Why does the guy pay (or not)?

[mrldii]

Not too good at picking up on sarcasm, eh?

 

 

Not to mention not too good at cut-and-pasting other's words as they were written, since I specifically used the plural male "princes" and NOT the plural female "princesses".

 

 

Apparently, as a male, he knows better what I meant to say than I did, so he simply took literary license over my words to better make his point.

 

 

 

It's actually quite flattering when men have to bastardize my words to *best* make their point.

 

[SawtoothMars]

This (below)

...........................

 

That is just a general thought. Don't you ever wonder about things like that?

[katiegrl]

That is just a general thought. Don't you ever wonder about things like that?

 

You mean wonder how attracted to other men I am? And lament about only being attracted to men in a certain age range? lol

 

No darlin I don't.... I only have eyes for my boyfriend and am always thinking about how attracted I am to HIM.

 

I don't give a rat's rear end about how attracted I am to other men. It's the last thing I would ever wonder about. :)

Edited August 4, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
OP request. ~T

[SawtoothMars]

Not too good at picking up on sarcasm, eh?

 

Huh? You must have not read the entire thing.

 

Not to mention not too good at cut-and-pasting other's words as they were written, since I specifically used the plural male "princes" and NOT the plural female "princesses".

Apparently, as a male, he knows better what I meant to say than I did, so he simply took literary license over my words to better make his point.

It's actually quite flattering when men have to bastardize my words to *best* make their point.

 

Since you both misunderstood me... I'm thinking that perhaps I just wasn't clear.

 

When I was 29, I caught my then 30 yo GF cheating on me with a 48 year old man. He was some kind of failed musician and she was giving him money to live. I think they dated for two years after we broke up... until she got tired of the bum. Our group of friends used to call him "The Sponge".

 

So... yeah I changed "princes" to "princess", because I feel that fits the guy better.... also why I changed it from plural to singular.

[joseb]

I'll admit I'm a little confused about what you mean. I sometimes offer (although not sure if I can remember doing that on a first date) but the guy will say "oh you can get me next time" (whether they let me or not the next time). Any guy who thinks I'm there for a free meal, I'm not interested in. I don't need the money and wouldn't waste my time like that as I'm guessing is the case with most girls. Not interested in people who think negatively like that. LOL, it's hilarious that guys would even be paranoid about a girl wanting a free meal

 

If you read through the threads here (I think it's even on this one) a lot of guys take a dim view of the girl not even making a token gesture to pay.

You can call it paranoia, or you can call it years of experience that tells them something. I personally know girls who admit to being happy to go on dates with guys they are not interested in on the assumption that he will pay everything

Not saying that's you, or most girls, but there's a fair few.

[mrldii]

...Since you both misunderstood me...

 

So... yeah I changed "princes" to "princess", because I feel that fits the guy better.... also why I changed it from plural to singular.

 

Obviously, I didn't misunderstand you, as I'd indicated that you'd probably changed what I'd written because you - as a man - knew better what I meant to say than I - as a woman - did. You've indicated that this was, indeed, the case.

 

I wasn't talking about "the guy"; I was talking about some "men", so the plural tense was grammatically and linguistically correct.

 

 

In the future, please refrain from attempting to edit what I write for me for 'better clarification/edification'; unless, of course, you are my publisher and you are sending me either an advance check or one for royalties.

 

Much obliged...

[Versacehottie]

It's good that you primarily attract "generous" men. I don't personally value generosity in a woman. I don't recommend anyone try to pick a future mate based on this particular trait. Empathy is much more important. People can be generous but completely lack empathy or have a low emotional IQ.

 

First off, sorry I don't know how to do quote the nice pretty way you did it

I think generosity is a corollary trait of other things I attracted to as well. More traditional I guess and alpha (hate the word but it applies). I think it's not what I seek primarily just because I decided to contribute to this thread. But actually I can't imagine being married to someone who was stingy. I have seen this a few times and it isn't a pretty sight. Nor is a golddigger type wife, so....I agree empathy is important. Overly sensitive guy, is not my taste but I don't fault those for who it is. Perhaps the scope is getting too wide. I don't think one thing is exclusive of the other.

 

I am primarily wondering how many potential suitors you go through on average before finding one you would like to date.

 

I personally keep track of my success ratios. Maybe it is a coping mechanism for dealing with rejection, which is one of the most painful of human emotions. When I was young, I really struggled with dating. Now that I'm older and professionally successful it's much easier.

 

You probably wont understand that much because dating is more of a selection process to you than an in your face parade of rejections.

 

Yes, I definitely wouldn't understand the way a guy would. Women get rejected all the time though as well. I have been very good with the way I've picked the people I dated. I think a lot of the resentment guys feel about this is because they are doing big internet dating sprees--where maybe I would have kept track of those too because in those cases it can very well be a numbers game. My guys have mostly come from real life. But for women it is select, accept and wait for a lot of the time. If it was normal for for me to pay my way through the beginning uncertain stages, I probably would have done it. So I could have the control as you put it below (which is very accurate!). I don't think the type of guys I like would have liked that. And in some ways I think that's really what we are discussing here that guys who don't like to pay want the best of both worlds. Still own the control but have the cost split. I mean you said it yourself when you had the means to, you paid and you enjoy it because it allows you the control. I agree. I think this natural order of things alleviates one of the uncertainties about dating. Most guys feel good about being in a leader role this way. I like to see the guy I'm interested in take this role.

 

I think you probably represent the thought process of most women in this scenario. This is a very traditional view of dating.

 

I believe it's important to look at the world from other people's perspective from time to time. There are plenty of guys... many on loveshack... who have very low success ratios when it comes to dating. This means that time and time again... they are the guys you essentially "dine and dash" on. Imagine that was you. I would bet that over time you would become very resentful and guarded.

 

Absolutely. I have a traditional view on this as do most girls I know. I can see it from other guys point of view, not with all the arguments that are presented though (the free meal one, the general negativity, keeping score). I can see that it gets expensive! Maybe they need to pick better! I just will not agree that the dine and dash is a normal thought process of most girls. We want to be hopeful and have it turn into something great. We can become resentful and guarded just from continually having thing not work out too and for sitting by the phone because the guy owns the control.

 

Thank you for providing these answers! It's very good to know your perspective and see where you are coming from.

 

I like paying for dates today. I used to pick expensive places, because I wanted to go and didn't want to go alone. The money doesn't bother me because I make plenty.

 

When I was in my mid 20's and poor, I felt differently about this. I would guess that most guys also view this topic in terms of available resources.

 

Yes I agree thank you for providing your answers. Thanks for having a mature discussion

 

Everyone has a different dating style. Men are supposed to be leaders and take charge to a degree. I think most women value those traits.

 

Here is the deal though. Guys who have had a reasonable amount of success are not going to struggle with this... while guys who have less positive experiences are going to struggle. That doesn't mean they are any less quality, it just means they maybe lack confidence or some other trait required of men for dating.

 

That is why I enjoy having control, while many others will see it as a burden.

 

This is basically my point. We are in full agreement.

 

The vast majority of westernized men have bought into this "yes dear" culture of hen-pecking and passivity. I can understand you thinking that all of the cake eater type guys who sit around whining about things are aggressive, but I assure you that it is the opposite. Those guys are being vocal as a sign of passivity.

 

Having set in stone dating rules and norms is good in a way, however I actually like the freedom to make my own rules. I suppose it's a trade off.

 

I still don't agree. Maybe once they are in the relationship western men are more passive because western women are more forward. But in beginning stages I still think guys are in power position and traditionally there is a cost for that priveledge.

 

My goal is to get you to look at the topic from another perspective. Whether you pay your own way or not makes little difference to me. I'm set in my ways and am type A enough to enjoy the control aspect of paying.

 

Yes, we are on the same page with that. I wonder why you would enjoy paying? hmmmmm.

[Versacehottie]

Isn't it also possible that they just hide it? Isn't it possible that every single guy you have ever dated felt this way but just did what you expected of them in order to have a chance with you?

 

This is a pay to play world.

 

Of course it is possible but I really don't think in my particular experiences it has been the case. Subsequent dating with the guys told me that it really was in the nature of the guys I dated. A few girls on here mentioned it as well. They are actually girls who don't mind splitting or paying for dates yet when now that they have a bf, their boyfriends insist on paying most of the time. I think people usually use their money willingly in areas where they are committed and interested. Thus it is perhaps part of the reasons these relationships worked out. Not a cause of why they did but a symptom that shows that the guy was committed and interested in it working out. Just saying. And yes it is a pay to play world. I didn't make the rules but I understand them and it makes sense to me why they have evolved as such. Anyway, good discussion

[OldRover]

Of course it is possible but I really don't think in my particular experiences it has been the case. Subsequent dating with the guys told me that it really was in the nature of the guys I dated. A few girls on here mentioned it as well. They are actually girls who don't mind splitting or paying for dates yet when now that they have a bf, their boyfriends insist on paying most of the time. I think people usually use their money willingly in areas where they are committed and interested. Thus it is perhaps part of the reasons these relationships worked out. Not a cause of why they did but a symptom that shows that the guy was committed and interested in it working out. Just saying. And yes it is a pay to play world. I didn't make the rules but I understand them and it makes sense to me why they have evolved as such. Anyway, good discussion

 

Not sure the paying protocol changes much when the dating becomes BF/GF.... even seems like at that point, the girl tends to pay more... turns into more of a sharing thing, but still leaning on the guy paying most.

 

Had a good dinner w my lady tonight, expected to pick up the tab for the whole table, but ended up not paying a dime. My GF picked up mine, and my buddy (who provided the transportation) did his and his GF. I do like the gesture when the lady offers, and I will often let her, but never have a problem paying the whole bill. That's the way it is.

[Versacehottie]

Not sure the paying protocol changes much when the dating becomes BF/GF.... even seems like at that point, the girl tends to pay more... turns into more of a sharing thing, but still leaning on the guy paying most.

 

Had a good dinner w my lady tonight, expected to pick up the tab for the whole table, but ended up not paying a dime. My GF picked up mine, and my buddy (who provided the transportation) did his and his GF. I do like the gesture when the lady offers, and I will often let her, but never have a problem paying the whole bill. That's the way it is.

 

Yes, I agree. That is the way it has been for me too. You sound like the type of guys I have dated with your thought process toward this issue and this is typical to how it's gone down in my experience.

[SawtoothMars]

Obviously, I didn't misunderstand you, as I'd indicated that you'd probably changed what I'd written because you - as a man - knew better what I meant to say than I - as a woman - did. You've indicated that this was, indeed, the case.

I wasn't talking about "the guy"; I was talking about some "men", so the plural tense was grammatically and linguistically correct.

In the future, please refrain from attempting to edit what I write for me for 'better clarification/edification'; unless, of course, you are my publisher and you are sending me either an advance check or one for royalties.

Much obliged...

 

I'm so confused.

 

I fully understand that you were not talking about a guy that you can't possibly know. I took your general statement and applied it to a personal story of mine. That was based on my interpretation of what you said.

 

It's just one of those situations where I didn't put down a fully formed thought and it didn't make sense to anyone. My apologies!

[SawtoothMars]

Of course it is possible but I really don't think in my particular experiences it has been the case. Subsequent dating with the guys told me that it really was in the nature of the guys I dated. A few girls on here mentioned it as well. They are actually girls who don't mind splitting or paying for dates yet when now that they have a bf, their boyfriends insist on paying most of the time. I think people usually use their money willingly in areas where they are committed and interested. Thus it is perhaps part of the reasons these relationships worked out. Not a cause of why they did but a symptom that shows that the guy was committed and interested in it working out. Just saying. And yes it is a pay to play world. I didn't make the rules but I understand them and it makes sense to me why they have evolved as such. Anyway, good discussion

 

Paying for loved ones is natural, while paying for strangers you will never see again really isn't. I don't think you can make a determination of a guys initial feelings based on your later connection.

 

In the end it doesn't matter, but it definitely has been an interesting discussion.

[HereNorThere]

I pay for going out because I want to get better at dating. After a bad breakup about 10 years ago (damn, time flies) I went on my first internet date. Oh man, I was shaking like a crackhead. Luckily the girl was sooo awesome and put me at ease and we're still actually really good friends to this day. Oddly enough, I'm friends with her fiance' now as well.

 

Anyway, after 10 years of going on many, many dates and maybe being sat on by a few fat girls, I'm really super good at it. If I get the date, I'm good. I no longer have to do any kind of Internet dating site or anything like that. For the most part, I don't even really have to ask people out. When your female friends know you're a decent guy, they usually just bring girls to you.

 

When you pay for these types of things, you're making an investment in yourself. When I had a bad date, I analyzed what I did or didn't do right and wrong and tried to make the next one better. No one owed me anything and I was having fun. It was what I wanted to do.

 

When I'm in a relationship, women always start to offer to pay half or they start paying every other. Not because I ask them to, but because I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who didn't reciprocate my generosity. (unless for some reason they financially couldn't, but that's actually never been the case)

 

Stop being bitter and spend your money on what you to spend it on. I don't just pay for dates, I pay the bar tab when I'm with my bro's as well. I sometimes buy my coworker's lunch or tip the parking lot guy. I bought my mom a new iPad last week and my dad an Amazon Fire Stick. I work hard as hell for my money and I like spread the wealth around. I'm not going to live forever, so I'm going to pop some bottles and some tags while I'm still here.

[DJOkawari]

Well, it was a nice discussion. Some bitter people from both genders, some open people from both. Oddly only CIS people represented (I think).

 

It seems we can all agree that once a relationship begins people just begin to act out of love and though that largely means the guy is paying, there are exceptions. I think this lines up with how I like to live as well, so I can agree with that.

 

No one who asked received any sort of decent answer for why they would pay for dates prior to an emotional connection being made, but personally I'll accept these two:

 

1. That's life.

2. Ladies will think you are less of a man and not want to date you again. (and both genders will insult you online apparently ).

 

I guess they're both tied together with the idea that this is how people were trained to think by western society. In my mind, it still lives in sharp contrast with the equality movement that is so prevalent at the moment. In other countries they say, "men and women are equals in America" and that's an easy enough concept to understand if you view it as a cut and dry truth, but I guess it isn't that simple here either.

 

I concluded that I'll abide by this rule, because it is a game and games have arbitrary rules all the time - we rarely question them in other settings.

[Versacehottie]

Paying for loved ones is natural, while paying for strangers you will never see again really isn't. I don't think you can make a determination of a guys initial feelings based on your later connection.

 

In the end it doesn't matter, but it definitely has been an interesting discussion.

 

But you can surely make a determination about what type of person they are. Not willing to give unless they are getting. (no I don't mean sex). What's it's it for me. And if this girl proves to me she is dateable. I just think "people" like other people who put their best foot forward. I see exactly why you are saying what you say but we won't see eye to eye, I afraid.

[Her Bridges]

Well, it was a nice discussion. Some bitter people from both genders, some open people from both. Oddly only CIS people represented (I think).

 

It seems we can all agree that once a relationship begins people just begin to act out of love and though that largely means the guy is paying, there are exceptions. I think this lines up with how I like to live as well, so I can agree with that.

 

No one who asked received any sort of decent answer for why they would pay for dates prior to an emotional connection being made, but personally I'll accept these two:

 

1. That's life.

2. Ladies will think you are less of a man and not want to date you again. (and both genders will insult you online apparently ).

 

I guess they're both tied together with the idea that this is how people were trained to think by western society. In my mind, it still lives in sharp contrast with the equality movement that is so prevalent at the moment. In other countries they say, "men and women are equals in America" and that's an easy enough concept to understand if you view it as a cut and dry truth, but I guess it isn't that simple here either.

 

I concluded that I'll abide by this rule, because it is a game and games have arbitrary rules all the time - we rarely question them in other settings.

 

There may also have been some bias in that the question was geared towards men, not men and women, and the assumption that he DOES pay. Perhaps we should open a new thread with the new question (why would you invest in a date before any emotional connection) at the forefront to redirect everyone's focus?

[HereNorThere]

Well, it was a nice discussion. Some bitter people from both genders, some open people from both. Oddly only CIS people represented (I think).

 

It seems we can all agree that once a relationship begins people just begin to act out of love and though that largely means the guy is paying, there are exceptions. I think this lines up with how I like to live as well, so I can agree with that.

 

No one who asked received any sort of decent answer for why they would pay for dates prior to an emotional connection being made, but personally I'll accept these two:

 

1. That's life.

2. Ladies will think you are less of a man and not want to date you again. (and both genders will insult you online apparently ).

 

I guess they're both tied together with the idea that this is how people were trained to think by western society. In my mind, it still lives in sharp contrast with the equality movement that is so prevalent at the moment. In other countries they say, "men and women are equals in America" and that's an easy enough concept to understand if you view it as a cut and dry truth, but I guess it isn't that simple here either.

 

I concluded that I'll abide by this rule, because it is a game and games have arbitrary rules all the time - we rarely question them in other settings.

 

 

Congratulations, you're figuring out that our actions don't align with what we say. Sure, most women will talk a big game about paying, but the second you don't, you'll go into the "cheap" category. It's honestly not even worth risking in western culture.

 

And sure, men and women deserve to be treated equally, but they will never be equals. By very definition alone, it's impossible for any two people to be equals. We do strive to give people equal rights and the U.S. is closer to that concept than some other places, but there are still lots of areas where one gender has an advantage over the other. Sometimes we try too hard and sometimes we don't try hard enough, but I'm proud that we at least try.

[OldRover]

I pay for going out because I want to get better at dating. After a bad breakup about 10 years ago (damn, time flies) I went on my first internet date. Oh man, I was shaking like a crackhead. Luckily the girl was sooo awesome and put me at ease and we're still actually really good friends to this day. Oddly enough, I'm friends with her fiance' now as well.

 

Anyway, after 10 years of going on many, many dates and maybe being sat on by a few fat girls, I'm really super good at it. If I get the date, I'm good. I no longer have to do any kind of Internet dating site or anything like that. For the most part, I don't even really have to ask people out. When your female friends know you're a decent guy, they usually just bring girls to you.

 

When you pay for these types of things, you're making an investment in yourself. When I had a bad date, I analyzed what I did or didn't do right and wrong and tried to make the next one better. No one owed me anything and I was having fun. It was what I wanted to do.

 

When I'm in a relationship, women always start to offer to pay half or they start paying every other. Not because I ask them to, but because I wouldn't be in a relationship with someone who didn't reciprocate my generosity. (unless for some reason they financially couldn't, but that's actually never been the case)

 

Stop being bitter and spend your money on what you to spend it on. I don't just pay for dates, I pay the bar tab when I'm with my bro's as well. I sometimes buy my coworker's lunch or tip the parking lot guy. I bought my mom a new iPad last week and my dad an Amazon Fire Stick. I work hard as hell for my money and I like spread the wealth around. I'm not going to live forever, so I'm going to pop some bottles and some tags while I'm still here.

 

Good post, and good attitude on spending. I have no problems with what you say. So what if you spend a bit too much on a lady that doesn't work out, or you spend on someone that doesn't appreciate it or takes advantage of it. That's how you get to know people and develop relationships, and you learn a lot about people.

[SawtoothMars]

But you can surely make a determination about what type of person they are. Not willing to give unless they are getting. (no I don't mean sex). What's it's it for me. And if this girl proves to me she is dateable. I just think "people" like other people who put their best foot forward. I see exactly why you are saying what you say but we won't see eye to eye, I afraid.

 

I think that I just have a much more cynical view of human nature.

[Versacehottie]

I think that I just have a much more cynical view of human nature.

 

Yep, I hadn't noticed it particularly with you (seem lovely enough and very smart). BUT this is a cluster of traits that seems to be around guys who begrudge (is that even the right word?) paying. Maybe it's one of the reasons the an older tradition still applies in dating in 2015? Like I said, it's a way to see what the person is about. Not the only way but it does give some insight. And a girl is paying attention.