Thinking about reconciling with my close friend after she and my H had an EA

[elaine567]

Did he kiss her?

 

Kissing and cuddling for 3 months...

Sorry OP but - Hmm!

[wordster]

One of the truths about having another couple become a "best friends" couple, is that we tend to allow that to enclose our social relationships completely. Doing so means we are not exactly "open to" or even seeing other couples who might also be perfectly adequate as friends. (For example imagine this other couple left town for some unforeseen reason.)

 

The important thing to remember is: when one door closes, another one opens.

 

That is true. I have been reaching out to people since D-Day. In 4 months, I have strengthened old friendships and even started a new one.

 

There was a time when our children didn't get along, and we saw much less of each other. There was another time a few years ago when they considered leaving the State.

 

My H hasn't been reaching out so much. For one, he loves throwing parties, and now feels he should be spending time contemplating his life. I also think he's holding out for the friendship to be re-established.

 

I believe that part of having an A for him, required putting reality aside for a while. Reality is seeping back in by increments.

 

He has been reaching out to his long time friends, though.

 

A friend of mine that was a WW 8 years ago told me that it took two years for her to understand why her H needed NC. NC is still in effect. Easier, though, because she and her AP live in different States.

[wordster]

You and your WH must stay NC with the OW and best to sell the house and move far away from her.

 

It has been my H's lifelong dream to design and build his own house. He's an ER doctor, so the architecture is completely self taught. He's been drawing houses since I met him 33 years ago.

 

5 years ago, we finally bought some land and he started drawing house designs in ernest. He drew for almost a year before hiring a builder to build the house. That is the house we now live in, and it's absolutely beautiful.

 

It's almost energy neutral. We have a solar array and passive solar heating. We built small, so that we wouldn't have a lot of extra space when the kids moved out. It's hard enough to say NC indefinitely, but I can't ask him to leave the house he built.

[wordster]

This is implying she moved in on him, he may have moved in on her...

A woman in a bad, unhappy marriage, is a great target for men looking for an opportunity to get some.

 

My H is calling it the perfect storm. From all he's told me, it's clear that they seduced each other. He loves to rescue the maiden in distress, and she was the maiden in distress, asking to be rescued.

[writergal]

Thank you for sharing your story. You are right. I don't want to lose this huge chunk of my life. My H doesn't either. I have no practice an denying him anything big. I've never denied him anything that he felt was essential for his happiness.

 

Asking him for indefinite NC has been hard on me. But it is making me stronger, too, which is good.

 

Here's what I'd like to ask you Merrmeade.

 

My friend is not my closest friend in the world. But I'm her closest friend, I think. She had no one in our town to talk to after D-Day. She has friends, but not ones she could trust with the secret. She finally talked to a semi-close friend that was also a WW that lives one State away from us. She also told her sisters that live in another State, also.

 

She really wants to re-establish the relationship. She started reading Not Just Friends. She has said she would go to counseling with me.

 

What if I take all the time I need to heal and get myself together. Six months, a year, two years. Whatever. Then I go through a reconciliation process like I'm still undergoing with my H. Just me and her. There would still be NC with him during this process. She would have to review each detail of the affair with me. Be honest about herself, and what led her into this. Look at herself. Rebuild trust with me. All without the promise that we would be friends at the end. And with the possibility of NC with my husband for the rest of her life.

 

Do you think it could work, then?

 

That is a very hopeful of you but unrealistic at the same time considering how she betrayed the friendship and stomped on the sanctity of marriage -- 2 marriages at the same time -- with her actions.

 

I think it's likely she will resume right where she left off with your husband once you establish contact with her. You will obviously have to tell your husband that you're in co-therapy sessions with her, which could re-ignite his interest in her again. So, I don't really think doing co-therapy with your friend would have the outcome that you hope for.

[wordster]

IMO her idea of doing IC with you is just to keep the drama flying. You have been her steady friend for years while she is having fast friendships blossom and die out. IMO, its just your turn to die out.

 

In her mind, you weren't important to start with. Doing mushrooms doesn't make someone cheat. I think she moved in knowing your husband felt vulnerable.

 

Deciding to cheat is her business, but there are way too many other fish in the sea, to instead poach one's friends husbands, and especially a friend who had "been there for her" for years.

 

She clearly does not have respect for you. I think you are seeing her the way you want her to be, rather than how she really is.

 

I agree that she doesn't respect me. Anyone that abuses someone, and expects to be taken back, doesn't respect the person they abused. It's true.

 

The process could bring about a change in her. Or maybe it won't. I have changed things about myself over the years.

[Grapesofwrath]

I met my H when I was 17. We got married while in college. We are soul mates and best friends. We laugh and have our own language and go on dates. We talk about almost everything. We travel. We have a great sex life. We've been together for 33 years. We have two teen-aged children still at home.

 

We live in a small town. We moved here 15 years ago with another couple. The wife of the couple is my H's EAP. She was my friend in both high school and college, and beyond. She calls us BFs because we are close, but I've never felt comfortable with that terms. She had a different BF in high school. I wasn't her maid of honor at her wedding. She tends to have intense friendships that don't last. I'm the friend that has stuck by her all these years. She has one other close childhood friend. I have several close friendships here, as well as long-distance friendships from earlier in life.

 

D-Day was 4 months ago. Though my H and my friend have known each other for 30 years as well, and we've been on many vacations together, they didn't "fall in love" until two years ago under the influence of psychedelic mushrooms. Last October they crossed the line into snuggling and kissing and saying I love you. This went on for over 3 months. After D-Day, I said to my husband NC or we have to separate. We stayed together

 

Since then, H and I have been to IC and CC. He says he never planned to leave me. He thought he could have his thrill of falling in love, and it would run its course, and I'd never know. When his feelings from my friend intensified, and threatened to turn into a PA, he ended it. I accept that he's a risk-taker and is going through a mid-life. He's been unhappy at work for several years. All these factors played into his crappy choice. Still it hurts like crazy. I'm bewildered, devastated, in pain. I've always been so careful not to hurt him all these years, and to meet his needs.

 

He has held me for a few months of near daily crying, and listened to me talk, and apologized, and read Shirley Glass book on infidelity. He is working on the source of his deep unhappiness with life in general. I have learned to speak up for myself. We've been working on how to communicate in areas where we disagree.

 

In the beginning, I talked to my friend, too. Then I switched to NC with her because she seemed to have little understanding of what I'm going through. She blamed her behavior on her bad marriage, when in fact she lied to me for months and abused me as a friend. Part of me would like to end the friendship forever. But she wants to try to work things out. She is reading the infidelity book right now, and says she'd be willing to go into counseling with me. I feel like I should give her a chance.

 

I would love input from any BS that experienced double betrayal like I did. Did you forgive your friend? Also, from any women who betrayed their best friends. My other close friends tell me that my friend was never really my friend if she did that to me. Is that true?

 

I've poked around threads looking for a story like mine with no success. If you know of such a thread, please point me in the right direction.

 

Thank you!!!!!!

 

Not exactly the same...but here is my experience. I had a friend. Emphasis on Had. She and I were very close. She was unhappy in her marriage for many years, and we would talk for hours about how to work on the issues, actions to take, etc. She had a few serious flirtations, and I cautioned her against entering an A.

 

Long story short, we shared a network of friends, mostly married couples, because our children all attended the same preschool. she slept with one of the husbands, justifying that as being because she thought the wife was "annoying." Meanwhile, this wife considered her one of her closest friends. Very quickly thereafter (like within days) she started sleeping with her married neighbor across the street. Again, the wife considered this woman to be a close friend. That A ended because the WH couldn't give my X-friend enough time.

 

A couple months later, she started sleeping with another husband of a friend. This particular BW was going through treatment for breast cancer. So my ex-friend was sleeping with the husband of her "friend" undergoing cancer treatment. When I confronted her about it, she said, "So? She has cancer. So what? What does that have to do with me?"

 

I ended the friendship. She never slept with any man of mine, but I had to end it. What kind of person does this to "friends?" Someone who lacks empathy for others in the most extreme manner possible. I knew that I could never trust her, not in any capacity.

 

Your "friend" has shown you who she is. Believe her. She puts herself before you. Puts her desires before your well-being. If you want to R with your husband, that's another issue. You only have one husband. But friends? You can make more friends.

[wordster]

Did he kiss her?

 

Yes. The day after D-Day I asked how many times, and he said around a dozen. Since then, we've talked about each occasion. The discovery period was painful, and lasted a couple of weeks.

[wordster]

Hysterical bonding is the passionate sex some reconciling couples engage in after Dday.

 

Interesting. Our sex is always intimate and intense and passionate. It has gotten a little more frequent. The first few times, I cried afterwards.

[Grapesofwrath]

The husband of my H's EA does not know the details. He's very spiritual, and felt he could deal with this best by letting go of everything. I think that will change at some point.

 

For me and EA is worse than a non-emotional PA. For my husband, though, it seems the opposite is true. The wake up call for him happened when he thought sex was a short step away.

 

I agree with you that I need a different kind of friend than she is now. However, I believe that she will never change if I cut her out of my life. I don't feel I owe her anything, I just hate to give up on people.

 

I don't think you are giving up on her. She gave up on you. She cut the bond of friendship. Clearly you have a very big and generous heart. I believe you can use those gifts to release the anger you feel and move past the hurt. But it would be a waste of them, utterly, to squander them on remaining open to someone who so clearly does not deserve it.

[wordster]

Kissing and cuddling for 3 months...

Sorry OP but - Hmm!

 

He could be lying to me, or he could be telling the truth. I asked him to tell me everything, no matter how much it hurt to hear it, and he said many things that hurt A LOT. I told him that the intimacy between them hurt more than a purely PA would have. He's had many opportunities to come clean about having sex with her at this point.

 

If he has chosen to lie to me about this, it's between him and his conscience.

 

I will keep up the NC rule until I FEEL safe. If I turn out to be wrong, and the heroin effect of new love overcomes both of their resolve to never have an A again, I will find out about it eventually, and then the H and I will separate. My friend will be out of my life forever.

 

I've been thinking a lot about what my life will be if that happens, where I would live, what I would say to our children, how I would earn money (I'm an artist, so don't come close to supporting myself), how I would deal with my loneliness. I recognize that my H has brought a lot fun, friendship, zest, and passion to my life. I would be very, very lonely without him.

 

Besides being a vulnerable softie, I am tough and brave, too. I have coping mechanisms. I withstood a motherless childhood with a very intense father and dominant sister. I have forgiven my mother for abandoning me, and established strong relationships with my father and sister. They have both been hugely supportive during this period.

 

I have developed many lifelong friendships.

 

If the H and I separate, I will seek out support from my friends and family. I will keep busy by going back to school and starting a new career. I will join a spiritual community of some kind, probably Buddhist. I will care for our children. I might get swept off my feet by a new man. Who knows? There are men in this community that consider me desirable. There are HS classmates of mine still interested in me.

 

I hate the idea of living apart from my H, but I won't become a suspicious person or policeman for the rest of my life to keep him either. He has to step up to the plate and take responsibility for himself. If he can't, then we both will suffer the consequences. That's what happens when you tie your life to someone else's.

 

All I know is that I'm never going through R again. If this A or another A happens, I will go into mourning for the loss of my marriage instead.

[wordster]

That is a very hopeful of you but unrealistic at the same time considering how she betrayed the friendship and stomped on the sanctity of marriage -- 2 marriages at the same time -- with her actions.

 

I think it's likely she will resume right where she left off with your husband once you establish contact with her. You will obviously have to tell your husband that you're in co-therapy sessions with her, which could re-ignite his interest in her again. So, I don't really think doing co-therapy with your friend would have the outcome that you hope for.

 

I will think about this. Thank you for sharing your feelings on this.

[onemanband]

Stop making excuses for him bottem line he played you ,what does your gut tell you, I really hope you can work things out but take care of yourself he needs to take care of your needs right now , it's gonna be a long journey take as much time as you need and don't let him off the hook

[wordster]

Not exactly the same...but here is my experience. I had a friend. Emphasis on Had. She and I were very close. She was unhappy in her marriage for many years, and we would talk for hours about how to work on the issues, actions to take, etc. She had a few serious flirtations, and I cautioned her against entering an A.

 

Long story short, we shared a network of friends, mostly married couples, because our children all attended the same preschool. she slept with one of the husbands, justifying that as being because she thought the wife was "annoying." Meanwhile, this wife considered her one of her closest friends. Very quickly thereafter (like within days) she started sleeping with her married neighbor across the street. Again, the wife considered this woman to be a close friend. That A ended because the WH couldn't give my X-friend enough time.

 

A couple months later, she started sleeping with another husband of a friend. This particular BW was going through treatment for breast cancer. So my ex-friend was sleeping with the husband of her "friend" undergoing cancer treatment. When I confronted her about it, she said, "So? She has cancer. So what? What does that have to do with me?"

 

I ended the friendship. She never slept with any man of mine, but I had to end it. What kind of person does this to "friends?" Someone who lacks empathy for others in the most extreme manner possible. I knew that I could never trust her, not in any capacity.

 

Your "friend" has shown you who she is. Believe her. She puts herself before you. Puts her desires before your well-being. If you want to R with your husband, that's another issue. You only have one husband. But friends? You can make more friends.

 

Thank you for sharing your story! I really appreciate your perspective. I have thought all the things you wrote in the finally paragraph. She put herself before me, her desires before my well-being. I think she never believed I would know. She can sometimes be judgmental. Certainly what she did showed her lack of empathy for me at the time.

 

However, she's not a serial betrayer like your friend. Yet, anyway. If, after months or years, she can see how deeply she hurt me to meet her own needs, perhaps it will keep her from following in your friends' footsteps.

 

My friend's husband has told someone about the A that's a gossip. I found this out recently. I've only told two close friends in the town about it, and one of them heard about it a second time through this gossip. It's likely that pretty soon everyone will know. Since our town is small, this will have consequences for her. Perhaps that will help her change, as well.

[onemanband]

Your friend needs to be out of your life forever now ,,,,learn the term frienemy cause that's what she is don't give her the satisfaction of being your friend , so what she had a bad life guess what now you do to because of her don't fall for the banana in the tail pipe because if she's around you and your husband the jokes on you!

[Darren Steez]

I'm not sure if he's still in the affair fog, or if he really has moved on. Either one seems possible, but option one makes me queasy. Because of my doubts, I'm sticking to NC for now.

 

It's a small town, this almost seems forced on you. As if you have to swallow it otherwise you're the bad one for causing a ruckus.

 

There also seems to be some major rugsweeping going on. No doubt your "friends" have minimized the extent of the affair, "we were being silly we kissed, now let's all move on and be pals"

 

If you want to reconcile then do it at your own pace. If you don't want to reconcile then simply don't, it's your prerogative.

 

But four months is nothing in the grand scheme of things, and that your husband and this woman were so hot and heavy, I doubt those feelings have simply gone away, hence everybody wants things to get back to normal, although they might not act on it they still want to be close rather than cut things off entirely.

 

Don't feel corralled into rushing into a situation you're not ready for or do not want.

[wordster]

It's a small town, this almost seems forced on you. As if you have to swallow it otherwise you're the bad one for causing a ruckus.

 

There also seems to be some major rugsweeping going on. No doubt your "friends" have minimized the extent of the affair, "we were being silly we kissed, now let's all move on and be pals"

 

If you want to reconcile then do it at your own pace. If you don't want to reconcile then simply don't, it's your prerogative.

 

But four months is nothing in the grand scheme of things, and that your husband and this woman were so hot and heavy, I doubt those feelings have simply gone away, hence everybody wants things to get back to normal, although they might not act on it they still want to be close rather than cut things off entirely.

 

Don't feel corralled into rushing into a situation you're not ready for or do not want.

 

All the comments on this thread have given me a lot to reflect on. I don't know what my friend is thinking right now. We talked in the beginning. At that point, she was definitely rug-sweeping. We haven't talked about the A for the past three months, except for me to remind her about the new boundaries. No chit-chat. No gifts. No contact, period, not even for medical situations.

 

I will proceed at my own pace. My family and friends have been saying that all along. I just haven't been a good listener. All the cautionary tales here have sunk in, and I will wait until I'm ready and feel safe.

 

The most recent corralling has all been self imposed. I felt that I should be moving things along. Now I realize I should be working on myself and my marriage. Thank you.

[wordster]

This morning, my H and I had a fight that turned into a talk.

 

My H is big-hearted and generous. He does many things for many people. He is nonjudgmental and kind. He's the kind of guy that pays for the drunk's taxi ride home from the ER. He is a rescuer. He likes to create magical experiences for people. He is well loved in the community.

 

Every day, I try to understand how he could do something that would hurt me this much, when generally speaking he's not the type to hurt people. I examine the patterns of our relationship endlessly.

 

He's always had good ideas and a lot of passion around having them fulfilled. I tend to have fewer ideas, and a natural follower. When he's spinning a new idea, he HATES it when I shoot it down with reality. I try to keep this to a minimum these days, only standing up for the things that really affect me or I have strong feelings about.

 

I do fulfilling things for myself. I've devoted myself to my him, which has mostly been a pleasure, my kids, which has been very satisfying, and my art, also satisfying. But I've given up a lot for all this, too. I'm not even sure what I want a lot of the time.

 

Right now, I think about the bits of him that are selfish, wondering if I allowed that side of him to develop by being so accommodating over the years.

 

I wonder if he had the A because I don't respect myself enough. Maybe if I felt more worthy, he would've seen me as more worthy, and would've recognized what he was risking more clearly.

 

I so badly want to understand.

 

When I read the threads of the OW/OM page, all those people sound so selfish to me, way more selfish than my H. Reading there hasn't given me insight at all.

[VeryBrokenMan]

This morning, my H and I had a fight that turned into a talk.

 

My H is big-hearted and generous. He does many things for many people. He is nonjudgmental and kind. He's the kind of guy that pays for the drunk's taxi ride home from the ER. He is a rescuer. He likes to create magical experiences for people. He is well loved in the community.

 

Every day, I try to understand how he could do something that would hurt me this much, when generally speaking he's not the type to hurt people. I examine the patterns of our relationship endlessly.

 

He's always had good ideas and a lot of passion around having them fulfilled. I tend to have fewer ideas, and a natural follower. When he's spinning a new idea, he HATES it when I shoot it down with reality. I try to keep this to a minimum these days, only standing up for the things that really affect me or I have strong feelings about.

 

I do fulfilling things for myself. I've devoted myself to my him, which has mostly been a pleasure, my kids, which has been very satisfying, and my art, also satisfying. But I've given up a lot for all this, too. I'm not even sure what I want a lot of the time.

 

Right now, I think about the bits of him that are selfish, wondering if I allowed that side of him to develop by being so accommodating over the years.

 

I wonder if he had the A because I don't respect myself enough. Maybe if I felt more worthy, he would've seen me as more worthy, and would've recognized what he was risking more clearly.

 

I so badly want to understand.

 

When I read the threads of the OW/OM page, all those people sound so selfish to me, way more selfish than my H. Reading there hasn't given me insight at all.

 

I think there are different types of cheaters. It sounds like your husband is a good man that just got caught up in something much like my wife. It does not make them bad people and I don't think they set out to hurt us. They just have a terrible character flaw that allows them to do something so horrible to someone they love. And I believe that they truly see their needs as more important than ours in their minds. I want to understand her affair as well but I've come to the conclusion that there is no understanding an affair because you and I are not cheaters and we will never understand what a cheater thinks.

[elaine567]

When I read the threads of the OW/OM page, all those people sound so selfish to me, way more selfish than my H. Reading there hasn't given me insight at all.

 

Yes, but your husband was being selfish too.

[MJJean]

As a doctor he must compartmentalize very well. He very likely put you and your marriage in one compartment and the affair in another. For him, everything was nice and neat. He could have his desire and he could have a marriage to you without any problems at all because HE compartmentalized. Meaning, nothing of the affair touches you or the marriage in his mind.

 

As for the "friend", you've said that she has no long lasting friendships, that she admitted she pretty much "fakes it" with people. Well, maybe there's a reason people befriend her and then keep her at arms length. Maybe they see she is toxic. Just because YOU are HER one real friend doesn't mean that you are special to her. It means she is special to you. Big difference.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Know how many nice guys have affairs.....lots. They have serious boundary issues and get caught up in being the KISA.....it feeds their sense of self in an unhealthy way. They end up on the slippery slope without a clue until the fall is well on its way....or until they hit bottom. They never intended to end their marriage or set out to betray due to unhappiness with their SO. These are the men that are more likely to be as devastated as their SO over the affair.

 

A good read for those men is No More Mr Nice Guy. They usually are quite shocked at how many boxes it ticks off for them. It helps them to see how unhealthy it can be to be the "nice guy".

[velvette]

 

 

 

A friend of mine that was a WW 8 years ago told me that it took two years for her to understand why her H needed NC. NC is still in effect. Easier, though, because she and her AP live in different States.

 

This is a perfect example of the selfishness and lack of empathy that people display while they are cheating and sometimes for quite a while following an affair.

 

 

Two years to understand a concept that most 5 year olds could understand by simply reversing the situation and thinking about how they would feel if they had been the one who was betrayed.

[stillafool]

 

My H hasn't been reaching out so much. For one, he loves throwing parties, and now feels he should be spending time contemplating his life. I also think he's holding out for the friendship to be re-established.

 

 

I don't understand why you can't still throw parties, entertain other friends without inviting those people.

[velvette]

Your friend is what I call a toxic person and sounds like she was that way before she decided to help herself to your husband. You will be much happier in the long run imo if you keep her and her issues out of your life.

 

 

She has boundary issues bigtime. Her husband sounds the saw way with his throwing his hands up and letting things go. Finally, your H also has boundary issues.

 

 

Its enough to have one person like this, your H, in your life.

 

 

And gently, if I were you, the fact that you're even thinking about this would give me pause about my own boundaries.

 

 

Is reconciling with this friend something you really want to do, or is it just something you feel you should do or try? So everyone else will feel more comfortable? Or it seems like some more high minded sophisticated way to present yourself? I dunno. It seems so far removed from protecting your own self interest.

 

 

I think it might be a good idea to explore this more in depth with your therapist. Not if you should do it, but why you are even thinking about it.