Marital Concepts from the 1950s

[Gloria25]

Only in the US where women are still expected to do it all and men can't be bothered to shoulder responsibility for anything... Including where their dicks go.

 

Scandinavian countries have some of the best economies in the world... The lowest discrepancy of rich vs poor, the lowest crime rates, and yea... The best benefits and truly equal policies for both men and women.

 

I always love these little stories that angry little 'men' like to tell about the good ol days when women had no choice but to put up with their crap.

 

Well, dream on. Those days are over.

 

So, in Scandanavia, the goal of turning each and every person into a "worker bee" for the "hive" has reached success?

 

Life isn't about how much money people can make - especially to support an economy. Life also entails creating future members of our society - which stem from a family unit and reaching a connection to our Creator (God). But, if you have the government raising the kids while parents work, then I guess eventually you have "drones" working to support the hive...

 

Yes, many men abused of their role as providers/protectors - but at the same time, what we have now is a group of angry women reducing to size the male gender and disrupting the family unit/values.

[xxoo]

I don't understand why people who want traditional marriages don't just do that. No sense in complaining about those who see marriage differently. Find someone who shares your values and marry them.

 

It must have sucked for people who didn't share those traditional values but were stuck in a traditional marriage anyways. The good thing about the increased choice people have today it that you can have a marriage that fits who you are! Or even not get married at all if you don't want to....

 

Exactly!

 

Choice and opportunity is good: for women, for men, and for families. A family doesn't have to be a working dad and a mom at home to be strong.

 

It is arrogance to believe that my way is the best way for all families.

[calvincline47]

My issue with it is that we do not live in isolated bubbles...what all these non-traditional peeps are doing is destroying the family unit - which in turn messes up future generations of our society.

 

Now, I'm not standing on some soapbox downtown arguing my point of view so I'm not stopping them from ruining themselves, their kids and our society...I'm just voicing my opinions when I have the opportunity to - and thankfully I can here on LS.

 

See, thing is people "need" instruction. Man, left to his own desires/devices will lead himself into error. Many of the "traditional" roles, if you think about it comes from religion and what man believes is God's instruction. God is perfect. God tells us what to do and how to live our lives cuz He knows what's best for us.

 

Definitely true.

 

I'm not even sure how people can argue with this logic.

 

It's very obvious that the vast majority of parents today are failures. Entitlement mentality is everywhere. Drug overdoses are at an all-time high. A good portion of the population is fat.

 

This all started with feminism, the sexual revolution, and women no longer taking responsibility for families.

 

A few people here and there that are traditional and have a good set of values (values, which, in actuality, were considered the norm many years ago) will not save a dying nation.

 

China is about to overtake the US as the wealthiest nation in the world. Is it a coincidence that they have things like the single mother tax (which encourages maintaining of the family unit)?

[RedRobin]

 

In this day/age, they have "choices"....and having kids is not a death sentence. Problem is they wanna have it all and just to soothe their egos.

 

 

 

That's right. Only men should be able to have it all... A career, a family.. Including a live in maid, nanny, and cook that he, um, reimburses for her time after her other possible options in life are gone. Sorry, no amount of money in the world is going to buy back your youth. And if men get to have it all, there is no effing reason why women can't either... Or just decide not to have kids or marry at all rather than support a grossly lopsided arrangement.

 

It's the men who have had it all forever, and are now having their little temper tantrums and making up BS because they actually have to contribute more to the family than a paycheck.

[calvincline47]

That's right. Only men should be able to have it all... A career, a family.. Including a live in maid, nanny, and cook that he, um, reimburses for her time after her other possible options in life are gone. Sorry, no amount of money in the world is going to buy back your youth. And if men get to have it all, there is no effing reason why women can't either... Or just decide not to have kids or marry at all rather than support a grossly lopsided arrangement.

 

It's the men who have had it all forever, and are now having their little temper tantrums and making up BS because they actually have to contribute more to the family than a paycheck.

 

Women can't have it all, like men are able to. This is because of biology.

 

Sorry, but no amount of ranting and raving and feminist ideals will change the way that the human body naturally functions.

 

Just like women are the ultimate selectors when it comes to mating, men are able to successfully mate for a longer period of time. Sorry ladies, but, contrary to what feminists have been feeding you since birth, none of us can have it all.

[xxoo]

Women striving to "have it all" increases opportunity for men to "have it all", because men didn't have it all. They were missing out on being active in their children's lives.

 

When parents share the load, both parents have more opportunities.

 

Am I the only one posting on this thread who actually has a marriage and kids?

[elaine567]

How in the world is being a SAHM/SAHW "second in command"? Your "husband" brings home that check to YOU. The day you decide to divorce him, you get half, alimony, etc. If he dare have an affair on you, he WILL come back to you cuz you are his home base and he has "something" with you - not just poops and giggles with OWs.

 

Your children look up to you. Your husband looks forward to coming home to a warm cooked meal, his woman waiting on him, etc. You "ARE" indispensable.

 

Maids, nannies, etc are doing a "job"...a SAHW/SAHM is doing a "labor of love" - they make a "house" a "home". I'm not married and/or have kids and I take pleasure in cleaning, cooking, nurturing my family. If I'm cooking, cleaning, etc for them it's cuz I love them. I care for them...it gives me "purpose" cuz I know that I can "do" something for someone I love...It's all "perspective" you know.

 

Again, at ANY job - successful or not - that employer can kick your butt to the curb and 10 other people are lined up to replace you. So, how do you feel that tops being a wife/mother to your family? Again, if a SAHW/SAHM wants to feel good about herself - volunteer. With volunteering you can gain skills and help people. People can/will look up to you and you can feel good about yourself that you sacrifice to help other w/o expecting a pay check...

 

Again, women are just so irrational. They will never be "happy".

 

I get what you are saying, but the tedium of the "labour of love" and "making a house a home" is too much for some women who are trained architects, doctors, lawyers, CEOs, entrepreneurs etc. in fact any woman who has spent years training for a job, is unlikely to be happy cleaning toilets, mopping floors and cooking meals every night for her husband and being an "unpaid slave" for her kids.

The genie is out of the bottle, I doubt it will go back in.

[RedRobin]

Definitely true.

 

I'm not even sure how people can argue with this logic.

 

It's very obvious that the vast majority of parents today are failures. Entitlement mentality is everywhere. Drug overdoses are at an all-time high. A good portion of the population is fat.

 

This all started with feminism, the sexual revolution, and women no longer taking responsibility for families.

 

A few people here and there that are traditional and have a good set of values (values, which, in actuality, were considered the norm many years ago) will not save a dying nation.

 

China is about to overtake the US as the wealthiest nation in the world. Is it a coincidence that they have things like the single mother tax (which encourages maintaining of the family unit)?

 

Men are the ones in prison, committing most of the crime, and doing most of the cheating.

 

Suck it up and start accepting responsibility.

 

How about you volunteer to help a young man where you are? Instead of bitching about women not picking up men's slack.

[Gloria25]

It's the men who have had it all forever, and are now having their little temper tantrums and making up BS because they actually have to contribute more to the family than a paycheck.

 

It's called "division of labor" and its within our biology...

 

Men strive for careers and success cuz it gets them laid and/or a wife. They take pride in their ability to bring home a paycheck. Men can endure pooopy jobs (i.e. working in coal mine) cuz their biology teaches them that they must provide and protect for their women and kids.

 

Ever look at a man's body? It is mechanical, it is built to "work". They have upper body strength. Their brains are logical and lack emotion like females do. If anyone is ever confused as to the gender roles, then look at our biology.

 

Women are nurturers, we are "social" creatures. We are emotional. That gives us the ability to tap into what's going on with people and "communicate/connect". We make a "house" a "home"....which men look forward to coming home to.

 

Look at a woman's body, it was created to reproduce. It has hormones - we were built a certain way for a certain reason.

 

No role is superior than the other - they both come together to form a "team". Both have strengths and weaknesses.

 

So, cuz I force a guy to help me with the dishes means he's finally "contributing" to the family? Pleeze. Ok, then women need to go change the oil on the car, cut the grass and take out the trash. Why do women think men have it "made" at the workplace like on Man Men - where they walk around and smoke and have drinks? I'm a woman and worked all my life. I hate the poop I gotta put up with at work. I get yelled at, pressure to succeed, etc. So, to say that men are just having a good time at work while women are at home suffering is ridiculous.

 

It's called "division" of labor. Man bring home bacon...woman cook bacon.

[calvincline47]

I get what you are saying, but the tedium of the "labour of love" and "making a house a home" is too much for some women who are trained architects, doctors, lawyers, CEOs, entrepreneurs etc. in fact any woman who has spent years training for a job, is unlikely to be happy cleaning toilets, mopping floors and cooking meals every night for her husband and being an "unpaid slave" for her kids.

The genie is out of the bottle, I doubt it will go back in.

 

Do you know many female doctors? I do. Without fail, they regret becoming doctors. Because they are either unable to have kids or spend way too much time away from their kids.

 

Instead of being an "unpaid slave" (which they are not....they are mothers, fulfilling their natural place in life), they are "wage slaves", a life that is ultimately unfulfilling for them and goes against their nature.

[writergal]

I recommend reading A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith. It's a fictionalized memoir set in the 1st two decades of the 20th century, in Brooklyn, New York. It touches on the success or lack thereof of many marriages. It seems they had the same range of issues we have today, and the same range of marital unhappiness. The difference is that most of them did not divorce, they just lived in misery, rage, and despair.

 

Happy Saturday!

 

That's my absolute favorite book. Read it when I was a kid. Must be why I view marriage with a LOT of skepticism to the point where marriage isn't on my priority list. I don't trust marriage as a true representation of two people's commitment to each other. I'd rather be single my entire life then be legally bound to a man who doesn't really love or like me and has major problems.

[calvincline47]

Men are the ones in prison, committing most of the crime, and doing most of the cheating.

 

Suck it up and start accepting responsibility.

 

How about you volunteer to help a young man where you are? Instead of bitching about women not picking up men's slack.

 

This has nothing to do with my post.

 

And what should I be accepting responsibility for exactly?

[calvincline47]

It's the men who have had it all forever, and are now having their little temper tantrums and making up BS because they actually have to contribute more to the family than a paycheck.

 

What do women contribute exactly?

 

From what I've seen, today's woman is a poor mother that is overly concerned with consumerism. She works when she does not have to and makes the working world unpleasant for everybody.

 

It seems that women can't do basic feminine things anymore because they are too busy trying to compete with men and are failing miserably.

[RedRobin]

I get what you are saying, but the tedium of the "labour of love" and "making a house a home" is too much for some women who are trained architects, doctors, lawyers, CEOs, entrepreneurs etc. in fact any woman who has spent years training for a job, is unlikely to be happy cleaning toilets, mopping floors and cooking meals every night for her husband and being an "unpaid slave" for her kids.

The genie is out of the bottle, I doubt it will go back in.

 

If a man won't do that work, why should she? It is pure propaganda straight out of the Victorian era that romanticized that role.

 

Prior to the Industrial Age.. Every man was a stay at home dad, and every woman was a working wife. It was only when the new factories required all those bodies, did the notion of the so called happy homemaker take root... Which you correctly pointed out was not an option for a vast number of families.

 

If anyone wants someone to blame, you can blame industrialization and never ending consumerism... Which has alienated men from their families, and created situations where most people simply can't make ends meet with one paycheck.

 

....and regarding the idea that somehow any company can replace you in a heartbeat, but somehow one individual is more trustworthy... Oh, I dunno, even if he was... People get sick, people die or get killed. It is only smart to utilize every skill you were born with. It doesn't make sense to bank everything you have on one individual OR institution.

[RedRobin]

What do women contribute exactly?

 

From what I've seen, today's woman is a poor mother that is overly concerned with consumerism. She works when she does not have to and makes the working world unpleasant for everybody.

 

It seems that women can't do basic feminine things anymore because they are too busy trying to compete with men and are failing miserably.

 

Not failing miserably at all. More women are attending college than men. More men are in prison, commit crime, do drugs, and are alcoholics.

 

It seems it is the men who are having the issues. The women are doing just fine. *shrug*

 

Like I said, if you really want to make a difference, go volunteer to help struggling youth and families before they go off the rails...

 

It also isn't that hard to learn how to do a few things for yourself...

[RedRobin]

This has nothing to do with my post.

 

And what should I be accepting responsibility for exactly?

 

You are a man, so you are responsible for all of the crime, wars, addictions, etc that your fellow men created.

 

See how that works?

[xxoo]

Do you know many female doctors? I do. Without fail, they regret becoming doctors. Because they are either unable to have kids or spend way too much time away from their kids.

 

Instead of being an "unpaid slave" (which they are not....they are mothers, fulfilling their natural place in life), they are "wage slaves", a life that is ultimately unfulfilling for them and goes against their nature.

 

I know a few female doctors, all married with kids. My children's dr only worked 3 days a week until her children were all in school. She has a supportive husband, so they were able to work it out during that time. Teamwork!

[calvincline47]

I know a few female doctors, all married with kids. My children's dr only worked 3 days a week until her children were all in school. She has a supportive husband, so they were able to work it out during that time. Teamwork!

 

This is not the norm. And it's not what I've seen from working directly with and having close friends that are female doctors (beyond simply knowing them).

 

But, hey, if a female doctor wants to marry me, pop out some kids in residency, then I'll be the stay at home dad forever, sounds good to me. She could work and we could live off of her money. Let them have the stress and heart attacks.

[RedRobin]

So, in Scandanavia, the goal of turning each and every person into a "worker bee" for the "hive" has reached success?

 

Life isn't about how much money people can make - especially to support an economy. Life also entails creating future members of our society - which stem from a family unit and reaching a connection to our Creator (God). But, if you have the government raising the kids while parents work, then I guess eventually you have "drones" working to support the hive...

 

Yes, many men abused of their role as providers/protectors - but at the same time, what we have now is a group of angry women reducing to size the male gender and disrupting the family unit/values.

 

Oh, another person who has no idea about Scandinavian culture. Ever been there? They get more paid leave... Like, more than double what even the best companies offer in the US... they get maternity AND paternity leave... They believe in balance.

 

It is the US that believes in worker bees... Heck, we work more hours than just about any other culture.

 

Men are reducing to size their own gender. Most violence against men is committed by, you got it, men. Most violence in general is from men.

 

The way I see it, women have been cleaning up men's messes forever. And they don't want to do it so much anymore. The men get to cleanup their own messes for a change... As it should be.

[calvincline47]

Not failing miserably at all. More women are attending college than men. More men are in prison, commit crime, do drugs, and are alcoholics.

 

It seems it is the men who are having the issues. The women are doing just fine. *shrug*

 

Like I said, if you really want to make a difference, go volunteer to help struggling youth and families before they go off the rails...

 

It also isn't that hard to learn how to do a few things for yourself...

 

Failing in the general sense. Our society is declining and we are heading towards losing our status as a superpower.

 

Of course, these days, having a college degree doesn't guarantee a job at all. So having a college degree, in many situations, is completely useless.

 

No surprise that this all began when women came to power.

[carhill]

Ha, remembering a phrase I heard as a child, and not just from my own mother, but others, when anyone questioned their ostensibly subservient role in the home, specifically 'your father may be the head of the household but I'm the neck and the head turns where I direct it', this generally when I thought, mistakenly, that I could get away with more mischief with mother than father. Indeed, all it took was a quiet word between wife and husband when he got home from work and my goose was cooked

 

Extrapolating, it makes sense that men make up the predominant residents of our prison system since men are the violent and aggressive gender and women, generally, enlist us to perform acts which they are not equipped to do or find distasteful. That's nothing new. Goes back to the 'neck' thing. Know the right sexual or emotional buttons to push in a man and he can function like a programmed robot. Women of the 50's knew this, as all women before them did. It wasn't rocket science.

[calvincline47]

Oh, another person who has no idea about Scandinavian culture. Ever been there? They get more paid leave... Like, more than double what even the best companies offer in the US... they get maternity AND paternity leave... They believe in balance.

 

Unemployment is higher and taxes are WAY higher. Also, there is "gender equality", which means that women run things and that men are feminized. Also, a rape accusation is taken as gospel there.

 

It's a utopia for women. Dystopia for men.

 

It is the US that believes in worker bees... Heck, we work more hours than just about any other culture.

 

You should have to work and earn your money.

 

Men are reducing to size their own gender. Most violence against men is committed by, you got it, men. Most violence in general is from men.

 

As opposed to women, who are so much better, right? Men will fight it out and that will be end of it. Women will go behind your back and try to completely ruin you for no reason other than the fact that you offended them.

 

Men are straight-forward. Women are backstabbers.

 

The way I see it, women have been cleaning up men's messes forever. And they don't want to do it so much anymore. The men get to cleanup their own messes for a change... As it should be.

 

Men have been supporting women for many years. The freedom of women has led to decreased responsibility, decreased happiness, increased drug overdoses, increased use of anti-depressants, declining birth and marriage rates, decreased stability, and bankrupt/declining western nations.

 

Well done, ladies. You sure showed us men what you're capable of!

[xxoo]

This is not the norm. And it's not what I've seen from working directly with and having close friends that are female doctors (beyond simply knowing them).

 

But, hey, if a female doctor wants to marry me, pop out some kids in residency, then I'll be the stay at home dad forever, sounds good to me. She could work and we could live off of her money. Let them have the stress and heart attacks.

 

I've also known couples with this set up. If that's what they want, so be it! I'm happy that they now have that option. Many women do prefer the challenge of the workplace over being primarily a nurturer of children, and many men are happy to step into the SAHD role given the choice. We are all individuals.

[RedRobin]

Failing in the general sense. Our society is declining and we are heading towards losing our status as a superpower.

 

Of course, these days, having a college degree doesn't guarantee a job at all. So having a college degree, in many situations, is completely useless.

 

No surprise that this all began when women came to power.

 

Hey, I just gave you some terrific examples of where people aren't failing, and everyone seems to be happy. Reportedly some of the happiest people in the world. Lowest crime, you name it. Germany isn't far behind, and they have a female leading their country. Both are places that are currently doing better than us.

 

And they didn't do it by chaining women to a stove.

 

Sorry, you are just gonna have to share.

[Gloria25]

I get what you are saying, but the tedium of the "labour of love" and "making a house a home" is too much for some women who are trained architects, doctors, lawyers, CEOs, entrepreneurs etc. in fact any woman who has spent years training for a job, is unlikely to be happy cleaning toilets, mopping floors and cooking meals every night for her husband and being an "unpaid slave" for her kids.

The genie is out of the bottle, I doubt it will go back in.

 

Got it, me changing my kid's diapers and/or brining my man a tall cold lemonade while he works on the lawn is "beneath" me because I have a higher degree?

 

Again, if they have a degree and/or skill then they will be marketable at any age and can get back to their careers after tending properly to their families.

 

And, mind you - even doctors, CEOs, lawyers are replaceable. Quite frankly, those are competitive fields, so you better be on your "A" game to make a go at it and be "irreplaceable".