My Subordinate and I

[stillafool]

You keep saying this "girl". How old is she? I don't think she's interested because she more than likely has 'someone else' or more than one 'someone else'. As women if we really like a man it would take more than him being our boss for us to reject him. She's just not interested in you that way. Maybe because she is "hard to get" is why you want her so bad.

[autumnnight]

For those who have asked I am not married but in a relationship. I am not looking for advice on my own relationship but I want to know how to deal with this and hear from people who have been down this road before.

 

Maybe she said no because of my relationship, maybe because of her job, maybe she plays hard to get, maybe she's a flirt, maybe she just isn't in to me or maybe it's all of them.

 

People meet people they are attracted at work all the time but for me this is a new experience, especially as I am the business owner.

 

The girl has arrived in my life and the doubts I had about my relationship previously have amplified.

 

Here's a thought:

 

Before you get into your subordinate's pants, how bout breaking up with your current girlfriend?

 

Then you wouldn't be cheating.

[Friskyone4u]

Well since you are not looking to hear the truth which is that you are looking to have an affair and cheat on your partner and enter into a relationship that may cost you your partner and your job, I am not sure what you are looking for.

Don't think you are going to get much cheerleading here for what you are doing.

Single people or unattached people many times make a mess of their lives in worklplace romances. You should take the advice you have been given so far and start thinking with the head above your waist before you find yourself in a mess one way or the other.

The quickest way to an unpleasant meeting with your HR department is to start a relationship with a subordinate .

[BetrayedH]

You don't know me or my situation!

 

Fair enough. For what it's worth, I apologize for my sarcasm. It wasn't intended to be as snarky as it sounded. I should have edited it.

 

My point was simply that it's no coincidence that you're suddenly reevaluating your relationship. On this board we see a lot of wayward spouses doing what we call, rewriting of their marital history. I realize that you're not married but the concept may still be very relevanrt. When you're cheating (or considering it), there's a lot of rationalizing and engagement of mental gymnastics performed to justify our behavior. Looking back on your current relationship in a negative light is common.

 

Worse yet, your current partner (I assumed female for the sake of easy reading) is in a competition she doesn't know about. And if you're exclusive, she's not supposed to be competing with anyone. On top of that, she's competing with what really amounts to a fantasy relationship - you haven't experienced any of this girl's negative attributes and she's only shown you her best side (as you have done with her). This is besides the fact that any new relationship is going to be more exciting than an established one.

 

If you're ever going to have a long term relationship succeed, you have to learn how to make it work beyond that initial period of limerence. If not, you saddle yourself with a lifetime of 2-3 year relationships that have to be replaced by the next exciting one. Limerence fades. In my experience, real love matures into something more akin to a deep, mutual respect and admiration. And it happens after you've been thru tough periods. The love develops from having stayed together regardless of the difficulties.

 

My point here is that it's inherently unfair to compare your current partner with a new one. If you do that, your current partner has no chance.

 

I once saw an interview that was done with several married couples that had stayed together for 40+ years. The interviewer asked if any of them had ever not been in love with their spouse. There was a collective chuckle in the room as nearly everyone concurred. One of them volunteered, "Hell, there were years when I don't think either of us even liked each other."

 

Is it possible that your current partner is just a bad person or a bad match for you? Sure. But doing a comparison with a newly budding relationship is categorically unfair and will lead to the same conclusion every time. I'd highly suggest that you remove this potential affair partner from the equation entirely.

 

And you're welcome for the book suggestion. I really do hope you buy it. It's a small investment for a big decision and I think it will open your eyes to looking at all of this in a different light, which is probably exactly what you need.

 

And just to restate it, please don't concern yourself with any judgement from me. I've made all of the mistakes myself already, including having an affair. My point in being here is to help others avoid making some of the same ones. I'm not here to slam you.

[truncated]

I suggest that you read one of the many threads on here that tell stories that are almost identical to yours. Certain nuances may be different, but the fundamentals are the same.

 

 

Maybe it's a part of human nature go want what we don;t have, the harder it is to get the more we want it. Ask yourself if all of the potential fallout from becoming more than work colleagues is really worth it. When it comes right down to it, you don't really know her, except a few bits and pieces, and your mind is filling in the rest.

[aliveagain]

You don't know me or my situation!

 

We don't personally know you but we all know your story. Just what do you think your showing her, that your a great prize? Even if she isn't married or in a relationship she knows you are and that your just another guy who cheats on his girlfriend/wife. Maybe this happens to her a lot. Just because you don't respect boundaries don't insult her intelligence, it's obvious she does. Work on your own relationship or get out of it.

[katielee]

 

 

 

As I write this myself and my partner are planning to go away for the weekend but all can think about is the girl and how happy I would be if we were going instead.

 

Thanks for the info on the book.

 

tell your girlfriend this and see what happens. If you have an ounce of integrity and know about how to have a mature relationship, you will.

[road]

For those who have asked I am not married but in a relationship. I am not looking for advice on my own relationship but I want to know how to deal with this and hear from people who have been down this road before.

 

Maybe she said no because of my relationship, maybe because of her job, maybe she plays hard to get, maybe she's a flirt, maybe she just isn't in to me or maybe it's all of them.

 

People meet people they are attracted at work all the time but for me this is a new experience, especially as I am the business owner.

 

The girl has arrived in my life and the doubts I had about my relationship previously have amplified.

 

 

 

 

Why do you play games and not fully honest?

 

 

Why do you refuse to state the marriage status with this employee?

 

 

Why did you leave out that you are not just the boss but the business owner?

 

 

Why are you asking her out when you are in another relationship?

 

 

Why do you think it is ok to cheat on the person you are already with?

[road]

You don't know me or my situation!

 

 

Spin speak

 

 

Liar speak

 

 

Damage control speak

 

 

Politician avoiding the issue speak.

 

 

Take your pick.

[Chasing_mya]

SSM3, I have never been in your situation but glad that you came on here to get insight from others who have. No one can tell you how YOU feel or if you're in love or not .Its not one's place to assume because only you know that. If you feel you're falling in love with her please tread lightly. Don't place yourself in a position where both your jobs will be in jeopardy. Sometimes we meet people that make us question our lives and relationships (that's life), we live and we learn. There is nothing wrong with questioning where you are with your partner. Just know that you can't cross the lines with this woman. If she's interested she will let you know but until than you have to fall back and enjoy the friendship. I know easier said than done but this is where you have to discipline yourself. Focus on your current partner and what you may need to do in that relationship.

What is meant to be, will always be.

[Mr. Lucky]

I also respect her as an individual, employee and as a mother not to make her feel uncomfortable in anyway.

 

Well, at least we know she has a child. Does she have a husband or BF ?

 

Mr. Lucky

[whichwayisup]

For those who have asked I am not married but in a relationship. I am not looking for advice on my own relationship but I want to know how to deal with this and hear from people who have been down this road before.

 

Maybe she said no because of my relationship, maybe because of her job, maybe she plays hard to get, maybe she's a flirt, maybe she just isn't in to me or maybe it's all of them.

 

People meet people they are attracted at work all the time but for me this is a new experience, especially as I am the business owner.

 

The girl has arrived in my life and the doubts I had about my relationship previously have amplified.

 

You need to get this girl out of your heart and head. Stop investing, stop thinking, stop fantasizing, stop hoping and wishing... She isn't interested in you for whatever her reasons are, they are valid to her. Don't ask her out again, respect her decision.

 

End your relationship with your current girlfriend because it's obvious things there are over.

[Got it]

On the strictly work front, check your company's handbook. I would think it is safe to assume that their one policy on dating would be supervisor/subordinate. If you want to pursue things with her, transfer so you aren't her manager and then discuss dating with her. But until you do so you are ripe for a lot of concerns including termination. Trust me on this, companies term all the time for supervisors who cross lines with their subordinates.

 

In regards to her interest level, if she is interested she will let you know. If she isn't, and she hasn't given you any signs she is, let it go. We all develop crushes; developing and being able to date the person are two separate things.

[SSM3]

SSM3, I have never been in your situation but glad that you came on here to get insight from others who have. No one can tell you how YOU feel or if you're in love or not .Its not one's place to assume because only you know that. If you feel you're falling in love with her please tread lightly. Don't place yourself in a position where both your jobs will be in jeopardy. Sometimes we meet people that make us question our lives and relationships (that's life), we live and we learn. There is nothing wrong with questioning where you are with your partner. Just know that you can't cross the lines with this woman. If she's interested she will let you know but until than you have to fall back and enjoy the friendship. I know easier said than done but this is where you have to discipline yourself. Focus on your current partner and what you may need to do in that relationship.

What is meant to be, will always be.

 

Thank you for your kind words, this is certainly not easy. I have black eyes from some of the other comments

 

I am being professional about things and just letting our friendship blossom. She is quite new to our company so it's important you get to know your staff. I know the line can not be crossed and I know that I can not ask her out (on her own) again. If something happens I know (because I am her boss) that she will have drive things. She will know that I like her, but she might also think that I am a serial cheater which I am not. She won't know my true feelings, that I do know. I just expected that our relationship after asking her wouldn't develop and she would keep her distance but we are getting on better now than before. If ever I am busy with work (which means I am quiet in the office) she will always ask if I am ok, no-one else asks!

 

Do you think I should bring up my earlier proposition and let her know that I don't go around doing this? I want her (and other staff) to respect me.

 

I am 40 and this girl is 33, and single. She is an intelligent and attractive young woman. She has done something to my heart and mind which I can not explain. I feel alive again and I'm enjoying my work. We work in quite a stressful sector.

 

This website is the only place I can speak and share my thoughts. I have not even mentioned this to my best friend, so I have no one else to talk to.

 

This is the first time I have had these thoughts in the 13 years we have been together and it's very scary indeed. This is not a case of wanting to jump from one bed to another, far from it. I meet other women all day, some attractive, but none of them have done what this young woman has done. I want to get to know this young lady as I like her personality, she is a good sense of humour.

 

I can not get this girl out of my mind.

 

My partner and I have other issues with our relationship too and the fact that she can't give me what I want, a family. Having a family with my partner now is not going to happen, and I am going to miss out on so many things in life.

 

My partner is a good woman too and has a heart of gold. When we met it was love at first sight so I believe in this even if many of you don't. I don't want to hurt her but I am finding it difficult to show her any affection at the moment because of OW.

 

If this other woman was not in my life I am sure I would just be plodding on and struggling to cope with the facts above.

 

I never thought I would be in this position.

[SSM3]

On the strictly work front, check your company's handbook. I would think it is safe to assume that their one policy on dating would be supervisor/subordinate. If you want to pursue things with her, transfer so you aren't her manager and then discuss dating with her. But until you do so you are ripe for a lot of concerns including termination. Trust me on this, companies term all the time for supervisors who cross lines with their subordinates.

 

In regards to her interest level, if she is interested she will let you know. If she isn't, and she hasn't given you any signs she is, let it go. We all develop crushes; developing and being able to date the person are two separate things.

 

It's my company

[minimariah]

i'm confused - why don't you break up with your girlfriend?

i mean... let's ignore this new girl and focus just on YOUR relationship. you want a family and your GF doesn't (or can't) and it's something that is bothering you.

 

did you ever tell her that? does she know that you want a family, does she know that's something you struggle with? because that's a HUUUUUGE dealbreaker.

 

you're moving towards an A with this another girl without even thinking about dealing with your R first and that's something everybody on this thread kind of "gave you the black eye" for. you probably want to test the waters and keep your current partner as an option B in case the scenario with this new girl fails.

 

my advice - deal with your relationship, you're not 18 first. only THEN can you approach this other girl and tell her "i don't usually do this" - if you tell her that now, she probably won't even believe you. everybody says that, come on.

 

if you approach her and you're single? your chance are much higher because she will have a PROOF that you're not a serious cheater + that you're dealing with problems in a healthy way.

 

she probably does like you but you hitting on her while not being single probably also came as a huge turn off, it's basically an undeniable proof of your emotional immaturity and she probably said to herself - geez, he'll do that to me after awhile, too.

 

forget about your WORDS, focus on ACTIONS.

 

of course, this could also be you going through a midlife/fear of death crisis so you focused on a woman who CAN give you a family, is young + you like her. whatever it is, focus on you.

 

this entire time, you keep focusing on this girl while ignoring a giant elephant in the room. it's not attractive at all.

Edited April 11, 2015 by minimariah

[Mr. Lucky]

I just expected that our relationship after asking her wouldn't develop and she would keep her distance but we are getting on better now than before. If ever I am busy with work (which means I am quiet in the office) she will always ask if I am ok, no-one else asks!

 

Have you ever thought that her conduct might simply fall under the category of "pleasant interactions with the boss as one attempts to get ahead" in the career field? I think your issues with your GF are leading you to misinterpret this employee's actions (her words were pretty clear, right?). And those kinds of issues are the very reason a smart boss or business owner doesn't dip his pen in the company inkwell. Trust me, when I was young and dumb I crossed that line and it turned out poorly both for me and the young lady involved.

 

Turn your attention and emotional energy back home. Sounds like it's needed...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jessie1231]

For those who have asked I am not married but in a relationship. I am not looking for advice on my own relationship but I want to know how to deal with this and hear from people who have been down this road before.

 

Maybe she said no because of my relationship, maybe because of her job, maybe she plays hard to get, maybe she's a flirt, maybe she just isn't in to me or maybe it's all of them.

 

People meet people they are attracted at work all the time but for me this is a new experience, especially as I am the business owner.

 

The girl has arrived in my life and the doubts I had about my relationship previously have amplified.

 

The only reason to say yes to going out with someone already in a relationship is to be a side piece. Who wants that? Especially if it's a coworker you have to see every day. Leave her alone.

[CarrieT]

Okay, the girl is hit on by her boss (first and tantamount reason the decline). She may know you are in a relationship (second reason to decline).

 

If you are truly serious about her, you would have to help her find a new, better job to remove that obstacle. You will also need to end your current relationship.

 

If I were the girl and I was *possibly* interested, those would be the Must Do steps before I would consider dating you. Anything else would be earmarked with sordid, deceit and impropriety.

 

Get that? Right now, you are an attached guy hitting on an employee. She is new the company and for all she knows, you have a habit of doing this sort of thing. Not the stand-up, responsible, person with any sort of integrity.

 

If you want to be more to her and for her, you are going to have to earn it by doing the responsible thing.

Edited April 11, 2015 by CarrieT

[Furious]

I casually asked my subordinate out on a date, she politely said thanks but no, which was fine.

 

I knew the risks so had to play things extremely carefully and adopted the casual approach.

 

Since my proposition

 

I am beginning to know more about her, we talk more about general stuff (nothing personal)

 

My proposition

hasn't been brought up since, nor has it caused any discomfort.

 

The problem is that I am someone who doesn't like to give in on things but I know that if I ask her again I am on thin ice. ?

 

It's interesting that you've used the word "proposition" many times. And, your thread is titled my "subordinate" and I.

 

You also revealed in one of your posts you are not only her boss you own the company. You are setting yourself up for a work related sexual harassment lawsuit. Even worse, you own the company and what standard does this set for your employees and your company's reputation.

 

I feel sorry for this "subordinate" woman, she's there to work and support herself, and has politely declined your "proposition".

 

You're not single, and that is probably common knowledge at your office. Seriously, you wonder why she hasn't jumped at the chance of your "proposition". If anything you're being unprofessional and pretty creepy.

 

What's that saying....don't piss where you eat.

[Got it]

It's my company

 

Okay, but it doesn't protect you from a suit or an EEOC investigation. Even more so as you have the deep pockets.

 

Just be careful, okay? Even with the idea that she would "lead" you are in potential legal hot water with this due to the power distribution.

 

Our owners have been forbidden from dating anyone in our company. We had an issue with one due to a relationship/affair with a subordinate. Even though, in this case, she didn't report directly to him, because he was an owner, and had full power, we were in some very hot legal water. Luckily we came out of it in the best way possible (legally and financially) it could have easily been a six figure settlement. (And it being an affair wasn't the big(gest) element. It was the sheer fact he was using/abusing his power). While the relationship was consensual, legally it put him/company in a very bad spot.

[Got it]

Actually thinking about this I would advise you speak with your General Counsel, if you have one, or your outside legal counsel specifically an employment law attorney. Understand the potential ramifications and then proceed with that knowledge.

 

I am more than happy to recommend some national employment law firms if you want some names.

[elaine567]

The only reason to say yes to going out with someone already in a relationship is to be a side piece. Who wants that? Especially if it's a coworker you have to see every day. Leave her alone.

 

I would be offended if someone in a serious relationship asked me out. And worse still if it was my boss and the owner of the company, what a position to be put into. I would say no, but that puts me in a strange situation re my work and any future promotions I may want to go for, or does my refusal, mean no promotions...

Does he really think that I would want to be his mistress? is another question I would ask, does he think me that desperate?

This girl hardly knows you, being new to the company too, what made you think she would be pleased with you thinking you could make her your OW.

Awkward.

[darkmoon]

you only know each other at work, not at home or out and about, she is prolly channeling her work persona and as you are her boss, she is on best behaviour

 

you have no idea what she is like once she gets home from work

[Phoenician]

Dear SSM,

 

While everybody is talking in this thread about Legal , Financial , right and wrong ...

 

You just remind me in my Cheating attempt last year ;

 

Someone who suppressed himself for more than a decade ; then at forties became like a teen again , but with very big difference ; willing to even give a whole life for a passion ...

 

I have been through wars , witnessed very harsh moments at a certain time of my life ; suffered from a brain tumor ... but believe you : nothing is more painful than ...

 

Now after all what I have been through , being a father of 3 kids , I say the R is best for all ;because after all , you can not get everything in Life ; I got great kids ;stable income ... benefits ; I say to myself I should be greatful and live the life as logically it should proceed ...

 

I shutdown my craziness...

 

I was able to do so , because I ply with my child and go trips with my teens ; I enjoy every minute and second ...

 

but you said your partner can't give you a family ; which seem to be your dream .

 

I don't want to push you for a selfish act ;but this fact , and your passion for that single women , tells me one thing , your relation with your partner is already collapsed ...

 

carie T said soemthing very crazy , which if I were you , I would do !:

 

If you are serious about it :

 

-Finish your relation with your partner , because it seems it is already over , don't wait and torture the lady more with a bigger bomb in the future .

 

-Find a way to have venus moved to a different company ;or open a subsidary a small shop a small business and let her be her own boss.

 

ALL THIS SHOULD BE BEFORE YOU EVEN ASK HER FOR A DATE, OTHERWISE YOU WOULD BE A CHEATER , AND AN ABUSER ....

 

Thats my crazy opinion ... if you really love her do it!