can decide what's best for you, and if you go back to the marriage, your will will decide, too.

 

Regardless, you should reconcile about the affair, make SURE she knows you are totally sorry and remorseful about it.....

 

Then, at some point in time, decide if you want to go back to her, giving her 110%, or if you want to leave and forget the whole thing. Right now, you have a choice.... and that choice may or may not be available as time passes.

 

And, if you really want to go back into the marriage, you'll both have to be on page one, with a good discussion on parameters, boundaries, problems, goals, etc.

 

As for counselors... you're totally right that most of them are crap. Getting a really good one that really helps is a crap shoot. I've been through some 20 of them, and only 2 were good enough for real help, and a few were down right destructive. So, be careful there, but a good one is worth their weight in gold.

 

[] You've made mistakes, we ALL do. You have emotions, and we all do, and you will struggle with them for awhile. The fog will lift, and suspect it's already lifting. You will figure out where you want to go, and hopefully make some good choices.

 

Still hanging in there for you......

Edited October 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[cocorico]

So it is still her fault? You are still blame shifting after everything you have read here?

 

I don't read this as blaming, or it being "her fault". "Fundamental things about the way she is" suggests to me something like Carriages having to come to terms with his W having attributes that she can't (or is unlikely to) change - though these are issues he struggles with.

 

My H's late father has Asperger's. Ultimately, his mother couldn't live with it, and left him. Later, his GF struggled, too, but learned to accept that that was how he was, and not take it personally, and so she was far better able to cope with it.

 

I don't know what "fundamental things" Carrages is referring to, and he's chosen not to disclose, but if you think about the spouse of an alcoholic, an Aspie, someone with OCD, someone who is chronically obese, someone with ongoing mental health problems, someone with chronic health issues, etc - is it "blaming" their spouse to be honest and admit that their spouse's condition might be taking a toll on the R - possibly more than their partner can sustain? Is it "their (partner's) fault" if they say, I need to think carefully if I can really commit fully to a M with an alcoholic / Aspie / schizophrenic / etc? Isn't that just being realistic?

[truncated]

I don't read this as blaming, or it being "her fault". "Fundamental things about the way she is" suggests to me something like Carriages having to come to terms with his W having attributes that she can't (or is unlikely to) change - though these are issues he struggles with.

 

My H's late father has Asperger's. Ultimately, his mother couldn't live with it, and left him. Later, his GF struggled, too, but learned to accept that that was how he was, and not take it personally, and so she was far better able to cope with it.

 

I don't know what "fundamental things" Carrages is referring to, and he's chosen not to disclose, but if you think about the spouse of an alcoholic, an Aspie, someone with OCD, someone who is chronically obese, someone with ongoing mental health problems, someone with chronic health issues, etc - is it "blaming" their spouse to be honest and admit that their spouse's condition might be taking a toll on the R - possibly more than their partner can sustain? Is it "their (partner's) fault" if they say, I need to think carefully if I can really commit fully to a M with an alcoholic / Aspie / schizophrenic / etc? Isn't that just being realistic?

 

 

No matter what traits a spouse may have, they can not force their husband or wife to cheat. that is all on them. They always had other options, yet they chose to have an affair.

 

A person who knows anything about a reconciliation, especially when the ws has left the marriage for some time, will understand that the first step in reconciling isn't a complete dissection of all the faults of the bs. In fact, that is a strategy that is doomed to fail.

 

It's not a difficult thing for a bs to say that they want their ws back, but when the rubber hist the road, it takes a lot more than just the ws coming back. It takes the ws having a spirit of humility, of them understanding ( or at least trying to ) just how much they hurt their bs, and working to make them feel safe enough to start rebuilding.

 

Once the bs feels safe enough, they can begin to work on the problems in the relationship, and they are almost never one sided. No matter what flaws a bs has, the ws is almost never blameless in the problems.

 

Finding a counselor can be really helpful, but a counselor who only tells you what you want to hear is useless.

[cocorico]

No matter what traits a spouse may have, they can not force their husband or wife to cheat. that is all on them. They always had other options, yet they chose to have an affair.

 

 

If you read the context in which the OP posted that comment, you will see that it had nothing to do with "forcing him to cheat", and I did not respond to it in the context you cite. The OP was describing his ambivalence about returning to the M, given that he had these concerns - which predated the A, and predated the M.

[Carriages]

If you read the context in which the OP posted that comment, you will see that it had nothing to do with "forcing him to cheat", and I did not respond to it in the context you cite. The OP was describing his ambivalence about returning to the M, given that he had these concerns - which predated the A, and predated the M.

 

Thanks!!!

 

I'm not sure why people have trouble getting this. Nothing "forced me to cheat" and it was not in any way my wife's "fault". But the cauldron of issues (including the 'elephants in the room of which I spoke earlier) which all predated the A were definitely a two way street.

 

Yes, I wish I had dealt with them differently.

[qubist]

Thanks!!!

 

I'm not sure why people have trouble getting this. Nothing "forced me to cheat" and it was not in any way my wife's "fault". But the cauldron of issues (including the 'elephants in the room of which I spoke earlier) which all predated the A were definitely a two way street.

 

Yes, I wish I had dealt with them differently.

tough one here, I understand how hard must be for you, it would've been easier if your wife rejected you after the affair and asked for divorce but to add to your misery she actually begged you to stay.

would be possible for you to find some happiness and relative satisfaction in your life with her? absolutely, except it will take you a huge mental fight.

[Carriages]

tough one here, I understand how hard must be for you, it would've been easier if your wife rejected you after the affair and asked for divorce but to add to your misery she actually begged you to stay.

would be possible for you to find some happiness and relative satisfaction in your life with her? absolutely, except it will take you a huge mental fight.

 

Precisely the (depressing) conclusion I have come to myself.

 

Just as I don't have a crystal ball, I don't expect you guys to either. But getting others' viewpoints has been invaluable, and helped me shed light on a few things. Many thanks.

[OldRover]

Precisely the (depressing) conclusion I have come to myself.

 

Just as I don't have a crystal ball, I don't expect you guys to either. But getting others' viewpoints has been invaluable, and helped me shed light on a few things. Many thanks.

 

Carriages,

 

Unfortunately, you'll have a mental fight no matter what you choose.... there will be questions of "did I do the right thing, and what if?" You will want to get those out of your might at some point and concentrate on where you're really going.

 

And, all of this will take time and effort. And a LOT will be mental and attitude.

 

Many of us here have been through similar and hopefully the comments here can give you some insight. However, the many of us may have ended up with totally different results.... some left the wife, some stayed, some kept the OW/OM, and I'd bet that most grieved over the loss of one or the other, and had a hard time putting that behind them...... and some had other issues, too.

 

There is no cookie cutter answer, but there are some things that have been found to help success and get the job done, and there's tons of reading out there on that. And, you'll even find some differences in advise from experts. You have a lot on your shoulders, and hopefully you'll find the right direction.

 

Keep us posted.

[cocorico]

And I went to counseling to seek clarity. I think for it to be helpful, you have to have committed to the marriage and the relationship first.

 

If you want clarity, the client is you rather than the R, so I would recommend IC rather than MC for that.

 

If you want to improve / renegotiate / dissolve the R amicably, MC can help with that.

[cocorico]

Carriages,

 

Unfortunately, you'll have a mental fight no matter what you choose.... there will be questions of "did I do the right thing, and what if?" You will want to get those out of your might at some point and concentrate on where you're really going.

 

And, all of this will take time and effort. And a LOT will be mental and attitude.

 

Many of us here have been through similar and hopefully the comments here can give you some insight. However, the many of us may have ended up with totally different results.... some left the wife, some stayed, some kept the OW/OM, and I'd bet that most grieved over the loss of one or the other, and had a hard time putting that behind them...... and some had other issues, too.

 

There is no cookie cutter answer, but there are some things that have been found to help success and get the job done, and there's tons of reading out there on that. And, you'll even find some differences in advise from experts. You have a lot on your shoulders, and hopefully you'll find the right direction.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Agree.

 

There is no "easy out" here. Any choice will leave you with some turmoil, and likely some regret. You need to make the choice that allows you to live most authentically - whichever that is - if it is to be sustainable in the long run.

[Mr. Lucky]

You need to make the choice that allows you to live most authentically - whichever that is - if it is to be sustainable in the long run.

 

Agreed. Whatever you do, whether it's walking back in that door or moving on, you have to be able to picture yourself in that same place 5 years from now. In your situation, re-engaging with your marriage isn't about making it 5 days or 5 months. If the thought of being in a relationship with your wife makes you feel like Jimmy Stewart in Vertigo, you should consider whether you're doing the right thing for either one of you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Carriages]

Agreed. Whatever you do, whether it's walking back in that door or moving on, you have to be able to picture yourself in that same place 5 years from now. In your situation, re-engaging with your marriage isn't about making it 5 days or 5 months. If the thought of being in a relationship with your wife makes you feel like Jimmy Stewart in Vertigo, you should consider whether you're doing the right thing for either one of you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Kevin Spacey in "American Beauty" would be a closer analogy.

[Mr. Lucky]

Kevin Spacey in "American Beauty" would be a closer analogy.

 

The respective movie references may be relative to our ages. Never enjoyed American Beauty, the relationship with his daughter's friend creeped me out...

 

Mr. Lucky

[cocorico]

Kevin Spacey in "American Beauty" would be a closer analogy.

 

I *loved* American Beauty.

 

You're disconnected, ready to flip burgers and get killed by your scary neighbour - so long as you find peace in death?

[Carriages]

The respective movie references may be relative to our ages. Never enjoyed American Beauty, the relationship with his daughter's friend creeped me out...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Yes, in fact the second time I saw that movie (actually fairly recently) I felt the same. But I did identify with his feeling of lobotomized emptiness.

 

I used to feel like Elanor Rigby - leaving my brain in a jar by door.

[cocorico]

Yes, in fact the second time I saw that movie (actually fairly recently) I felt the same. But I did identify with his feeling of lobotomized emptiness.

 

I used to feel like Elanor Rigby - leaving my brain in a jar by door.

 

It was her face (Eleanor Rigby) that she kept in a jar by the door.

 

Lobotomised emptiness is not promising. If that's really what you think you'll be returning to (and brainsplat on the wall behind you) I'd seriously caution you to reconsider.

[Carriages]

It would be what I would return to without a concerted effort (on my part). Returning to the pre-affair marital status quo is just not an option.

[Ladyjane14]

Precisely the (depressing) conclusion I have come to myself.

 

Just as I don't have a crystal ball, I don't expect you guys to either. But getting others' viewpoints has been invaluable, and helped me shed light on a few things. Many thanks.

 

 

I'm lost... what's the source of 'depression'? Is it going home to be with your wife, or is it doing the mental work necessary to improve yourself?

[Carriages]

I'm lost... what's the source of 'depression'? Is it going home to be with your wife, or is it doing the mental work necessary to improve yourself?

 

No, I *want* to improve myself, and am more than happy to do that mental work.

 

What I am afraid of is when the mental work starts to feel insincere. When the elephants in the room resurface and the devil inside me starts laughing that I made the wrong decision, that I returned only because I didn't have the guts to leave...... that kind of stuff.

 

I know myself well enough to know at some point the mental work will start to feel insincere. That's a given. What isn't, is whether I can put the brakes on to stop myself descending into negativity and ****ing things up again.

[sandylee1]

If the elephants that predate the affair were discussed and your wife didn't change.....what makes you think she is capable of doing so now?

 

In all this time she's been saying she wants you back. ...has she ever mentioned those issues?

 

I'm wondering if you've thought about the message you're sending to your kids. ....I'm not sure of their ages, but how healthy is it for them to see a marriage without love on both sides.

 

If your kids visited you when you lived with the OW, do you not think they saw a more loving relationship then?

 

Normally a WS would be prepared to do the heavy lifting, be ever so remorseful and do anything for reconciliation.....but I don't see any of that in your posts at all. Maybe it's because your W is the one who wants this more than you and you feel you don't need to show remorse, because she's desperate to have you back.........is that the case?

 

Would you not prefer a relationship of equals? You seem to hold the power and there is rarely respect when one spouse holds the power.

 

There are some relationships where one partner is more of a catch than the other.....usually where a stranger would see them and think....."He/she could do way better for him/herself".......Is that the case with you and your wife?

 

Sorry...lots of questions and comments from me, but I also wonder if your wife held out hope because you never filed for D.

[ladydesigner]

Are you still married?

 

Yes I am for the time being.

[Ladyjane14]

No, I *want* to improve myself, and am more than happy to do that mental work.

 

What I am afraid of is when the mental work starts to feel insincere. When the elephants in the room resurface and the devil inside me starts laughing that I made the wrong decision, that I returned only because I didn't have the guts to leave...... that kind of stuff.

 

I know myself well enough to know at some point the mental work will start to feel insincere. That's a given. What isn't, is whether I can put the brakes on to stop myself descending into negativity and ****ing things up again.

 

I really do think that reading list I mentioned earlier would help you immensely. Gottman refers to our interactions with our mate in terms of "Nice, Neutral, and Nasty" boxes, so you become cognizant of how you're approaching a given interaction. He also goes into quite a bit of detail about the harm done when we make "negative comps" (negative comparisons) and how they diminish affection for our partner.

 

Once you can SEE what's turning the gears in your thought process, you have a whole lot more control.

 

Now, that's not to say it's an easy path. It's quite the opposite. But there ARE tools you can develop to combat stinkin' thinkin'.

[OldRover]

Yes I am for the time being.

 

 

<<<<If my WH would have addressed our M problems after his A I would have laughed in his face. Are u kidding me?>>>>

 

And let us know how this works in the future.... you have some serious problems to address, but you need to start another thread, not appropriate here.