Thinking about reconciling with my close friend after she and my H had an EA

[Timmos]

I demanded that all contact with my fww's AP and any friends who knew about it be stopped. One of those friends was a family member of mine.

 

It has caused a great deal of awkwardness in the family. For the most part we have stopped attending events because they are always there. I really don't care.

 

I love my wife, and for that I was willing to try. But I'm not married to any of the others, and frankly, they can all kiss my ass. I've not forgotten and I've not forgiven.

[whichwayisup]

You don't owe her a second chance, you have no obligations to her, no kids with her, no marriage. Just a friendship which she ruined by having an EA with your H. She was a close friend who betrayed you deeply, she chose knowingly to get involved with your husband, despite it hurting you, she helped ruin your marriage. No way should you be friends with her... For so many obvious reasons but also because of this:

 

I believe my friend wants to grow in these areas so that we have a relationship again. We love each other. But I definitely need friends right now that understand me better, are less selfish, and have my back. I don't think she can be that person for me for a long time. Maybe never.

 

She never was that person to have your back, to be a good friend to you. You could never fully trust her again.

 

It would be damaging to your marriage and be a set back if you tried to reconnect with her. NO good can come of it.

[merrmeade]

I've been there. The OW was my sister-in-law. She'd been in the family almost 20 years. When she asked me to forgive her 3 months after d-day, I did instantly but realize now that I'd projected attitudes and understanding on her that she did not have and would not develop. Talking to her after this 'forgiveness' remains as one of the worst things I've ever put myself through.

 

I don't think you've adequately thought this through. Your husband has seen your suffering, all the aspects of your pain, held you, felt your tears. He was the perpetrator, but he was also the witness. You went through all that together and even he will never really know what you've felt. So how can she possibly fully accept and acknowledge the depth of her betrayal of you without knowing that? Are you going to give it to her in counseling? Go through all that again, feel raw and bleeding for her sake?

 

You haven't thought about how you'll feel when she decides she understands just fine and you all can resume relations as before. You haven't thought about their feelings for each other. Where do you think they went? How do you expect them to go backwards? Do you think they'll just feel nothing for each other again? Won't you wonder and need to watch them? You haven't thought about the first time you see them look at each other a little too long. What will your conditions and rules be?

 

In general, you sound a little disconnected from your feelings. Reading those books can do that, but reality will be something else. I don't think it matters what we say. You need to be convinced.

[fellini]

What are the next phases? I'm not sure what you mean by "rescued." I don't want her to minimize what she did. Or sweep it under the rug. She's already told me she loves me, she's sorry, etc. etc. I would like her to be able to see what work she needs to do before we can reconcile.

 

As others have pointed out, you are only 4 months in. You have yet to pass through some phases about the truth about your husband and your marriage. These are deep truths that have yet to plant themselves in your brain and put everything around you into question.

 

If you live in a small town, or a big city, it's the same, intimacy has to change. It was precisely the intimacy you are talking about that enabled their affair. I say give it six months, see where you are with your marriage, see where you are with needing to be in a tight social circle with this couple. Maybe her H will come to the same understandng.

 

There are not 2 betrayals on the table, there are 4. There are not 2 reconciliations on the table, there are 10: You need to reconcile with your husband and your friend, your husband with you, with her husband, and, ultimately with her if he is going to be "friends" with his XAP, she with her H, your H and you, and her H with his WW and your H if he wishes to continue to be friends with your H.

 

That's a lot of repair work to be done. As others have suggested, maybe yous should focus on just 4: "me, myself, I, and WH".

[elaine567]

Last October they crossed the line into snuggling and kissing and saying I love you. This went on for over 3 months.

 

I am struggling to see this as an EA, surely this was a PA?

[fellini]

I am struggling to see this as an EA, surely this was a PA?

 

Yes, I share this concern. Perhaps the two have agreed to deny anything more than this. Are you sure OP, that you have the full story of their affair? Three months is a long time to just cuddle and kiss.

 

As I believe it was Glass who said:

 

"It's a long journey to the first kiss, and a very short one to the bed."

 

My WW had a year long EA with a colleague. Then came the first kiss in her office. Next day they were in his studio apartment moving things along.

Edited May 13, 2015 by fellini

[MJJean]

I'm surprised by the vehemence of the responses. Is this coming from personal experience? Did anyone who posted actually have a friend that continued an affair with their H or W after reconciling?

 

Though it may seem to some that I'm a doormat, I'm not.

 

I have insisted on NC since D-Day.

 

And if my husband has another affair, I will leave the marriage.

 

I can't go through this repeatedly. If he makes the mistake twice, then I will believe once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

Self-deception is a powerful force. I believe you can deceive yourself in a certain way once. But after you've been down the slippery slope into an EA, as Shirley Glass calls it, if you do it again, it's because you haven't learned from your past mistake.

 

I think it's possible that my husband learned from his mistake.

 

I'll fess up. In my first marriage I had an affair with my then husbands best friend. We'll call him J. And, yes, we did continue 5 years of off and on after my then husband knew about J and I.

 

My ex and J had a falling out over the affair the first time. But my ex brought J back into our lives about 6 months after the affair ended that time and within a few weeks we were touching, kissing, and having sex again. Then we'd decide to stop seeing each other for many reasons, end up in contact again, rinse and repeat.

 

The thing is that my first marriage was a disaster and my ex and I both had multiple affairs. The reason J was a recurring guest star was because it wasn't just sex. I had a few just sex NSA affairs and never gave those men a second thought afterwards. But J and I were close friends before we were lovers and we had an emotional attachment to go along with our physical attraction. That is primarily what kept us coming back for more.

 

Pick up a plate and toss it on the floor. Did it break? Yes? Now tell it you're sorry. Did it go back to the way it was? No? Get it?

 

Your husband and his OW betrayed you, her husband, two sets of marriage vows, and both families. That kind of betrayal is severe and there are real life consequences for such behavior. One of those consequences is ending the friendships with the OW and her H. Sorry it hurts, but tough cookies. They should have thought about that before they decided to "fall in love", "kiss", and "cuddle". They were grown adults and they knew what they were risking. They could have stopped it any time and chose not to because they thought they'd never get caught and/or that the risk was worth it. They chose to spend 3 months continuously betraying their vows and the ones they love. What does that tell you?

 

You bring her back around and it's a matter of time before they start up again.

 

Sure, they may have learned their lesson. It's possible. But are you willing to risk your marriage on it?

 

And I do understand small towns and running into each other. Which would be less of a problem if you told people the situation and let everyone know that you have ended the friendship over the EA+ kissing and that you will not accept any invitations that include her on the guest list.

Edited May 13, 2015 by MJJean

[No Limit]

Is this speculation, or are you speaking from personal experience?

 

It's observation from experiences. Just look at how many affairs are started as "harmless friendships". You are just a few months from D-Day, your husband is still caught up in the emotional mess he's in as well. But under the cover of "friendship" it's that much easier to keep going.

[wordster]

My XH's last affair partner and I communicated by message on fb and she started saying "oh, if we met under different circumstances, we would have been friends...etc" Oh Gawd...I was not interested in that. She was married, too. My thoughts were what the hell is wrong with this woman? Not, oh I want to be her friend.

 

 

I very much appreciate hearing where you're coming from! Thank you for sharing your story.

 

I would never become friends with my H's AP either. This is harder because I know this woman so well. I know all about her crappy childhood, and why she's needy.

 

I'm someone who rarely gives up on a person.

 

But the feedback I've gotten on this thread has made me realize I need to give myself more time to heal before deciding how to proceed.

[wordster]

Listen, everyone has a finite amount of emotional energy to spend. Your husbands affair is going to deplete yours. You just do not have the energy to R two relationships from betrayal at the same time...or for some of us...more than one in a lifetime.

 

Put your focus on you...the only one of the three you can trust.

 

Self-care is so very important right now, let your husband work on his issues...by all means be open to him sharing this.

 

Your friend needs to find another support system...you are much, much too busy being your own support system.

 

You've probably guessed by now that I have a tendency to put everyone else first. However, I am a gritty survivor, too. When I get pushed too far, I become unyielding. I had a tough childhood. This is by far the worst experience of my adulthood.

 

Your comment about self care really hit home. I was doing that for a short while, but then dove back into trying to move forward. I'm going to retreat into self-care mode again right now. Thank you!

[wordster]

I assume your friend is still unhappy in her marriage-and I'm surprised that her husband was willingly to overlook this whole affair in just a few short months. I'm wondering if her husband knows the complete details of what transpired. She may have told him that it was "big misunderstanding" on your behalf, or twisted it to look less guilty than it actually was.

 

In my opinion an Emotional Affair is much more serious than an affair that was purely for sexual gratification. In a mere four months she wants bygones to be bygones after she and your husband betrayed you in the worst possible way?

Your husband has agreed to NC, I would not tempt fate by putting these two in each others paths again. Your "next" best friend surely will be an improvement on someone who "cuddles up" and exchanges "I love yous'" with your husband.

 

Stay strong!

 

The husband of my H's EA does not know the details. He's very spiritual, and felt he could deal with this best by letting go of everything. I think that will change at some point.

 

For me and EA is worse than a non-emotional PA. For my husband, though, it seems the opposite is true. The wake up call for him happened when he thought sex was a short step away.

 

I agree with you that I need a different kind of friend than she is now. However, I believe that she will never change if I cut her out of my life. I don't feel I owe her anything, I just hate to give up on people.

[wordster]

I've been there. The OW was my sister-in-law. She'd been in the family almost 20 years. When she asked me to forgive her 3 months after d-day, I did instantly but realize now that I'd projected attitudes and understanding on her that she did not have and would not develop. Talking to her after this 'forgiveness' remains as one of the worst things I've ever put myself through.

 

I don't think you've adequately thought this through. Your husband has seen your suffering, all the aspects of your pain, held you, felt your tears. He was the perpetrator, but he was also the witness. You went through all that together and even he will never really know what you've felt. So how can she possibly fully accept and acknowledge the depth of her betrayal of you without knowing that? Are you going to give it to her in counseling? Go through all that again, feel raw and bleeding for her sake?

 

You haven't thought about how you'll feel when she decides she understands just fine and you all can resume relations as before. You haven't thought about their feelings for each other. Where do you think they went? How do you expect them to go backwards? Do you think they'll just feel nothing for each other again? Won't you wonder and need to watch them? You haven't thought about the first time you see them look at each other a little too long. What will your conditions and rules be?

 

In general, you sound a little disconnected from your feelings. Reading those books can do that, but reality will be something else. I don't think it matters what we say. You need to be convinced.

 

Right now, there is no way I could survive being in the same room with my H and my friend. together. Yes, I'd be wondering what they are thinking or feeling. I would be reading so much into every look they exchange. I don't think they will feel nothing for each other ever.

 

I'm very connected to my feelings. I am angry and sad and bewildered. I've lost five pounds since this happened. Right now, as I read all these responses, I'm shaking and crying, and my heart is pounding.

 

I probably spend too much time imagining every possible scenario in the future.

 

Perhaps I've been deluding myself, but I felt that if I met with her weekly for many months, I could get to a better place. I know that the outcome is uncertain. After all those meetings, the friendship might still be over. However, I pictured that it might help me handle running into her at a party or a concert or local event without freaking out.

 

I'm seeing now that I'm not ready to start this process, though.

[wordster]

As others have pointed out, you are only 4 months in. You have yet to pass through some phases about the truth about your husband and your marriage. These are deep truths that have yet to plant themselves in your brain and put everything around you into question.

 

If you live in a small town, or a big city, it's the same, intimacy has to change. It was precisely the intimacy you are talking about that enabled their affair. I say give it six months, see where you are with your marriage, see where you are with needing to be in a tight social circle with this couple. Maybe her H will come to the same understandng.

 

There are not 2 betrayals on the table, there are 4. There are not 2 reconciliations on the table, there are 10: You need to reconcile with your husband and your friend, your husband with you, with her husband, and, ultimately with her if he is going to be "friends" with his XAP, she with her H, your H and you, and her H with his WW and your H if he wishes to continue to be friends with your H.

 

That's a lot of repair work to be done. As others have suggested, maybe yous should focus on just 4: "me, myself, I, and WH".

 

You're right about the triangulation factor, and the number of reconciliations necessary for us to have a sit down dinner for four. I'm not even imagining that as part of the future yet.

 

In my convoluted scenario, I try to work through some of this with my friend. Then I won't have to worry about running into each other.

 

For example, some mutual friends are having a party. They decided to invite us, rather than the other couple. I would rather that my friends aren't put in that awkward situation five years from now.

 

I don't see us going on vacations together unless all ten reconciliations happen, which seems unlikely.

[wordster]

As others have pointed out, you are only 4 months in. You have yet to pass through some phases about the truth about your husband and your marriage. These are deep truths that have yet to plant themselves in your brain and put everything around you into question.

 

If you live in a small town, or a big city, it's the same, intimacy has to change. It was precisely the intimacy you are talking about that enabled their affair. I say give it six months, see where you are with your marriage, see where you are with needing to be in a tight social circle with this couple. Maybe her H will come to the same understandng.

 

There are not 2 betrayals on the table, there are 4. There are not 2 reconciliations on the table, there are 10: You need to reconcile with your husband and your friend, your husband with you, with her husband, and, ultimately with her if he is going to be "friends" with his XAP, she with her H, your H and you, and her H with his WW and your H if he wishes to continue to be friends with your H.

 

That's a lot of repair work to be done. As others have suggested, maybe yous should focus on just 4: "me, myself, I, and WH".

 

You're right about the triangulation factor, and the number of reconciliations necessary for us to have a sit down dinner for four. I'm not even imagining that as part of our future yet.

 

In my convoluted scenario, I try to work through some of this with my friend. Then I won't have to worry about running into her.

 

Some mutual friends are having a party. They decided to invite us, rather than the other couple. I would rather that my friends aren't put in that awkward situation five years from now.

 

I don't see us going on vacations together unless all ten reconciliations happen.

[wordster]

Yes, I share this concern. Perhaps the two have agreed to deny anything more than this. Are you sure OP, that you have the full story of their affair? Three months is a long time to just cuddle and kiss.

 

As I believe it was Glass who said:

 

"It's a long journey to the first kiss, and a very short one to the bed."

 

My WW had a year long EA with a colleague. Then came the first kiss in her office. Next day they were in his studio apartment moving things along.

 

I believe my H is telling me the truth. We've had an honest relationship up to this point, and he said that lying to me was another part of the wake-up call for him. I have asked him for all the details of the affair. They kissed for the first time in October. On Halloween they went for a hike together, and she told him they had to stop kissing. They didn't kiss again until after Thanksgiving. Things really intensified in January, and that's when my H realized that it was a short step to sex. That's when he ended it.

[onemanband]

What would you gain by letting her back into your life,nothing you will always have that thought in your mind about them,the trickled truth will always be there if you want to put yourself in that type of stutation then be her friend agian,

How you feel right now. Is how you will feel every time your around her, I'm sure this isn't the first time this has happened,why would you put the temptation in front of your husband old feeling will always come back even if it is just thinking back about the time they were together,,,,don't do it ,,,,,very bad idea unless you want to divorce your husband

[elaine567]

I believe my H is telling me the truth. We've had an honest relationship up to this point, and he said that lying to me was another part of the wake-up call for him. I have asked him for all the details of the affair. They kissed for the first time in October. On Halloween they went for a hike together, and she told him they had to stop kissing. They didn't kiss again until after Thanksgiving. Things really intensified in January, and that's when my H realized that it was a short step to sex. That's when he ended it.

 

Well I am glad you think your husband is telling the truth, but please investigate the phenomenon of "trickle truthing" as regards cheating.

Be aware.

[onemanband]

If someone broke into your house and took everything you would get a alarm system so it wouldn't happen again ...... You are the security system most people learn a lesson when something happens to them let this be a lesson learned

[wordster]

I'll fess up. In my first marriage I had an affair with my then husbands best friend. We'll call him J. And, yes, we did continue 5 years of off and on after my then husband knew about J and I.

 

My ex and J had a falling out over the affair the first time. But my ex brought J back into our lives about 6 months after the affair ended that time and within a few weeks we were touching, kissing, and having sex again. Then we'd decide to stop seeing each other for many reasons, end up in contact again, rinse and repeat.

 

The thing is that my first marriage was a disaster and my ex and I both had multiple affairs. The reason J was a recurring guest star was because it wasn't just sex. I had a few just sex NSA affairs and never gave those men a second thought afterwards. But J and I were close friends before we were lovers and we had an emotional attachment to go along with our physical attraction. That is primarily what kept us coming back for more.

 

Pick up a plate and toss it on the floor. Did it break? Yes? Now tell it you're sorry. Did it go back to the way it was? No? Get it?

 

Your husband and his OW betrayed you, her husband, two sets of marriage vows, and both families. That kind of betrayal is severe and there are real life consequences for such behavior. One of those consequences is ending the friendships with the OW and her H. Sorry it hurts, but tough cookies. They should have thought about that before they decided to "fall in love", "kiss", and "cuddle". They were grown adults and they knew what they were risking. They could have stopped it any time and chose not to because they thought they'd never get caught and/or that the risk was worth it. They chose to spend 3 months continuously betraying their vows and the ones they love. What does that tell you?

 

You bring her back around and it's a matter of time before they start up again.

 

Sure, they may have learned their lesson. It's possible. But are you willing to risk your marriage on it?

 

And I do understand small towns and running into each other. Which would be less of a problem if you told people the situation and let everyone know that you have ended the friendship over the EA+ kissing and that you will not accept any invitations that include her on the guest list.

 

Thank you for sharing your story! I so appreciate you, and everyone that has shared on this thread.

 

After talking to my therapist yesterday, and reading though all the comments here, I see that I haven't been thinking about myself enough. Strangely, the George Harrison song I, Me, Mine has been going through my head for days. Maybe George is trying to send me a message.

 

I realize now I need to take care of myself, and give myself more time before talking to my friend.

 

After some introspection, I also see that part of my motivation to talk to her comes from my tendency to put other people's happiness first. My H's desire for his circle of friends to be whole again has influenced me to rush into this.

 

I'm still optimistic enough to think it's possible to rebuild the friendship, but could take a long time. Years. My therapist says that when most people hit an obstacle, say a lake, they go around it or over it. She thinks I'm the kind of person that dives in and swim the entire length along the bottom.

 

Here's what I feel about risking my marriage. If I have to make and enforce rules to control my H for the next thirty or so years to prevent him from entering into an affair with her again or from having another affair, then he's really not the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. That's why I'm not insisting on NC forever. If he does have another affair, the marriage is over.

 

I feel like I could handle spending the next phase of my time on this earth in the company of true friends without seeking out a new life partner.

[ladydesigner]

After some introspection, I also see that part of my motivation to talk to her comes from my tendency to put other people's happiness first. My H's desire for his circle of friends to be whole again has influenced me to rush into this.

 

Why is this so important after what has happened to you? Most WS's suffer some sort of consequence for their A. I don't know it just seems like self-torture. Honestly your WS shouldn't have the comfort of his "circle of friends" to be whole again after what he has done. He has proven he has poor boundaries.

 

Like many other's have stated you need to put your happiness first. It's time to stop thinking about your friend and focus on you. Your friend was not thinking of you when she was kissing your WH.

[onemanband]

Some people are not meant to be in your life why is it you are so stuck on having this person in your life

[onemanband]

How did you find out ?

[MJJean]

Thank you for sharing your story! I so appreciate you, and everyone that has shared on this thread.

 

After talking to my therapist yesterday, and reading though all the comments here, I see that I haven't been thinking about myself enough. Strangely, the George Harrison song I, Me, Mine has been going through my head for days. Maybe George is trying to send me a message.

 

I realize now I need to take care of myself, and give myself more time before talking to my friend.

 

After some introspection, I also see that part of my motivation to talk to her comes from my tendency to put other people's happiness first. My H's desire for his circle of friends to be whole again has influenced me to rush into this.

 

I'm still optimistic enough to think it's possible to rebuild the friendship, but could take a long time. Years. My therapist says that when most people hit an obstacle, say a lake, they go around it or over it. She thinks I'm the kind of person that dives in and swim the entire length along the bottom.

 

Here's what I feel about risking my marriage. If I have to make and enforce rules to control my H for the next thirty or so years to prevent him from entering into an affair with her again or from having another affair, then he's really not the man I want to spend the rest of my life with. That's why I'm not insisting on NC forever. If he does have another affair, the marriage is over.

 

I feel like I could handle spending the next phase of my time on this earth in the company of true friends without seeking out a new life partner.

 

I can understand putting other people first. I've been doing it all my life. It takes a lot to build up before I start putting me first.

 

I can also understand wanting to give your husband back the circle of friends he so misses. But the truth is that his and the OW's actions are the cause of the rift, the rift is a consequence of their choices, and you didn't do anything wrong then or now by insisting on NC. Place the blame for the split friendships on the guilty parties where it belongs.

 

I wouldn't want to ride herd on my husband, either. However, I think I'd be much more inclined to rebuild trust and a lot less inclined to become my own personal NSA if I knew A) that he's suffered a real and permanent consequence for his actions and B) that we'd laid out some ground rules to establish boundaries between what is and is not ok since he was and maybe still is unable do to that himself. On the not ok list would be contact with the OW and/or her husband, doing psychedelics with other women, and things of that nature.

 

Why is this so important after what has happened to you? Most WS's suffer some sort of consequence for their A. I don't know it just seems like self-torture. Honestly your WS shouldn't have the comfort of his "circle of friends" to be whole again after what he has done. He has proven he has poor boundaries.

 

Like many other's have stated you need to put your happiness first. It's time to stop thinking about your friend and focus on you. Your friend was not thinking of you when she was kissing your WH.

 

Yes. Many times, yes!

[wordster]

I can understand putting other people first. I've been doing it all my life. It takes a lot to build up before I start putting me first.

 

I can also understand wanting to give your husband back the circle of friends he so misses. But the truth is that his and the OW's actions are the cause of the rift, the rift is a consequence of their choices, and you didn't do anything wrong then or now by insisting on NC. Place the blame for the split friendships on the guilty parties where it belongs.

 

I wouldn't want to ride herd on my husband, either. However, I think I'd be much more inclined to rebuild trust and a lot less inclined to become my own personal NSA if I knew A) that he's suffered a real and permanent consequence for his actions and B) that we'd laid out some ground rules to establish boundaries between what is and is not ok since he was and maybe still is unable do to that himself. On the not ok list would be contact with the OW and/or her husband, doing psychedelics with other women, and things of that nature.

 

 

 

Yes. Many times, yes!

 

I'm working on it, thank you!!!!

[wordster]

How did you find out ?

 

My H told me.

 

I was upset by a phone call between him and my friend that didn't make sense to me. I thought she was turning to him as a confidante, instead of me, which felt like a betrayal in itself.

 

When I kept asking him what she'd said to him, he told me that she didn't want me to know.

 

Finally, when I went to go sleep on the couch, a first in 33 years, he told me the truth. I was completely taken by surprise. But when I though about it, I realized the signs had been there for me to see. I am a very trusting person.