I need........... support

[LivingWaterPlease]

Carriages, this is the reason I don't believe you shouldn't go back to your wife at this point.

 

If you do go back to your wife at any point I would advise you to be sure you're going back having gotten over the relationship with OW.

 

I believe you, your W and your OW would be best served by your taking time to go through IC and be away from both W and OW. I would fully disclose to your wife why you're doing this so that she knows you're not throwing in the towel on ever being with her again. For that matter, if you and OW are still speaking I would think it good to also tell her what you're doing.

 

After six months to a year of being on your own with IC I would think your emotions and judgment would be clearer and more settled on how you really feel, who you are and what you can offer your W, your OW, or any other woman.

 

I can't recall whether or not you mentioned that you have children but am assuming at your age that you do. If so, I hope you and your wife are able to put things back together with the help of MC. However, I would encourage you not to try to do so without help from a counselor.

 

Tried to edit my post but it was too late.

 

The first line should read, "This is the reason I don't believe you should (not shouldn't) go back to your wife at this point." (The reason being you clearly state in your first post that you would go back to OW if she were willing. If you go back to your wife it should be because you want to be with her, not because OW doesn't want to be with you.)

[Robert]

Moderator's note:

Due to many deleted posts as well as several infractions in this thread, posters are reminded to post within Loveshack.org guidelines, or not to post at all.

 

LoveShack.org: Community Guidelines

 

 

Thank you,

~6

[Carriages]

Thanks again to those who have posted constructive replies. Can I say for the record I believe that there is never any excuse for adultery, and I know I did a terrible thing. That said, when it happened, I wasn't in a good place, hadn't been for many years - and that definitely was not just of my own making.

 

I deliberately haven't given my whole marriage story - that would take several threads, and I don't want people to zone out. My marriage had the usual problems which are fixable - lack of intimacy, stonewalling, arguments, over familiarity, boredom etc. When those things weren't there, it functioned. It even had moments of happiness. But it was never ever "great". This is because of a couple of elephants in the room, which I have wrestled with for the whole 25 years we were married. They are things which can't change, and I always knew that. I did my best to accept them, but ultimately failed.

 

My wife didn't have these issues. She thought we were happy. A counsellor did identify the marriage had worked much better for her than it had for me.

 

So, my current internal conflict is - can I now get past these "elephants" when I never have been able to before? If I gave more love, jumped back into my marriage with both feet, would they cease to be elephants? I just don't know. The consequences of failure again would seem to be catastrophic.

 

To those that say I need to stay away from all women, I need to take time to heal, discover who I am and why I did theses terrible things..... I understand your point, but disagree. Firstly, as I have discovered it is very hard anyway to reach "zen" when you are also dealing with loneliness, indecisiveness, guilt, the pain of separation, kids pain (yes I have 3 aged 18, 16 and 12), trying to cobble together a new existence..... there is just too much "life noise" going on at the same time. Secondly, I don't believe any relationship ever thrived from extended periods outside it. If my marriage was the way to go, the best thing for it would be to be in it, fully committed. More time and distance from it will not help it. But to go back into it without a clear feeling it will succeed will be wrong also. I know that. Part of the difficulty is my wife has pleaded for me to return from day 1. So have the kids. That also gets inside my head and messes with it.

[whatatangledweb]

I believe you need to deal with the elephants. Have you told your wife about them? Theraphy could really help you deal with it. I think you should be very honest with your wife about your internal conflict with her and the OW. You need to be honest and communicate for a marriage to have a chance at working.

[stillafool]

Please do not return to your wife. The guilt of leaving her for a younger woman was eating you alive but the truth is you are in love with the younger woman. Try to get her back and work things out. Say goodbye to your ex wife for good this time and go with the younger woman. This is why you left the first time so stick to what you want. Free your wife (who you know you no longer want) up so she can meet the love of her life.

[goodyblue]

I was OW many moons ago. My husband left his ex and we have been together for some time. A couple of things I note are... my h has said from the MOMENT he left that he would NEVER go back. Also, she was perfectly happy in the marriage and was blindsided by the affair. If he had asked to come home 15 months after leaving, she would have let him.

 

So... I don't feel you should never go back or at least try to work on your marriage. It is possible that she was happy enough in the marriage that having you back would be ok if you worked out the things that are difficult for you. And off course there will have to be much repentance on your part. I honestly think it could work if you are sincere. That means no contact with OW ever.

 

The one thing that my h said that has stuck in my head is that when we talked about her being willing to take him back even in theory, he shook his head and said she would have found a way to make him pay. That, had he ever returned, she would have held it against him forever. So... that is something to consider.

[ladydesigner]

I was OW many moons ago. My husband left his ex and we have been together for some time. A couple of things I note are... my h has said from the MOMENT he left that he would NEVER go back. Also, she was perfectly happy in the marriage and was blindsided by the affair. If he had asked to come home 15 months after leaving, she would have let him.

 

So... I don't feel you should never go back or at least try to work on your marriage. It is possible that she was happy enough in the marriage that having you back would be ok if you worked out the things that are difficult for you. And off course there will have to be much repentance on your part. I honestly think it could work if you are sincere. That means no contact with OW ever.

 

The one thing that my h said that has stuck in my head is that when we talked about her being willing to take him back even in theory, he shook his head and said she would have found a way to make him pay. That, had he ever returned, she would have held it against him forever. So... that is something to consider.

 

Oh absolutely I agree with this! I will NEVER forget my WH's A with MOW, he took the A underground for 2 years that I thought we were in R (so i guess I was sort of like Plan B). My WH has paid and is still paying for his 'mistake.' When that stops, who the hell knows, it could go on forever for all I know or we may end up divorced. One thing that I lost for my WH BIGTIME is respect. I don't think I will ever respect him again after what he put me through. I can't imagine your BS being able to respect what you did. Who could honestly? If you can live with what you have done on top of everything else you don't like about your M then your M might be salvageable.

 

Many times I wish my WH would have left me for MOW, then I would have the chance to find someone worthy of my love. Now I'm stuck with a cheater who never stopped the A after dday...what a winner:sick:

[Maddieandtae]

Elephants in the room have been impossible for myself to "live" with. Unless these clumsy beasts are identified to both parties huge resentments will build up. Identifying them is only the first step, acknowledgement on both sides needs to be given and then working on each other's perspective of the situation will be hard work. To live within your marriage in an healthy way is going to be a real challenge and I do understand somewhat of what you face. Coping skills will need to be redefined.

[LivingWaterPlease]

Thanks again to those who have posted constructive replies. Can I say for the record I believe that there is never any excuse for adultery, and I know I did a terrible thing. That said, when it happened, I wasn't in a good place, hadn't been for many years - and that definitely was not just of my own making.

 

I deliberately haven't given my whole marriage story - that would take several threads, and I don't want people to zone out. My marriage had the usual problems which are fixable - lack of intimacy, stonewalling, arguments, over familiarity, boredom etc. When those things weren't there, it functioned. It even had moments of happiness. But it was never ever "great". This is because of a couple of elephants in the room, which I have wrestled with for the whole 25 years we were married. They are things which can't change, and I always knew that. I did my best to accept them, but ultimately failed.

 

My wife didn't have these issues. She thought we were happy. A counsellor did identify the marriage had worked much better for her than it had for me.

 

So, my current internal conflict is - can I now get past these "elephants" when I never have been able to before? If I gave more love, jumped back into my marriage with both feet, would they cease to be elephants? I just don't know. The consequences of failure again would seem to be catastrophic.

 

To those that say I need to stay away from all women, I need to take time to heal, discover who I am and why I did theses terrible things..... I understand your point, but disagree. Firstly, as I have discovered it is very hard anyway to reach "zen" when you are also dealing with loneliness, indecisiveness, guilt, the pain of separation, kids pain (yes I have 3 aged 18, 16 and 12), trying to cobble together a new existence..... there is just too much "life noise" going on at the same time. Secondly, I don't believe any relationship ever thrived from extended periods outside it. If my marriage was the way to go, the best thing for it would be to be in it, fully committed. More time and distance from it will not help it. But to go back into it without a clear feeling it will succeed will be wrong also. I know that. Part of the difficulty is my wife has pleaded for me to return from day 1. So have the kids. That also gets inside my head and messes with it.

 

Carriages, one thing that's concerning about going back to your wife is that you're in love with OW.

 

It seems as if it'd be really hard to R with W when you're in love with someone else.

 

The reason I suggested you take time away from both women is to clear your head and perhaps after some IC and six months to a year your feelings for OW would die down and you'd have a better chance to love (verb) your wife.

 

However, if you know for certain your ultimate goal is to put your family back together and think it would be more difficult to do so after taking time apart then I would encourage you to get back with your W sooner rather than later.

 

I do think you need to go to MC with your W before getting back together just to be sure you're doing it with guidance and that the timing is best suited for your R, though.

[OldRover]

Thanks again to those who have posted constructive replies. Can I say for the record I believe that there is never any excuse for adultery, and I know I did a terrible thing. That said, when it happened, I wasn't in a good place, hadn't been for many years - and that definitely was not just of my own making.

 

I deliberately haven't given my whole marriage story - that would take several threads, and I don't want people to zone out. My marriage had the usual problems which are fixable - lack of intimacy, stonewalling, arguments, over familiarity, boredom etc. When those things weren't there, it functioned. It even had moments of happiness. But it was never ever "great". This is because of a couple of elephants in the room, which I have wrestled with for the whole 25 years we were married. They are things which can't change, and I always knew that. I did my best to accept them, but ultimately failed.

 

My wife didn't have these issues. She thought we were happy. A counsellor did identify the marriage had worked much better for her than it had for me.

 

So, my current internal conflict is - can I now get past these "elephants" when I never have been able to before? If I gave more love, jumped back into my marriage with both feet, would they cease to be elephants? I just don't know. The consequences of failure again would seem to be catastrophic.

 

To those that say I need to stay away from all women, I need to take time to heal, discover who I am and why I did theses terrible things..... I understand your point, but disagree. Firstly, as I have discovered it is very hard anyway to reach "zen" when you are also dealing with loneliness, indecisiveness, guilt, the pain of separation, kids pain (yes I have 3 aged 18, 16 and 12), trying to cobble together a new existence..... there is just too much "life noise" going on at the same time. Secondly, I don't believe any relationship ever thrived from extended periods outside it. If my marriage was the way to go, the best thing for it would be to be in it, fully committed. More time and distance from it will not help it. But to go back into it without a clear feeling it will succeed will be wrong also. I know that. Part of the difficulty is my wife has pleaded for me to return from day 1. So have the kids. That also gets inside my head and messes with it.

 

Carriages,

 

With the elephants, you have brought another issue to the table, and those elephants need to be solved, or at least brought to a non issue, so the marriage can work. This "may" be a show stopper.

 

I'd still like to see you get back with your wife (not six month, or God forbid, a year from not, which is unlikely to work). But you have a few issues to solve first:

 

You need to be remorseful and really want to make your marriage work.

You need to totally eliminate the OW, and forget her.

You need to come to a solution with the elephants.

And both you and your wife will need to make a commitment to take the steps to make the marriage work.

[Popsicle]

Clearly neither you nor your wife wants out of the marriage, so go back. But never speak to the OW again.

[Carriages]

Thanks Popsicle. I don't want out of all the trimmings associated with my previous life and marriage. The kids, the family home, the family vacations, pancakes on a Sunday morning....... all great stuff. But the actual marriage relationship is what I'm ambivalent about, and where the problem is. When it's been bad, it's been as bad as bad can be. When it's been good, its been........ good enough, without ever being great. And this dates right back to when we were dating. Never once did I have that "yes! This is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with" feeling. I got married because I was young and stupid, I had pretty low self esteem, and she asked me and there seemed like no good reason to say no.

 

The remorse issue has come up a few times. Now, I can do the math. I know I did a terrible thing. I know I put people I love through agony through no fault of their own. But do I have that sickening, gut wrenching "oh I so wish I hadn't done this" feeling? To be honest, no. I feel more sad about the situation that led up to it.

 

In terms of the unchangeable "elephants in the room", without saying exactly what they are, they are issues important to me and are potential deal breakers. To go back, I would have to feel that with love (verb) they would turn into pussycats rather than elephants. But more work needs to be done to get me to that point.

[Carriages]

I'm not going to be too harsh.....

 

You made the choice of leaving your wife of X number of years for another woman...that's probably not something you did on a whim. It most certainly wasn't. I had been actively considering leaving well before the affair started.

With that in mind, what is different now? I believe my wife would do what she could. I believe I could behave myself and do what I could.

You clearly didn't love your wife enough, so what's the point in going back to her? That is the counter-argument to the above which I grapple with constantly.

 

Why do you want to go back home? Is it the kids? The finances? The whole package, the familiarity (see above)

 

Was it hard to trust the OW because she engaged in an affair with you? Partly, yes. Her lack of empathy towards my wife who was the innocent party was also a concern.

I'm sure your wife has gotten used to life without you, so I think it would be best to work on yourself and think how you can be a better partner in the future. To figure out what made you stray from your wife and if you get into another relationship, what is going to stop you being attracted to another young woman in the future.

 

Affairs are destructive and if they come to light, someone WILL ALWAYS get hurt. You've already hurt two women (although one brought it on herself), so there's no need to get back to your wife and cause a set back in her healing. I know. My wife is still pretty much pleading for my return - not so much verbally anymore, but it's pretty obvious that's how she feels. I wonder if she knows what's good for her..

 

Treat others the way you'd like to be treated.

I agree; this has always been my mantra but unfortunately when I'm failing at this dismally, it seems to become only apparent to me in retrospect.

[Cymbeline]

In purely practical terms, I would suggest you do a lot of reading about he nature of love and marriage and your intentions about the way you want to live the second half of your life and the legacy you leave.

 

You don't sound as though you are finished with your marriage and for me, the huge elephant that is storming around is that your OW is 25 to your 46. I know such a May to December relationship is not utterly impossible. It's pretty unlikely to last though. Try asking some honest friends how they see your actions and options. My understanding is that three of the hallmarks of an affair that follows this pattern are: a strong tendency to believe what you (the MM) wants to believe;!a very different view of the Ow compared to others who know her; a need to keep the

[Grumpybutfun]

Are the elephants lack of sex, wife gained weight, wife lost attractiveness or a roomate type of relationship? If so, you want your family, not your wife. You can still have your children without living a life without a good marriage. Your wife deserves someone who loves and accepts her with passion and respect....you settled...I wonder if she knows this?

G

[Carriages]

Are the elephants lack of sex, wife gained weight, wife lost attractiveness or a roomate type of relationship? If so, you want your family, not your wife. You can still have your children without living a life without a good marriage. Your wife deserves someone who loves and accepts her with passion and respect....you settled...I wonder if she knows this?

G

No, the elephants are not quite that superficial. For some reason I don't want to put them here....... they're private, and also I don't feel fully safe here yet. Maybe in time.

 

Yes, my wife does know I settled - at least on some level I know she does. She has previously confronted me on this; I skirted the issue but the answer was obvious.

[Carriages]

In purely practical terms, I would suggest you do a lot of reading about he nature of love and marriage and your intentions about the way you want to live the second half of your life and the legacy you leave.

I have done, and am doing. I have learned a lot, particularly about how I could have been a better husband. But I have learned little about how to decide where to go from here. I want a marriage that I, my wife and kids can be proud of (like I was with my own parents') or nothing.

You don't sound as though you are finished with your marriage and for me, the huge elephant that is storming around is that your OW is 25 to your 46.

Yes. The OW repeatedly protested that our age difference wasn't a factor, but for me, it sometimes was. Occasioanlly I felt like her Grandad. Edited October 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Grumpybutfun]

No, the elephants are not quite that superficial. For some reason I don't want to put them here....... they're private, and also I don't feel fully safe here yet. Maybe in time.

 

Yes, my wife does know I settled - at least on some level I know she does. She has previously confronted me on this; I skirted the issue but the answer was obvious.

 

Please don't list anything you feel uncomfortable listing...I wasn't trying to be intrusive....I was just using those silly examples to say that you settled, and since you settled, you are unhappy with your wife, not your family life. The question is do you continue to settle even if it means you are unhappy and she gets someone who would be with an AP if she had not dumped you. Marriage isn't something you want to revert back to out of complacency. It is something you have because it is your best option in life and makes your life better and more meaningful.

Good luck,

Grumps

[Popsicle]

Lack of trust, essentially.

 

I didn't totally trust the OW, and kept making "moves" to go back home (although never actually did). She was majorly hurt by this, the cycle repeated a few times until there really was nothing much left - although the "death phase" has taken nearly 4 months. I did make a full and genuine commitment to her at one point, but for her it was too little too late. She did have a sense of entitlement which I felt was out of whack with the reality of the situation.

 

I don't understand what the bolded means.

[Popsicle]

Has it ever occurred to you that you don't really want either woman?

[Carriages]

please don't list anything you feel uncomfortable listing...i wasn't trying to be intrusive....i was just using those silly examples to say that you settled, and since you settled, you are unhappy with your wife, not your family life.

 

one has spilled over into the other. The marriage issues have of course impaired the family dynamic sometimes. And on the other hand, we have had a child with difficulties which has been an enormous strain. But even before kids.......yep, i knew i had settled, and often contemplated other options. I thought to do so was normal. It was only recently, for example, that i realised there are men who *genuinely* want to spend time with their wives. I thought no-one (really) did!

the question is do you continue to settle even if it means you are unhappy and she gets someone who would be with an ap if she had not dumped you.

no. To come back, i would have to have an epiphany that my unhappiness was more internal than i ever wanted to admit, and was something i could do something about.

 

marriage isn't something you want to revert back to out of complacency. It is something you have because it is your best option in life and makes your life better and more meaningful.

i completely agree.

 

good luck,

grumps

thanks

Edited October 21, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Carriages]

I don't understand what the bolded means.

 

Maybe "entitlement" isn't quite the right word...... but there was certainly an expectation that my head would be clearer than it and far quicker than it was. Also, full commitment from me was expected instantly, right at the time I confessed & left home when my head was spinning out of control. I'd also be in the midst of dealing with things my trying help my kids cope, and she'd want to make travel plans etc....

[Carriages]

Has it ever occurred to you that you don't really want either woman?

 

Yes. And it has also occurred to me that I want each one (although the feeling of "wanting" my wife has to be searched for a bit)

[Cymbeline]

In purely practical terms, I would suggest you do a lot of reading about he nature of love and marriage and your intentions about the way you want to live the second half of your life and the legacy you leave. I have done, and am doing. I have learned a lot, particularly about how I could have been a better husband. But I have learned little about how to decide where to go from here. I want a marriage that I, my wife and kids can be proud of (like I was with my own parents') or nothing.

You don't sound as though you are finished with your marriage and for me, the huge elephant that is storming around is that your OW is 25 to your 46. Yes. The OW repeatedly protested that our age difference wasn't a factor, but for me, it sometimes was. Occasioanlly I felt like her Grandad.

 

 

 

Well the Ow is only 25. She can protest whatever she likes but she is not yet a fully formed adult character. My point was not how her age compared to yours feels now but how it will pan out in the next ten years. Do youbwantbto be the father of more young children in your 50 s for example? How will she feel when your libido slips and she is in her sexual prime? Her behaviour suggests she isn't the greatest respecter of the boundaries of marriage ....

[truncated]

So far, your responses have all centered around you and what you feel. You say your wife still loves you and would take you back in a second?

 

Have you ever made it clear to her that you were not coming back, or did you kind of leave her hanging on, hoping that you would? It sounds like you may have done so, so that you could have something to go back to if your A didn't work out the way you wnated it to.

 

 

If you do go back, I predict it will fail and you will cheat again should an opportunity arise. I say this because for you to ever really be fully engaged in your marriage, you will need to do a lot of work on yourself, and not hold out the standard of anyone else's marriage to determine if yours is working or not.

 

Your wife also needs an opportunity to explore single life without you dangling the " maybe he'll come back someday" carrot in front of her. Does she really love you enough, and can she ever heal enough, to fully forgive you? Maybe she can, maybe not, but to go back to a relationship where neither one of you is really happy won't work out so well.