OLD The truth about what really works for guys.

[Andy_K]

How about this statistic then?

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/481786-online-dating-did-does-work-you

52% of Loveshack voters are either in a relationship from OLD or have had many dates from OLD.

23% found it a waste of time and effort.

The happy customers outnumber the unhappy ones by more than 2x.

 

Right, but the poll is misleading. I've had several relationships from OLD, so that would count me as a happy 'success' (depending on when you ask) but I still think it's a very flawed environment heavily weighted against most guys.

[Keenly]

How about this statistic then?

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/481786-online-dating-did-does-work-you

52% of Loveshack voters are either in a relationship from OLD or have had many dates from OLD.

23% found it a waste of time and effort.

The happy customers outnumber the unhappy ones by more than 2x.

 

You are taking a very... very... VERY small control group that's already going to be predisposed to using OLD anyway because we are all some what internet savy. How about using a neutral control group that is not JUST love shack voters, and uses average everyday people from around the U.S. ( or world )

[normal person]

 

@Normal person - I started to take your advice when you told me you used a paid site. I thought that would weed out the attention whores. So I did a quick search on match and I swear, right on the first and second page, were 5 of the same attention whores that I chatted with on OKcupid. They put their pics on there, but I doubt they paid to use it.

 

To be honest I'm not familiar with the concept of an OLD attention whore. Sorry if you've had a bad experience but I can't say that's been the case with me. Every girl has been for real.

 

Generally those who fail at it, are incredibly bad at it. Their photos and profiles are terrible. And rather than following advice and fixing it, they just blame the tool, quit, turn bitter and tell everyone about how rubbish it is. Well sorry but it does work, you're just using it wrong!

 

Wonderfully put, I couldn't agree more.

 

I still think it's a very flawed environment heavily weighted against most guys.

 

That's sort of the point I (and some others) have been trying to make. If you want to be successful then don't be "most guys." Everyone knows the formula for attracting women, there's not much secret to it. If you don't do those things it's not going to be easy for you online or otherwise. If you're just "most guys" then all OLD will do is shine a spotlight on your mediocrity.

[Woldemar]

The majority of the men in the OLD world are the guys you keep putting in the friendzone.

 

This is what I've learned from using OLD, experimenting with different profiles, talking with friends in real life, and reading forums. Ill speak from each perspective.

 

Average man makes a profile online to find a date. Sends out messages to a bunch of different women...and gets almost no responses. The only women who do respond to him, or try to contact him, are generally the least desirable women on the site. Guy might get a few dates, but most of them lead nowhere. Eventually, the guy gets tired of this, and decides to either quit OLD, or start having sex with those girls he wasn't all that interested in.

 

Average girl makes an online profile. She starts getting messages pretty much right away. A lot of the guys messaging her are either ugly, or send really short messages. She will talk to the better looking of the guys who message her and eventually set up a date if he doesn't disappear on her first. A few of the guys might be nice, and not bad looking, but there will be a couple that are just really smooth, and inspire that chemistry right away. Girl friendzones all the nice guys, and decides to hang on to chemistry guy. After dating for a short while, girl finds out chemistry guy was just sleeping with her, and was probably sleeping with other women too. Guy tends to disappear after sex, or after a couple months. Online, we call this the pump and dump. Girl then goes back to OLD to find another guy.

 

So, what are you suggesting? Immediately cut ties with all chemistry guys? I'm new to this "pump and dump" behavior, and it's certainly something that's taking a lot of adjusting to on my part. How am I going to tell if the next man I'm interested in isn't screwing around with other women? I thought OLD was an easy way to "sort out the bad apples," but I suppose it can go both ways - to and against one's advantage.

[Woldemar]

Not the majority, a minority. A small group of the guys who are especially good at creating that 'chemistry' feeling with women. If they made you feel it, they can almost certainly do the same with others too. Guys that are good at dating don't get that way by accident, they do it by dating a lot.

 

There are exceptions to every rule. I hope your guy is one.

 

I'm debating between hoping that he is, and burning down his house.

 

I mean how can you FAKE a connection!? It's either there, or it's not! I mean don't these men hope to eventually find the one? Or are they going to continue sleeping with several women simultaneously even when they do find her, just because OLD allows it to happen so easily?

[jay1983]

So, what are you suggesting? Immediately cut ties with all chemistry guys? I'm new to this "pump and dump" behavior, and it's certainly something that's taking a lot of adjusting to on my part. How am I going to tell if the next man I'm interested in isn't screwing around with other women? I thought OLD was an easy way to "sort out the bad apples," but I suppose it can go both ways - to and against one's advantage.

 

The guys out of your league are the ones screwing around.

[Andy_K]

That's sort of the point I (and some others) have been trying to make. If you want to be successful then don't be "most guys." Everyone knows the formula for attracting women, there's not much secret to it. If you don't do those things it's not going to be easy for you online or otherwise. If you're just "most guys" then all OLD will do is shine a spotlight on your mediocrity.

 

Right, but that's missing my point... I'm not here to complain that I don't do well enough on OLD - I do far better than the vast majority. But that doesn't matter. If 'most guys' are failing at online dating, then surely the problem IS the tool? Are the majority of the population undateable? Surely not. Any system which only works for a small percentage of the population is not a good system!

 

So if online dating only works for a minority, then the interesting question to me is not how to become a part of that minority, but how to make it work for the majority instead. What are the problems which unbalance it so, and can any of them be addressed? Let's look at the bigger picture beyond our own selfish needs. If online dating worked for the vast majority of people, the world would undeniably be a happier place.

[isisisweeping]

deleted their profiles after a week or 2. AKA attention whores.

.

 

 

I deleted my profile after 3 days the first two times, and a week the third-- not because I was an attention whore or wanted attention (perish the thought) but because I felt bad not rsponding to nice messages and I was talking to enough people I was interested in to pursue and see if anything develops. I do not like the huge numbers where you don't get to know anyone and it's a comparison process. This time using online dating.

 

When I was on the first time when I was not even of drinking age yet, I removed it after four days and had met my ex-husband in that time period.

[Keenly]

The negative whiners see abject failure.

 

My guy is confident. He met me. We are great together.

 

Wow. Great point. / sarcasm.

 

 

So I guess that one person that wins the lottery can say that everyone that lost is just a negative whiner?

 

So because it worked for you, it works the same everywhere? Ridiculous.

 

 

If you looked at statistical evidence of the number of people that use OLD, all websites, and the number of relationships that form using these websites, 5% to 10% can in no way shape or form, be deemed a success.

 

 

can you think of anything in the history of time where a 5% to 10% success rate is successful?

[rewl]

If you looked at statistical evidence of the number of people that use OLD, all websites, and the number of relationships that form using these websites, 5% to 10% can in no way shape or form, be deemed a success.

 

can you think of anything in the history of time where a 5% to 10% success rate is successful?

But people will always continue to use OLD, not because of the success rate for relationships, but other rates e.g. friendship-making rate or if you're a horny guy/girl, the BANGING rate, you understand what I'm saying?

[serial muse]

 

If you looked at statistical evidence of the number of people that use OLD, all websites, and the number of relationships that form using these websites, 5% to 10% can in no way shape or form, be deemed a success.

 

 

can you think of anything in the history of time where a 5% to 10% success rate is successful?

 

Except that you made that number up out of whole cloth, so it's completely irrelevant. Why build your case around it?

 

I agree that the poll here at LS is pre-selected in various ways. But not just for internet-savvy types; it's also pre-selected for unhappy people. It's entirely possible that it's weighted against success in OLD, because unhappiness is generally what brings people to LS in the first place, yes? We all acknowledge that LS isn't really representative of the real world, in large part because the misery here is more pronounced. So the truth is, you can't make any kind of a case for anything. And the vast majority of people who are on OLD are dabblers anyway. How can you meaningfully include them in any kind of a statistic?

 

I think the only really useful thing one can do is learn from the success stories.

 

So. What can we really say, then, about the success of OLD?

[Keenly]

But people will always continue to use OLD, not because of the success rate for relationships, but other rates e.g. friendship-making rate or if you're a horny guy/girl, the BANGING rate, you understand what I'm saying?

 

Well.. no one is going to stop because it exists.

 

Both genders have completely destroyed it and turned a lake of fish into a cesspool of raw.sewage.

[rewl]

Well.. no one is going to stop because it exists.

 

Both genders have completely destroyed it and turned a lake of fish into a cesspool of raw.sewage.

Tell that to myspace

 

I agree OLD went to the dogs though, it's used to basically get laid a lot of the time. It's like an electronic toothbrush, you can clean your teeth with it or use it as a vibrator.

[RonaldS]

I'm debating between hoping that he is, and burning down his house.

 

I mean how can you FAKE a connection!? It's either there, or it's not! I mean don't these men hope to eventually find the one? Or are they going to continue sleeping with several women simultaneously even when they do find her, just because OLD allows it to happen so easily?

 

The connection isn't fake. It's very real. The thing is, the guy knows how to make the connection. A connection happens when both people feel a comfort and attraction, and men who are good at cultivating connections are able to do so mainly because they are very good at getting women to feel comfortable with them.

 

 

But how?

 

It's sort of like being able to make people laugh. Same concept. People who are funny are funny because they understand the nuances of comedy and delivery. Rarely is the text of a funny comment in and of itself enough to make people laugh...it's how and when it's delivered, and understanding how to create a picture in somebody else's head that makes it funny, and people who are funny understand this and deliver those elements deftly.

 

Same thing when talking to a woman you barely know.

 

When I'm talking to a woman, first and foremost, I bring confidence. It's not contrived or anything like that. It's just the confidence of experience. I've already been successful with women, and here's another woman, and I know I will be successful with her, too. So, the conversations start easily and flow smoothly, because I'm not nervous or worrying about what I say. I just act like myself, again, due to confidence. I know from experience that women love my personality, world view, attitude, humor, philosophies, etc. I know this already, so the I can just be genuine. And I'm funny, and quick with my humor. Again, I already know this, so I am confortable.

 

When you are comfortable and confident in who you are, then you can be genuine. If you are genuine, connections happen. If the attraction and the compatibility is mutual, then the rest is easy.

 

It has nothing to do with trying to say or do what women want. A lot of guys mistakenly attempt that, but it doesn't work. It's not placating or trying to impress. Eliciting that connection is about...I guess, it's sorta like knowing how to scratch them right where they itch.

 

But connections are mutual. I've had an authentic connection with every woman I've done anything with.

[RonaldS]

being a good looking mega jerk works for guys.

 

What does it have to do with being a jerk?

[irc333]

Right, but that's missing my point... I'm not here to complain that I don't do well enough on OLD - I do far better than the vast majority. But that doesn't matter. If 'most guys' are failing at online dating, then surely the problem IS the tool? Are the majority of the population undateable? Surely not. Any system which only works for a small percentage of the population is not a good system!

 

So if online dating only works for a minority, then the interesting question to me is not how to become a part of that minority, but how to make it work for the majority instead. What are the problems which unbalance it so, and can any of them be addressed? Let's look at the bigger picture beyond our own selfish needs. If online dating worked for the vast majority of people, the world would undeniably be a happier place.

 

Yeah, I get a kick out of so-called know-it-alls that think there's some kind of "formula" to "create attraction". I think it started off with some author who decided on writing a book on such things.

 

Now the market is over saturated with "How to win a woman with online dating".

 

To make an analogy, its like those scientists who discover the opposite of what USED to be unhealthy for you.

 

"Newsflash! Scientists discovered that eggs are unhealthy for you!"

"Newsflash! Scientists discovered it's actually the egg YELLOWS that are unhealthy for you!"

 

Now "Organic" food is the new "thing" these days.

 

Remember the Atkins Diet and its follow-up the "South Beach Diet"?

[Woldemar]

The connection isn't fake. It's very real. The thing is, the guy knows how to make the connection. A connection happens when both people feel a comfort and attraction, and men who are good at cultivating connections are able to do so mainly because they are very good at getting women to feel comfortable with them.

 

 

But how?

 

It's sort of like being able to make people laugh. Same concept. People who are funny are funny because they understand the nuances of comedy and delivery. Rarely is the text of a funny comment in and of itself enough to make people laugh...it's how and when it's delivered, and understanding how to create a picture in somebody else's head that makes it funny, and people who are funny understand this and deliver those elements deftly.

 

Same thing when talking to a woman you barely know.

 

When I'm talking to a woman, first and foremost, I bring confidence. It's not contrived or anything like that. It's just the confidence of experience. I've already been successful with women, and here's another woman, and I know I will be successful with her, too. So, the conversations start easily and flow smoothly, because I'm not nervous or worrying about what I say. I just act like myself, again, due to confidence. I know from experience that women love my personality, world view, attitude, humor, philosophies, etc. I know this already, so the I can just be genuine. And I'm funny, and quick with my humor. Again, I already know this, so I am confortable.

 

When you are comfortable and confident in who you are, then you can be genuine. If you are genuine, connections happen. If the attraction and the compatibility is mutual, then the rest is easy.

 

It has nothing to do with trying to say or do what women want. A lot of guys mistakenly attempt that, but it doesn't work. It's not placating or trying to impress. Eliciting that connection is about...I guess, it's sorta like knowing how to scratch them right where they itch.

 

But connections are mutual. I've had an authentic connection with every woman I've done anything with.

 

I'm completely with you on acting "au naturel" with people. I think he is exactly that. He doesn't try to impress me, and what really attracts me about him I reckon, is that he is always just being himself. Top it off with intelligent, witty, chivalrous and caring. The last one especially, just sends me through the roof. But I think you nailed it... He never tries to impress me, and that might have just sealed it for him.

 

Question is... what to make of it now Just today he'd inquired about my weekend plans, and he's been in contact with me all week. The idea of him possibly screwing someone tonight just drives me nuts. Not sure how I should proceed.

[Woldemar]

This is very true. I used to use OLD years ago, and it was totally different back then. A lot more laid back and much easier to meet decent women. Now, I'm at the point that if I were to be single again, I wouldn't even consider dating a woman who was using OLD.

 

Interesting point. Why is that?

[Anela]

I have noticed that using OLD has raised women's expectations exponentially. In the real world I have a much better chance at attracting decent, dateable women. Online, I got ignored a lot, went on a couple pointless dates, wasted time on some flakes, and met a couple FWB. Not worth it.

 

It's raised men's expectations, as well - considerably.

[jay1983]

It's raised men's expectations, as well - considerably.

 

How?

 

This should be good. lol

[normal person]

Right, but that's missing my point... I'm not here to complain that I don't do well enough on OLD - I do far better than the vast majority. But that doesn't matter. If 'most guys' are failing at online dating, then surely the problem IS the tool? Are the majority of the population undateable? Surely not. Any system which only works for a small percentage of the population is not a good system!

 

So if online dating only works for a minority, then the interesting question to me is not how to become a part of that minority, but how to make it work for the majority instead. What are the problems which unbalance it so, and can any of them be addressed? Let's look at the bigger picture beyond our own selfish needs. If online dating worked for the vast majority of people, the world would undeniably be a happier place.

 

Well, I'd actually agree with you. I think in this thread I said that OLD has a lot of limitations. At the present time it tends to favor the guys who look good on paper. It can filter out people based on height and income but it's yet to be able to highlight peoples' more abstract qualities. Women can't search for "men who will do X for me when I need it" or guys with a specific level of empathy, compromise, or understanding. I guess that's sort of eHarmony's angle but I doubt their whole methodology actually works.

 

Yeah, I get a kick out of so-called know-it-alls that think there's some kind of "formula" to "create attraction". I think it started off with some author who decided on writing a book on such things.

 

I wouldn't believe any of that either. You don't need a book to tell you women like confidence, humor, money, etc. It's certainly not rocket science but the process isn't exactly easy.

[Diezel]

It's raised men's expectations, as well - considerably.

 

Quite the opposite, actually.

 

Most men will cater to the thought of a greater variety of women online and take their chances on women they might not normally date, just because.

 

Yet, I've seen plenty of 4's and 5's who would ignore most men above their "level" simply because there was an excess of men willing to lower their standards.

 

The game has changed because of OLD whether we want to admit it or not. It's the way it works, at least in a sub-35 bracket. There are variations according to geographical locations, but their are many constants.

[jay1983]

. You don't need a book to tell you women like confidence, humor, money, etc. It's certainly not rocket science but the process isn't exactly easy.

 

Looks and money come first, if you don't pass that part the other stuff is neither here nor there. You won't even get the time of day to show your personality.

[Keenly]

It's raised men's expectations, as well - considerably.

 

 

 

Yeah... I don't think thats even possible. I think we can all agree OLD has a large population of men that pursue a small population of women. This doesn't just remain this way. Guys slowly expand their parameters until they find someone they like.

 

Girls could in theory do the same (I don't know, I've never been one) But if your average decently looking female gets 20 to 50 messages DAILY, like I've heard from some women on LS, then you would not really need to broaden your standards. In fact, you could narrow it down to near perfection, if you were so inclined.

[Keenly]

Women can't search for "men who will do X for me when I need it" or guys with a specific level of empathy, compromise, or understanding. I guess that's sort of eHarmony's angle but I doubt their whole methodology actually works.

.

 

 

This would probably be a creation that made hundreds of millions of dollars annually.

 

 

I'd REALLY like to sign up for THAT website.