Throwing in the Towel

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

That goes both ways cause we can't see who's posting. I agree with you a lot most advice on here is crap.

 

A lot of these dudes have, no life, no style, don't know what clothes or haircut suits them and are paranoid to even talk to women It's easier to give advice when you can see, hear and slap somebody.

 

 

...and slap somebody? Bahahaaa! Thanks for the chuckle before I hit the sack, I needed it lol.

 

To the OP and to any other guy on this thread who feels as hopeless as the OP does:

 

If you're only in your mid 20s, then you have plenty of time to date and enter into a relationship with a woman who will eventually be attracted to your face and body and who will appreciate you for the particular character (and personality) traits that YOU alone possess. For some people, it takes more time to find a special someone than it does for others.

 

You said that in 'your generation', dating women your age involves their interest in dating (and screwing) a guy ONLY if his physical appearance is something that THEY desire and are sexually attracted to. If you look like The Elephant Man http://thehumanmarvels.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/joseph-merrick-797867-319x500.jpg, then you can throw in the towel and jump off the tallest building in your city. However, if you DON'T resemble The Elephant Man in any way - then eventually - you WILL end up dating women you're attracted to who are attracted to you and you WILL eventually end up in a relationship (or in several relationships). I can see if you were like in your 50s+ and posted this, then I'd probably agree with you that there's little hope for ya.

 

Don't lose hope. Just, don't. Keep on keepin' on with the other things you've got going on in your life. Strive to be the best person you can be regarding your personality, your physicality and your ATTITUDE towards people - especially women. Saying that you 'despise humanity' doesn't really bode well for your future regarding dating or even making any worthwhile friends.

 

Look...if you don't change your attitude (no matter how many times you get rejected), you'll NEVER succeed at attaining that which you seek - and that applies to ANYTHING that you desire to have in your life.

 

 

 

.

Edited June 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[johndoe2]

Actually, dating advice from women would actually be a disadvantage as a lot aren't even good at taking their own advice.

 

More broadly speaking, I'm beginning to think taking advice for people on internet forums isn't a smart thing to do. Because if they knew what they were talking about, they wouldn't be on an internet forum looking for answers too.

 

The blind leading the blind, in other words.

[johndoe2]

To the OP and to any other guy on this thread who feels as hopeless as the OP does:

 

If you're only in your mid 20s, then you have plenty of time to date and enter into a relationship with a woman who will eventually be attracted to your face and body and who will appreciate you for the particular character (and personality) traits that YOU alone possess. For some people, it takes more time to find a special someone than it does for others.

 

Don't lose hope.

 

Keep pushing that rock up that hill, Sisyphus! Don't be so pessimistic! Sure, you've pushed the rock up the hill a hundred times and every facking time it rolls back down. But, ya know, I hear, it takes 4 or 5 hundred times before it finally stays up there. So keep the faith, keep pushing that boulder up that hill till kingdom come. I'm sure one of these days it won't roll back down. /sarc

 

Don't purport to lecture people. You can try and try, get your hopes up, over and over and over again, time and time again, then they get dashed, then you bide your time before you meet someone else, try and court them again, undergo the same process. Can put on the cheeriest attitude you want, doesn't change whatever innate thing about you makes you ugly in the eyes of others.

 

Hope just leads to more disappointment. Maybe hopeless tranquility will be more bearable. Whenever you feel lonely, just have a few more drinks. If you're lucky the ethanol will eventual kill off most of the neurons in the part of the brain that makes you yearn for companionship. So, a salud! (you can't see obviously, but I'm holding a bottle of cheap scotch right now)

Edited June 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[I_Squared_R]

BlackOpsZombieGirl.. You know what doesn't bode well? When I look in the mirror and I see a very attractive person, who is physically fit, intelligent, smart, and outgoing. I lead a very active and interesting lifestyle. My attitude is very good, but sometimes people are very intimidated by me. Not by my looks, but I am a bit loud when I talk. I have been told that I am "fearless" or I speak with power like a politician or a wealthy man. When women begin to know me they begin to like that part of me. It's just the way I am and will continue to be. Believe it or not - I took a columbian woman out for coffee and some crazy guy wanted to talk to me about how my motorcycle were illegally parked. He was showing us a 6" long knife that he was carrying and she couldn't get over how well I handled a situation like that.

 

It doesn't bode well because none of these things have made me any success in dating. Perhaps I am the most unluckiest person there is or there is some divine being that wants to keep me from being distracted with dating - so I can serve a much larger purpose.

 

It's not as bleak as I make things seem. Some women i've taken on dates or slept with had my friends extremely jealous. I can never NEVER seal the deal though. Sometimes I wonder if the women i've taken on dates were even attracted to me at all - or they just wanted a free meal or had difficulty saying no to me.

 

Another issue I have are my friends. I firmly believe that people are a product of their environment. If you are situated around people all day that are pessimistic or don't serve your purpose - then they will only hold you back.

Edited June 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[BlackOpsZombieGirl]

 

BlackOpsZombieGirl.. You know what doesn't bode well? When I look in the mirror and I see a very attractive person, who is physically fit, intelligent, smart, and outgoing. I lead a very active and interesting lifestyle. My attitude is very good, but sometimes people are very intimidated by me. Not by my looks, but I am a bit loud when I talk. I have been told that I am "fearless" or I speak with power like a politician or a wealthy man. When women begin to know me they begin to like that part of me. It's just the way I am and will continue to be. Believe it or not - I took a columbian woman out for coffee and some crazy guy wanted to talk to me about how my motorcycle were illegally parked. He was showing us a 6" long knife that he was carrying and she couldn't get over how well I handled a situation like that.

 

It doesn't bode well because none of these things have made me any success in dating. Perhaps I am the most unluckiest person there is or there is some divine being that wants to keep me from being distracted with dating - so I can serve a much larger purpose.

 

It's not as bleak as I make things seem. Some women i've taken on dates or slept with had my friends extremely jealous. I can never NEVER seal the deal though. Sometimes I wonder if the women i've taken on dates were even attracted to me at all - or they just wanted a free meal or had difficulty saying no to me.

 

Another issue I have are my friends. I firmly believe that people are a product of their environment. If you are situated around people all day that are pessimistic or don't serve your purpose - then they will only hold you back.

 

 

Well, I was just trying to inject some positiveness and hope into your way of thinking regarding dating. In one of your recent posts, you said that because you've quit dating and are now focusing on other things, you are now happy. But, from all of your posts that I've read on your thread - you don't seem happy. I could be wrong though; I can't see the expression(s) on your face and I can't hear the tonal inflections of your voice as you say these things. So, I guess if you're truly happy - then you ARE truly happy.

 

 

I'm done here. I wish you and ZA Dater every good thing that can manifest into your lives to make you both happy spiritually and emotionally. I'm sorry that I've invoked such venom and hatred from a post that I had hoped would lift you up in some way.

 

Good bye and Good Luck, OP.

 

 

 

.

Edited June 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jay1983]

What's the saying? Sh-t in one hand, hope in the other: see which fills up faster.

 

 

Offering the same trite old overused "advice" with the insinuation that any time you've tried to follow it "you just weren't doing it right," or whatever, seems more designed to make yourself feel good than anyone else. "It's you're attitude, change your attitude, etc." Useless advice only wastes space.

 

There no hiding this type of attitude offline. You need to see a professional, the type that give medication and I don't mean that as an insult I mean that a real thing you need to do.

Edited June 18, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[johndoe2]

No dude you are far beyond fu*ked up. There no hiding this type of attitude offline. You need to see a professional, the type that give medication and I don't mean that as an insult I mean that a real thing you need to do.

Thanks for the recommendation I'll take that into consideration upon reflection of your qualifications.

[ZA Dater]

This is where I despair on these type of threads, this was not "some crappy .02 cent bitch" that sought to take him down.

This was a girl he took out for one date and she decided she didn't want to go on another, which she is perfectly entitled to do. Happens every day.

Derogatory comments re women I guess is part of the problem.

If someone basically does not like women, how are they going to attract them?

 

(I am not directing this at you ZA Dater, as I have not felt the same vibe from you, re women.)

 

I think ultimately my respect for women doesn't lead me down the path of blaming them for not finding me attractive, perhaps a fairly big thing to say but I think the world would function a lot better if there was some more respect in it. Am I disappointed I wasn't given a fair chance, yip, am I hurt I wasn't good enough to be put into the friend zone, absolutely but none of that to me is a reflection on her.

 

As for reminiscing, that to me is taking the positive out of a situation rather than lingering on the ultimately negative conclusion.

 

As for me if there is door to be opened, a chair to be pulled out I am that guy, manners I value quite highly but again what I value highly doesn't appear to be what society values highly.

 

Ultimately it goes back to do you be yourself or change yourself into what you think people will like. In a way I tried to side step this problem last time by finding someone attractive who I thought to be somewhat different to the usual mid 20's female in her outlook on life and I maintain she is, however for whatever reason I was deemed to be less than desirable.

 

When it comes to me the fundamentals are all wrong, 31yo, no female friends, never had a girlfriend and unfortunately those things all count heavily against me.

 

In light of that its easier to simply walk away than to subject myself to more rejection due to the fundamentals.

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

Ugly people in relationships? I haven't seen it???

 

Try the DMV.

[MGX]

I think everyone gets how the OP feels - because nearly everyone has had that view at some point in their life. The thing is I feel zero sympathy for anyone who does actually just throw in the towel.

 

I feel admiration for those who fail repeatedly - but continue to try and look within and keep working on themselves, bettering themselves and expanding their comfort zone to become better people to get what they want. I think everyone understands why the OP wants to give up. We all know that the dating game can be a mine field. But if you quit you lose. You never get what you want or desire. So whats the point in that ?

 

He WAS losing. If you want to stop losing, stop playing that particular game and play something else that you CAN actually win at.

 

Does one NEED relationships? Or is it simply a WANT, like an itch to be scratched? You won't fall over dead if you don't have companionship.

[MGX]

I assure you that web will dissolve and that desire will pop its little head out again the next time a pretty single girl joins your group. If not it will gradually build up over time until it breaks out of the web on its own. The heart wants what the heart wants.

 

So the choice is pretend that the desire doesn't exist and deal with the endless torment. Or acknowledge it does and accept that it always will. Then go from there.

 

Aaaaand he gets reminded of why he should have stuck to his guns and ignored that pretty single girl.

 

Desires CAN be fought and dealt with. You might like a girl who already has a significant other. In that case, desire MUST be conquered and dismissed.

[MGX]

So Elaine suggested people talking about women as bitches may be misogynistic and contribute to their lack of success with women (while specifically pointing out she didn't think ZA Dater had that problem), and the response was...she can't contribute? Oh, those crazy women, thinking they can talk with the men! Am I right, guys?

 

Guys can be pretty bitter. That bitterness and anger toward women who rejected them turns into misogyny. That seems to be a regular pattern here.

 

This thread interests me because I know a guy who seems to be following this path. He hasn't gotten past the third date or been laid in nearly a year. I don't blame him for being a little bitter, but I don't think he realizes how his bitterness and loneliness is just making things worse. He resists all suggestions of therapy. He won't get a dating coach or talk to other female friends for advice. He talks about being a foreveralone, dying alone, and how all he needs is a relationship to be happy. He refuses to acknowledge the possibility that the women he dates can sense this desperation and his increasing depression. If I even mention my boyfriend in a sentence he yells at me about being insensitive to his feelings. I don't know what to do anymore.

How does he deal with the loneliness? If he can't get a date, what does he do for fun?

[Justanaverageguy]

Aaaaand he gets reminded of why he should have stuck to his guns and ignored that pretty single girl.

 

Desires CAN be fought and dealt with. You might like a girl who already has a significant other. In that case, desire MUST be conquered and dismissed.

 

Haha exactly! But now you see it creates a loop doesn't it. A loop of suffering and unhappiness.

 

In thinking you can dismiss or remove a key human desire like love and companionship you lock yourself into this loop.

- Firstly you pretend your desire does not exist or that you have beaten them.

- Next you meet a girl or have some other experience that shows that desire is still there stronger then ever.

- Finally you go back to trying to hide them again and posting on this website about how life is unfair, how girls should like nice guys, that you shouldn't have to change to get what you want and finally that you don't even want a girlfriend anyway

- You state you have given up the desire to meet anyone and the loop starts all over again from the beginning.

 

Its a repetitive game of hide and seek you will never win. Because desire can't be fought and certainly cannot be dismissed or conquered. Its like trying to catch water with a net. It just slips straight through. I don't claim to be a Buddist but I do have an affinity for its way of thinking. The 1st rule of the Buddha is the most misunderstood. All suffering is caused by desire. So if you can stop desiring things - you can cure all suffering. ZA_Dater thinks he can be happy by simply stopping the desiring to be with someone else. But Buddahs statement is not a law. It is what is known as a Koan. It is a statement intended to teach the student a lesson. The Koans taught in Zen create a paradox. They are unsolvable riddles. In this case the student says - I will simply conquer desire. I will fight and destroy it until it is gone or pretend that it does not exist. But now you are desiring to destroy desire. So you have simply created another desire.

 

In a loop chasing your tail like our poster is ZA_Dater is.

[Justanaverageguy]

Guys can be pretty bitter. That bitterness and anger toward women who rejected them turns into misogyny. That seems to be a regular pattern here. How does he deal with the loneliness? If he can't get a date, what does he do for fun?

 

Yes they can and a large part of this bitterness is the result of trying to fight the unfulfilled desire or deny it exists. In attempting to pretend that he does not have the desire and push it down inside him he manifests negative energy and thoughts. The act of denying it exists actually causes him to focus on the desire even more.

 

Why ? Because the logical mind has to justify "why" he doesn't desire this anymore. Why he isn't going after what deep down he does actually still wants. His brain comes up with many different logical thoughts to justify it. All women are evil. I shouldn't have to change myself. I get no return on investment. He makes the fact he can't have it other peoples fault. He becomes misogynistic, angry, vindictive to women and those around him. Even those trying to help him. But think about it why would he be on here posting about it if he didn't want it.

 

So whats the answer. The starting point of what to do is acceptance.

- Accept that he feels loneliness. Don't pretend this emotion does not exist. Don't fight it. Don't try to conquer it.

- Next accept that he desires to be with a woman he cares about. Again don't fight it. Don't pretend you don't have it. Just acknowledge and accept that he has this desire. Understand that he doesn't have this now and its difficult to obtain ... but know that in the future its possible and that he will work towards getting it.

 

By accepting a key and deeply human desire like love and companionship it actually reduces the focus on not having it. Because now our mind doesn't have to come up with crazy reasons why we aren't pursuing what we actually want. The rational thoughts to justify "why" he doesn't go after what he desires don't need to be made anymore. They are excuses for inaction. He is now acting and accepting so they are reduced immeasurably. It has a magical effect of moving the minds focus to what we already have and the actions we are taking towards getting what we want. Something much more positive.

 

Next he should accept everything he has in his life. The good and the bad. As ZA_Dater said he actually has lots and lots of other positive things happening in his life. Not having a girlfriend is just one small negative. So accept that he can actually be very happy with what he has. A girlfriend would just be an improvement on something that is already very good. If you stick to this thought pattern it begins to manifest itself as more positive thoughts about everything. This will continually turn into more positivity for the future like a snow ball. The positivity will improve his interactions with others which creates more positivity. This improves his confidence which makes him more comfortable in social situations which again adds to the positivity. Every time the desire he has for a girlfriend comes up he acknowledges and accepts it as something that he wants. He doesn't make excuses for why he isn't going after it because he is. Eventually he meets a girl that he likes. Something magical has happened - he is no longer a ball of negative energy and he connects with her on a level he has not with any girl previously. She likes him. They become boyfriend and girlfriend. Life is good. Trumpets sound. Doves fly into the sky and people travel far and wide professing the great happiness he has found.

 

Then he starts desiring to marry this girl so the loop begins again.

[misspond]

I like your advice Justanaverageguy. It's takes the perceived negatives and turns them into positives in a very clever way.

[Justanaverageguy]

I like your advice Justanaverageguy. It's takes the perceived negatives and turns them into positives in a very clever way.

 

Thanks - I wish I could claim credit for it but the truth is the philosophy behind it has been around for 1000's of years. Having an attitude of gratitude is something I strive for every day - not always successful but no one is perfect.

 

My main hope is that some of the guys on this thread think the same as you and like the concept. Then hopefully try to incorporate it into their lives. The mind and positive thinking has more power then people realize. Its not about what you have or what happens - it is all about how you view it.

[MGX]

Yes they can and a large part of this bitterness is the result of trying to fight the unfulfilled desire or deny it exists. In attempting to pretend that he does not have the desire and push it down inside him he manifests negative energy and thoughts. The act of denying it exists actually causes him to focus on the desire even more.

 

Why ? Because the logical mind has to justify "why" he doesn't desire this anymore. Why he isn't going after what deep down he does actually still wants. His brain comes up with many different logical thoughts to justify it. All women are evil. I shouldn't have to change myself. I get no return on investment. He makes the fact he can't have it other peoples fault. He becomes misogynistic, angry, vindictive to women and those around him. Even those trying to help him. But think about it why would he be on here posting about it if he didn't want it.

 

So whats the answer. The starting point of what to do is acceptance.

- Accept that he feels loneliness. Don't pretend this emotion does not exist. Don't fight it. Don't try to conquer it.

- Next accept that he desires to be with a woman he cares about. Again don't fight it. Don't pretend you don't have it. Just acknowledge and accept that he has this desire. Understand that he doesn't have this now and its difficult to obtain ... but know that in the future its possible and that he will work towards getting it.

 

By accepting a key and deeply human desire like love and companionship it actually reduces the focus on not having it. Because now our mind doesn't have to come up with crazy reasons why we aren't pursuing what we actually want. The rational thoughts to justify "why" he doesn't go after what he desires don't need to be made anymore. They are excuses for inaction. He is now acting and accepting so they are reduced immeasurably. It has a magical effect of moving the minds focus to what we already have and the actions we are taking towards getting what we want. Something much more positive.

 

Next he should accept everything he has in his life. The good and the bad. As ZA_Dater said he actually has lots and lots of other positive things happening in his life. Not having a girlfriend is just one small negative. So accept that he can actually be very happy with what he has. A girlfriend would just be an improvement on something that is already very good. If you stick to this thought pattern it begins to manifest itself as more positive thoughts about everything. This will continually turn into more positivity for the future like a snow ball. The positivity will improve his interactions with others which creates more positivity. This improves his confidence which makes him more comfortable in social situations which again adds to the positivity. Every time the desire he has for a girlfriend comes up he acknowledges and accepts it as something that he wants. He doesn't make excuses for why he isn't going after it because he is. Eventually he meets a girl that he likes. Something magical has happened - he is no longer a ball of negative energy and he connects with her on a level he has not with any girl previously. She likes him. They become boyfriend and girlfriend. Life is good. Trumpets sound. Doves fly into the sky and people travel far and wide professing the great happiness he has found.

 

Then he starts desiring to marry this girl so the loop begins again.

 

Nice thoughts. I agree with where some of them lead.

 

You think accepting desire eventually makes you happy, whereas I think eradicating desire makes you happy.

 

Where I disagree, is that desire can't be extinguished. What if what your desire is unhealthy and ultimately leads to your self-destruction? Like smoking or drugs? Or lusting after unobtainable women? Wouldn't it be better to fight those desires and end them altogether?

 

I think you can battle addicti--er, desire and win. Priests and monks do this. Hell, fat people battle desire to lose weight. You can increase positivity by focusing on the more positive aspects of your life and exorcising those negative aspects. Through conditioning and willpower, you'd ultimately lose interest in what you THOUGHT you desired.

 

THEN you can be happy.

[Justanaverageguy]

Nice thoughts. I agree with where some of them lead.

 

You think accepting desire eventually makes you happy, whereas I think eradicating desire makes you happy.

 

 

What you don't understand is that we are talking about the same thing Keep reading the Koan from Buddah.

 

Where I disagree, is that desire can't be extinguished. What if what your desire is unhealthy and ultimately leads to your self-destruction? Like smoking or drugs? Or lusting after unobtainable women? Wouldn't it be better to fight those desires and end them altogether?

 

We don't disagree. You still don't understand the lesson. Also I won't go into the idea of morality because it is taught in this lesson from Buddah. The Koan That all suffering is caused by desire answers this question you just don't realize it yet.

 

You can increase positivity by focusing on the more positive aspects of your life and exorcising those negative aspects.

THIS!!!!!! THIS RIGHT HERE!!!! ^^^^^ This is the answer. Read it and read it again until you understand. What is the process that exorcises the negative aspects ? Focusing on what ..... ? I'll give you a hint ..... you said it above.

 

Just to make it extra clear in case you missed it. Try not to focus on a pink elephant ? What did you just think of. A pink elephant.

 

Do you see the trick here yet ? What does "trying" to not focus on something actually do. The exact same thing as focusing on it.

 

Ok now try not to focus on negative. What did you just think of. Negative.

Ok now try not to focus on positive. What did you just think of. Positive.

 

So how did we just exorcise "negative" from our mind ? By focusing on the ...... ?

 

Anything ? Did the light bulb go off yet ?

 

You'd ultimately lose interest in what you THOUGHT you desired.

THEN you can be happy.

This is the opposite of what you wrote above and where we completely disagree. What I tried to explain in in the previous post was. There is no "THEN you can be happy." You can be happy right now Just focus on what you have and be happy and grateful you have it. An attitude of gratitude. If a person is not happy with what they are blessed with today it is not likely they will be happy with anything they receive tomorrow regardless of whether it is good or bad.

Edited June 18, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[ZA Dater]

 

 

Next he should accept everything he has in his life. The good and the bad. As ZA_Dater said he actually has lots and lots of other positive things happening in his life. Not having a girlfriend is just one small negative. So accept that he can actually be very happy with what he has. A girlfriend would just be an improvement on something that is already very good. If you stick to this thought pattern it begins to manifest itself as more positive thoughts about everything. This will continually turn into more positivity for the future like a snow ball. The positivity will improve his interactions with others which creates more positivity. This improves his confidence which makes him more comfortable in social situations which again adds to the positivity. Every time the desire he has for a girlfriend comes up he acknowledges and accepts it as something that he wants. He doesn't make excuses for why he isn't going after it because he is. Eventually he meets a girl that he likes. Something magical has happened - he is no longer a ball of negative energy and he connects with her on a level he has not with any girl previously. She likes him. They become boyfriend and girlfriend. Life is good. Trumpets sound. Doves fly into the sky and people travel far and wide professing the great happiness he has found.

 

Then he starts desiring to marry this girl so the loop begins again.

 

There are words that describe people like you: eternal optimist are the ones that spring to mind.

 

You missed the part where I am simply not interested anymore, the cons outweigh the pro's and I am just not interested in having the same result nor am I interested in someone with the IQ of a 5 years, low class, poor vocab and obese physical appearance, those are the attributes I attract.

 

At this point I am sure you will go on about positive this and positive that but when you had a run of zero positive you cannot tell me to be positive about something that has given me nothing positive at all. In fact I am more positive now that I have made peace with never having any of this companionship you speak of. Made peace with not bothering with either dating sites or looking for people, yes I will have a gander at the pretty brunette running but my mind will simply says "not attainable" and I can simply carry on with whatever I was doing. This is called being rational as opposed to being romantically hopeful.

 

I hope however your philosophy brings you considerable success, the small one positive experience I did have suggests when this is good its very good but for me its just been overwhelmingly bad.

 

FYI, I don't struggle in social situation, I struggle with meaningless irrelevant chatter about who slept with who, who drank too much at yesterdays party, who is seeing who, who broke up with who, for me none of that is particularly interesting or worth talking about, again society disagrees with me.

 

Having said all of that a friend of mine concurs with mostly everything you typed above.

[ZA Dater]

You can increase positivity by focusing on the more positive aspects of your life and exorcising those negative aspects. Through conditioning and willpower, you'd ultimately lose interest in what you THOUGHT you desired.

 

THEN you can be happy.

 

Precisely this, chasing people and hoping someone I liked would like me just made me extremely unhappy as did the realisation my attributes are so unmarketable the chances of finding one I liked who was into me were next to none.

 

Throwing all that away and focussing on work and only work has ultimately made me happier, I am not one who gives up easily but I simply cannot keep getting smacked to the ground by rejection and for me the healthier option has been to just simply give up completely and you know what I feel more at peace now.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

Sounds like guys are supposed to enjoy and embrace being male more than the other way around

[Justanaverageguy]

There are words that describe people like you: eternal optimist are the ones that spring to mind.

 

 

Exactly. Probably the biggest complement you could pay me. That is the whole lesson from the koan and zen. It is a bunch of mental exercises to teach you how to think positive. That's all.

 

At this point I am sure you will go on about positive this and positive that but when you had a run of zero positive you cannot tell me to be positive about something that has given me nothing positive at all.

 

You missed the part where I am simply not interested anymore, the cons outweigh the pro's and I am just not interested in having the same result nor am I interested in someone with the IQ of a 5 years, low class, poor vocab and obese physical appearance, those are the attributes I attract.

 

FYI, I don't struggle in social situation, I struggle with meaningless irrelevant chatter about who slept with who, who drank too much at yesterdays party, who is seeing who, who broke up with who, for me none of that is particularly interesting or worth talking about, again society disagrees with me.

 

Yes thats exactly what I am going to tell you. But see what you don't realise is that our initial view points are only marginally different but the end result of our thoughts is a gap so wide you don't think you can cross it. Pronouncing repeatedly that you are "not interested in something" is a 100% negative position. And in this case its also a lie. Because you would not be on here posting at all if you were really not interested. You have not made peace with it like you say. This leads to a constant chain of negative thoughts about why you don't want it which you are verbalizing on the forum. See how I have bolded those negative thoughts that come from the position you have taken up.

 

If you instead said - You are interested in finding someone but have simply not done so yet because its difficult to find someone you connect with. Now it is not 100% negative. Still has a negative aspect - but also some positive. You can be at peace with this statement and it is not lying to yourself. See how that is only very very very slightly different to what you said above but now you have a more positive view point ? Its only a slight change in mindset but this mindset replicates. You don't expend as much energy on negative thoughts because you started from just a slightly more positive place. Instead of saying you are not interested because you "struggle with irrelevant negative chatter". You now allow yourself the opportunity to say you are interested "because you enjoy positive chatter and deep thoughtful discussions". Do you see the difference ? You don't have to dismiss that this is hard to find .... just choose to focus on the positive aspect. As you become more positive you can try and move that view to an even better place over time. You don't have to turn into a crazy eternal optimist like me overnight. Just change that one little thought. That one little view point and see what happens.

 

With the Budda's lesson - what you are supposed to realise is that if all suffering comes from desire - then the inverse is also true. All pleasure also comes from desire. You increase suffering by focusing .... or deliberately not focusing .... on desires that haven't been fulfilled. (Bad idea) But you can also take a positive view point and increase pleasure by focusing on desires which have already been fulfilled and even the positive aspects of desires that haven't been fulfilled. At the moment you are doing the former even though you think you are doing the later. Its just a mindset thing. Its mental gymnastics. The difference is so small some people don't even realize it is there.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Justanaverageguy

[I_Squared_R]

I know it's an oxymoron for some of us to swear off dating and then participate in a "love" forum. The reason 'why' is a bit complicated.

 

I don't think of myself negatively, but I am unsuccessful. I think I am an average looking guy with a good personality and somehow it's impossible for me to meet someone. Dating is different from everything else in life. A child learns to ride a bicycle and falls a few times before figuring out how to steer correctly without training wheels. In sports I fall/lose so many times until my mind adjusts to figuring out the game. In dating I fall so many times and I still fall so many times. I try to adjust and it doesn't matter. Like all things I have ever learned I am still waiting for the day that I just figure it out, but I never do. For years I thought I was a "late bloomer" like some like to call it. Year after year goes past and I was still waiting for that day that I would wake up and finally figure it out.

 

Then we begin to realize that the game is so seriously rigged that it is impossible for some. Life still goes on while we watch the people around us form relationships that are terribly broken. People are miserable in relationships and I am still stuck here scratching my head. "Why don't they just go where it will make them happy?" "Why fight over such trivial things?" Then I start to realize that the people who are in relationships aren't special people in anyway. In fact they are flawed by insecurities or other interpersonal issues. They haven't figured out any particular way to attract women. They are just gifted differently than myself.

 

I still continue to give my attention to other people. It's like watching from the sidelines at different plays and techniques and maybe one day I will say "Holy ****, thats the golden ticket I need to *blank blank and blank*..." Although that is VERY unlikely. I like to converse with people to try and learn different things. Despite my lack of success in dating I will continue to strive for perfection although it will never materialize into any kind of relationship. The bottom line is: I participate in forums to learn and discuss. I don't expect anything to materialize from this. I am at a major disadvantage, but I can still strive to become better with interpersonal relationships even if it doesn't make me anymore successful with women.

Edited June 19, 2015 by I_Squared_R

[I_Squared_R]

Dating isn't as simple as sports. If you watch a football game, you can put the action in slow motion, and they have announcers breaking down every little detail that lead to the success and failure in each play. Dating doesn't work that way. You could meet a woman, and say one thing she doesn't like, which would almost immediately ruin any chances you had of dating her. If you said the same thing to a different girl, she might rip your clothes off. You never know.

 

One of the reasons I don't really like an online forum for dating advice is that without seeing first hand where you are dropping the ball, we can only guess what went wrong for you. If we were friends hanging out all the time, it would be much easier to tell where you are screwing things up.

 

Women want to feel good. They want to be with a guy that can make them feel good both emotionally, and physically. If you're a cool guy, happy, with a good personality that makes people enjoy being around you, then generally speaking, you will do OK with women.

 

One of the biggest problems I see with my fellow men is that they get some sort of tunnel vision when it comes to dating. They see one girl in particular that they like, they try to get with that girl only, and get turned down. I don't do things like that. I prefer to cast a wide net. Put myself out there, and see which women take the bait. Those are the ones I go for. Any woman who does not show interest in me I don't care about. They've made themselves irrelevant in my dating life.

 

I have done dozens of extreme sports over the years and I equate falling to learning. I leave every dating situation with no learning. The problem I had with dating was that I never knew where and when I fell. There's no calling her for feedback and asking her what she had thought. I leave every situation wondering where I had gone wrong and then explaining what had happened to a tee to my friends. The only logical explanation is "she just wasn't into you". Numerous times it's that same "just not into you" and I can only think that I am not attractive enough for these women. Have this happen hundreds of times with a near zero success rate and you will begin to question yourself. I began to judge myself harshly in every situation and then you begin to notice that people aren't quite as warm to you as you had previously thought. Every gossiping girl or watchful eye begins to despise you. Neither of these do anything positive for confidence.

[I_Squared_R]

The part in bold might be correct. Most of the perpetually single people I know place a lot of emphasis on being with someone attractive, and they can't ever seem to get with someone they find attractive enough. It may be that the women you are going after, just don't find you attractive. Again, I have no way of knowing. One thing I do know is that the advice given by your friends sounds like crap. They probably know what is going on, but don't have the heart to tell you. One of my oldest friends came to me recently with his dating woes, and instead of telling him that some girl wasn't into him, I told him that he is a short, fat, Asian dude. Women don't generally line up to date them. I suggested he hit the gym and lose some weight. So far, he has been following that advice, and already doing much better.

 

That probably is the reason why. I am 5'7" and one thing I have going for me is that I am thin and muscular. The only clue to my appearance was years ago there was a girl that I was very close with and she told me one time that I were ugly - thats why we couldn't date. Otherwise she'd be very into me. It's hard when that is the be all end all answer.

 

There is another girl that I was going out to dinner with and I made it very clear that it were a date (as far as calling it a "date" multiple times). I couldn't figure out her intentions so one time I made a move. She put me in the friend zone and still talks to me. She told me that she wasnt looking to date. We still get along very well, but it sucks when you think what could've been if I had gotten some other genetics.

 

Or another girl that we met through mutual friends, talked a little bit over texting and then met for coffee. Something went very awry when we initially met. I am pretty sure that she had the phony call and a time constraint to get out of it ASAP.

 

Another girl I met at classes and we began casually talking. We didn't see each other for a few months and we started flirting via text. She never seen me with contacts in and asked to see a picture. I sent it to her and she stopped talking to me for a few weeks. After a few weeks she mysteriously began texting me again in which I just ignored her.

 

EDIT: ****. im ugly. and this is why I am done. Why should I keep trying at something that only makes me feel like ****?

 

I honestly could go on and on about the rejections. These were only the past 3 months except the first story.

Edited June 20, 2015 by I_Squared_R