A Feeling Of Guilt - Why I Don't Know

[Selfish]

You are so right...as I have stated and read...The ghost of the OM never leaves most Bhs...

 

If your WW does EVERYTHING in her power to help one heal and follows the WS script PERFECT....She can NEVER EVER unfu%k the OM EVER..

 

and that is most BHs undoing...once found..There is NO going back ...

 

It is also many BWs undoing

[badkarma2013]

What christian faith are you apart of? Because I a pretty sure infidelity in most christian based ones is the acceptable answer to cheating (jesus' words and all)

 

I also think you can forgive someone but not reconcile. Not want her to go to hell, form a good co-parenting relationship, ect.

 

If your church condemns divorce no matter the circumstance then I think it might be time to find a new one or quit going. You can have a faith in God without a man established organization.

 

Outstanding post...Cannot believe i agree with you....

[badkarma2013]

It is also many BWs undoing

 

I agree ....I was only speaking as a BH... It is a great deal of the time a soul crushing blow to any BS....Husband or Wife..

[jm2013]

What christian faith are you apart of? Because I a pretty sure infidelity in most christian based ones is the acceptable answer to cheating (jesus' words and all)

 

I also think you can forgive someone but not reconcile. Not want her to go to hell, form a good co-parenting relationship, ect.

 

If your church condemns divorce no matter the circumstance then I think it might be time to find a new one or quit going. You can have a faith in God without a man established organization.

 

What do you mean by that? Do you mean infidelity in the Bible says you may divorce? I didn't really mean my church condemning me. I mean the perception of it. I'm not going to go around our church and spill the beans to our new friends. Those are just things I thought about. I guess I don't really care as long as I find my own happiness. I just keep hitting the infidelity wall.

[Clay]

1. Broke NC multiple times and lied to me
   
2. Lied about love, sex and the affair (which I'm sure she continues to do)
   
3. Initially almost blamed me for her to be vulnerable and engage an affair
   
4. Chose her whacky family over trying to comfort me in the beginning
   
5. Decided to give me the "real" number of times they had sex only last summer
   
6. Lied about why she unblocked him from Facebook last December
   

 

What has been your consequence for each of these things she has done. If it has been nothing more than you getting upset then your wasting your time. If you do not hold her accountable for her actions then you are only fooling yourself. I would go down and draw up divorce papers sighting you as the custodial parent and I would bring them home. I would put it clearly into perspective for her. If you really want to make this marriage work then put your money where your mouth is. Sign this now and as long as we don't ever have another issue they wont be filed. If you fail they will be filed. I would make her take a poly right after that as well.

 

Clay

[Selfish]

What do you mean by that? Do you mean infidelity in the Bible says you may divorce? I didn't really mean my church condemning me. I mean the perception of it. I'm not going to go around our church and spill the beans to our new friends. Those are just things I thought about. I guess I don't really care as long as I find my own happiness. I just keep hitting the infidelity wall.

 

Matthew 19:9

New Living Translation

And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery--unless his wife has been unfaithful."

 

Onviously if you can divorce and remarry and it is okay because of infidelity than the divorce is okay in the first place. I'm not into religeon. I have studied a lot but it has been a while. I was under the belief that most main stream christianity groups support divorce for unfaithfulness.

[Selfish]

What has been your consequence for each of these things she has done. If it has been nothing more than you getting upset then your wasting your time. If you do not hold her accountable for her actions then you are only fooling yourself. I would go down and draw up divorce papers sighting you as the custodial parent and I would bring them home. I would put it clearly into perspective for her. If you really want to make this marriage work then put your money where your mouth is. Sign this now and as long as we don't ever have another issue they wont be filed. If you fail they will be filed. I would make her take a poly right after that as well.

 

Clay

 

Punishment and labeling them consequences won't make his marriage happen. Besidss the unblocking last year all those things he said happened in the beginning and stopped (though he doesnmt fully believe it). Obviously he must have drawn a line and she chose to step up. Or she just did it on her own. Punishing her now isn't going to change anything.

 

I know that I would not give up my children to save my marriage. I do not believe infidelity in unto itself means someone is an unfit mother. I sould seriously question her values if she agreed to gamble on their marriage working with her children/child.

[drifter777]

This had nothing to do with my post.

 

Great - because I didn't respond to any post of yours.

 

And if you weren't wallowing in your own self pity you'd see that.

 

I think perhaps you like to have an excuse for being miserable. And like to blame your wife and her infidelity until the end of time (so yeah even the real defintion of forgiveness is not present in your life). Or blame past drifter for not divorcing. Or whatever. Just continue being the victim of your own life. And that is your choice. But honestly looking at yourself and who you are today? That'd probably make your now life and future life a lot happier.

 

Buut I doubt you'd ever do that. You want to be miserable and right. Or at least your posts scream that. Be the victim and go on about nightmares of a day that happened over ten years ago and claim pstd (which by the way is totally over diagnosed. Pts, yeah that happens. Ptsd. Only a trained doctor can give that diagnosis and even then it is believed many hand it out to freely. Lots of papers on that one)

 

Jm take note, staying but not forgiving or loving your spouse could turn you into a drifter of the world. Do you want to be him in ten years?

Your continued unprovoked attacks on me are getting tiresome. Please leave me alone.

[merrmeade]

Perfect. Absolutely perfect discussion for several of us in this cesspool stage of reconciliation (perhaps, the sh-t buffet sewer line?). So many points that I relate to but have only time to highlight a couple of salient ones.

 

First, jm2013, I totally get it, and you really can't convince the ones who haven't been there what it's like. There's the trauma immediately post D-day and then, whether you call it PTSD or something else, the brooding ups and downs—anger one day, hopeless despair the next, apathy and cynicism the next, etc.—reminders, intrusive thoughts, etc. that settle in over time. But one thing, I will say is that when I post every once in a while on LS with a specific issue and stick with it a few days or weeks, the responses to different aspects of the problem have been SO helpful and clarifying in a different way from seeing a therapist. I hear feelings of mine articulated in ways that I hadn't yet grasped and felt justified and empowered to stand my ground on a particular issue. Of course, my situation with extended family involvement is too crazy and unique for everyone to relate to, but I'm sure the principle holds true about the group therapy for lack of a better word. So maybe you don't need me to tell you this.

 

Then, second, the back-and-forth about BS suffering. I'm sure one post tried to dismiss my quote elsewhere from a therapist that the grief and trauma from infidelity is 2nd only to the loss of a child, and I think BH answered her well that WS pain from shame is NOT equal. Then, Without naming names, it's pretty clear that the ones who have been there/done that talk feelings, reactions, wounds, emotions—all stuff going on inside them that they literally have no control over—that group knows, and advises from that place of knowing, that those of us in jm2013's shoes can't do anything about the violent indigestion we get from eating crap on a daily basis or from the permanent damage done by the original sh-t sandwich that poisoned our guts. Nothing. Can't decide, choose, judge it away no matter how much we want to.

 

Then, the ones who SAY they can empathize just like the next person but who

are looking at the first group from the outside. This group judges, blames, holds accountable the victim for being a victim and for the reconciliation. That group thinks there's a choice, an opinion a decision derived from careful deliberation and that the BS is managing and controlling the outcome, probably just to torture the already defeated WS some more. For example:

• Pain is pain and while infidility is terrible staying in victim mode after years have passed does not help anyone.
  
• r is failing because of him
  
• he is not a man who can forgive
  
• His unhappiness and her bending over backwards to right her wrongs create an atmosphere no kids should be forced to live in.
  
• She is going to cry. She is going to be hurt. Your kids are going to be hurt. Your lives will change forever. Is that the guilt you are feeling? Guilty because you can't make it work? Guilty because you can't get past her infidelity?
  

 

These people think "Some people can actually understand and put themselves in other people's shoes," and that, of course, they are such people. They think that they know because they have empathy and, therefore, they can judge (and, perhaps, absolve themselves?).

 

But, Selfish, I truly thank you for articulating your position so comprehensively as you have helped me tremendously in letting go my own hope that my SIL (OW) will ever "get it." I see now that she will not because like you, lovely christian lady, she will always need to judge me in this way to pardon her own actions. You are helping me accept that I cannot change this manner of thinking because she needs it to convince others she's the real victim (and more spiritual). She can't change. For you, Rainbowlove, my SIL and others who really have NOT had your faces blown off by the blast of infidelity, it's the fault of the one who can't forgive that everybody isn't allowed to just get along, live and let live, let bygones be bygones, in other words, reconcile. In a couple of months, she will have further proof for my nephews and extended family that I am such a person. By then, I will have declined the invitation to come with my H, my children and their families to join her and my nephews for the internment of my brother's ashes at the family 'cabin,' the place where we interred my parents' ashes together (and where she and my husband got naked and climaxed together on several occasions while her husband lay paralyzed a few miles away). She will don her long-suffering face and convince her audience that, as her whole life has dictated she should be, she is again the true victim. There will be sighs, rolling eyes, tongue clicks and frowns, conveying recrimination, disgust and pity for my hopeless lack of charity, my inability to forgive and rise above selfish pride, my general heartlessness. She must convince herself and them that I am the true loser, and she is very good at manipulation.

 

I am very unpracticed at convincing anyone of anything or any kind of persuasion, rhetorical argument or other manipulation. My family knows this and will stick by me. I'm pretty good with words, however, so I'm thinking maybe I'll borrow some of this to help my kids with what's going on. And THAT just might help my husband, since he's got the same general tendency to feel sorry for himself, justify his actions and blame someone else when things start poking out from under that damned rug he just swept them under!

[Selfish]

Perfect. Absolutely perfect discussion for several of us in this cesspool stage of reconciliation (perhaps, the sh-t buffet sewer line?). So many points that I relate to but have only time to highlight a couple of salient ones.

 

First, jm2013, I totally get it, and you really can't convince the ones who haven't been there what it's like. There's the trauma immediately post D-day and then, whether you call it PTSD or something else, the brooding ups and downs—anger one day, hopeless despair the next, apathy and cynicism the next, etc.—reminders, intrusive thoughts, etc. that settle in over time. But one thing, I will say is that when I post every once in a while on LS with a specific issue and stick with it a few days or weeks, the responses to different aspects of the problem have been SO helpful and clarifying in a different way from seeing a therapist. I hear feelings of mine articulated in ways that I hadn't yet grasped and felt justified and empowered to stand my ground on a particular issue. Of course, my situation with extended family involvement is too crazy and unique for everyone to relate to, but I'm sure the principle holds true about the group therapy for lack of a better word. So maybe you don't need me to tell you this.

 

Then, second, the back-and-forth about BS suffering. I'm sure one post tried to dismiss my quote elsewhere from a therapist that the grief and trauma from infidelity is 2nd only to the loss of a child, and I think BH answered her well that WS pain from shame is NOT equal. Then, Without naming names, it's pretty clear that the ones who have been there/done that talk feelings, reactions, wounds, emotions—all stuff going on inside them that they literally have no control over—that group knows, and advises from that place of knowing, that those of us in jm2013's shoes can't do anything about the violent indigestion we get from eating crap on a daily basis or from the permanent damage done by the original sh-t sandwich that poisoned our guts. Nothing. Can't decide, choose, judge it away no matter how much we want to.

 

Then, the ones who SAY they can empathize just like the next person but who

are looking at the first group from the outside. This group judges, blames, holds accountable the victim for being a victim and for the reconciliation. That group thinks there's a choice, an opinion a decision derived from careful deliberation and that the BS is managing and controlling the outcome, probably just to torture the already defeated WS some more. For example:

• Pain is pain and while infidility is terrible staying in victim mode after years have passed does not help anyone.
  
• r is failing because of him
  
• he is not a man who can forgive
  
• His unhappiness and her bending over backwards to right her wrongs create an atmosphere no kids should be forced to live in.
  
• She is going to cry. She is going to be hurt. Your kids are going to be hurt. Your lives will change forever. Is that the guilt you are feeling? Guilty because you can't make it work? Guilty because you can't get past her infidelity?
  

 

These people think "Some people can actually understand and put themselves in other people's shoes," and that, of course, they are such people. They think that they know because they have empathy and, therefore, they can judge (and, perhaps, absolve themselves?).

 

But, Selfish, I truly thank you for articulating your position so comprehensively as you have helped me tremendously in letting go my own hope that my SIL (OW) will ever "get it." I see now that she will not because like you, lovely christian lady, she will always need to judge me in this way to pardon her own actions. You are helping me accept that I cannot change this manner of thinking because she needs it to convince others she's the real victim (and more spiritual). She can't change. For you, Rainbowlove, my SIL and others who really have NOT had your faces blown off by the blast of infidelity, it's the fault of the one who can't forgive that everybody isn't allowed to just get along, live and let live, let bygones be bygones, in other words, reconcile. In a couple of months, she will have further proof for my nephews and extended family that I am such a person. By then, I will have declined the invitation to come with my H, my children and their families to join her and my nephews for the internment of my brother's ashes at the family 'cabin,' the place where we interred my parents' ashes together (and where she and my husband got naked and climaxed together on several occasions while her husband lay paralyzed a few miles away). She will don her long-suffering face and convince her audience that, as her whole life has dictated she should be, she is again the true victim. There will be sighs, rolling eyes, tongue clicks and frowns, conveying recrimination, disgust and pity for my hopeless lack of charity, my inability to forgive and rise above selfish pride, my general heartlessness. She must convince herself and them that I am the true loser, and she is very good at manipulation.

 

I am very unpracticed at convincing anyone of anything or any kind of persuasion, rhetorical argument or other manipulation. My family knows this and will stick by me. I'm pretty good with words, however, so I'm thinking maybe I'll borrow some of this to help my kids with what's going on. And THAT just might help my husband, since he's got the same general tendency to feel sorry for himself, justify his actions and blame someone else when things start poking out from under that damned rug he just swept them under!

 

Oh so much self justifcation and twisting of words. I'm not even going to bother with your drival. Want to stay inactive and the victim. Go ahead.

 

Just because on person said something and claimed something doesn't make it true. Would you really tell someone who had the crap beat out of then by their spouse "at least he didn't cheat on you. That pain is worse"

 

Well I hope you wouldn't. Op feels pain. And the pain he feels is the pain that matters. But all the talk about justifying feeling that pain by comparing it to other pain is just pointless words.

 

I think i've made myself. Maybe it is time for you to get off your own judgemental high horse and actually take responsibility for who you are?

[Rainbowlove]

For you, Rainbowlove, my SIL and others who really have NOT had your faces blown off by the blast of infidelity, it's the fault of the one who can't forgive that everybody isn't allowed to just get along, live and let live, let bygones be bygones, in other words, reconcile. In a couple of months, she will have further proof for my nephews and extended family that I am such a person. By then, I will have declined the invitation to come with my H, my children and their families to join her and my nephews for the internment of my brother's ashes at the family 'cabin,' the place where we interred my parents' ashes together (and where she and my husband got naked and climaxed together on several occasions while her husband lay paralyzed a few miles away). She will don her long-suffering face and convince her audience that, as her whole life has dictated she should be, she is again the true victim. There will be sighs, rolling eyes, tongue clicks and frowns, conveying recrimination, disgust and pity for my hopeless lack of charity, my inability to forgive and rise above selfish pride, my general heartlessness. She must convince herself and them that I am the true loser, and she is very good at manipulation.

 

Not sure how I offended you. I'm actually trying to support the OP.

[Selfish]

Not sure how I offended you. I'm actually trying to support the OP.

 

Read this person's post. It is another one of those posters who will take what you say the wrong way and read into it because you have cheated. They sill ignore anything you say that makes sense and ignore it and latch onto what they don't say. They divide people.

[sandylee1]

Selfish, I felt that this ^^^ post minimizes the pain that a BS endures. There ARE some offenses that are worse than others. Infidelity IS worse than a lot of other offenses in a marriage. You've been given two explanations (#1 because the lies and betrayal undermine the foundation and #2 that it can be traumatic). Pain is not pain. Some pain is worse. I went thru 7 years of a sexless marriage before discovering my wife's affair. Infidelity and denial of affection can both be considered dealbreakers. I suffered pain from both. Discovering the infidelity was far, far worse. I have no reason to lie about this. Maybe it's different for other people (yay for them) but I had invested 20 years of my life in that marriage. Every decision was with the best interests of my wife and children in mind. Shame on me perhaps but frankly, I didn't have any other priorities. My marriage and kids were the priority. And that was all nuked in a day and I couldn't do anything about it. Worse yet, it wasn't perpetrated by one of my enemies but by my partner. And the lives of MY KIDS hung in the balance. I should have been allowed to just leave (no brainer, right?) but I couldn't because I had to salvage whatever I could for them; they were innocent in all of this. Being torn in two different directions, having no playbook, having my wife and kids and life hanging in the balance, and having no real idea about what is actually true or a lie during a "reconciliation" - it was TRAUMATIC. And yes, it was "worse" than anything else I had ever been through. It still takes the cake.

 

As for my sh*t sandwich analogy, you can be dismissive and call it sensational if you like but there's nothing decidedly harsh about it. Frankly, I am compassionate towards many former waywards. I think in many cases they were just broken and vulnerable people that made a horrible choice (one that they regret immensely). I empathize a lot with that position and don't envy them. And I think that being broken and making a mistake (even a horrible one) is a forgivable offense when accompanied by true remorse. Some of my favorite posters around here are waywards. But they still get it that it that being a BS during a reconciliation SUCKS. Regardless of what the wayward does, the years that follow can be a triggery and self-doubting mess because it takes years to rebuild trust after a bunch of lying and deceiving. I'm not trying to be harsh to a wayward with that statement; that's just the natural consequence (when you lie, people tend to struggle with thinking you might just be a liar). I think a sh*t sandwich buffet might have been easier because I could just do it and it'd be over.

 

If you wanna advise the OP to divorce, go for it. You may well be right that he's just not one who can forgive. Personally, I just think it's ok to take your time because I recognize that it takes years for a BS to feel safe enough to commit to anything more than just not leaving. And many waywards "get it" that just sticking around is a gift and they patiently wait for the BS to feel safe enough to be back in with both feet. Frankly, I think that's the best process. There's no instant, cheap forgiveness but instead the person that violated the trust of their spouse does the long and hard work of rebuilding it. It may take years and it may suck for both people but if they both want the marriage long term, it's the best way to go. My hope is that she wins him over and considering that it's what she wants, I think I'm empathizing with her just fine.

 

I just don't think the OP needs to feel guilty if it doesn't work because he didn't put this situation into motion and he doesn't really hold any power, even though it may seem that he does. The reality is that he can leave at any time and so can she. But they both choose to stay. They are each making their own choices and doing it with their eyes open. Unless someone is lying or tricking the other person into staying, no one needs to feel guilty.

 

BH,

I don't know your full story and I do not mean this disrespectfully, but 7 years in a sexless marriage should have been serious cause for concern.

 

I know my marriage would be dead and buried if we didn't have it for that length of time. My H wouldn't have that.

Did the infidelity really come as a surprise?

[harrybrown]

Sorry to not remember everything from your sad situation.

 

Did you expose the OM to his family, did she have tests for stds?

 

She should find some way to show you how she is in NC from her work with the POSOM.

 

I think you have tried, but she really broke it again and again. You can't control her, but you can have consequences about her relationship with you.

 

Tell her to go to the OM and leave the rest of the family alone. They deserve each other.

 

Hope you find peace someday.

[Selfish]

One more thing mermeade. If you actually read my posts instead of latching on to the bits here and there you don't like about me you'd know I am not a christian. I stated that. Clearly.

[sandylee1]

Just a thought -I have known BSs to stay while they get their finances in order and keep them somewhere else, so they are not counted as part of the marital assets. The thinking being the WS doesn't deserve any of that money. This very often applies to the situation where the woman is a sahm or earns very little.

[merrmeade]

Oh so much self justifcation and twisting of words. I'm not even going to bother with your drivel. Want to stay inactive and the victim. Go ahead.

 

Just because on person said something and claimed something doesn't make it true. Would you really tell someone who had the crap beat out of then by their spouse "at least he didn't cheat on you. That pain is worse"

 

Well I hope you wouldn't. Op feels pain. And the pain he feels is the pain that matters. But all the talk about justifying feeling that pain by comparing it to other pain is just pointless words.

 

I think i've made myself. Maybe it is time for you to get off your own judgmental high horse and actually take responsibility for who you are?

Huh? Not sure what you're saying, but I was saying that his spouse and the posters I mentioned seem to see her, the WW, as the victim, rather than the OP. I was pointing out the thinking behind this kind of reversal and the inability to fully understand the trauma and pain that continues to drive the OP's difficulties with reconciliation.

 

I hope the full exposure of your rigidity has also helped OP as much as it has helped me. I thank you and will refer to it when dealing with my H and certain members of my extended family. Keep posting.

[sandylee1]

Thanks everybody for your input. I'm not hiding anything from my wife. She knows how I feel I just don't think she wants that to be the reality of what we are. Each affair is different as well. My wife operate an LTA over a year behind my back filled with sex and love. It wasn't fair and contradictory of what a marriage is supposed to be. There are things I go back and get pissed about. I remember getting mad about her depriving our marriage of sex and her excuse was "she had problems down there". Yeah, you sure did. You had somebody else's D problem down there. I'm still bitter about it and faced a true reality that the real probabilities of me getting over this and moving on are slim to none which has already been expressed. I told her she should go find somebody to fill the 100% she needs but she feels confident we are going to work for some reason.

 

The reason I feel guilty is because she is trying and I can't. Initially I was more happy than now. Like the other said. There was no plan book to this. It is extremely variable. I'll also re-iterate this too. I've got things going on right now where it would be a complete disruption to initiate a divorce. My mind would be taken off and into other places. Sometimes I do feel like I'm sitting on the fence on it. Some days I want to be there and some I don't. Strangest feelings. My wife initially did everything a WS SHOULD NOT do.

 

1. Broke NC multiple times and lied to me
   
2. Lied about love, sex and the affair (which I'm sure she continues to do)
   
3. Initially almost blamed me for her to be vulnerable and engage an affair
   
4. Chose her whacky family over trying to comfort me in the beginning
   
5. Decided to give me the "real" number of times they had sex only last summer
   
6. Lied about why she unblocked him from Facebook last December
   

 

And the humility...

 

Bringing me around AP many times and trying to get us to be friends? Who the hell does that? If I had an affair I would in no way want my wife around my AP at all. Recycling all the stuff she said during her affair makes my stomach turn knowing she was really that person. She brought me down as much as she could during that time as a man. She would constantly tell me how much she loves blue eyes which he has.. I have brown. She would tell me "real men can wear pink". I question what happened between them which made things go sour. She still hasn't come clean about it yet. They probably broke up like a boyfriend and girlfriend. I remember her saying "he's a liar" so I am wondering if when I found out HE was the one who told her good luck you're on your own. She seemed to have to built up resentment toward him for something.

 

I also question if they are still in contact even if it is lightly like - "How have you been?". I have that weird feelings.. Perhaps things are still there on the back burner waiting to be re-ignited if our marriage does fail completely. On my Facebook friend suggestion a random profile keeps coming up I had no idea who it was. No matching friends or anything. It was a local cleaning business. I checked its friend list and coming to find out my wife's AP's mom was on it. I concluded he was managing this account. I confronted my wife about it and told her who it was and how I knew because the account has his mom as a friend. This damn things keeps coming up. I scoped it out last week and his mom is gone from the friends. Coincidence?

 

I told my wife I thought they were still communicating and she went into freak out denial mode. The same mode was in when I first found out about her affair. I don't know what is real what is true. I also wonder if she's using our faith to brand build if you will to make me look like the bad person instead of her if our marriage falters. I think our church involvement is piling the guilt on to my shoulders.

 

 

Sorry for your pain. You were betrayed very badly and I honestly think you deserve better than a wife who did this. A year long affair filled with lies and deceit. From what you've said here on this post, it seems she could have left if they never broke up.

 

I imagine you try to get past the betrayal but it's very very painful.

The trust is gone and I think you are right that she's still in touch with him

[Selfish]

Huh? Not sure what you're saying, but I was saying that his spouse and the posters I mentioned seem to see her, the WW, as the victim, rather than the OP. I was pointing out the thinking behind this kind of reversal and the inability to fully understand the trauma and pain that continues to drive the OP's difficulties with reconciliation.

 

I hope the full exposure of your rigidity has also helped OP as much as it has helped me. I thank you and will refer to it when dealing with my H and certain members of my extended family. Keep posting.

 

I do not nor have ever implied his wife is the victim. The only person she has to blame is herself. I was merely explaining why he might feel guilty. And then (though you oh so kindly overlook it) have said far more times that his guilt should be ignored. And that we often feel guilt for things we shouldn't feel guilt for. As far as failed R goes. Failed reconciliation can be because of the BS. The WS can do everything right but the BS is unable/unwilling to do their part in the process. So to be clear. R takes two. But divorce won't be because of failed R. It will be because she cheated. He gave it time. Time doesn't seem to be his friend.

 

As to your own story I havent posted on it because i know you dislike me and twist my words. No point. I don't think your in real R and I don't think adult nephews should be treating you with such disdain and disrespect. And I think if your husband should be choosing you over them. If someone disrespects your spouse you do not allow them in your life. Pretty simple. He hasn't got your back.

Op's wife cut off her family for her husband. They sound terrible so probably a good thing for her too. She is not the same person as your husband and neither am I. Don't judge your husband based on other people because cheaters are individuals. Even if you don't like that idea (so much simpler to make a box and label them and the stuff them in.

 

I am not sure if the OP is offended by my posts or not. He has always seemed to take them well and agree with parts of them.

 

I also think you calling me rigid is a pot kettle thing.

Edited January 16, 2015 by Selfish

[Zenstudent]

This had nothing to do with my post. And if you weren't wallowing in your own self pity you'd see that.

 

I think perhaps you like to have an excuse for being miserable. And like to blame your wife and her infidelity until the end of time (so yeah even the real defintion of forgiveness is not present in your life). Or blame past drifter for not divorcing. Or whatever. Just continue being the victim of your own life. And that is your choice. But honestly looking at yourself and who you are today? That'd probably make your now life and future life a lot happier.

 

Buut I doubt you'd ever do that. You want to be miserable and right. Or at least your posts scream that. Be the victim and go on about nightmares of a day that happened over ten years ago and claim pstd (which by the way is totally over diagnosed. Pts, yeah that happens. Ptsd. Only a trained doctor can give that diagnosis and even then it is believed many hand it out to freely. Lots of papers on that one)

 

Jm take note, staying but not forgiving or loving your spouse could turn you into a drifter of the world. Do you want to be him in ten years?

Superiority and arrogance has definitely reached new heights. And you poked BH about lack of compassion? How about showing some of the empathy you claim to posses?

[Selfish]

Superiority and arrogance has definitely reached new heights. And you poked BH about lack of compassion? How about showing some of the empathy you claim to posses?

 

I have compassion for jm and others. I feel sorry for drifter but he is well past the stage of hand holding and coddelling.

[Furious]

A couple of days ago I sat my wife down and discussed everything I've spoken about here. I told her I'm not sure about any reconciliation though she's trying really hard. She asked me if I had another woman and I said no which I do not. It is weird how both of our perceptions are so different. As a WS I don't think she realizes what her actions did to me emotionally. She must feel like since her actions are great right now it will erase the past. I went through who I thought she really was as a person.

 

I told her I thought she banged a couple other guys through our relationship and I quote "You really think I'm that type of person?". Well, considering what you did, yes, I do. I was kind of shocked she even said that. The strangest thing though is I am the one who's starting to feel guilty. But why? Is it because she's doing everything right while I'm not able to move past it all? Can a betrayal really be the end all not matter what the present holds? I told my wife I love her but I'm not in love with her. I also told her I thought her and OM were still communicating. She's been leaving her phone with me lots more lately since I said that. That doesn't really matter to me now. If she was still speaking to him it would be from her work which she knows I have no access to.

 

All I can seem to think about lately is my future without her. It's like I'm dead focused on that. She's probably watching me change so much. I'm in a cutting phase of my workouts to get leaned up for summer. I'm also about to launch a new service/product in about a month which I've been extremely excited about. She has been aggressively trying to get involved with my work but I do not want her to. Anyways, the last thing I told her in our conversation was if I can't invest 100% back into her she will crave it. I think it is rather pointless for us to continue if I just can't do it. My emotions haven't really changed from this. She's making me feel bad for her though crying her eyes out. Then I just think about what she did and it lessens the pain of watching her cry. Why am I starting to feel guilty?

 

She told me yesterday she reached out to our pastor. I guess he told her him and his wife would meet with us and talk to us but advised they don't do long term counseling. I don't know what on earth we'd all talk about. I'd ask him if his wife ever cheated on him and as he said no I'd wonder what we are all doing there. He would never be able to relate to the internal feelings of that type of betrayal. It is something only somebody who's been cheated on knows and feels. I personally think it is easier for somebody from the outside who has never experienced infidelity yet to easily tell you to forgive your cheating spouse and move on with your marriage. I don't think they really computer how much internal destruction it causes to the BS.

 

 

Do not feel guilty that your heart is not committed to reconciling. You have the right to feel what you feel, and can only go by your own individual time line to come to grips with perhaps for you the marriage is over in your heart.

 

You've been honest with your wife, you've told her you are still on the fence and your marriage will most likely end. She knows this, and if she cannot accept this she can file for divorce. I get the impression, that you feel stuck, that you feel manipulated into being the one to pull the plug. I think this is what makes you feel guilty. The whole church thing and your wife ending up looking like the victim if you divorce leaves you looking like the bad guy.

 

I'd stop attending church with your wife if that's how you feel. if anything, attend church on your own and seek guidance on your own.

 

Take a deep breath and look into your own soul, find peace in yourself, and do not feel guilty to look after yourself.

 

I think you never imagined this is where you'd be and it's hard for you to let go of what was and what could have been. The what if's are sometimes what keeps you stuck.

 

It's ok to let go.

[aliveagain]

JM one of the things I discovered about past attempts at reconciliation is that I was very nostalgic for something I hadn't lost yet but I had. Does that make sense, your still with them but not. I was trying to extend the ephemeral nature of the moment and had to come to grips with the impermanence of my relationship with her, that made me very sad because I now saw her as transient. If I didn't lose her than the chances were very good that I would loose her in the future. I didn't feel safe no mater what promises came out of her mouth. What did they expect would happen when discovered? Has she answered that question for you?

[merrmeade]

I just this second got out of therapy (IC) and feel great and charitable toward everyone. I'm sorry, selfish, for whatever our misunderstandings are, but I don't feel like going back and figuring it out to see who's right. You can have it.

 

I do think that the best thing you could do for yourself, jm, is get into some good ic. We here on loveshack can only advise about what we read, but a therapist and you can see who you really are and what you need now and in the future. I'm feeling a lot more hopeful at this moment myself because of it and just worked out several things I need to say to some people that matter to me much better than I could've figured out on loveshack alone.

 

Peace.

[autumnnight]

jm, you were betrayed at the most basic and intimate level of your marriage. Then after it was discovered the betrayal and lies continued. You were hurt and then hurt again and again. I think it is perfectly valid that at some point that just becomes too much hurt to come back from. It isn't about hating your WW or anything else. It is about having so much horrific water under the bridge that it just can't work. There is no shame in that reality.

 

Once a BS comes to that realization, then really the discussion of the WS' character is pretty much done. They showed their character at the time of the A and even though they can change and may be trying to change it may just not be enough. The only real character a BS needs to worry about then is their own. If they are staying in the marriage "just until," are they being honest about that? Are they misleading the WS into thinking they are in it for the long haul just so they can get their ducks in a row? There was a thread awhile back talking about how wrong it was to not tell your spouse if you are planning on leaving as soon as the kids are gone, as soon as you finish school, etc. Is the BS staying out of A's of their own, even though they know they will eventually leave?

 

If the BS just cannot get past the pain of the A AND they are choosing to show good character themselves by not stooping to the same kind of deception they despise, then I say there is no reason to feel guilty.