Marital Concepts from the 1950s

[elaine567]

If however divorce rates are dropping how can a person say 'divorce was not an option' in the past?

 

 

See Divorce rate trends

[123321]

See Divorce rate trends

 

So they must have been f***ing ecstatic in their married life until the 1960s.

 

Right?

 

 

Ponder "That popular view is just as right as the currently popular view is likely to be." and try to see what is really being said before your knee jerks any more.

[carhill]

Personally I didn't get the sense that 'ecstasy' was a fundamental concept of 1950's marital concepts, rather commitment to family and community. The mindset of those socialized into the concepts from the preceding two decades and whom adhered to the concepts (yep, plenty didn't!) continued that path until things pretty much died out in the 70's in any wide sense.

 

I received a reminder yesterday when driving by a few of the cemeteries on the way home from a customer and being a bit surprised at the lack of the small flags which have decorated those places over the past decades in recognition of our military who served their country on this, Memorial Day weekend. This caused me to consider getting my own flag and placing it on my father's grave site, something which I believe is a manifestation of those old socialization concepts. No other reason; he's been dead 30 years this year. I remember vividly the tears shed by his honor guard, those young men from the nearby naval base, when they presented his flag to my mom. Traditions. A lot has changed.

[truncated]

I found this clip on youtube several years ago, and have always liked it.

 

 

 

Marraige is a partnership, with both parties playing equal roles that they need to work out for themselves.

 

I don't think there's any "one size fits all" approach.

[SoleMate]

I recommend reading A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith. It's a fictionalized memoir set in the 1st two decades of the 20th century, in Brooklyn, New York. It touches on the success or lack thereof of many marriages. It seems they had the same range of issues we have today, and the same range of marital unhappiness. The difference is that most of them did not divorce, they just lived in misery, rage, and despair.

 

Happy Saturday!

[xxoo]

So they must have been f***ing ecstatic in their married life until the 1960s.

 

Right?

 

 

Ponder "That popular view is just as right as the currently popular view is likely to be." and try to see what is really being said before your knee jerks any more.

 

They married because women had few options in those times. As others have noted, if a woman was to work, she was limited to teacher, nurse, or secretary. Of course women were capable of all sorts of work, as war years proved, but women did not have the opportunity to keep that work post-war. Success meant being attached to a successful man.

 

Enter opportunity in the 70s and 80s.....and a lot of marriages crumble. The old marriage model did not mesh well with independent, working women.

 

Adjustment happened, and Gen X changes the marriage model in positive ways. We marry less often, but when we marry, we marry more for love. We are not attached to roles, but rather teamwork. Our marriages are completely different from marriages in previous generations, and that's why the divorce rate is going down. Those of us who are married are more likely to be married because we want to be

[elaine567]

Those of us who are married are more likely to be married because we want to be

 

But is that really true?

Or has it more to do with class, education and wealth?

It may be true for your career girl or your comfortably off woman who can leave at the drop of a hat and carve out a reasonable existence on her own, but for the poorer woman, is she still as dependent on her man providing for her and her kids, as she ever was?

Is she as stuck as those women in the 1950s were?

Make do with Mr I'm in Control, or slum it on benefits?

[calvincline47]

I am in the first class of the baby boomers. At that time my best friend neighbors dad had spent the war driving a tank across Europe. While his mother was a Rosy the Riveter, running any number of machines. On talking to her she really liked her work and was upset that with the end of the war that job as taken away from her. She turned to booze.

My mom was a farm girl, the thought of her going to college, which she wanted was never going to happen. She wanted to get into government administration. Which she eventually did as a clerk in the court administrator's office of a large city. Within 5 years she was running that office. Over the years the acting CA was changed several times. She was never given a shot at that position because of her lack of college, even though each time the old CA left she was made acting CA until the county recruited a new man. And in fact ran the CA office one time for over a year, as the new recruit backed out at the last second.

I always felt sorry for my sister, who was 2 years younger. While I could be anything that I wanted to be her options were far and few between. Secretary, teacher, cook etc. In fact at that time, at our high school Home Ec was required for all female students for at least 2 years. She too wanted to work in law (wanted to be a lawyer) and administration, but never got to go to school.

She has been married 3 times. What does that tell you? I should add that her first husband cheated on her.

 

Well, since women joined the work force and the economy tanked, the vast majority of my generation (both men and women) can't get jobs that they desire and have turned to booze/drugs. Birth rates and marriage rates have declined. Divorce rates have skyrocketed (since the 1950s). Other countries are now out-pacing us on every front.

 

That's not even mentioning the fact that people have lost their manners and common courtesy.

 

Pretty much everything has gone downhill since the re-definition of gender roles.

[xxoo]

But is that really true?

Or has it more to do with class, education and wealth?

It may be true for your career girl or your comfortably off woman who can leave at the drop of a hat and carve out a reasonable existence on her own, but for the poorer woman, is she still as dependent on her man providing for her and her kids, as she ever was?

Is she as stuck as those women in the 1950s were?

Make do with Mr I'm in Control, or slum it on benefits?

 

Were talking about social trends. Of course, individual results may vary.

[calvincline47]

They married because women had few options in those times. As others have noted, if a woman was to work, she was limited to teacher, nurse, or secretary. Of course women were capable of all sorts of work, as war years proved, but women did not have the opportunity to keep that work post-war. Success meant being attached to a successful man.

 

Enter opportunity in the 70s and 80s.....and a lot of marriages crumble. The old marriage model did not mesh well with independent, working women.

 

Adjustment happened, and Gen X changes the marriage model in positive ways. We marry less often, but when we marry, we marry more for love. We are not attached to roles, but rather teamwork. Our marriages are completely different from marriages in previous generations, and that's why the divorce rate is going down. Those of us who are married are more likely to be married because we want to be

 

So you think that marrying on based on a feeling (which tend to be fleeting) is more stable than marrying for practical reasons?

[calvincline47]

Were talking about social trends. Of course, individual results may vary.

 

The trends are that marriage and birth rates are way down from the past and divorce rates are way up.

 

Also, America is clearly in a decline and other countries and have caught up to us and surpassed us in just about every way.

[elaine567]

The trends are that marriage and birth rates are way down from the past and divorce rates are way up.

 

Also, America is clearly in a decline and other countries and have caught up to us and surpassed us in just about every way.

 

And women are completely to blame for that...

[Gloria25]

They married because women had few options in those times. As others have noted, if a woman was to work, she was limited to teacher, nurse, or secretary. Of course women were capable of all sorts of work, as war years proved, but women did not have the opportunity to keep that work post-war. Success meant being attached to a successful man.

 

Ok, but now that women are in the workforce, how has that improved anything?

 

I was listening to this woman who called in my fav podcaster. Both she and her husband work. She says, that at the end of the day they "both" come home tired from their 9 to 5 and have nothing left for each other.

 

She also said that they don't want to have kids cuz they are both selfish.

 

See, like my fav podcaster said - dual "career" couples often end up un-happy and/or divorced cuz "no one" is making the "house" a "home"...what you have is two people who literally are roommates who have sex. When they have a kid, cuz both work, the kid gets pawned off to daycare, babysitters and/or the public schools.

 

Then, even while women want men to share the chores, cooking, etc 50/50 cuz both work - it never ends up working out. Men simply were not created to do those types of things. Men, still look to their wives to get the nurturing they got from their mommies. So, when women tell the guy he's gotta wash his own socks, cook for himself and/or get take out - the man doesn't see his wife as his "wife" he starts seeing her as a version of himself w/o a penis - a "roommate". And/or the woman still ends up being expected to cook, clean, etc. One chick called my fav podcaster upset that even though her and her fiance agreed that he would share the cooking/cleaning/etc - he wasn't following through. So, my fav podcaster got upset and told her to leave him or get a maid.

 

Also, in dual career couples - a competition begins into where whomever brings home the bacon or more bacon "rules"...and, the couple begin to "compete" with each other. I saw this shift when I was in the military. When I was in a field that was dominated with males, they saw me more as a "byach" competing with them than a female and treated me with disdain. They felt like I was marching in on their territory....same thing with dual career couples. Men are NOT ok with their woman making the same and/or more than them...it emasculates them (unless they're a lazy bum, boy, giggalo).

 

Sad thing is that when motherhood is done right, it is a fulfilling job. If a woman has more time on her hands, why not volunteer, help out at the school, get hobbies etc.? That way she can get a sense of "accomplishment" and/or purpose w/o doing the 9 to 5 and coming home exhausted then having to blow off making the "house" a "home" and/or sexing her man.

 

And, what's wrong with women being proud of being married to a successful man? IMO, who we chose as our mates and father of our children "is" something we should be proud of. I mean, even in this day/age women still wear their husband's accomplishments on their sleeve - especially military wives.

[calvincline47]

And women are completely to blame for that...

 

Not women per se, but the destruction of the family unit (which led to all sorts of other problems).

[Gloria25]

Also, I don't get women - which goes to my point about them never being happy.

 

In this day/age, they have "choices"....and having kids is not a death sentence. Problem is they wanna have it all and just to soothe their egos.

 

Look, if you have kids, you can decide how many you want - with birth control and all. When they get a certain age, you can go back to work and/or school part-time if you're feeling "unfulfilled". I mean, by age 4ish they should be in school where you got more time on your hands.

 

When the kids get even older, you should still be able to go back to and/or start a career and/or studies. I see people - men and women - having to revamp their careers and/or educational choices at 40's 50's etc - and can pull it off.

 

Mind you, even the SAHW/SAHM in a lot of cases simply have no organizational skills and lack those basic skills that make a "house" a "home". I have a gf who stays at home with two kids. One is school aged and the house is a fing mess. What the heck does she do all day that with her not having a job that she can't simply keep the house clean?

 

So please, women need to stop already. You can have it "all", you just have to plan how you go about it; realize that you can't do it all at once; and develop some organizational skills and homemaking skills.

 

Women have so many options now a days and still aren't happy and still only see their worth in whether or not they bring home a pay check - silly if you ask me.

[alphamale]

You can have it "all", you just have to plan how you go about it; realize that you can't do it all at once; and develop some organizational skills and homemaking skills.

women can't "have it all"

[elaine567]

And, what's wrong with women being proud of being married to a successful man? IMO, who we chose as our mates and father of our children "is" something we should be proud of. I mean, even in this day/age women still wear their husband's accomplishments on their sleeve - especially military wives.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with being "second in command", some women thrive in the role of SAHM, or Mom with a P/T, usually low paid, menial job.

However, highly educated women brought up to be individuals with careers, tend not to want to spend their days being glorified nannies, cooks and house keepers, whilst her husband becomes more successful in his career.

He does that with her support, but she often gets bored, frustrated, resentful and angry and can feel trapped, folding laundry and being a taxi driver service for the kids or stacking shelves in her "flexible hours" job in the supermarket.

 

Some can duck that "house-wife" role by paying staff and commissioning child-care and going back to work, but for others that is not really an option.

[calvincline47]

Then, even while women want men to share the chores, cooking, etc 50/50 cuz both work - it never ends up working out. Men simply were not created to do those types of things. Men, still look to their wives to get the nurturing they got from their mommies. So, when women tell the guy he's gotta wash his own socks, cook for himself and/or get take out - the man doesn't see his wife as his "wife" he starts seeing her as a version of himself w/o a penis - a "roommate". And/or the woman still ends up being expected to cook, clean, etc. One chick called my fav podcaster upset that even though her and her fiance agreed that he would share the cooking/cleaning/etc - he wasn't following through. So, my fav podcaster got upset and told her to leave him or get a maid.

 

Yeah, I personally don't see a reason to even get married. I've dated women and have been friends with many. I don't really see the benefit to having a woman in my life, besides sex and occasional loneliness (though, as I'm getting older, I find myself wanting to be alone more and not really getting lonely).

 

I would like to have kids some day so I'm still looking for a woman to be my potential wife. But since I've found other methods to have children, I don't really even care about that anymore.

 

Also, in dual career couples - a competition begins into where whomever brings home the bacon or more bacon "rules"...and, the couple begin to "compete" with each other. I saw this shift when I was in the military. When I was in a field that was dominated with males, they saw me more as a "byach" competing with them than a female and treated me with disdain. They felt like I was marching in on their territory....same thing with dual career couples. Men are NOT ok with their woman making the same and/or more than them...it emasculates them (unless they're a lazy bum, boy, giggalo).

 

Don't even get me started with military women. I'm in the military right now and, trust me, you do not want a commander that is a woman.

 

And, what's wrong with women being proud of being married to a successful man? IMO, who we chose as our mates and father of our children "is" something we should be proud of. I mean, even in this day/age women still wear their husband's accomplishments on their sleeve - especially military wives.

 

Ah the dependapotomous. An interesting creature indeed. I have seen her often in her natural habitat. You may find her at local establishments demanding discounts for "her" military service and at medical groups across the nation demanding free health care.

 

Also, I don't get women - which goes to my point about them never being happy.

 

In this day/age, they have "choices"....and having kids is not a death sentence. Problem is they wanna have it all and just to soothe their egos.

 

Look, if you have kids, you can decide how many you want - with birth control and all. When they get a certain age, you can go back to work and/or school part-time if you're feeling "unfulfilled". I mean, by age 4ish they should be in school where you got more time on your hands.

 

When the kids get even older, you should still be able to go back to and/or start a career and/or studies. I see people - men and women - having to revamp their careers and/or educational choices at 40's 50's etc - and can pull it off.

 

Mind you, even the SAHW/SAHM in a lot of cases simply have no organizational skills and lack those basic skills that make a "house" a "home". I have a gf who stays at home with two kids. One is school aged and the house is a fing mess. What the heck does she do all day that with her not having a job that she can't simply keep the house clean?

 

So please, women need to stop already. You can have it "all", you just have to plan how you go about it; realize that you can't do it all at once; and develop some organizational skills and homemaking skills.

 

Women have so many options now a days and still aren't happy and still only see their worth in whether or not they bring home a pay check - silly if you ask me.

 

I know women like this. Women that wanted to go into super long careers and put off children until later. They hit their mid-30s and finally decide to have children. Well, guess what? They are unable to conceive because they are advanced maternal age.

 

Don't get me wrong. I feel bad for them. Some of them are really nice people, but they were fed a lie by feminism from the day they were born. They bought into the BS and are now suffering the consequences.

 

The fact is that men and women are not biologically the same. I could put off having kids until I'm 50 and can still be successful. Women, in general, can't. That's life.

[MissBee]

I recommend reading A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith. It's a fictionalized memoir set in the 1st two decades of the 20th century, in Brooklyn, New York. It touches on the success or lack thereof of many marriages. It seems they had the same range of issues we have today, and the same range of marital unhappiness. The difference is that most of them did not divorce, they just lived in misery, rage, and despair.

 

Happy Saturday!

 

It always amazes me when people look at the past with rose-tinted glasses.

[Gloria25]

It always amazes me when people look at the past with rose-tinted glasses.

 

The past wasn't "perfect" and nothing is, but the chaos of what is considered a "family unit" now a days is just horrible and won't get any better unless people wise up.

[xxoo]

Ok, but now that women are in the workforce, how has that improved anything?

 

yes, absolutely. Couples can choose to organize their family roles as they see fit, and capitalize on each other's strengths, rather than being restricted by social gender roles. My family is definitely better off with two parents who can support the family if needed, as well as two active parents who have strong relationships with our children. And when we both work, we can both work a little less and both be involved in the child care duties.

 

Women in the workforce didn't prevent me from being a SAHM for ten years. We, as a married couple, made that choice, and we were free to do so. We made choices together to facilitate that. Others make other choices that work better for their family. Absolutely, this is an improvement.

[Gloria25]

I don't think there is anything wrong with being "second in command", some women thrive in the role of SAHM, or Mom with a P/T, usually low paid, menial job.

However, highly educated women brought up to be individuals with careers, tend not to want to spend their days being glorified nannies, cooks and house keepers, whilst her husband becomes more successful in his career.

He does that with her support, but she often gets bored, frustrated, resentful and angry and can feel trapped, folding laundry and being a taxi driver service for the kids or stacking shelves in her "flexible hours" job in the supermarket.

 

Some can duck that "house-wife" role by paying staff and commissioning child-care and going back to work, but for others that is not really an option.

 

How in the world is being a SAHM/SAHW "second in command"? Your "husband" brings home that check to YOU. The day you decide to divorce him, you get half, alimony, etc. If he dare have an affair on you, he WILL come back to you cuz you are his home base and he has "something" with you - not just poops and giggles with OWs.

 

Your children look up to you. Your husband looks forward to coming home to a warm cooked meal, his woman waiting on him, etc. You "ARE" indispensable.

 

Maids, nannies, etc are doing a "job"...a SAHW/SAHM is doing a "labor of love" - they make a "house" a "home". I'm not married and/or have kids and I take pleasure in cleaning, cooking, nurturing my family. If I'm cooking, cleaning, etc for them it's cuz I love them. I care for them...it gives me "purpose" cuz I know that I can "do" something for someone I love...It's all "perspective" you know.

 

Again, at ANY job - successful or not - that employer can kick your butt to the curb and 10 other people are lined up to replace you. So, how do you feel that tops being a wife/mother to your family? Again, if a SAHW/SAHM wants to feel good about herself - volunteer. With volunteering you can gain skills and help people. People can/will look up to you and you can feel good about yourself that you sacrifice to help other w/o expecting a pay check...

 

Again, women are just so irrational. They will never be "happy".

[Weezy1973]

I don't understand why people who want traditional marriages don't just do that. No sense in complaining about those who see marriage differently. Find someone who shares your values and marry them.

 

It must have sucked for people who didn't share those traditional values but were stuck in a traditional marriage anyways. The good thing about the increased choice people have today it that you can have a marriage that fits who you are! Or even not get married at all if you don't want to....

[RedRobin]

 

Pretty much everything has gone downhill since the re-definition of gender roles.

 

Only in the US where women are still expected to do it all and men can't be bothered to shoulder responsibility for anything... Including where their dicks go.

 

Scandinavian countries have some of the best economies in the world... The lowest discrepancy of rich vs poor, the lowest crime rates, and yea... The best benefits and truly equal policies for both men and women.

 

I always love these little stories that angry little 'men' like to tell about the good ol days when women had no choice but to put up with their crap.

 

Well, dream on. Those days are over.

[Gloria25]

I don't understand why people who want traditional marriages don't just do that. No sense in complaining about those who see marriage differently. Find someone who shares your values and marry them.

 

It must have sucked for people who didn't share those traditional values but were stuck in a traditional marriage anyways. The good thing about the increased choice people have today it that you can have a marriage that fits who you are! Or even not get married at all if you don't want to....

 

My issue with it is that we do not live in isolated bubbles...what all these non-traditional peeps are doing is destroying the family unit - which in turn messes up future generations of our society.

 

Now, I'm not standing on some soapbox downtown arguing my point of view so I'm not stopping them from ruining themselves, their kids and our society...I'm just voicing my opinions when I have the opportunity to - and thankfully I can here on LS.

 

See, thing is people "need" instruction. Man, left to his own desires/devices will lead himself into error. Many of the "traditional" roles, if you think about it comes from religion and what man believes is God's instruction. God is perfect. God tells us what to do and how to live our lives cuz He knows what's best for us.