I need........... support

[Carriages]

Sounds like fake it til you make it - for the next 40 years. Without a trace or sarcasm or irony, I'll say good luck with that.

 

Wish I had my DeLorean, could jump you ahead 5 years. At that point I'd guess you would have found out the hard what some of those here, having already lived it, are trying to tell you in advance...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Touche! But here's the thing. Some affair rebuilding advice says literally those words "fake it till you make it" (although I concede that I doubt they mean 40 years). But here's a question. Am I a better person if I dissolve this cleanly, put the kids through a divorce, suck up the pain for another year or so then rebuild; or go back, and fake it for as long as takes to become fully genuine (acknowledging that there's a risk it might never)?

[Popsicle]

No road you take will be perfect. Just saying. That's what it comes to when we get older.

[Cymbeline]

Touche! But here's the thing. Some affair rebuilding advice says literally those words "fake it till you make it" (although I concede that I doubt they mean 40 years). But here's a question. Am I a better person if I dissolve this cleanly, put the kids through a divorce, suck up the pain for another year or so then rebuild; or go back, and fake it for as long as takes to become fully genuine (acknowledging that there's a risk it might never)?

 

I think divorce is really a last resort when you have children - to be undertaken when life together as a family is damaging because you cannot get along as a couple. I believe the 'better' thing is to make a go of it if you can. I can imagine you are reluctant to put your family through further disappointment and hurt should you try and fail. Only you know how bad things are at home. I guess they are not obviously bad if your wife is fairly satisfied.

 

Divorce does damage children Im afraid, and affects their future relationships. After your infidelity, that ship has sailed to a degree, but you can teach them that the ship may be righted after disaster if things go well.

 

Your OW isn't really going to be a realistic long term option. She is just too young. What is in her that made her want to be with a so much older married man? It's unlikely to be attractive long term.

[Ladyjane14]

Touche! But here's the thing. Some affair rebuilding advice says literally those words "fake it till you make it" (although I concede that I doubt they mean 40 years). But here's a question. Am I a better person if I dissolve this cleanly, put the kids through a divorce, suck up the pain for another year or so then rebuild; or go back, and fake it for as long as takes to become fully genuine (acknowledging that there's a risk it might never)?

 

There's nothing 'inauthentic' about making a choice to engage as long as you're making that choice fully. Sometimes, as one is going through the process, the feelings of commitment and empathy are for your spouse, sometimes they're for yourself, and sometimes they're for the marital union... you/me/us.

 

So the "fake it 'til you make it" advice is sound, so long as you understand the underlying concept. If we all wait around to know what the outcome will be, all we do is wait around. No one has a crystal ball to see the future. The choice is whether or not to engage in the recovery process.

 

The process is fluid, not static. So your strength is played out day to day upon your resolve to stay with your choice.

[Got it]

Superficially, she seems the same - if anything, calmer. She loves me (although I have often wondered if what she has is "need" rather than "love"). Of course, it's entirely possible that if I did go back, once the initial euphoria had died I would be on the receiving end of some major (deserved) wrath which would hinder our recovery...

 

You think her wrath would hinder recovery? What do you think recovery looks like? What do you think the path of recovery is made up of?

 

Again, I think you need to do some research in reconciliation before you make a decision so you full understand what you are getting into and what is expected of you. I am afraid you are taking more of a rugsweeping approach than true reconciliation.

 

My mother had an affair when we were very young and they stayed together. The did not do the work needed and I don't think they actual recovered. Time just marched on. It became just one of so many issues in their very toxic and unhappy marriage that directly impacted the kids. They finally divorced when the oldest turned 18.

 

When we found out about the affair, we didn't know growing up, it was just another sign of their dysfunctional marriage and another indicator that they should have divorced so many years earlier.

[truncated]

What??? Of course the questions mattered before. I left my wife because my marriage had been languishing forever, some things seemed unfixable, I had been researching leaving for ages THEN I had an affair. Leaving actually seemed like the right, honest thing to do. Once I left, I was eaten alive by guilt, couldn't fully commit to the OW and it's turned into a huge mess.

 

And no, I trust myself never to commit adultery ever again. That much, I am sure of.

 

Okay, so you say you will never cheat again, fair enough. But what's to stop you from leaving again, the next time you think you might have an opportunity to do so?

 

The reasons you give for wanting to stay with your wife before were there when you cheated and left. They didn't matter then, so why do they matter now? You also say that you thought that leaving was the right thing to do then. it doesn't sound like anything has changed, so why go back?

 

If you care at all about your w, you will either be all in your marriage or all out.

 

You should tell her you are uncomfortable with making a decision at this time...and that you have decided to live alone and not be in a relationship at all.

 

Can you do that? Because honestly...the last thing you need is to be in a relationship with anyone.

 

 

You should tell her that, and also that she should feel free to date and maybe meet someone else. You have kept her hanging on, dangling this carrot in front of her and kept her from fully healing from the wound you have caused.

 

I think part of you wants to know you have her to run back to, and allowing her to move on would take that away.

 

I'm not ignoring any advice; I'm digesting it all. There has been plenty said on here which has been quite nasty and malicious; although the moderators have deleted much of it. In terms of people "trying to help my wife"....... well, she's not on this forum. Let her seek her help where she may.

 

And I'm not sure how I've given the impression that I don't care "at all" what would be good for anyone else. If that was the case I would have walked away from my marriage, had minimal contact, got straight to lawyers and ignored everyone's pleas. My wife wants me back. So do my kids. I am not back, because I'm not certain it would succeed. And I am not yet certain it would fail either. But I AM certain that failure would be catastrophic for all concerned. What about that is not caring at all would be good for anyone else???

 

Just from reading this...stay as far away from your wife as possible.

 

 

 

As for people seeing it form your wife's perspective? If you go back to her, you will need to work as a team and her feelings and pain will matter...or will you just expect her her to keep quiet and not pester you with her problems?

Edited October 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Merge

[autumnnight]

IF you are going to attempt to reconcile, then there is one word in particular you need to study extensively and incorporate fully:

 

HUMILITY

Edited October 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Mrs. John Adams]

For the sake of your wife and children...please just live a lone for awhile and get yourself together.

 

The last thing your family needs is for you to come back home....and then abandon them again when some 20 something sashays back into your life.

 

 

Until you can place upon yourself the deep pain you have put your wife through...and i am not talking about being sorry. I am talking about dying to self...putting aside the pain you feel for yourself...and replace it with the pain you have put on your wife. Until you can give her total and complete transparency....and total and complete empathy...she will never be able to trust you or forgive you.

 

This comes in baby steps...it doesn't happen overnight.

 

You say you have been to therapy and it did not help.....do you think that is the therapists fault or yours? Do you think you were open to healing? Do you think you were honest with the therapist?

 

The therapist cannot heal you...they can help you to heal your self....and you cannot help your wife to heal herself if you are not in the right mindset.

 

 

 

My husband and i still have moments...that the infidelity rears its ugly little head up just to remind us it is still there. It never goes away.

 

You cannot fake it...you cannot pretend....you cannot wish it away.....it forever remains a part of your life. It stays with you like any other tragedy.....because it was the death of your relationship as you knew it.

 

your wife wants the husband she thought she had back....but you are forever changed....and sadly...so is she....and it is totally your fault. You are responsible for making the decision to cheat. No excuses, no circumstances, no reasons.

Edited October 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Redundant and inflammatory content redacted

[stillafool]

Touche! But here's the thing. Some affair rebuilding advice says literally those words "fake it till you make it" (although I concede that I doubt they mean 40 years). But here's a question. Am I a better person if I dissolve this cleanly, put the kids through a divorce, suck up the pain for another year or so then rebuild; or go back, and fake it for as long as takes to become fully genuine (acknowledging that there's a risk it might never)?

 

You admitted in an earlier post that you basically settled for your wife and were never completely all in. Why after all of these years you actually think you're going to feel any different? Especially after you've already experienced the thrill of being with that younger woman. It will play on and stay on your mind. You will not lose your kids if you divorce. There is such a thing as shared custody.

[ladydesigner]

IF you are going to attempt to reconcile, then there is one word in particular you need to study extensively and incorporate fully:

 

HUMILITY

 

Yep and I'm not quite sensing that from the OP. Still seems to be all about him and his thoughts about the situation.

[ladydesigner]

OP you say you settled for your wife, but you want to make your M better than before.

 

I'm going to be somewhat bold and say that most M's after an A are not better than before. I think very few are. Very few M's successfully make it through R.

 

The road to R is similar to a wild rollercoasters you will have highs, but you will have lows so low that it brings you to the brink of D. R could go on for years. If you are already unsatisfied with your M trying to R isn't going to be a walk in the park. YOU have to suck it up. YOU have to take the brunt of your wife's anger and understand why she feels this way. YOU need to make sure she is healing from YOUR A.

 

Really think about this before you decide to drag your wife through more of your undecidedness about the quality of your M.

[carhill]

OP, one important aspect I learned in MC during my EA was the concept of accepting responsibility. We each make choices and are responsible for those choices. As autonomous beings with free will, we have complete control of our own choices and no control whatsoever over the choices of others. Hence, to reconcile, you and your spouse will each choose to follow a path to reconciliation, voluntarily, accepting your joint and several responsibility for your own choices in the past and making the choice in the present to continue your partnership. Are you ready to do that? Your spouse has indicated that she is ready, apparently. If you are ready, how do you propose to accomplish your task? What's your first choice?

 

One question to ask your spouse is does she want you to live alone away from her and the children? Does she want you to live her and the children while working through this?

 

IMO, if you and she have the desire to reconcile and still love each other, you can accomplish pretty much anything the team puts its mind to. Teamwork is key. Communication is key. Owning your choices is key. A professional skilled in this kind of recovery can help. You and she jointly choose to seek out that help. You're, jointly, in charge. Where do you want to go?

[Carriages]

Yep and I'm not quite sensing that from the OP. Still seems to be all about him and his thoughts about the situation.

 

I just don't get why people are making this accusation.

 

My wife wants to reconcile. She's had plenty of counselling. She's still grieving, but getting better. And for the past 15 months I've thought of nothing much else than the needs of my wife & family (as well as my own). But that doesn't extend as far as "divorcing her for her own good". The situation really is pretty much about what *I* do next. So tell me, what more could I say here to indicate I do in fact give a damn??

[autumnnight]

I just don't get why people are making this accusation.

 

My wife wants to reconcile. She's had plenty of counselling. She's still grieving, but getting better. And for the past 15 months I've thought of nothing much else than the needs of my wife & family (as well as my own). But that doesn't extend as far as "divorcing her for her own good". The situation really is pretty much about what *I* do next. So tell me, what more could I say here to indicate I do in fact give a damn??

 

Most of your posts have been about how you feel, what you are thinking, all the "baggage" that was forced onto you, and the fact that your wife wants you back.

 

Humility to me would be more along the lines of: I know I deeply hurt my wife. I deeply regret the pain I caused her, and I know it was my choice and my responsibility. I will do whatever it takes to help my wife heal and feel safe with me again. Her well-being is my number 1 concern.

[Mr. Lucky]

Am I a better person if I dissolve this cleanly, put the kids through a divorce, suck up the pain for another year or so then rebuild; or go back, and fake it for as long as takes to become fully genuine (acknowledging that there's a risk it might never)?

 

This isn't some abstract exercise whose goal is to become a "better person", whatever that means. This is about living a real, authentic life based on honest emotions and a legitimate connection to your partner. And allowing your current spouse to experience the same.

 

While you have some fondness for her based on history, doesn't seem you love your wife in the same raw way you cared about your OP. And while she may need you to sustain the life she wants, I'd guess she has the same detachment from you.

 

That's the barrier you'd have to break through to rekindle the kind of marriage that would sustain the second half of your life. And towing a full cart of affair baggage behind you, the hill will probably be pretty steep.

 

You may feel you don't lose anything by trying and that may be true - for you. I hope you stick around and keep us updated on your progress...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Carriages]

OP you say you settled for your wife, but you want to make your M better than before.

 

I'm going to be somewhat bold and say that most M's after an A are not better than before. I think very few are. Very few M's successfully make it through R.

 

The road to R is similar to a wild rollercoasters you will have highs, but you will have lows so low that it brings you to the brink of D. R could go on for years. If you are already unsatisfied with your M trying to R isn't going to be a walk in the park. YOU have to suck it up. YOU have to take the brunt of your wife's anger and understand why she feels this way. YOU need to make sure she is healing from YOUR A.

 

Really think about this before you decide to drag your wife through more of your undecidedness about the quality of your M.

Well this post pretty much sums up my entire dilemma.

 

You do read stories about "he had an affair, we reconciled and now two years later we're stronger than ever before". (I guess you don't hear so much the stories of "we tried to reconcile, but it feels false and now we're all stuck). I want to believe genuine reconciliation is possible for our situation. But how does one ever know?? When it comes down to it, all you can do is look at the facts, look in your hearts, and then make a call.

 

I think some of it depends on how things were before. I actually think if your marriage was fantastic before, then the outlook is perhaps not that good. You'll never reach those levels again, and there'll always be a sense of what you've lost. If, on the other hand you feel your marriage never reached its potential before and both parties had the capacity to do better..... maybe a concerted process of reconciliation will take the marriage to where it should've been in the first place.

[qubist]

Well this post pretty much sums up my entire dilemma.

 

You do read stories about "he had an affair, we reconciled and now two years later we're stronger than ever before". (I guess you don't hear so much the stories of "we tried to reconcile, but it feels false and now we're all stuck). I want to believe genuine reconciliation is possible for our situation. But how does one ever know?? When it comes down to it, all you can do is look at the facts, look in your hearts, and then make a call.

 

I think some of it depends on how things were before. I actually think if your marriage was fantastic before, then the outlook is perhaps not that good. You'll never reach those levels again, and there'll always be a sense of what you've lost. If, on the other hand you feel your marriage never reached its potential before and both parties had the capacity to do better..... maybe a concerted process of reconciliation will take the marriage to where it should've been in the first place.

Genuine reconciliation is possible, but it has to come from a deep believe in it, and it would demand a lot of effort and sacrifice. what people here are trying to point out to you is that the fact that you are only considering it because your wife and kids are asking you back is not enough. who knows why your wife wants you back be? most likely because of lack of self esteem, will that be a good ground to start the "fight" of saving the marriage, I just do not think so. I'm afraid you'd just make it worst for all involved including your kids.

take your time to see who you really are, if you find deep in you that you still love your wife then go help her heal, do not assume that just because she wants you back she is fine. she is probably in deep pain

[Carriages]

Thanks. I'm not considering reconciliation only because my wife and kids are asking me back. There's a strong possibility that it will turn out the best for all concerned, me included. But there's also - as so many people have pointed out - good evidence to suggest it would fail. And that would be catastrophic.

 

But I'm starting to get a true sense and feeling of where I'd have to be mentally for it to happen, thanks to the advice of some here.

 

Yes, low self esteem is one of my wife's issues, and probably does contribute to why she wants me back (at least in the early phases). But that's not the whole story. She says she has felt genuine love from me in the past. She sees me as a good provider, a good Dad. And I she pragmatically realizes the other options - of split finances, of starting all over with someone else that may not turn out to be any better, or a somewhat lonely single existence may well turn out to be worse than being married to me - even if it does continue to be a bit of a struggle.

[Ladyjane14]

I just don't get why people are making this accusation.

 

My wife wants to reconcile. She's had plenty of counselling. She's still grieving, but getting better. And for the past 15 months I've thought of nothing much else than the needs of my wife & family (as well as my own). But that doesn't extend as far as "divorcing her for her own good". The situation really is pretty much about what *I* do next. So tell me, what more could I say here to indicate I do in fact give a damn??

 

It's probably because you still appear to have the adultery equivalent of "beer goggles" on.

 

You know, there's a reason why people refer to cheating spouses as being "in the fog" or "in affairyland". They're like the drunkest guy in your crew when you're out on a guy's night out. Dude is pretty sure that the sad old bar-fly batting her fake eyelashes at him from the other end of the bar is a former Miss America pageant winner and he just can't believe his good luck. Meanwhile, his buddies are smirking, knowing it's a coyote ugly situation where he'll be trying to chew his own arm off by daybreak.

 

You haven't looked at the former girlfriend with CLEAR eyes yet. You haven't examined and corrected the mental gymnastics you would've had to utilize in order to give yourself permission to cheat. And you haven't given a compelling reason as to why you want back into the marriage.

 

All that said... if you can make a decision to give it your 100% best effort, what have you got to lose that isn't already lost? Take your beer goggles off and give it a shot if your wife will still have you. Just know that it's going to be tough, humbling work, and it starts with recognizing that your wayward thought process was 100% egocentric. If you succeed, you'll grow and so will everyone around you. If you fail, you'll be right back where you are now. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Carriages]

Yes, I do still suffer from beer goggles.

 

The AP - while stellar in some ways - did have quite a string of red flags too. I've done my best to "feel" those negatives... but still the fog remains.

 

I bagged up all her gifts yesterday and threw them in the trash.... then got them out again. It was too painful. I'll leave them bagged up for now and trash them again when I can think "meh, whatever".

 

Any other advice?

[NewLeaf512]

Thanks. I'm not considering reconciliation only because my wife and kids are asking me back. There's a strong possibility that it will turn out the best for all concerned, me included. But there's also - as so many people have pointed out - good evidence to suggest it would fail. And that would be catastrophic.

 

.

May I ask what you mean by "me included " how would it be best for you?

 

I believe you love your wife and family. In what way you love your wife I'm not sure. You indicated in a previous post that you didn't believe that you were ever "in love" with your wife (please correct me if I have misunderstood)

 

Have you ever been "in love" with anyone? Were they "in love" with you? If so I have found that to be pretty intoxicating and hopefully it matures into deep marital love that includes love, trust, fun, friendship, connection, family, and sex.

Is that what you had or would be aiming for in the R?

If so, the common thread is strong love for each other which is the foundation of the House of Reconciliation to be built.

[Sassy Girl]

Most of your posts have been about how you feel, what you are thinking, all the "baggage" that was forced onto you, and the fact that your wife wants you back.

 

Humility to me would be more along the lines of: I know I deeply hurt my wife. I deeply regret the pain I caused her, and I know it was my choice and my responsibility. I will do whatever it takes to help my wife heal and feel safe with me again. Her well-being is my number 1 concern.

 

If you can't get to this point^^^^ Then you need to let the marriage go.

 

You acknowledge your wife has low self esteem which indicates to me also that she won't make decisions in her own best interests but rather based in fear and that's just not good for her in the long term.

 

If she suffered low self esteem then what you have done to her has likely destroyed it for all time unless she gets a lot of good therapy. Support her in that alone if you need to, because she is the mother of your chikdren and she needs to teach your children how to love themselves and believe in themselves. How can she credibly do this when you have shredded her own value and self worth? Its like putting on your own oxygen mask before anyone else's.

 

Support her in valuing herself. Because any self respecting person who loves them self would not put up with what you have done to them. They would stand up for themselves and demand better for themselves. And her being a doormat to you doesn't teach your children anything positive about relationships. They are at very formative years right now and you are modeling relationships for them. You might what to think about what values you have shown them the last 15 months and ask yourself if you've been the best role model you could be for them. What have you taught them? Start there

[Carriages]

Lots to comment on in the above two posts. Thanks guys.

 

NewLeaf - an authentic, loving relationship with the person I originally married indeed would be the best outcome for me - if it is possible. If it isn't, then we have to be brave and face divorce. Returning to the status quo (or worse) isn't an option.

 

Have I been in love with someone? Yes, with my AP. It was/is a feeling of deep connection, that whatever there was inside me, it would be safe. Sex felt committed, and connected. The love was real. The extent to which I feel grief and a sense of loss now is testament to that.

 

The love was real, but was it true?? Perhaps not. Perhaps it was only intense because all the potential pitfalls, all the incompatibilities and trials we would face got swept under the carpet. And perhaps it's only because of that that it was "allowed" to feel so intense.

 

But my wife and I never had even a remotely similar experience. We were young. We didn't know who we were. We both had religious hangups. She rejected me for a bit, then asked me to marry her, which caused resentment. I wouldn't want to imply we had "nothing" - but we didn't have nearly enough life experience or relationship experience to justify getting married. Do I love my wife? This is a question I ask myself on a constant basis. My immediate answer is Yes! And then there's a "but". The but is along the lines of "as a special friend", "as someone who knows me", "as someone I've shared my life with"....... but is it love in the true husband/wife sense?? I just don't know.

 

Sassy Girl, I acknowledge and agree with all your points. I've been a dreadful role model. But I actually feel more guilty about my behaviour leading up to the affair, even more than I do about the affair itself. That I withdrew. That I avoided the tough issues. That I thought a relationship that wasn't genuine would be good enough as long as things were okay on the surface. The kids witnessed that for years, and that's the stuff I'm really ashamed of.

 

Ironically, when I announced the affair and we separated in July last year, I was strong, did act with integrity, and I think the kids actually respected me for it. I declared I'd done a terrible thing. I said I wanted to be an honest person from now. I put as much energy as I could into them, and it paid dividends. However, a year's uncertainty has sapped my strength and resolve, and now I'm not functioning at anything like the same level.

[Ladyjane14]

Yes, I do still suffer from beer goggles.

 

The AP - while stellar in some ways - did have quite a string of red flags too. I've done my best to "feel" those negatives... but still the fog remains.

 

I bagged up all her gifts yesterday and threw them in the trash.... then got them out again. It was too painful. I'll leave them bagged up for now and trash them again when I can think "meh, whatever".

 

Any other advice?

 

Yeah... put them back in the trash.

 

You know, men sometimes believe that women aren't just as capable or just as inclined to use sex as an ego boost. It feels good to be flattered, to have someone make you feel special, more attractive than anyone else. And for females... it feels pretty good to beat another woman's time.

 

Note that once you became available, despite the incidents of indecision on your part, she booted your ass. If it really was what you thought it was, don't you think she'd have worked through those issues? If the situation involved reversed gender order... say, single man gets involved with married older woman, then ditches after she leaves home, what's your observation now?

 

You strike me as somewhat stubborn in your thought process, clinging to it even. Maybe that's because if you take those beer goggles off, you'd have to really LOOK at all the facts. You'd have to see the devastation surrounding you, and you'd be called to action to repair it as best you can.

 

Spend 15 minutes assuming that everything you thought you knew is WRONG. Just look at the facts. Then throw all that crap back in the trash can where it belongs.

[Popsicle]

A wise male friend used to tell me that men who act indecisive and sit on the fence end up losing both women. I think this will happen in this case but maybe that's for the best.