Western men seeking foreign wives.

[SawtoothMars]

I'm height weight proportional and do not even remotely have my pick of men. I was single for 6 years, could not get dates, wasn't being approached and was getting rejected when I made an approach. Nor do I go after that top 20%. I like average guys.

Having a vagina isn't some magical secret weapon, lol.

 

I think part of that is just a function of your local culture. If you lived in some place like Plano, Texas, you would more likely have a greater amount of male interest.

 

Lets face it... California has like 2 hot single under 30 women for every 1 average guy.

 

It isn't a joke that women often move to Seattle from LA, and get married within a year. I sometimes do work for the wedding industry and lots of women say this to me.

[Phoe]

It is stupid to assume that a guy who goes elsewhere to find a wife does so because he can't find one here. It's like saying women buy Gucci shoes because they can't afford a pair at Walmart.

 

I agree, it's not that they can't get anything here, they just want something different.

 

I wouldn't compare it to Gucci, as if others are inherently better quality, some will be, but it's not gonna be a constant. It's simply something different.

 

The one thing I will disagree with, is the idea that one HAS to go abroad to find what they are looking for. It can still be found right at home.

[Banjo Han]

I have dated quite a few women and I have never dated one that could really cook.

 

Is cooking one of your top 3 priorities in the woman your looking for? That strikes me as odd.

[Cristo]

I'm wondering why American men are so surprised with a woman who is taking care of her house and her husband. How are women there? Don't they clean the house? Don't they cook?

 

No, most women in America can't cook.

[lollipopspot]

Is cooking one of your top 3 priorities in the woman your looking for? That strikes me as odd.

 

Seriously. Cooking isn't that hard - I'd think a guy could do it himself if he really wants cooking and the woman doesn't enjoy it. Or get on the ball and earn a little more money and buy cooked meals at a good restaurant or deli. There are natural food places like Whole Foods that have healthy salad bars and hot bars and deli items.

[Phoe]

I have dated quite a few women and I have never dated one that could really cook. I think a man looking for a woman to fill that traditional female role would have much better luck with a foreign woman than one from the USA. Just my experience.

 

I think that with eating out being such a big part of american culture, that men aren't as picky about a woman's cooking skills as men may have been in the past. Many men don't require cooking skills since it's easy to get by without those skills. Since its not a necessity, many women won't see much value in learning to be good at cooking, because there won't be much payoff.

 

I only learned to cook well simply because it was something I had interest in. It's fun for me. It's never been an asset though, as no man has cared that I can cook. It's just something I enjoy doing. I think most people who cook are the same, they do it because they enjoy it, not because it's going to make them more dateable.

[Anela]

You are right, good women are out there, but they are really hard to find.

 

We're right here, arguing with you lot.

[Phoe]

I actually consider my ability to cook to be a bit of an asset. It's definitely scored me some points in a few relationships. I'm no chef, but I have taken a cooking class, plus I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

 

Well I'd say it scored me some points, plenty of "thanks babe, you're awesome!", but it was never a make or break thing. These men still would've dated me even if I couldn't cook. Therefore it just wasn't much of an asset. Just a pleasant bonus I suppose

[Anela]

 

 

It's like we are already married then!

 

I might have nightmares for a month now.

 

I know happily married people. You guys make it sound awful, so what mistakes did you make? It can't all be the fault of the ex.

[lollipopspot]

I'm someone who likes simple foods. Simple salads, boiled potatoes with sauce, pulses and grains, fruits, vegetable juices, easy fresh vegetable soups, etc... I can cook, but I think it's healthier and simpler to cultivate a taste for simple, whole foods, if you don't already have it. My mom used to cook a bit but I don't prefer the heavy sauces and complex, often fatty meals.

[SawtoothMars]

I agree, it's not that they can't get anything here, they just want something different.

I wouldn't compare it to Gucci, as if others are inherently better quality, some will be, but it's not gonna be a constant. It's simply something different.

The one thing I will disagree with, is the idea that one HAS to go abroad to find what they are looking for. It can still be found right at home.

 

YES! That is exactly how it is! Thanks for the great description. They do want something different.

 

My cousin is 390 lbs... and makes a ton of money in the tech industry. He gets sex from time to time here in America, but cannot get anywhere with foreign women. Even the South American cultures that have chubby chasers won't go for someone his size. I can't be sure, but I think most of his dates come from the same circle of ladies who have heard about the size of his junk. I've never seen it, but a drunk Ex GF told me that he is built like a coke can. Now I can't help but crack up every time I see him drinking a soda....

 

Anyway, I think the primary issue with Americans is that so many people grew up in divorced homes that they don't know how to be in a relationship. You really sound like a quality person and a great woman! I hope your BF understands how lucky he is. I could write a novel on all the crazy girls I dated.

 

I should post a disclaimer... my wife is from Vietnam and works as a physician. My xWife is American and works as the International Marketing Coordinator for a fortune 500 company. I love strong successful women and I have a lot of experience... and bias on this particular topic. In all honesty they both have some striking similarities. I think if raised in the same culture they might have become nearly identical people.

 

In regards to cooking... my xWife is an amazing cook! She doesn't like to cook or do it often, but when she does it's fantastic. My wife is also a great cook and loves to do it. She is a serious traditionalist and likes to cook the traditional Vietnamese way... which is often challenging to my American palate. Her Pho is the best ever! I've often thought I could make a fortune selling it.

Edited October 4, 2014 by SawtoothMars

[SawtoothMars]

I might have nightmares for a month now.

I know happily married people. You guys make it sound awful, so what mistakes did you make? It can't all be the fault of the ex.

 

I know this was directed at Enigma, but since I'm of talking personal stuff in this thread....

 

There are a number of things I did wrong in my previous relationship that I wouldn't do again. I grew up being taught too much feminist bullcrap. I too often suppressed my urges to be aggressive and manly. A great example is that when my xWife and I were first married... I would refuse to choose a restaurant without her 100% approval. I came across to her as an indecisive weenie. I failed to stand up to her when it was needed.... thinking instead that she would be happier with a man who apologized and agreed with her. In essence I really wasn't much of a man.

 

Honestly, my xWife is a good person. At some point I just couldn't continue being the man she married and changed to something more Type A. She found a BF that better fit her needs and begin cheating. I don't blame her as much as our culture.

[thysecret]

You guys have it in your heads that that all eastern women are stay at home moms. That's really not true and not what I was looking to hear when I made this thread.

 

I wouldn't want to be a stay home mom. Even if my husband earn lesser than me, I wouldn't mind at all. But of course I would come home and take care of my family, family is important too. I wouldn't wanna raise spoilt brats as well. In life, what I want is a happy family with a roof over my head, food on my table and maybe even some spare money for travelling. I don't fancy big houses or cars.

 

Well I can't speak for my Asian counter parts but I put loyalty as an important aspect in my relationship. The girls we have here is slowly adopting western mindset. Some of my friends would say I'm boring and old fashioned but I still stick to my own mindset. My friends love it when their partners splurge on expensive stuff for them, branded bags and fancy dinners. But what I want is more realistic or should I be considered the least romantic girl ever. I would choose to stay home and play video games with my partner over fancy high class dinners. But that's just me. They called me weird, but who cares? Hahaha

[Els]

I'm from a foreign country and have family there.

 

Why then do you have to ask what it's like? And why do you lump all non-American women into 'foreign'? The only people who do that tend to be, well, Americans.

 

I wasn't looking for your approval. If you read my OP, it asks does anybody have experience with foreign women. Western men with first hand experience.

So what was the implication of the quote below? Pray do explain.

And you're not very likely to hear about positive stories from women because, well......... I'm not gonna bother.

 

This is kind of worth talking about. The women who are actively trying to date outside their culture are often doing it to get away from aspects of the culture they don't like. For example, I've met Indian women who just didn't want to deal with an overbearing mother-in-law. I also know a Japanese woman who is over 30 and wants to get away from the extremely age oriented dating culture in her home country. So, in essence what you are saying is true that foreign women looking for husbands outside their own country are often not within the mainstream norm.

 

That wasn't exactly what I was saying - what I was saying was that people are all different. What you are saying is partially true, and applies to women who emigrated and are open to dating anyone they meet (which includes Caucasians). On the other hand, of the women who reside in Asia and did not care to attempt to emigrate, IME only a very specific subset of them specifically look for a Caucasian husband, and based on what I know about these women (which is a fair bit), I would advise any men whom I care about to avoid those women. If anyone wishes to disregard the warning, that's their prerogative and really no skin off my back.

 

The women who just happen to meet and fall in love with Caucasian men are a different story, and they are usually not as forward (if we are talking about Asian women, that is).

 

I expect he will try it out. It may wind up being one of life's most rewarding endeavors.

I hope he will, and I agree. Traveling - proper traveling, not tourist attraction-hopping - is always hugely beneficial.

[Els]

Also, for the record, the younger generation of most Asian cities is changing. Partly for the worse, but partly for the better. Of most of the Asian couples (who still live in Asia) that I know of, within the 20s or 30s age groups there is equality in terms of household chores. Both the men and women cook and clean and do the laundry. In the few cases where the women does the majority, it is because the husband is the sole/main breadwinner. All of them seem very happy with their marriages.

 

Thankfully, the sordid arrangement where the woman works full-time and comes back to the full load of chores seems to be a relic of the past. Also for the record, the only couple in their 20s that I know of who had such an arrangement, is American. Fortunately I think she has broken up with him and found a better partner recently.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Elswyth

[SawtoothMars]

That wasn't exactly what I was saying - what I was saying was that people are all different. What you are saying is partially true, and applies to women who emigrated and are open to dating anyone they meet (which includes Caucasians). On the other hand, of the women who reside in Asia and did not care to attempt to emigrate, IME only a very specific subset of them specifically look for a Caucasian husband, and based on what I know about these women (which is a fair bit), I would advise any men whom I care about to avoid those women. If anyone wishes to disregard the warning, that's their prerogative and really no skin off my back.

 

The women who just happen to meet and fall in love with Caucasian men are a different story, and they are usually not as forward (if we are talking about Asian women, that is)..

 

Of course people are all different... but we are also very influenced by our culture. Sometimes I think people don't understand how strong that hold is over us. That said, I agree with what you are saying here.

 

I've met several women from wealthier asian countries looking specifically for caucasian husbands. All of them were looking to get away from the social pressures of their respective cultures. Let's be honest here... asian cultures require a lot of women. Western cultures basically expect women to be pretty and that is it. Even that pressure can't be too strong given the obesity rate.

 

As for Caucasian men looking for some kind of domestic slave because of a misguided stereotype... they often wind up with their dick in a blender... sometimes literally. I think desiring this stereotype is a basic overreaction guys tend to make after trying to put up with all bad women locally.

 

I've dated around enough to know there are legions of Lena Dunham type women in the millennial generation. They seriously suck. There are so many you cannot completely avoid them. What do you do when 25% of the female population are not good people, crap mothers, and worthless as a spouse?

[Els]

Of course people are all different... but we are also very influenced by our culture. Sometimes I think people don't understand how strong that hold is over us.

 

Possibly, yes.

 

I've met several women from wealthier asian countries looking specifically for caucasian husbands. All of them were looking to get away from the social pressures of their respective cultures. Let's be honest here... asian cultures require a lot of women.

Well, honestly, Asian cultures demand a lot of everyone. There isn't much space for individual expression or 'being your own person' or 'doing what you love', at least not in the mainstream traditional culture. I've known guys who have given up their passions to work in a more lucrative field that they disliked, because that was what was expected of a man. I've also known guys who worked 16 hour days to put food on their family's table, while their wife was a SAHM. Things are changing a bit in many ways (see my above post), but IMO the traditional culture is just tough on everyone, all around.

 

As for Caucasian men looking for some kind of domestic slave because of a misguided stereotype... they often wind up with their dick in a blender... sometimes literally. I think desiring this stereotype is a basic overreaction guys tend to make

Agreed.

 

I've dated around enough to know there are legions of Lena Dunham type women in the millennial generation. They seriously suck. There are so many you cannot completely avoid them. What do you do when 25% of the female population are not good people, crap mothers, and worthless as a spouse?

I'm not so sure this is restricted to the female gender. There are many men who make terrible partners. You avoid them by having a good filter, selecting for personality instead of more superficial traits. Works for me, at least... Edited October 6, 2014 by Elswyth

[SawtoothMars]

Possibly, yes.

Well, honestly, Asian cultures demand a lot of everyone. There isn't much space for individual expression or 'being your own person' or 'doing what you love', at least not in the mainstream traditional culture. I've known guys who have given up their passions to work in a more lucrative field that they disliked, because that was what was expected of a man. I've also known guys who worked 16 hour days to put food on their family's table, while their wife was a SAHM. Things are changing a bit in many ways (see my above post), but IMO the traditional culture is just tough on everyone, all around.

 

Oh... This is so true! One of my best friends is Japanese and he married a lady from the U.S. because after converting to Christianity he couldn't conform to the cultural requirements. He wanted to work shorter hours and spend time with his family.

 

The bottom line is that Asian cultures will naturally change as they become wealthier and life is not as difficult. I do not expect their cultures to become carbon copies of the west though.

 

I'm not so sure this is restricted to the female gender. There are many men who make terrible partners. You avoid them by having a good filter, selecting for personality instead of more superficial traits. Works for me, at least...

 

I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't think that western feminism has been good for creating quality men. I know for fact that the brainwashing they give young men made me socially retarded with women until probably age 22 or 23. I was convinced at one point that talking to a woman without an express invitation was a form of rape. I generally believed that most of my natural behaviors where bad and evil... in particular aggressive and take charge type behavior. It also frustrated me to death that girls would constantly go for men who expressed behavior types that I WANTED to express myself but had been brainwashed into believing was bad. It particularly got to me that what seemed like the most chauvinistic and objectifying jerks on my football team constantly had great girlfriends... while I had crappy cheaters despite being much better built physically and a team captain.

 

I remember one time in particular I was dating this nice girl. She was on the student council and in a few of my AP classes. I really liked her a lot and we had been dating for 2 months when I went to a party that I hadn't been invited to. I caught her making out hot and heavy with an ugly guy who every knew slapped his girlfriends around. I was straight mindblown and frustrated. A month later she had to skip over a week of school because this guy smacked her around so bad. She asked me to get her homework for her... which I did. I ran into her again at a party my Sophomore year of college, and I asked her why she did that to me. She said 2 months and all I would do is make-out and hold hands... she honestly thought I was gay.

 

Sorry for the long story.

[Els]

Oh... This is so true! One of my best friends is Japanese and he married a lady from the U.S. because after converting to Christianity he couldn't conform to the cultural requirements. He wanted to work shorter hours and spend time with his family.

 

Yeah, I've heard that Japanese men who work 'only' 40 hours a week are generally considered undesirable partners, as it apparently shows lack of motivation and drive. Fortunately the country I come from is more moderate in this aspect, but there are still some men working very long hours because the economy is such that they just have no other choice if they want to be a 'good husband' (read: breadwinner).

 

The bottom line is that Asian cultures will naturally change as they become wealthier and life is not as difficult. I do not expect their cultures to become carbon copies of the west though.

 

Modernization is certainly happening, but wealth on the other hand... in many countries the gap between the rich and the poor is excessively large, much more so than in the majority of the developed world, and getting larger by the year. This will lead to other problems IMO... but I suppose I'm going off on a tangent here.

 

Sorry for the long story.

 

Sorry that happened to you. Honestly it sounds like you dodged a bullet though.

[SawtoothMars]

Yeah, I've heard that Japanese men who work 'only' 40 hours a week are generally considered undesirable partners, as it apparently shows lack of motivation and drive. Fortunately the country I come from is more moderate in this aspect, but there are still some men working very long hours because the economy is such that they just have no other choice if they want to be a 'good husband' (read: breadwinner).

 

What country is that?

 

Modernization is certainly happening, but wealth on the other hand... in many countries the gap between the rich and the poor is excessively large, much more so than in the majority of the developed world, and getting larger by the year. This will lead to other problems IMO... but I suppose I'm going off on a tangent here.

 

Asia has a lot of growth left compared to Europe. The Europeans are just frantically trying to manage their decline. They have become too socialist.

 

Sorry that happened to you. Honestly it sounds like you dodged a bullet though.

 

Naw, she is a good girl.... better than most. We still stay in touch a bit.

 

The take home message is that I wasn't taught to be a man... and in fact was taught NOT to be a man. So, when you say there are some men of dubious quality running around... I totally agree.

[Els]

What country is that?

 

A few people here know, but I prefer not to write about it explicitly and publicly. Too identifiable.

 

Asia has a lot of growth left compared to Europe. The Europeans are just frantically trying to manage their decline. They have become too socialist.

Well, this varies a lot depending on exactly which Asian or European country we are talking about, but there are countries at extreme ends of the spectrum. Neither extreme is good, IMO. When there are people living in mansions with several maids, and people who are literally starving to death outside their doors, there can be very negative repercussions.

 

The take home message is that I wasn't taught to be a man... and in fact was taught NOT to be a man. So, when you say there are some men of dubious quality running around... I totally agree.

Ah, okay, fair enough.

 

I've always been puzzled by the 'men should be aggressive and Western feminism is hampering that' debate, though. IME the desire for an aggressive man is more common among women from Western countries. Of course, the opposite (extreme passivity) is probably undesirable everywhere, but of myself and most of the Asian women I know, aggressiveness isn't considered a very important trait in men. Being responsible, driven, committed, caring, loyal, etc, are all much more important.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Elswyth

[Anela]

I was just thinking about this thread, and others that I've seen here over the years.

 

It seems like these threads are all about what's in it for you, as men. I can't picture some of the guys here, doing what my Dad has been doing for months: bathing his 68-year-old wife, because she couldn't walk to the bathroom, and stand in the shower. She is now strong enough to have proper baths, thankfully, but she still needs help getting in and out of there.

 

He also fed her when she couldn't feed herself, does laundry (as do I), shops for food (I help), cooks dinner (as do I), washes floors, and so on. My parents have always taken care of each other, and been able to take care of themselves. My mother is a Western woman, a hard worker, owned her own business up until six years ago. Before they married, she was taken care of by her mother - she worked and cleaned the house, but her mother had always cooked dinner, and done the laundry, so dad had to teach her to do both. But they're *partners*, and think beyond what's in it for them (unless they've been through an occasional bad patch, when anyone would think about moving on).

[Woggle]

What men should do is aim for quality. Think of the qualities you want in a woman and go for women who have those qualities. If it comes in the form of a foreign woman or a younger or older woman so be it. That is the best way to approach dating.

[SawtoothMars]

A few people here know, but I prefer not to write about it explicitly and publicly. Too identifiable.

 

Understandable. Asian cultures are similar to European cultures in that they have some underlying similarities, but also massive differences.

 

My wife has a friend from Thailand who literally believes it isn't cheating when her husband (also Thai) uses prostitutes. Just a few hundred miles away in Vietnam the government actively goes after prostitutes and many hotels will harass guys who use them.

 

Well, this varies a lot depending on exactly which Asian or European country we are talking about, but there are countries at extreme ends of the spectrum. Neither extreme is good, IMO. When there are people living in mansions with several maids, and people who are literally starving to death outside their doors, there can be very negative repercussions.

 

Large income gaps are simply an indicator of other potential problems. During the widest income gap in US History, working class wages went up 50% over a short 5 year period... while also absorbing a huge wave of immigrants into the labor pool.

 

It is much more important to pay attention to what rich people are doing with their money. If they are stuffing under a mattress that's bad. Right now they are investing it into Asia, not Europe. This kind of capitalist action has lifted 500 million Chinese people out of poverty over the last 30 years. The previous 30 years China tried to flatten out that income gap and and wound up starving 100 million people to death.

 

Asia and Asian people have a very bright future ahead, provided they can maintain peace.

 

I've always been puzzled by the 'men should be aggressive and Western feminism is hampering that' debate, though. IME the desire for an aggressive man is more common among women from Western countries. Of course, the opposite (extreme passivity) is probably undesirable everywhere, but of myself and most of the Asian women I know, aggressiveness isn't considered a very important trait in men. Being responsible, driven, committed, caring, loyal, etc, are all much more important.

 

That is a very good point. Perhaps that is one reason why guys who have those traits but are not extremely assertive tend to gravitate towards Asian women?

 

I learned in my early 20's to be very aggressive/assertive and act as confident as possible. These two traits alone made me very successful at dating "western culture" women. It felt like having all those other traits was just a bonus. I mean loyalty is given lip service, and so is caring... but neither of those traits are essential for dating.

 

It's hard to talk about this in general terms because there are always variations among people... but it's easy to see trends. If you read studies that show what creates a happy lasting marriage, none of these traits are reflected among things that western culture values in a spouse.

[SawtoothMars]

I was just thinking about this thread, and others that I've seen here over the years.

It seems like these threads are all about what's in it for you, as men. I can't picture some of the guys here, doing what my Dad has been doing for months: bathing his 68-year-old wife, because she couldn't walk to the bathroom, and stand in the shower. She is now strong enough to have proper baths, thankfully, but she still needs help getting in and out of there.

He also fed her when she couldn't feed herself, does laundry (as do I), shops for food (I help), cooks dinner (as do I), washes floors, and so on. My parents have always taken care of each other, and been able to take care of themselves. My mother is a Western woman, a hard worker, owned her own business up until six years ago. Before they married, she was taken care of by her mother - she worked and cleaned the house, but her mother had always cooked dinner, and done the laundry, so dad had to teach her to do both. But they're *partners*, and think beyond what's in it for them (unless they've been through an occasional bad patch, when anyone would think about moving on).

 

That is just how you perceive the discussion because most guys are focusing on the role of women... and what they would like rather than what they are offering. Not to say it isn't an important discussion to be had.

 

I honestly think you are referencing a generation long gone, with values, and traditions that are not mainstream today. My father worked with a guy who a few years back came down with Multiple Sclerosis. In the later stages my parents had to go visit him 4 nights a week because his 38 year old wife divorced him. She took the kids and moved in with another man.

 

I gave up my dreams of graduate school so that I could work and pay for my xWife to get her MBA. When I wanted to go back to school she basically asked me to wait until it didn't affect our income. Yet... she spent $50,000 on her BF... of which I had to pay half!

 

Can I see myself taking care of my sick wife at 68? Hell yeah! Have I seen or experienced that same level of duty or devotion from the people around me? Not a bit.

 

What men should do is aim for quality. Think of the qualities you want in a woman and go for women who have those qualities. If it comes in the form of a foreign woman or a younger or older woman so be it. That is the best way to approach dating.

 

I could not agree more! Too many guys are exclusively focused on looks.