I am so lost and alone

[BetheButterfly]

Star, would you be okay if he had a revenge affair? If he decides to stay it's very likely to happen. Good luck.

 

Sad but true, which would not be a truly loving thing to do.

[mightycpa]

I think you have an issue with me thinking it mean and wrong that he called her a tramp.

 

I do have an issue with what he said, because it is a mean and unloving thing to do, even though he's understandably angry at what she did.

 

Cheating is not loving, and calling a person names for cheating is not loving either. Both people in the relationship don't truly love each other.

 

That's why they need to learn what true love is before even thinking of getting back together, in my opinion.

Bea, I don't have an issue with you, per se, but your take on calling a spade a spade is ridiculous.

 

Horton tried to get you to see:

 

Tell him you've cheated on him with three other men and get back to us.

but you avoided the point

I can't. I love my husband. Thus, I can't cheat on him.

Luckily, we don't need you to answer that to make the point. You've already spoken

I know for my husband, if I ever cheated on him, he would not want to be with me anymore, even though he would still love me. The reason is because he would lose all faith/trust in me.

What you'd have us believe is that by walking out on you, or throwing you out of the house forthwith, whichever way it would occur, that you could say in good conscience that he still loves you. But if he also called you a hurtful name that reflects at least somewhat accurately your misdeed, he doesn't love you?

 

C'mon. That's just too out there to believe. It seems to me you'd rather be called the name and keep him as your penance than to lose him but not be shamed.

 

I don't believe it, and I think that if you'll think about it, that you don't believe it either. But whether you do or not, most of us don't think the name calling, under the circumstances, is an over-the-top response.

[Horton]

I can't. I love my husband. Thus, I can't cheat on him.

 

Calling the woman one claims to love a tramp doesn't sound very loving, now does it, same as cheating on the one one claims to love isn't very loving either. 2 wrongs don't make a right relationship.

 

I'm glad to hear you would never cheat, truly. But my point was those who do cheat really ought to count their blessings if the only repercussion for their behavior is having to listen to some harsh language from their betrayed partner. BTW Turning the other cheek is something you do yourself out of principal, it's not a 2x4 you beat over another persons head when you don't like their reaction to being stabbed in the back.

[Mr. Lucky]

I really cant see how people are judging her bf ,he has just been betrayed in the worst way by the person who is supposed to love him , i think calling her tramp is understandable.I cant see how he is a player either , could have been just a couple of ons in college .

 

Were my partner to do this to me and, in the heat of discussion I limited my comments to no worse than "tramp", I'd be pretty impressed with me self-restraint.

 

From the dictionary:

 

tramp - /tramp/ - a promiscuous woman.

 

Mr. Lucky

[BetheButterfly]

Bea, I don't have an issue with you, per se, but your take on calling a spade a spade is ridiculous.

 

That is an issue.

 

Star is not a spade, and Star is not a tramp. She's a human being who has made mistakes. That doesn't mean people have to be mean to her.

Horton tried to get you to see:

 

 

but you avoided the point

I addressed his point.

 

What you'd have us believe is that by walking out on you, or throwing you out of the house forthwith, whichever way it would occur, that you could say in good conscience that he still loves you. But if he also called you a hurtful name that reflects at least somewhat accurately your misdeed, he doesn't love you?

Because one can be nice about keeping their word. Before my husband and I got married, we talked about if one of us committed adultery. We agreed that if one of us did that, that would destroy our relationship. A marriage is a covenant (promise/agreement) with conditions. Adultery breaks the covenant. It's as simple as that.

 

C'mon. That's just too out there to believe. It seems to me you'd rather be called the name and keep him as your penance than to lose him but not be shamed.

Nope. I am a firm believer in respect. If my husband ever cheats on me, I'd say goodbye, but I would still love him and have self control and self respect enough not to call him names.

 

 

I don't believe it,

Well, you're not married to me, are you? My husband is, and we've talked about what would happen if one of us breaks our vows to each other.

 

and I think that if you'll think about it, that you don't believe it either.

I think you don't know me, which is fine. I personally would not marry a man who thinks it's ok to call a woman names just because she made mistakes.

 

But whether you do or not, most of us don't think the name calling, under the circumstances, is an over-the-top response.

So you think she should beg him to forgive her and wait for him to decide whether he can trust her again?

[BetheButterfly]

I'm glad to hear you would never cheat, truly.

 

Thanks, but the reason for not cheating is because I love my husband, not because of what others think.

 

But my point was those who do cheat really ought to count their blessings if the only repercussion for their behavior is having to listen to some harsh language from their betrayed partner.

 

That's not the only repercussion here. It's possible she has lost him, which is why she wants to "fight" to "win" him back, which I don't think is a good idea.

 

 

BTW Turning the other cheek is something you do yourself out of principal, it's not a 2x4 you beat over another persons head when you don't like their reaction to being stabbed in the back.

 

I'm not talking to her partner. I'm talking to her and I think she does need to take time to heal and work on growing instead of trying to make a man her source of happiness. And another poster made a great point... it's possible he would have a "revenge" affair if he does get back with her. Would that be good, in your opinion, for them to get back together and then for him to cheat on her? Does this sound like a loving relationship to you? It doesn't to me. I think she needs someone who respects her and that she needs to heal first, before being involved again with anyone. She also needs to learn what true love is. If she truly loved him, she wouldn't have cheated on him anyways.

[BetheButterfly]

Were my partner to do this to me and, in the heat of discussion I limited my comments to no worse than "tramp", I'd be pretty impressed with me self-restraint.

 

From the dictionary:

 

tramp - /tramp/ - a promiscuous woman.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

If your Mom cheated on your Dad, would you, if you loved your Mom, call her a tramp? I wouldn't (and no my Mom has never cheated on my Dad).

 

I think it's really important to be respectful of people. She told him the truth. She is repentant; she doesn't want to cheat again. She deserves respect in my opinion, even though she made mistakes. As Jesus said, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” - John 8:7b (NIV)

 

 

[autumnnight]

Be, I don't know you, but I already like you.

 

The thing is, you believe people should maintain their OWN character even if the people they love do not. And that doesn't jive with the "once a person cheats all bets are off and the BS can do/say whatever they want" philosophy.

 

What you are really saying is that your character is not dependent on someone else's.

[oldshirt]

People are saying that when someone is really upset and angry and hurt etc they say things in the heat of the moment that they may not really mean or that it is just the anger talking.

 

 

Then often times when the anger dies down and the dust settles they come back down to baseline and are able to sift through the layers and work through things more rationally and compassionately.

 

 

I get that and I understand that.

 

 

My concern in this particular instance though is based on the BF's past experience and practices with women isn't that he was reacting out of hurt and anger and just cocking off like a lot of people do. But rather that HE ACTUALLY MEANS IT.

My concern is that given his history with women, he actually does have disdain for her and actually does think of her as slutty and no longer has a shred of respect for her.

 

 

I'm not saying that his feelings are wrong or unjustified. I am just saying that she needs to seriously, seriously reconsider whether it is in her better interests for her to attempt to resume a relationship with him or not.

 

 

My concern is not that he said those things out of anger and does not mean them.

 

 

My concern is that he said them in truth and really does mean them.

[BetheButterfly]

People are saying that when someone is really upset and angry and hurt etc they say things in the heat of the moment that they may not really mean or that it is just the anger talking.

 

 

Ok, understandable but still not a loving thing to do...

 

Then often times when the anger dies down and the dust settles they come back down to baseline and are able to sift through the layers and work through things more rationally and compassionately.

Ok, thanks for explaining why he called her that. Hopefully he will ask her for forgiveness for calling her a mean name and will try to understand her.

 

 

I get that and I understand that.

 

 

My concern in this particular instance though is based on the BF's past experience and practices with women isn't that he was reacting out of hurt and anger and just cocking off like a lot of people do. But rather that HE ACTUALLY MEANS IT.

Yeah, that's my concern too, that he means what he said and that he doesn't respect her anymore.

 

My concern is that given his history with women, he actually does have disdain for her and actually does think of her as slutty and no longer has a shred of respect for her.

Agreed.

 

I'm not saying that his feelings are wrong or unjustified.

I'm saying his calling her a mean name is not loving, which if he wants a loving relationship, is wrong. Maybe he doesn't want a loving relationship with her though... maybe he feels he can't have a loving relationship anymore with her, I don't know.

 

I am just saying that she needs to seriously, seriously reconsider whether it is in her better interests for her to attempt to resume a relationship with him or not.

Amen

 

My concern is not that he said those things out of anger and does not mean them. My concern is that he said them in truth and really does mean them.

Excellent point. When a person no longer respects the other person in a relationship, that relationship really suffers. Edited July 21, 2015 by BetheButterfly

[BetheButterfly]

Be, I don't know you, but I already like you.

 

Thanks Autumnight, likewise

 

The thing is, you believe people should maintain their OWN character even if the people they love do not.

Amen, you understand!!! Thanks!!!

 

And that doesn't jive with the "once a person cheats all bets are off and the BS can do/say whatever they want" philosophy.

Yep. Eloquently put

 

What you are really saying is that your character is not dependent on someone else's.

Exactly, thanks for clarifying it so much better than I can.

 

I like Star a lot and hope that she finds happiness, not dependent on some guy who doesn't respect her and doesn't seem to truly love her (in my opinion), but rather finds happiness as she heals and grows... then finds a happy man who truly loves her and respects her, and who she truly loves and respects.

Edited July 21, 2015 by BetheButterfly

[oldshirt]

response in bold below.

 

 

 

 

Ok, understandable but still not a loving thing to do...

 

 

 

maybe not, but people don't always act lovingly when you screw them over.

 

 

Ok, thanks for explaining why he called her that.

 

 

I didn't explain why he did it. I assume he did it because he was disgusted, hurt and angered.

 

 

 

 

Hopefully he will ask her for forgiveness for calling her a mean name and will try to understand her.

 

 

 

That's really pushing it. He has no right to mistreat her or abuse her or kick her dog, but she assured him she would be faithful to him on her trip and has ended up screwing a few different dudes and then trying to pass it off as drunk and couldn't remember what was happening to her vagina.

I'm sorry but that is trampy. If people are going to act like a tramp, they can expect to get called out as one.

Let's make some distinctions here. I think her behavior was abhorrent. I think he has every right to be repulsed by her and to terminate his association with her permanently.

I don't think that he is obligated to hear her explanations or to hear out her apologies and I do not think that he is obligated to forgive her and give her any second chances or even to remain friends with her.

I think he is perfectly in his right to move out, block and delete her number and never and never engage in any type of interaction with her again.

Period.

But what I am saying to her is that it is probably not in her own self interests to try to pursue any kind of further relationship with him and to just let him go.

I also believe it is in her best to do some serious reflection on her own maturity and responsibility and to engage in some serious self-improvement before pursuing any other relationships.

He may not have any right to mistreat or malign her, but he also has no obligation to accept her behavior or to ask for foregiveness for his expression of disgust towards her behavior.

In other words, he has no right to call her up in the middle of the night to call her a tramp and malign her preemptively.

But if she initiates contact with him and asks why he won't try to reconcile with her and he says it's because he thinks she's a tramp and that what she did is slutty, that's just calling it the way he sees it.

 

[BetheButterfly]

Star, you are not a tramp. You are a human being who made mistakes. You told him the truth. You are repentant. You don't want to cheat ever again. Please don't let the past define who you are. Have respect for yourself. Be the wonderful lady you are born to be, and forgive yourself for your past mistakes. Again, don't let the past define you. Heal and grow, and wait for a man who respects you and who truly loves you, and who you truly love and respect.

[BetheButterfly]

Star Light,

 

First, you can read my past post on what happened. What allowed me to trust her again, is that she never made excuses, she took full responsibility for her actions. She did not assume I would forgive her, and thought I would leave her. She was very open about her life and worked to not give me pain or have me wonder what she was doing going forward. It was all about me.

 

This took time, but I regained trust in degrees, and by the time we married, I trusted her, and she has been faithful to me ever sense.

 

I wish you luck.

 

Can I ask you something? Did you call her a tramp and did you mean it? Or did you call her a mean name out of anger (like tramp) but didn't really mean it and accepted her repentant heart in time, seeing that she truly repented? Could you please elaborate on your conversations with her? Thanks. I'm so glad you and your wife are doing well!!!

[oldshirt]

 

The thing is, you believe people should maintain their OWN character even if the people they love do not. And that doesn't jive with the "once a person cheats all bets are off and the BS can do/say whatever they want" philosophy.

.

 

I agree that one is obligated to do the right thing even if others are not.

 

 

And I agree in principle that even though someone cheats, that does not grant license for the betrayed party or anyone to mistreat, harm, abuse or malign them.

 

 

However, people are allowed to express themselves and are not obligated to suppress their feelings of hurt, anger, disgust and disdain towards those who have mistreated them.

 

 

As I said in my post above, he does not have the right to mistreat, abuse, malign or treat her badly because she cheated on him.

 

 

But he is also not obligated to withhold his feelings about what she did, simply because it may hurt her feelings or make her feel bad.

 

 

If she stated or implied that her objective was to maintain a monogamous faithful relationship with him while she was gone and then she went out partying and banged a series of dudes (which all sounded pretty intentional BTW) and then she initially tried to snow him by saying she was drunk and couldn't remember what she did.

 

 

He may not have license to intentionally abuse or mistreat her, but he is not obligated to hide his disgust and his hurt from her.

 

 

Her actions are what caused his hurt and disgust. She does not have immunity from hearing the depths of his hurt and disgust.

 

 

He doesn't have the right to write the word "slut!" on her car. But he has the right to terminate their relationship and say that the reason for the termination is because he thinks her actions were slutty.

 

 

There is a difference.

[understand50]

Star,

 

Hope things are going better. Things will settle when you get home, and talk to him. You have some idea, one way or the other.

 

In the mean time,

 

Take care of yourself, and know that there will be another day, time will help with your pain and hurt. Thing will get better.

 

I wish you hope, or that you see it that it is there.

[understand50]

Can I ask you something? Did you call her a tramp and did you mean it? Or did you call her a mean name out of anger (like tramp) but didn't really mean it and accepted her repentant heart in time, seeing that she truly repented? Could you please elaborate on your conversations with her? Thanks. I'm so glad you and your wife are doing well!!!

 

We were both so young. I was 17 she 19. After her ONS, she called me and and told me she had to see me. We lived 130 miles apart at the time, she was living with roommates from high school, in a rented room.

 

So she met me as I got off the bus, we sat down and she told me she had really done a bad thing to me and she had slept with a guy in the apartment complex, one time only after she was drunk. There were tears in her eyes, and she said she knew I would hate her and we were over, but she wanted to tell me face to face and let me get back, on the buss and go back home. Told me she loved me, and always would. I asked why, she had no answer, we sat, and I finally said let's go home. To her room.

 

We went and talked some more, who, why, what happened. We made love, talked some more. The whole time she did not blame me, asked if I wanted to stay, did not know if she could ever make it up to me. Well, after two days of talking, love making, we agreed to keep together, but there were ground rules. She moved out to a new room, dropped her friends/roommates, and and called me every night. I promised, not to use her cheating in future fights, about non-related things. I would drop it, unless she cheated again. I have kept this.

 

This was in the early 70's. I went home, I was still in High school, and in a lot of pain, and heartache, but what really made me think she would be true to me going forward, was a letter she wrote right after I left her. I still have it. In it she tells me she loves me, but if I must break up with she would understand, but if I would give her the gift of a second chance she would never let me down. I did, and she never has.

 

I got my GED, left High school early and moved in with her, and we have been together from that time. We have had challenges, but never cheating on each other. Or as I have posted in another thread, I am reasonably sure, or as sure as any husband can be, she has been faithful to me. No, I never called my wife a whore, tramp, C**T, or any other derogatory word at any time. Not that we do not argue and know what buttons to push, but we have never gotten mean with each other. We fight fair with each other for the most part.

[autumnnight]

I agree that one is obligated to do the right thing even if others are not.

 

 

And I agree in principle that even though someone cheats, that does not grant license for the betrayed party or anyone to mistreat, harm, abuse or malign them.

 

 

However, people are allowed to express themselves and are not obligated to suppress their feelings of hurt, anger, disgust and disdain towards those who have mistreated them.

 

 

As I said in my post above, he does not have the right to mistreat, abuse, malign or treat her badly because she cheated on him.

 

 

But he is also not obligated to withhold his feelings about what she did, simply because it may hurt her feelings or make her feel bad.

 

 

If she stated or implied that her objective was to maintain a monogamous faithful relationship with him while she was gone and then she went out partying and banged a series of dudes (which all sounded pretty intentional BTW) and then she initially tried to snow him by saying she was drunk and couldn't remember what she did.

 

 

He may not have license to intentionally abuse or mistreat her, but he is not obligated to hide his disgust and his hurt from her.

 

 

Her actions are what caused his hurt and disgust. She does not have immunity from hearing the depths of his hurt and disgust.

 

 

He doesn't have the right to write the word "slut!" on her car. But he has the right to terminate their relationship and say that the reason for the termination is because he thinks her actions were slutty.

 

 

There is a difference.

 

I agree with this, and I am fairly certain nothing I wrote disagrees with that.

[BetheButterfly]

We were both so young. I was 17 she 19. After her ONS, she called me and and told me she had to see me. We lived 130 miles apart at the time, she was living with roommates from high school, in a rented room.

 

So she met me as I got off the bus, we sat down and she told me she had really done a bad thing to me and she had slept with a guy in the apartment complex, one time only after she was drunk. There were tears in her eyes, and she said she knew I would hate her and we were over, but she wanted to tell me face to face and let me get back, on the buss and go back home. Told me she loved me, and always would. I asked why, she had no answer, we sat, and I finally said let's go home. To her room.

 

We went and talked some more, who, why, what happened. We made love, talked some more. The whole time she did not blame me, asked if I wanted to stay, did not know if she could ever make it up to me. Well, after two days of talking, love making, we agreed to keep together, but there were ground rules. She moved out to a new room, dropped her friends/roommates, and and called me every night. I promised, not to use her cheating in future fights, about non-related things. I would drop it, unless she cheated again. I have kept this.

 

This was in the early 70's. I went home, I was still in High school, and in a lot of pain, and heartache, but what really made me think she would be true to me going forward, was a letter she wrote right after I left her. I still have it. In it she tells me she loves me, but if I must break up with she would understand, but if I would give her the gift of a second chance she would never let me down. I did, and she never has.

I got my GED, left High school early and moved in with her, and we have been together from that time. We have had challenges, but never cheating on each other. Or as I have posted in another thread, I am reasonably sure, or as sure as any husband can be, she has been faithful to me.

 

Thank you for sharing your and your wife's story. I am crying right now... for the pain y'all experienced, and the love you showed her when you forgave her. I'm so glad that she confessed to you, repented, and that you forgave her. You are an awesome man!!!

 

 

No, I never called my wife a whore, tramp, C**T, or any other derogatory word at any time. Not that we do not argue and know what buttons to push, but we have never gotten mean with each other. We fight fair with each other for the most part.

I think that's so important. Thanks for being an awesome role model for men. Blessings to you and your wife, and thanks again for forgiving her and truly loving her, and I am so glad she confessed and truly repented, out of love for you. She knows what a treasure she has in you - what a wonderful man you are!!!

[Horton]

I think I must have expressed my initial point poorly. Let me attempt an analogy instead.

 

Imagine you're walking your dog across the street and somebody driving their car sees you and instead of slowing down they speed up and hit your pet. Naturally you get upset and have some choice words for the driver as anybody in your shoes would. Now imagine that I (an observer) witness all of this and my first instinct is to point my finger in your face and chastise you for your disrespectful tone towards the driver of the vehicle. What would that say about me and my values that rebuking you for your words spoken in anger is my highest priority.

 

All of this talk about what people who've just had a nuke dropped on their world ought to have said and done differently is bizarre to me. The notion that somebody who has just suffered a terrible injustice at the hands of another ought to have their behavior put under our critical microscopes while the person who committed the wrong against them should be cut a nigh infinite amount of slack because they're remorseful or they're imagined to be in some kind of "fog" from the endorphin rush of their illicit behavior is downright alien to my sense of right and wrong. For lack of a less childlike term it strikes me as unfair.

 

I think the OP and others like her having a sense of the seriousness of how unacceptable their behavior was is actually a good thing not just for their significant other but for themselves as well. When somebody feels guilty it's generally cause they've acted in a way that contradicts their own moral code. People whose natural instinct it is to downplay the wrongness of the OP's actions or who attempt to blame shift her behavior in order to alleviate her of the guilt she feels while perhaps sincere in their desire to ease her pain are not really helping her in the long run. A person can only flee from their conscience for so long before it eventually catches up with them. It would be better for her if she faces the fallout from this head on with her integrity intact. It's not about self flagellation but owning our sins and facing those we've wronged with a contrite heart. This is what repentance is.

[Star lights]

I'm so sorry that I've caused such a heated discussion between everyone. I guess were all so different in our opinions. I understand I need to work on me but I can't let this go, I need to try.

 

I just need to get home and move my things out and then take each day as it comes.

[understand50]

I'm so sorry that I've caused such a heated discussion between everyone. I guess were all so different in our opinions. I understand I need to work on me but I can't let this go, I need to try.

 

I just need to get home and move my things out and then take each day as it comes.

 

Star,

 

That is a good plan, and do not apologize for the discussion you started. You came here for help. We would amiss if we did not offer our best and candid advise and experiences to help you sort out your fears and pain. I hope that what have been posted, has helped you, given you some hope, relieved some of your pain, got you thinking, and advised you on how to proceed. In the end it is up to you to take what was posted here and apply it as you see fit to your situation.

 

You are not a bad person, you just did a bad thing, and hurt yourself and your loved one. What all comes from this is, partly in your hands. Keep us updated, I am pulling for you.

 

As always, I wish you luck and peace of mind.

[Star lights]

Ah guys, I've really messed up haven't i. He won't even talk to me!

 

I hate myself, I really need forgiveness. I hate myself so so much for what I have done to him, how could I do this?! Why would I do this?! I'm so self sabotaging. I feel like I'll never recover from this. I'm so alone I just want to go home and I just want it to all be okay again but it won't and I can only blame myself

[Mr. Lucky]

Regardless of differing opinions, I think every poster here would agree that you don't have to let the past define you. Some of the best people I know today weren't that way a year, five years, ten years ago. What happens from today forward is up to you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[TaraMaiden2]

Ah guys, I've really messed up haven't i. He won't even talk to me!

 

I hate myself, I really need forgiveness. I hate myself so so much for what I have done to him, how could I do this?! Why would I do this?! I'm so self sabotaging. I feel like I'll never recover from this. I'm so alone I just want to go home and I just want it to all be okay again but it won't and I can only blame myself

 

While you continue to think like this, and hold this opinion, you will never move on.

 

Sorry to be harsh, but get a grip, put your 'Big Girl' panties on and start moving forward.

Get over yourself.

We all f**k up sometimes.

I have, you have, darn it, look at how full this forum is of people constantly f**king up.

 

You're not alone, you won't be the first and you absolutely certainly won't be the last.

 

There are no babies involved, no STDs, no inappropriate sex partner knocking at your door.

 

Quit feeling sorry for yourself.

That's just another form of ego-trip.

So he won't talk to you.

So what?

 

I mean, really? Honestly? SO WHAT?

 

He will talk to you at some point. He has to, you share an abode.

 

If he is so self-righteous and judgemental that he feels entitled to absolutely trash you and call you names, then consider the fact that someone who does that, is not as perfect and wonderful as you make him out to be.

 

Finish what you are doing. FOCUS.

Live in the moment, because it's the only one you have.

 

Then come back and deal with it.

But stop beating yourself up.

It's an extremely unattractive trait, and while I get you fee awful, in a year's time, this will be relative trivia.