How do I ask my wife if she's having an affair?

[beach]

Whether you repair anything or not - it's not possible to begin authentically repairing the damage until you have her truth about what has changed.

 

Without honesty - there's nothing that can be done.

 

 

I'd want to prove or disprove her cheating first.

 

Since most cheaters never admit - it is only wise to first collect evidence that either proves she is innocent or guilty.

 

If your gut is screaming that she may be cheating the it's wise to check and see if that is likely.

 

 

Showing your hand too early may allow her to become a better liar. My exH didn't admit until I had so much evidence he couldn't deny the evidence presented. If I hadn't had my proof he would have lied and lied and made me a huge fool.

 

I think he liked playing that game with me. But he is a cruel one... They are not all cruel that way but they are all very selfish and self centered.

[smackie9]

Smackie is a smart.. (married woman) but I still wouldn't be as forgiving in this matter. A relationship without trust is ****ed, and it seems you already are not trusting her so much.

 

Forgiveness is a matter of choice and I have seen many take this choice without regret. I don't think I could ever forgive either, BUT we can never know our true selves until we find ourselves in such a situation.

[Trimmer]

Forgiveness is a matter of choice and I have seen many take this choice without regret. I don't think I could ever forgive either, BUT we can never know our true selves until we find ourselves in such a situation.

I "chose to forgive" the first time my wife cheated, and I regret it immensely, because I didn't "do it right." I thought it "didn't matter whose fault it was" and that we should just forgive and move on and we ended up doing so, without healing our relationship, and later, the failures that we didn't address ultimately took us down. So it's not enough just to preach "it doesn't matter whose fault it is" and "forgive...".

 

You say it takes two to repair a relationship - exactly true. But it's possible for only ONE to damage it, and it often does matter who is at fault, because that has everything to do with the dynamic of repairing it. I'm not saying that ONLY one is at fault, or that only one bears the entire responsibility, but you create a linkage between those pressures you mentioned - ."...money issues, neglect, boredom, abuse, depression, acoholism, drug addiction, sex addition, mental illness, insecurity, low self esteem, etc...." - and the cheating, which I think is not pertinent.

 

These elements are issues in the damage to a relationship. They don't lead to cheating, which is what you seemed to imply (although please forgive and correct me if I'm wrong.) I think that cheating isn't a symptom - as if it's a result of those other damaging elements - it's another one of those elements in the list of things that damage a relationship, and in the case of cheating, it's a unilateral choice that adds damage to a relationship.

 

It damn well does "matter whose fault it is," because each party contributes uniquely to the damage in a relationship, and each needs to evaluate his or her contributions and failures in order to recover, if that's what they choose to do.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Trimmer

[smackie9]

Why are we even talking about this? This thread is about how to approach the suspicions of cheating....4 pages in and haven't heard a bloody thing yet.

[James7]

About the panties...

 

Check it a few days in a row. Even cheaters don't have sex literally every day. so if you see the same phenomenon every day, it's probably not sex that cause that.

 

I've done this over the last week already. It occured on two out of six days.

 

Moving on, I have managed to get my hands on her phone. Nothing there to see.

 

There was a suspect facebook message trail between her and a male who I don't know but I can only assume she knows through work. The message was archived so not immediately apparent. It started with what looks like banter between colleagues, maybe a bit flirtatious but only minor. The sort that many people do so not a problem. There are just a handful of messages in the middle whereby he says why not come out with us all after work on friday - she responds by saying in a flirty way , where shall I tell my husband I've gone. He responds by sarcastically saying tell him your being banged by the boss. She responds with just "lol". She then sends the message saying I might just do that! (I don't know if this means come out for a drink with colleagues or bang the boss!). He responds by saying if you do come out, you better wear that underwear that we all see in the office. She responds with a blushing smiley face.

 

On the surface this looks damning? But, it could also be seen as flirty banter and to be honest if I have a problem with that, I'm a hypocrite.

[smackie9]

It's not cheating, your wife has turned into an attention whore that is all.

 

Why not step out of your comfort zone, and surprise her with a sexy compliment like, "You wearing that to the office? It makes me want to tear it all off and do ya right here and now."

 

If she isn't getting special sexy attentioin at home, she's gonna get it somewhere else.

[Chemist]

It's not cheating, your wife has turned into an attention whore that is all.

 

Why not step out of your comfort zone, and surprise her with a sexy compliment like, "You wearing that to the office? It makes me want to tear it all off and do ya right here and now."

 

If she isn't getting special sexy attentioin at home, she's gonna get it somewhere else.

 

It is on some level emotional cheating, in my eyes. If she needs this to be satisfied in the relationship, she should have open communication with her husband, not look for it elsewhere.

 

Though I agree, step up the sexual game and see if she is responding to it. Maybe she just wants/needs more attention.

[NJ123]

I hate to say it, but usually threads with stories like this, the suspicions usually always turn out to be true that their cheating. I hope that's not the case in your situation though, but some of the things your wife is doing are highly suspicious.

[beach]

I've done this over the last week already. It occured on two out of six days.

 

Moving on, I have managed to get my hands on her phone. Nothing there to see.

 

There was a suspect facebook message trail between her and a male who I don't know but I can only assume she knows through work. The message was archived so not immediately apparent. It started with what looks like banter between colleagues, maybe a bit flirtatious but only minor. The sort that many people do so not a problem. There are just a handful of messages in the middle whereby he says why not come out with us all after work on friday - she responds by saying in a flirty way , where shall I tell my husband I've gone. He responds by sarcastically saying tell him your being banged by the boss. She responds with just "lol". She then sends the message saying I might just do that! (I don't know if this means come out for a drink with colleagues or bang the boss!). He responds by saying if you do come out, you better wear that underwear that we all see in the office. She responds with a blushing smiley face.

 

On the surface this looks damning? But, it could also be seen as flirty banter and to be honest if I have a problem with that, I'm a hypocrite.

 

 

It sounds like she's willing to participate in a conversation that's completely gross.

 

It sounds like that person is her boss tempting her to get together after work.

 

It's completely inappropriate to have an exchange as this unless you're already banging the boss.

[smackie9]

The content of the convo is not literal, and this is how a lot of adults will talk amongst each other, especially when they have worked together for years....IMO it's pretty tame compared to what we talk about at work and I work with a large group around 40+ people. Head in gutter convo is common.

 

Emotional cheating is dating without sex, expressing passion for one another, sexting, etc.

[beach]

The content of the convo is not literal, and this is how a lot of adults will talk amongst each other, especially when they have worked together for years....IMO it's pretty tame compared to what we talk about at work and I work with a large group around 40+ people. Head in gutter convo is common.

 

Emotional cheating is dating without sex, expressing passion for one another, sexting, etc.

 

Including underwear that a gal is wearing and references to banging the boss?

 

No, that is not appropriate or normal unless a person has invited that kind of conversation to happen.

 

Never in my 50+ years has a co worker talked about banging me or what underwear I wear, why? Because I didn't give off that idea that I would cheat... Or allow them to view my panties, bras I wore!

 

She gets those messages because she is participating on a level that makes it obvious she will be slutty at work.

 

 

If I had a spouse that got those messages it would be obvious that my spouse has crossed the line. Has no boundary. Willing to cheat.

[lolablue17]

I've done this over the last week already. It occured on two out of six days.

 

Moving on, I have managed to get my hands on her phone. Nothing there to see.

 

There was a suspect facebook message trail between her and a male who I don't know but I can only assume she knows through work. The message was archived so not immediately apparent. It started with what looks like banter between colleagues, maybe a bit flirtatious but only minor. The sort that many people do so not a problem. There are just a handful of messages in the middle whereby he says why not come out with us all after work on friday - she responds by saying in a flirty way , where shall I tell my husband I've gone. He responds by sarcastically saying tell him your being banged by the boss. She responds with just "lol". She then sends the message saying I might just do that! (I don't know if this means come out for a drink with colleagues or bang the boss!). He responds by saying if you do come out, you better wear that underwear that we all see in the office. She responds with a blushing smiley face.

 

On the surface this looks damning? But, it could also be seen as flirty banter and to be honest if I have a problem with that, I'm a hypocrite.

 

I always smile when i hear about cheaters who leave incriminating messages on their mobile, mails, FB... Well - most cheaters delete everything.

 

So i think that spot of e-messages is covered. You have the thing with the panties, you have her disappearing from work at lunch, And you have your guts, which I don't advice you to ignore. If i were you i would go deeper. Take the incriminating panties to a lab.

 

 

I can tell you what i did a long time ago when i suspected my girlfriend then. I didn't have the money to make a real research, and the internet was in it's beginning, so i said to her that i know everything, I know she's cheating and I'm taking a break.

 

She became panicked and swore she's innocent. I almost left but then i discovered that my suspicions were based on some misunderstandings, which made me look like a complete idiot.

 

So in my case she wasn't cheating. But i'm glad i did this because after that i was very calm and i trusted her more.

[No Limit]

Your gut feeling should be enough evidence. Your mind unconsciously picked up behavior patterns that are unusual and that for a longer time now, else it wouldn't be there.

 

A little tip for the future, keep away from the ever-flirtatious-ones. At least don't marry them.

[pies]

I don't understand, how do the work colleagues know what kind of underwear she is wearing? Is she really letting it show? Woah...

[James7]

Thanks for the thoughts. A lot to think about.

 

I've been thinking about the messages and it could be just flirty talk. To be honest it could be taken two ways. She's a flirty woman and always has been but that said, she does have a history.

 

With regards to underwear, again I could see this two ways. She wears very figure hugging clothes and is one of those women who wears black undies under a white blouse. This means it can be seen. Otherwise, she's giving peep shows.

 

I've asked a friend to order the semen testing kit. I would have done it but I don't want her to see it on my bank or card statements.

 

Finally, I did say to her this evening, "blimey you look sexy when you go to work", and it led to us having sex. Is that good or bad? I don't know. As for gut feeling, I don't know. I've always been relaxed and non possessive and sat here now, I dont know what my gut is telling me.

[lolablue17]

Finally, I did say to her this evening, "blimey you look sexy when you go to work", and it led to us having sex. Is that good or bad? I don't know. As for gut feeling, I don't know. I've always been relaxed and non possessive and sat here now, I dont know what my gut is telling me.

 

It says nothing. She can be cheating and still attracted to you.

 

The thing is - this bug is buzzing inside you brain. If you don't check and know the truth, you will not be able to continue living normally. So now it's about you, not her. Do everything it takes to kill that buzzing bug.

[pies]

There's something here bugging me that I forgot to comment earlier: the semen stains.

 

They don't make much sense to me in certain scenarios. If she were using protection, no stains whatsoever should be showing, at least not twice a week, maybe just once in a while. They shouldn't be that frequent, just out of common sense.

 

In case she isn't using protection I can understand the stains, but since you say that they are on the outside of the panties isn't that a bit weird? I mean, the only possible way of staining that I can imagine is the semen coming outside the vagina, and it would definitely be mixed with discharge. Unless the OM had a severe panties-ejaculating fetish.

 

I took a short course on Criminology last year and they told us that semen stains in fabric turn starched and kind of rigid: do they look/feel (using gloves) that way? I would perform the chemical test, of course, but the recurrent stains seem a little weird to me and the fact that she didn't wash them ASAP is also strange.

[Trimmer]

In case she isn't using protection I can understand the stains, but since you say that they are on the outside of the panties isn't that a bit weird? I mean, the only possible way of staining that I can imagine is the semen coming outside the vagina, and it would definitely be mixed with discharge. Unless the OM had a severe panties-ejaculating fetish.

Man, you don't really have much imagination, do you?

 

(1) They have sex with panties on (you know, pulled to the side), and he uses the withdrawal method: where might the semen end up?

 

(2) They DON'T have vaginal sex, but they get stripped down and she gives him oral and it goes everywhere.

 

(3) They DO Have vaginal sex, and things are messy afterwards. The panties are usually the last thing to come off, so they are closest at hand for a bit of wiping up afterward.

 

(4) They DON'T have vaginal sex, but she gives him a lap dance, in panties, and rubs him to completion, or other imagined scenarios of mutual rubbing where he finishes on her, with panties on.

 

Look, I know some of these are cheesy porn scenarios, but look, IF this is happening, then we're into some cheesy, illicit sex anyway, right? And if it possibly IS the boss she's banging, then maybe there's a power/control thing going on and he might well be into porn-type control scenarios...

 

Not saying I'm sure any of these ARE happening - just that with a little imagination, you can come up with some not-too-farfetched ways this could happen.

 

Let me turn it around: for a typical woman who wears underwear to work each day, what other, more reasonable ways might she get fluid stains on the outside of her panties? Are there better (or equally good) explanations? Maybe she spilled some oil & vinegar from a sub sandwich she was eating with her skirt hiked up?

 

I took a short course on Criminology last year and they told us that semen stains in fabric turn starched and kind of rigid...

Heck, I learned that from a somewhat longer course called "Puberty."

 

The content of the convo is not literal, and this is how a lot of adults will talk amongst each other, especially when they have worked together for years....IMO it's pretty tame compared to what we talk about at work and I work with a large group around 40+ people. Head in gutter convo is common.

I've heard some smack talk in my time, and I've heard some gutter talk as innuendo, but this level of directness is something more than that.

 

"...where shall I tell my husband I've gone?" she asked. This means that at least this subgroup of coworkers are aware that her activities are a secret from her husband, and are complicit in the deception. Wonder why they couldn't help you find her when you dropped by for lunch and she wasn't there?

 

"He responds by sarcastically saying tell him your being banged by the boss. She responds with just "lol"." This could just be bawdy banter, or it could be a bold statement of the absurd truth (from one or both sides) for comedic effect.

 

"...if you do come out, you better wear that underwear that we all see in the office." C'mon - given that we know for sure that she IS wearing sexy underwear to the office, this is flat out, direct, sexual flirting at a minimum.

 

Emotional cheating is dating without sex, expressing passion for one another, sexting, etc.

Ha - the devil is in the details, like in your "etc." I think it's a waste of time trying to precisely define a term like "emotional cheating" and then use that as a "yes/no" threshold for wrong/right. So if she's one inch to the right, she's "not emotionally cheating" and everything is OK, and if she moves a couple inches to the left, it IS "emotional cheating" and all hell breaks loose?

 

No, this defining terms to decide if it's right or not is a waste of time. The question is: is her behavior - whatever it is ultimately determined to be - acceptable within this marriage? There are lots of ways to be untrustworthy and inappropriate short of some specific definition of "emotional cheating" and just because you don't check off some box on a checklist doesn't mean that everything is fine.

 

I've been thinking about the messages and it could be just flirty talk. To be honest it could be taken two ways. She's a flirty woman and always has been but that said, she does have a history.

 

With regards to underwear, again I could see this two ways. She wears very figure hugging clothes and is one of those women who wears black undies under a white blouse. This means it can be seen. Otherwise, she's giving peep shows.

And it's not the least bit implied or demure: her coworkers are specifically asking her to give them that peep show, and she's participating.

 

Whether you create some specific definition of "emotional cheating" or not, my thresholds are this:

 

(1) If she's actively participating, encouraging, and supporting two-way suggestive sexual flirting and communication, that's over my boundary, and

 

(2) If she's hiding such sexual activities and interactions from me (which almost goes without saying) that's over my boundary, too.

 

...and this doesn't even deal with the question of whether there's something more than just the direct, two-way sexual banter going back and forth, e.g. possible semen stains implying sexual contact.

 

But you have to evaluate the evidence for yourself, and you have to decide on your own boundaries - these are just my own.

 

 

I've asked a friend to order the semen testing kit. I would have done it but I don't want her to see it on my bank or card statements.

It does seem like this would give you some information one way or the other.

 

Finally, I did say to her this evening, "blimey you look sexy when you go to work", and it led to us having sex. Is that good or bad? I don't know. As for gut feeling, I don't know. I've always been relaxed and non possessive and sat here now, I dont know what my gut is telling me.

Some people in affairs withdraw from their partner, some engage in an enhanced level of sex. She may sense you are suspicious and is trying to f**k your concerns away. Be careful you don't alter your routine enough to give away too much until you get more conclusive information...

 

My ex stepped up the wild sex, just before she left me - in that case, I think it was a kind of a final test to see if there was enough passion left that she should stay for.

 

Bottom line, I don't think you can draw a firm conclusion from her being sexual with you one way or the other.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Trimmer

[petee]

Mate, it sounds like you're level heade and methodical. Excellent qualities.

Is your wife on the pill? If not I doubt she's daft enough to get semen near her crotch, that would be too silly. Surely she'd insist on a condom?

If she is on the pill, then there is a chance, and to be fair there's probably some sick people here wanting her to be involved in an affair.

 

give her time alone in the house, whilst a key logger does it's job. If you're in then she's probably unlikely to get at it.

I hate to say it, but your gut instinct is nearly always right. Nearly being the key word. I have heard of women that sleep with both their lovers and their husbands, so the fact she put out the other day could all be for you not to be suspicious. Just out of interest how would she feel if you started wearing the equivalent to work, smelling nice and being flirty with women at work? Just wondering.

Anyway, as a soft Brit, I just hope this has been an exercise in cluedo, and not the run up to a miserable Xmas......but as a species we just seem so good at destroying one another for little or no real gain. Good luck mate, I hope it works out.

[pies]

 

Let me turn it around: for a typical woman who wears underwear to work each day, what other, more reasonable ways might she get fluid stains on the outside of her panties? Are there better (or equally good) explanations? Maybe she spilled some oil & vinegar from a sub sandwich she was eating with her skirt hiked up?

 

 

Yeah, I can see that it COULD happen, that's why I'm saying that I'd perform the chemical test too. But I just couldn't imagine it, now with the scenarios you suggested it makes more sense now. Thanks

[Bryanp]

Hello James,

 

I would like to go back to something you said in your earlier posts.

You stated that your wife had a one night stand but she immediately told you about it afterwards. That sentence makes me think that you thought it was no big deal because she told you herself that she screwed another man. If you went to you wife and said Honey I screwed a hot woman last night but give me credit I am telling you immediately now, how would your wife react to you?

 

I have a hunch that you simple rug swept it away by saying she told me soon after as if that made much of a difference. What were the consequences to this action? If there were none that your wife knows that there really are no consequences to her screwing other men anyway.

 

This is a big deal that she screwed another man while you are married to her.

Why do I get the feeling that seemed to be not a big deal to either one of you? What were her reasons for betraying your marriage this way?

[Realist3]

James,

 

Since you have access to her FB account I would suggest staying logged in as her 24-7 for several days at a time, whether it be your laptop and or phone. This way you will get the notifications of new messages before they can be deleted.

 

where shall I tell my husband I've gone.

 

Hug red flag on two counts. First, why isn't she telling you the truth? Secondly, why is she conspiring with another man about lying to you about where she will be?

 

tell him your being banged by the boss

 

That may not be sarcasm. In fact, I would say it was more of a joke, tongue in cheek, if you will. Variations of that suggestion have happened so many times in my affair, I couldn't begin to count. In other words, "Just tell him the truth. Heh heh..."

 

It could be innocent, but it surely is not professional. I would say that is another red flag.

[elaine567]

The ONS - was it out with the girls, drunk and had sex with some stranger or was it someone she knew?

 

Who wears black mesh underwear to work and with a white shirt too?

 

What does the boss look like?

[oldshirt]

I'm not sure you have a smoking gun here but you at least have a loaded gun. It may not be smoking but it is at least still warm and with powder residue in the barrel.

 

You have enough probable cause here to bump up your investigation to another level.

 

Do the voice activated recorders that people have suggested. Install key logger programs on her computer(s). Put a GPS tracker in her car.

 

Keep doing the semen detection on her clothes. A sitting president was impeached for that so that will be a smoking gun if it turns positive.

 

And finally, I think you have enough grounds to hire a professional investigator. The discussion with her boss I believe goes way beyond flirty banter between coworkers. I think it is probable cause for the gloves to come off on the investigation. A PI would be able to do some forensic computer analysis and retrieve deleted and hidden conversations. Cheaters often have completely secret email and Facebook accounts and burner phones. A PI would be able to sweep your house to see if there is another phone in your house stashed somewhere.

 

You don't have "proof" yet but you are very very close.

 

Do NOT confront her or ask her yet. She is already covering her tracks well. If you show your hand too soon she'll go deeper under ground.

[insert_name]

 

Who wears black mesh underwear to work and with a white shirt too?

 

 

Not necessarily someone having an affair...but definitely someone who is looking for one.