Resentful about so many years of crappy sex

[SummerDreams]

I think I have probably been to passive in my posts. I do think that the choice to divorce made by the OP is a valid one.

 

And, if a woman or man has a long term partner or spouse who they KNOW higly values and has a need for sexual intimacy, and if this person unilaterally decides that sex should no longer be big deal and they are not going to indulge that need anymore....then yes, that person SHOULD fear being left. Because they have unilaterally deicded NOT to meet what they know to be a significant need of the person they profess to love. So if that person leaves the relationship due to intimacy starvation, then the withholding spouse really DOESN't have anyone to blame but themsleves.

 

I think that's a general fact. If repeatedly in a relationship, may it be personal or professional, with your spouse, your friend, your relative or your boss, you claim to have a specific need (that is reasonable of course) and the other person doesn't care about it and does nothing to try and fulfill it, then you are by all means entitled to leave this relationship. Nobody in this thread denied that the OP has the right to leave, if that's what he needs to do. And I think the point we disagree on is the different point of view everyone has at what considers important / necessary or shallow / stupid. We onviously cannot convince each other so lets just let everyone decide what they want to do and work it out with their partner.

[Doublegold]

Something doesn't have to last forever to be considered a success. They have grown children who will soon be enjoying their own lives separate from the nuclear family.

 

What OP wants is not the same as his wife. He wants intimacy, she wants a beach apt. What gives her pleasure, is opposite of the pleasure he seeks. Why are his needs to be secondary to hers? Isn't intimacy more important than things?

 

After 27 years I moved on from an unfulling marriage. It was not easy. But after watching both my parents pass and caring for others my entire adult life, I came to the realization that life is too short to be so empty of love and passion.

 

Today we have a great relationship, our adult children are living happy fulfilling lives, and we see one another often at family celebrations. I was named as a survior in my MIL's obit recently--why--because adults can act like adults, and there are different kinds of love.

 

My life is my life now. My choices are mine. Some may not be what others like, but in the end, no regrets.

[dreamingoftigers]

Regardless of my points of view, we have not gotten a reply yet regarding the reason his wife started to deny sex as the years were passing. This is the key to "judging" whether someone "should" (I use quotes cause we can't judge or decide for someone rather than them decide for themselves but just to answer to autumnnight) stay or leave a sexless marriage. This point has not yet become clear. I'm wondering, why hasn't this man made it really clear to his wife that the lack of sex will lead to a divorce? Why haven't they visited a counselor? Why should this incident be sudden for the wife? And why hasn't the wife tried to understand the depth of the problem? The problem in my opinion is deeper than just the lack of sex. I see a problem of communicating feelings and emotions, and that's what I find way more important than sexual life in a marriage. I mean, I can't even imagine I live a life without communication and exchange of feelings. This is what I consider to be the most important thing and surely sex life comes way after these issues (if existant) are resolved. One thing's for sure, if my husband ever communicated to me an issue he has about our sex life, I'd be open to discuss it and I'd do my best to solve it. I'd certainly not disregard it not with the fear of him leaving but cause I love him and I consider it my greatest obligation and desire, if you will, to keep him happy. That's why I find it hard to believe that a woman could so easily be indifferent for her husband's issue of lack of sex and I want to examine first if there is a "hidden agenda" that is not being revealed to us.

 

Frankly, if the sex life isn't happening, it just makes any other issues turn into a gigantic festering blister.

 

You are basically saying "he should be communicating that he needs food and oxygen, if he's flopping around on the floor gasping for air, he really should be phrasing the request to have air in proper form, you can't just expect his wife to understand that he needs to breathe."

[dreamingoftigers]

If I wanted no sex? Yeah,in a great marriage. Then again, I may have joined a monastery Instead.

 

Exactly. I can find a roommate anywhere. I wanted a spouse. And that means sex. I think it is time for us to stop feeling shamed for being normal.

 

I can't believe the attitudes of our spouses.

 

Like, "oh really, you wanted that? Well, I'm watching TV right now. I'll come and have duty sex later. Can you do the dishes while you are at it? I need a parent not a spouse."

[dreamingoftigers]

I can't believe the attitudes of our spouses.

 

Like, "oh really, you wanted that? Well, I'm watching TV right now. I'll come and have duty sex later. Can you do the dishes while you are at it? I need a parent not a spouse."

 

My husband actually had the nerve to say, "I thought that you were really strong that way."

 

Like, what, I lift Chastity Weights so you can go watch porn with wild abandon? Seriously?

 

I can go three months now without annoyance, and if I get back to more heavy lifting, one day I will be at four?

[autumnnight]

My husband told me :I just don't think about that stuff. It just isn't a big deal to me. But if you get in a place where you really need it then all you need to do is ask and I can try to take care of it." Like letting him know when the garbage can is too full or my tires are bald.I probably spent a thousand dollars on lingerie over the years trying to catch his eye. One anniversary I wore this pretty satiny set, made him his favorite dinner, sang to him, and then got on my knees in front of him and washed his feet and gave him a pedicaure (it's a long story). By the time I had washed the bowls afterward, he was alseep on the couch. I went to bed, and he found me there crying an hour or so later. He was completely baffled that I was upset. :I didn't know you expaected THAT.: It was our damn anniversary and since when do I cook in a pinoit set???

 

OK, it is time for me to take time out from this thread. I have no patience or sympathy for people who cannot grasp the importance of the ONE act you cannot do with anyone else when you're married.

[oldshirt]

I just find it very shallow that the only thing that makes a man happy is sex.

 

 

 

You are misunderstanding completely.

 

 

Sex is not the only thing that makes men happy. millions of things make men happy.

 

 

It's just that a marriage is not complete and the person who is supposed to be your special someone is not special if the sexual component of the marriage is not there.

 

 

Sexuality is a key component, without which, things are not complete. If the sexuality is missing, a guy has a hole in his life.

[oldshirt]

I think I have probably been to passive in my posts. I do think that the choice to divorce made by the OP is a valid one.

 

And, if a woman or man has a long term partner or spouse who they KNOW higly values and has a need for sexual intimacy, and if this person unilaterally decides that sex should no longer be big deal and they are not going to indulge that need anymore....then yes, that person SHOULD fear being left. Because they have unilaterally deicded NOT to meet what they know to be a significant need of the person they profess to love. So if that person leaves the relationship due to intimacy starvation, then the withholding spouse really DOESN't have anyone to blame but themsleves.

 

 

 

Very well put.

[oldshirt]

I think what Summer Dreams is trying to say here is that she was unaware that men don't love in the same way that women love.

 

She thought that her man loved her because of her mind, because of her sense of humour, because of the way she cares for him, because of the way she looks, because he gets a warm fuzzy feeling inside and because of that cute little dimple when she similes, etc...

She is not withholding sex, nor is she being manipulative, but to her sex was something natural and just happened when they felt like it, when they both felt the urge, a bit like sharing a bottle of wine together or going out for a meal; something intimate that showed their love for each other and an enjoyable way of spending time together.

Like going out or that bottle of wine, she thought, take it or leave it. Yes, sex is a couple bonding experience but if life temporarily gets in the way, then so be it. Love is what really holds everything together.

 

BUT enter oldshirt with his "oil" and that cosy scenario is blown apart.

Sex is really what holds her bf to her. If he doesn't get sex, then she might as well, according to oldshirt, be the cleaning lady or some unknown woman on the street.

So all that concept of his "love" for her, and her alone, is now in smithereens. He doesn't "love" her in the way she thought, he doesn't love her for being her anymore. She now sees he just needs sex and instead of natural, go with the flow sex, she now feels she is going to be pressurised into "regular as clockwork" sex, for fear that everything is going to fall apart and he is likely to abandon her, due to lack of connection...

 

That is, I think what she finds depressing.

 

However...

How Oxytocin Helps Men Stay Monogamous | TIME.com

 

There is one part to that I want to clarify.

 

 

Men too value the "natural, go with the flow" and all the warm fuzy feelings and cute dimples and warm smiles etc etc. However Men need the sexual component to be in place in the relationship in order for the "natural, go with the flow.." et al to occur.

 

 

If the sexual component isn't there, then yes, unfortunately all the dimples and warm smiles and walks on the beach and all of that will eventually crumble.

 

 

In some cases of extreme sexlessness, a wife becomes even worse than a cleaning lady or a stranger on the street. If a wife completely denies sexuality and yet does not allow the guy to spank or get into porn or to have an open marriage and get it elsewhere, then she is even worse than the cleaning lady because she is actually standing between him and a sexlife. She is actually impeding and blocking his sexuality.

 

 

The cleaning lady and stranger on the street don't stop men from pursuing and enjoying a sexlife. A sexless wife who doesn't allow him any sexual expression does.

 

 

If a woman doesn't want to have sex with her husband, that is her right and her prerogative and she shouldn't have to.

 

 

She just has no right to bitch when he tells her to get out of his way and he leaves her behind.

[autumnnight]

There will always be frigid spouses with a holier than thou attitude about sex. And I freely confess I do not feel sorry for them when their starving spouses leave.

[dreamingoftigers]

There will always be frigid spouses with a holier than thou attitude about sex. And I freely confess I do not feel sorry for them when their starving spouses leave.

 

It's kind of like the White "Christian" Missionaries that stepped into Third World Countries to "Save the Heathens" and then looted them when they left.

 

Completely ass-backwards and hypocritical.

 

Although I will say with OP, he is getting it 2-3 times a month.

 

Sadly, that seems like the Holy Grail to me.

[elaine567]

Why do some women have a holier than thou attitude to sex?

[autumnnight]

Why do some women have a holier than thou attitude to sex?

 

1. Defensiveness about their right to refuse

2. Incorrect view of sex as a duty for the sole purpose of procreation

3. Cover for their own selfishness

4. Complete lack of understanding of normal men

5. Power trip

6. Assumptionthat anything they don't enjoy is oppresive

7. Insulting assumption that women who DO enjoy things just don't realize how oppressed they are

8. Stubbornness

9. Cold frigidity

10. Think their view is the only right one

[dreamingoftigers]

1. Defensiveness about their right to refuse

2. Incorrect view of sex as a duty for the sole purpose of procreation

3. Cover for their own selfishness

4. Complete lack of understanding of normal men

5. Power trip

6. Assumptionthat anything they don't enjoy is oppresive

7. Insulting assumption that women who DO enjoy things just don't realize how oppressed they are

8. Stubbornness

9. Cold frigidity

10. Think their view is the only right one

 

11. A want to control the relationships by withholding sex and then shaming the partner.

12. Not viewing their partner as an equal, and then feeling like they are missing something because they "could've done better" and thus resenting them.

13. I think resentment is the biggest one, and then using the holier-than-thou attitude to justify the resentment instead of working on the issues.

14. Covering for sexual insecurity with self-righteousness

15. They just don't give a f*ck, literally and figuratively.

[dreamingoftigers]

11. A want to control the relationships by withholding sex and then shaming the partner.

12. Not viewing their partner as an equal, and then feeling like they are missing something because they "could've done better" and thus resenting them.

13. I think resentment is the biggest one, and then using the holier-than-thou attitude to justify the resentment instead of working on the issues.

14. Covering for sexual insecurity with self-righteousness

15. They just don't give a f*ck, literally and figuratively.

 

16. Viewing their partner as a servant/role to fill while not feeling they have to put something in to maintain the bond between them.

[SummerDreams]

What I do believe is that when the sex a woman has with her husband is really great then there is a slim to no chance she will ever purposely withhold it. That's why every time I hear about a man complaining for his wife withholding sex the fitst thing I want to know is whether this man really satisfirs his wife sexually every time or whether he is open to new things that will keep their sex life exciting and not boring after a while.

[GetSmarter]

What I do believe is that when the sex a woman has with her husband is really great then there is a slim to no chance she will ever purposely withhold it. That's why every time I hear about a man complaining for his wife withholding sex the fitst thing I want to know is whether this man really satisfirs his wife sexually every time or whether he is open to new things that will keep their sex life exciting and not boring after a while.

 

Interesting. So according to you, the common thread running through the hundreds of threads from men complaining about the lack of sex is that they're lousy in bed? And you even suggest that wives are yearning for new adventures in bed, but that their husbands much prefer traditional missionary? If that's so, then why don't we see an equal number of posts from women complaining about this?

[autumnnight]

GS, I am certain that is NOT your problem, though we have never met. I know because it is statistically impossible for every person who is starving for sex to be bad in bed. I know because though I am not a person with a big ego, I KNOW I am good in bed. Trust me, I know.

 

I have been on site specifically concerning sexual problems and sex in marriage. It becaome extremrely easy to discern what is honest questioning and what is borne of a refuser's defensiveness.

 

And anyway, if communication is the key, then your wife should have TOLD you what was wrong and what she needed.

 

Nope. Your wife chose, for whatever reason, to withhold the one intimacy that you cannot get from anyone but her. And to your crdit, you remained faithful in spite of HER faithlessness.

 

It is time for you to begin to live.

[dichotomy]

It's kind of like the White "Christian" Missionaries that stepped into Third World Countries to "Save the Heathens" and then looted them when they left.

 

Completely ass-backwards and hypocritical.

 

Although I will say with OP, he is getting it 2-3 times a month.

 

Sadly, that seems like the Holy Grail to me.

 

 

Yes -I try to keep perspective. I am averaging about twice a month. There are folks here who post about years without.

[dreamingoftigers]

Interesting. So according to you, the common thread running through the hundreds of threads from men complaining about the lack of sex is that they're lousy in bed? And you even suggest that wives are yearning for new adventures in bed, but that their husbands much prefer traditional missionary? If that's so, then why don't we see an equal number of posts from women complaining about this?

 

Honestly I wonder about this too.

 

I have felt as I have gotten older that my husband just got lazier and lazier about our bedroom. I brought it up. He would do the exact same thing but maybe for a minute longer.

 

He had no interest in deviating from his own well-laid path and really no interest whatsoever in increasing the frequency.

 

He really just didn't seem to care whether I was having fun in the relationship, and sometimes sex was great, but he wasn't very affectionate afterward. There was kissing in the beginning as foreplay, then that was kind of it. Nothing post-orgasm aside form throwing the kleenex down to one another. It didn't feel like bonding.

 

It started taking me longer and longer to even warm up to him. Even when I initiated (90% of the time I might add).

 

I often think that the men that seem the most frustrated by a lack of sex (I would say 50% of them) are often the ones that are really negative and often won't accept any input from other posters.

 

I even have a kink. He NEVER tried it. NEVER. Wasn't even interested in learning about what I was into. Not at all. Not even as an intellectual exercise.

 

It was basically like saying, "Here's the ultimate thing for me and the ultimate way I will feel connected to you." And he ridiculously rejected all of it.

 

He even laughed in my face about it once.

 

He was more focused on getting me to take care of household responsibilities, which I kicked off. He was absolutely no better. He didn't even regularly put his garbage in the can. I felt like he just wanted me to be his mother. In fact, I feel like after 10 years together, he didn't really even want to get to intimately know me. He wanted me to accept him, and accept his cheating, lying, drinking, extreme lack of responsibility, lack of emotional support and lack of cleanliness. But feel that just his very presence was a great gift to me. He rarely even took me on dates. It just wasn't anywhere near the priority list. If he had even been consistent with fixing just about any part of our relationship for more then a few weeks before taking off and saying "Eff it" something would have changed greatly.

 

Overall, he just wanted whatever benefits he wanted from the relationship with the smallest investment. Then he just wanted to kick the relationship aside when it got "inconvenient." Which after discovering his cheating, it got very inconvenient. I became quite inconvenient to have around. I still am. I haven't even heard from him in three days. It just sounds like "bitching" to him and he doesn't get at all why I am making "so much noise."

 

Gee. I just really started feeling very very triggered about this thread.

I don't think it can be helped. Feeling this level of rejection just gets too much.

I don't even know if I could handle having another intimate sexual partner after the way I was treated.

 

Time for some time away from loveshack for a bit.

[elaine567]

If that's so, then why don't we see an equal number of posts from women complaining about this?

 

I think women do not tend to complain because "men always want sex" is what is seen as the norm, and when a man doesn't want sex then it must be something wrong with the woman. I think women then blame themselves, think they are not attractive enough, think they are not sexy enough and that is difficult to say and speak about. There is also an implication that she was frigid or wasn't giving him what he wanted otherwise why wouldn't a man not want sex?

 

Whereas men not getting sex just blame the female and then everyone understands and nods sagely or goes on the offensive, the b*tch.

 

In my own case, bait and switch, sex OK for a while, then it became apparent, he just didn't want sex, he wasn't interested.

I was used to great and varied frequent sex from other partners, (they may have had other issues but the sex was good), so from that to infrequent or no sex was a big shocker to me and I felt totally rejected and dejected too. It certainly was a big hit to my self confidence, as he would mostly reject my advances; subtle and not so subtle.

[dreamingoftigers]

Interesting. So according to you, the common thread running through the hundreds of threads from men complaining about the lack of sex is that they're lousy in bed? And you even suggest that wives are yearning for new adventures in bed, but that their husbands much prefer traditional missionary? If that's so, then why don't we see an equal number of posts from women complaining about this?

 

I think it is something we really just DO NOT talk about.

 

We are so socialized into thinking if we don't enjoy it that we must have "low-libido" or it's a woman's thing.

 

Plus our bodies are a little different. Not quite as easy to "warm up."

 

So it is entirely possible that if we haven't been "warmed up" properly, we might not even know how awesome it could be.

[autumnnight]

Honestly I wonder about this too.

 

I have felt as I have gotten older that my husband just got lazier and lazier about our bedroom. I brought it up. He would do the exact same thing but maybe for a minute longer.

 

He had no interest in deviating from his own well-laid path and really no interest whatsoever in increasing the frequency.

 

He really just didn't seem to care whether I was having fun in the relationship, and sometimes sex was great, but he wasn't very affectionate afterward. There was kissing in the beginning as foreplay, then that was kind of it. Nothing post-orgasm aside form throwing the kleenex down to one another. It didn't feel like bonding.

 

It started taking me longer and longer to even warm up to him. Even when I initiated (90% of the time I might add).

 

I often think that the men that seem the most frustrated by a lack of sex (I would say 50% of them) are often the ones that are really negative and often won't accept any input from other posters.

 

I even have a kink. He NEVER tried it. NEVER. Wasn't even interested in learning about what I was into. Not at all. Not even as an intellectual exercise.

 

It was basically like saying, "Here's the ultimate thing for me and the ultimate way I will feel connected to you." And he ridiculously rejected all of it.

 

He even laughed in my face about it once.

 

He was more focused on getting me to take care of household responsibilities, which I kicked off. He was absolutely no better. He didn't even regularly put his garbage in the can. I felt like he just wanted me to be his mother. In fact, I feel like after 10 years together, he didn't really even want to get to intimately know me. He wanted me to accept him, and accept his cheating, lying, drinking, extreme lack of responsibility, lack of emotional support and lack of cleanliness. But feel that just his very presence was a great gift to me. He rarely even took me on dates. It just wasn't anywhere near the priority list. If he had even been consistent with fixing just about any part of our relationship for more then a few weeks before taking off and saying "Eff it" something would have changed greatly.

 

Overall, he just wanted whatever benefits he wanted from the relationship with the smallest investment. Then he just wanted to kick the relationship aside when it got "inconvenient." Which after discovering his cheating, it got very inconvenient. I became quite inconvenient to have around. I still am. I haven't even heard from him in three days. It just sounds like "bitching" to him and he doesn't get at all why I am making "so much noise."

 

Gee. I just really started feeling very very triggered about this thread.

I don't think it can be helped. Feeling this level of rejection just gets too much.

I don't even know if I could handle having another intimate sexual partner after the way I was treated.

 

Time for some time away from loveshack for a bit.

 

How is it that we were married to the same man......

[dreamingoftigers]

How is it that we were married to the same man......

 

Funny you should say that.

 

Bigamy happened in his family.

 

His grandmother (who raised him) went to divorce her husband (his grandfather) and it turned out that they were never legally married (22 years) because he had already been married and had a whole other family in Idaho.

 

Maybe we're wife-in-laws and don't know it.

[dreamingoftigers]

How is it that we were married to the same man......

 

Did he even notice when you left?

 

I don't think mine will, but he will feel sorry for himself and then feel "vindicated" and "freed" from this whole "have-a-wife" thing that he initially chased so hard for.

 

And he'll be a real passive-aggressive PITA about our daughter. But that's about it. I also think he'll rub any new relationship he has right in my face.

 

My daughter wants to pick some faces at the side of the board, so they may not makes sense, but here goes::)