mrldii Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 ...If society in general expects men to pay for dates, and it's impossible to argue that it does not, what is expected of women in return? ... But, that's just it: society doesn't expect men to pay for dates; certain men and women who make up a segment of society expect it. Date a different segment of society (i.e., risk dating a "feminazi" who believes in equal access to rights...AND equal shares of responsibility) OR make peace with the segment of the population you're choosing to go out with and suck it up and pay. Quietly. And, without b*tching about it. That same "society" says only women can b*tch. Simple, really. Link to post Share on other sites
Her Bridges Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Are you referencing sexual acts? LOL not at all. Simply that you can "do nice things for the sake of doing nice things" that don't involve buying someone dinner. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 But, that's just it: society doesn't expect men to pay for dates; certain men and women who make up a segment of society expect it. Date a different segment of society (i.e., risk dating a "feminazi" who believes in equal access to rights...AND equal shares of responsibility) OR make peace with the segment of the population you're choosing to go out with and suck it up and pay. Quietly. And, without b*tching about it. That same "society" says only women can b*tch. Simple, really. There is more to women then feminazis and traditional who believe in strict gender roles. If those were the only two choices I would gladly stay single. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mrldii Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 If he was helping her cook, clean, and take care of the kids the scenario would be perfect, and she wouldn't want a divorce right? Sign me up for that. Funny how you [deliberately] glossed over the "you check out" part. But, yeah...if a man was doing all those things and not checking out, why would I - or any "feminazi" - want a divorce? Link to post Share on other sites
mrldii Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 There is more to women then feminazis and traditional who believe in strict gender roles. If those were the only two choices I would gladly stay single. You'll have to talk to the men about that; they're the ones who've (apparently) determined that there are only two types of women: "traditionalists" who believe in strict gender roles and all other women, who are "feminazis". Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 There's no "double standard"; there are women who believe the man should be the provider, from the first date all the way through the 'x' # of kids, and until the day they both die. They're called "traditionalists". There are women who are willing to - and perfectly capable of - paying their own way and will do so on the first, fifth, and 125th dates. They're the ones who go back to work after they give birth to children. They're the ones who say, "I'm not happy in this relationship, because even though we both go to work for the same 10 hours a day, when you come home, you check out...leaving me to cook for, clean after, and care for the kids. I want a divorce."Surely there is an equal balance between the extremes. What some of you men appear to be most interested in is finding a woman who will pay her half on the dates, give you 100% of her income, raise your children and tend to your home/food/laundry for you, and be damned grateful for the opportunity. In other words, you are looking for a "traditional doormat".I can't speak for all men, but I would be happy with her paying half of the dates, giving me 0% of her income, not having children, and cooking half the time (with me cooking the other half). We can each do our own cleaning and laundry. Am I asking for too much? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I notice that a lot of feminazi type down lose respect for a man who does that stuff. I have heard a few alpha women call their husbands kitchen bitches. They say they want an equal marriage but deep down are attracted to men who can out alpha them. Link to post Share on other sites
mike_89 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 But, that's just it: society doesn't expect men to pay for dates; certain men and women who make up a segment of society expect it. Date a different segment of society (i.e., risk dating a "feminazi" who believes in equal access to rights...AND equal shares of responsibility) OR make peace with the segment of the population you're choosing to go out with and suck it up and pay. Quietly. And, without b*tching about it. That same "society" says only women can b*tch. Simple, really. There may be segments of our society for which this holds true, but the majority of women in our society (at least here in Europe, no idea about the US) really do expect men to pay the first date, even to the extent where girls do not want to go on a second date because he is "cheap" if he doesn't. No, this is not rare or some small segment, this is by and far the standard. What is there to be done when almost all women you meet have this mindset? Not date at all? Link to post Share on other sites
DJOkawari Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Funny how you [deliberately] glossed over the "you check out" part. But, yeah...if a man was doing all those things and not checking out, why would I - or any "feminazi" - want a divorce? Well, yeah he wouldn't be "checking out" in that case right...? Do you presume, guys just check out after work? In the end, what I've learned from this thread is that I'm looking for a girl to share my responsibilities with. Fortunately, I live in an area teeming with those sort of ladies. I'm with this guy: I can't speak for all men, but I would be happy with her paying half of the dates, giving me 0% of her income, not having children, and cooking half the time (with me cooking the other half). We can each do our own cleaning and laundry. Am I asking for too much? Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 1. Men, why do you choose to pay or nor pay for a date?I generally pay because I never know if a woman is testing me. If I don't have any interest in seeing her again, I'll let her pay her half because I don't care if I fail. This is for the first date. 2. What would you consider a polite and appropriate response from her in either situation?The best response is to thank me and to say she'll get the next date. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 But, that's just it: society doesn't expect men to pay for dates; certain men and women who make up a segment of society expect it. Date a different segment of society (i.e., risk dating a "feminazi" who believes in equal access to rights...AND equal shares of responsibility) OR make peace with the segment of the population you're choosing to go out with and suck it up and pay. Quietly. And, without b*tching about it. That same "society" says only women can b*tch. Simple, really. Just because there are not written laws on dating doesn't mean that it isn't socially expected. I would say that women who think like you are a very small minority compared to women who expect a man to pay. Allow me to cite an article for evidence: It's 2014: Why Are Men Still Paying for First Dates? - The Atlantic Women don't often advertise their beliefs on gender norms in advance of a date. Asking is likely to create problems and lead to unnecessary rejection. So... it is VERY difficult to select for women in advance of dates for these particular traits. The best you can do is split the bill and hope she calls you back... unfortunately at that point you probably have put yourself out there and often times have even started to like her. You are not going to have them call you and say "I believe in traditional gender roles so I'm not going to date you anymore". Instead your going to be left ???, not knowing what happened. Rejection always sucks... and when you don't know why it becomes personal. I should also note that of the 30 or so feminsts I've dated... only 1 stands out as actually believing in equal responsibility. Since you are not like this, it may be hard to believe, but most feminists believe in taking zero responsibility... for anything... ever! Link to post Share on other sites
mrldii Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Surely there is an equal balance between the extremes. I can't speak for all men, but I would be happy with her paying half of the dates, giving me 0% of her income, not having children, and cooking half the time (with me cooking the other half). We can each do our own cleaning and laundry. Am I asking for too much? I dunno...are you? When something comes up that causes a disagreement (where to go on vacation, to sell/buy a home, where to go to dinner) does she have equal input or is it 100% your way, because you're the man? To bring this full circle, MY dating site will ask those two, simple questions; the answer to "Why?" does determine compatibility in soooooo many areas... ...as many of you are proving, while *convincing* me how wrong I really am, when stating my opinion on just this one, little, itty, bitty subject matter...and none of us are even going to dinner with one another. Link to post Share on other sites
mrldii Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 ...Since you are not like this, it may be hard to believe, but most feminists believe in taking zero responsibility... for anything... ever! Then, they are misusing the term, since a "feminist" is "a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of men and women". A "feminist" can not not believe in equal responsibility...it says so, right there in the definition. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 LOL not at all. Simply that you can "do nice things for the sake of doing nice things" that don't involve buying someone dinner. That typically entails some kind of sex, so please pardon my confusion. What exactly do you do? Bake a cake? Link to post Share on other sites
Shining One Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 When something comes up that causes a disagreement (where to go on vacation, to sell/buy a home, where to go to dinner)Simple things like dinner, we can alternate. We can alternate vacations as well. As for larger items, we would have to work as a team to decide.does she have equal input or is it 100% your way, because you're the man?Of course. I don't believe input should be determined based on gender. If we're buying a house and we're each putting in half, we get equal say. If she's putting in 100%, she gets full say.To bring this full circle, MY dating site will ask those two, simple questions; the answer to "Why?" does determine compatibility in soooooo many areas...I look forward to your site. Design it for easy filtering and you'll bring something to the table that none of the other sites have. Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Then, they are misusing the term, since a "feminist" is "a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of men and women". A "feminist" can not not believe in equal responsibility...it says so, right there in the definition. I like you! Is Lena Dunham a feminist? Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I notice that a lot of feminazi type down lose respect for a man who does that stuff. I have heard a few alpha women call their husbands kitchen bitches. They say they want an equal marriage but deep down are attracted to men who can out alpha them. Where the fu*k do you meet these people? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Where the fu*k do you meet these people? Many places. I have had the misfortune of coming across a lot of unlikable characters. Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Where the fu*k do you meet these people? I've personally experienced what Woggle is talking about. The girlfriend was from Boston. Worked in marketing and was very successful, and originally from a wealthy family. So... maybe that's where you find them! Link to post Share on other sites
Her Bridges Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 That typically entails some kind of sex, so please pardon my confusion. What exactly do you do? Bake a cake? I actually tried expanding on my answer earlier but the forum wouldn't let me edit. Personally I enjoy the outdoors, perhaps I would invite him on a kayak trip, or a horseback trail ride. A ball game could be fun, or a movie. Not all involve food, or even money, as the horses are mine (well, my family's), kayaks are easy to borrow, and public parks are free. If he's into that sort of thing, we could even go target shooting and I supply the ammo. If i think he would like a cake I certainly have several recipes up my sleeve That and I make some killer stir fry. If I want to do something nice I would try for it to be something that special/unique from me, that both of us would enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I've never meet a feminist in my life. Link to post Share on other sites
jay1983 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I've personally experienced what Woggle is talking about. The girlfriend was from Boston. Worked in marketing and was very successful, and originally from a wealthy family. So... maybe that's where you find them! And let me guess. She was white and attractive? Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 I actually tried expanding on my answer earlier but the forum wouldn't let me edit. Personally I enjoy the outdoors, perhaps I would invite him on a kayak trip, or a horseback trail ride. A ball game could be fun, or a movie. Not all involve food, or even money, as the horses are mine (well, my family's), kayaks are easy to borrow, and public parks are free. If he's into that sort of thing, we could even go target shooting and I supply the ammo. If i think he would like a cake I certainly have several recipes up my sleeve That and I make some killer stir fry. If I want to do something nice I would try for it to be something that special/unique from me, that both of us would enjoy. I love all those ideas. Especially target shooting. I bought an AR15 last year and have not had the opportunity to try it out. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
mike_89 Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 Then, they are misusing the term, since a "feminist" is "a person who believes in the social, political, and economic equality of men and women". Equality is impossible. Men and women are not equal, and will never be. Social, political and economic equivalence is something to strive for if you ask me, but equality? Not a chance. Too many differences in the genders themselves. If you'd want social equality for men and women you'd have women engage in as many bar fights as men and you'd have men opt to become nurses as often as women. Not a chance. Link to post Share on other sites
SawtoothMars Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 And let me guess. She was white and attractive? How did you know? Tall, blonde, green eyes, huge fake boobs. Link to post Share on other sites
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