OLD The truth about what really works for guys.

[Glinda.Good]

The percentage of guys who are actually attracted to a girl 2 times his size are really low. Despite all the internet memes I see speaking to the contrary, most men don't want a really big girl.

 

That's fine; everybody has preferences and I wouldn't want to date a big fat guy, either.

 

But to describe a fat woman as "the bottom of the barrel" irks. She is simply not attractive or interesting to him. That's fine. But she is not pond scum. Who knows. She might not like him, either, even if he is not fat.

[April Moon]

Girl here! My bf and I met through OKC! We have been together for over 8 months so OLD does work for some people.

[ktya]

It's a figure of speech. It doesn't mean they're worthless. There are women who can get any man they want and would't touch me with a ten foot pole. Who am to judge? Dating market value doesn't equal "human" value. Women told another poster he should give (significantly) heavy woman a chance becauae he may miss out on a good woman. So what? All thin/average/chunky girls are bitches? I dated two rather chunky girls. One was an emotional wreck (good woman though) and the other was the biggest bytch I datedin my life.

 

 

To be honest ive had two girlfriends who were large one by accident and one who grew into that size. Ive dated a couple bigger girls as well. Bigger girls are a complete pain in the a**.

 

Their lack of self esteem causes many issues. They overcompensate for this lack of self esteem by masquerading as though they were paris hilton on the runway.

 

If you are 100lbs overweight i dont give a damn that you spent $150 on your nails and $200 on your hair and that you have perfect makeup. Buy a gym membership instead, save your money.

 

And i most certainly dont want to catch your aggregious attitude acting like your all tha

[ktya]

It's a figure of speech. It doesn't mean they're worthless. There are women who can get any man they want and would't touch me with a ten foot pole. Who am to judge? Dating market value doesn't equal "human" value. Women told another poster he should give (significantly) heavy woman a chance becauae he may miss out on a good woman. So what? All thin/average/chunky girls are bitches? I dated two rather chunky girls. One was an emotional wreck (good woman though) and the other was the biggest bytch I datedin my life.

 

 

To be honest ive had two girlfriends who were large one by accident and one who grew into that size. Ive dated a couple bigger girls as well. Bigger girls are a complete pain in the a**.

 

Their lack of self esteem causes many issues. They overcompensate for this lack of self esteem by masquerading as though they were paris hilton on the runway.

 

If you are 100lbs overweight i dont give a damn that you spent $150 on your nails and $200 on your hair and that you have perfect makeup. Buy a gym membership instead, save your money.

 

And i most certainly dont want to catch your aggregious attitude acting like your all that like your side by side equals with anna kornukova when you could fit three of her inside you

[bluestealth]

So I'm trying to figure out what tone to strike in the first few messages because several women lately just disappear after their second or third response just before I'm about to ask for a number (or they disappear after suggesting phone communication). My first message starts off with "Hi X, nice to meet you. My name is X." and then I'll make a comment about something we have in common. After that I'll ask her a question or two about something she has a passion for. If I get a response I'll answer any of her questions, carry on the conversation, and continue with another question or two. Usually after her 2nd or 3rd response I'll suggest talking on the phone.

 

Throughout the conversation I might throw in a complement or two about her interests but never anything physical. Even when it seems like great conversation on both sides they'll just disappear. I'll throw in a little humor, some lol's, and occasionally a smiley face but nothing very flirty. Does this sound reasonable or would most women prefer more flirting? I'm actually looking for something serious and long-term which might be quite a task for OLD.

[normal person]

So I'm trying to figure out what tone to strike in the first few messages because several women lately just disappear after their second or third response just before I'm about to ask for a number (or they disappear after suggesting phone communication). My first message starts off with "Hi X, nice to meet you. My name is X." and then I'll make a comment about something we have in common. After that I'll ask her a question or two about something she has a passion for. If I get a response I'll answer any of her questions, carry on the conversation, and continue with another question or two. Usually after her 2nd or 3rd response I'll suggest talking on the phone.

 

Throughout the conversation I might throw in a complement or two about her interests but never anything physical. Even when it seems like great conversation on both sides they'll just disappear. I'll throw in a little humor, some lol's, and occasionally a smiley face but nothing very flirty. Does this sound reasonable or would most women prefer more flirting? I'm actually looking for something serious and long-term which might be quite a task for OLD.

 

If I was a girl, this would sound a bit boring to be honest. I don't send messages to girls but I think I might be able to edit this down for you:

 

"Hi X, nice to meet you, my name is Y."

You didn't meet. Your name is trivial information. Save space, embrace succinctly and leave it for the end. Sounds way too formal. Wasted words.

 

"and then I'll make a comment about something we have in common."

So you basically do the same thing the other thousand guys with absolutely no originality do. "Wow, we both like basketball. Awesome." This isn't interesting. It's not challenging or complex or flirty or anything. If you're relying solely on the words in your message, saying "we both like X" does next to nothing. You might as well have just sent her a blank message. Plenty of people like that same thing, that isn't necessarily a prerequisite or qualifier. If your personality sucks (or is non-existent) why would she care if you both have a same interest? Don't highlight the interest, highlight your personality under the disguise of the interest. Why not say something poignant about the interest? Why not make a joke about it? Anything is better than saying "hey, we both like it. The end."

 

If you want her attention you have to move her; you have to make her feel something. Why would she respond to your standard issue, run of the mill question that she's gotten a thousand times from every other moron on the site?

 

If I get a response I'll answer any of her questions, carry on the conversation, and continue with another question or two. Usually after her 2nd or 3rd response I'll suggest talking on the phone.

 

If I was a girl I'd be bored by now. 2 or 3 messages and now I've got to talk to you on the phone? Just ask her out already. Why all the unnecessary steps? Talk about all that stuff when you're out.

 

Throughout the conversation I might throw in a complement or two about her interests but never anything physical. Even when it seems like great conversation on both sides they'll just disappear.

 

Complementing her interests? Sounds odd. And you can't say anything physical yet because you haven't met her. Maybe they disappear because you take forever.

 

I'll throw in a little humor, some lol's, and occasionally a smiley face but nothing very flirty. Does this sound reasonable or would most women prefer more flirting? I'm actually looking for something serious and long-term which might be quite a task for OLD.

 

Again, I'm just bored. Make your move already. If I'm a girl I see a grown man who won't take action and uses smiley faces. The whole approach just isn't very conducive to maintaining interest. I'm not going to know if I like you until I actually meet you, so why are you doing all this?

 

Just my two cents, maybe some girls could chime in.

Edited July 29, 2014 by normal person

[ChessPieceFace]

I'm seeing 9 girls right now sleeping with 3 of them

 

Uh, to me this is proof that OLD does not work. LOL.

[Keenly]

If I was a girl, this would sound a bit boring to be honest. I don't send messages to girls but I think I might be able to edit this down for you:

 

"Hi X, nice to meet you, my name is Y."

You didn't meet. Your name is trivial information. Save space, embrace succinctly and leave it for the end. Sounds way too formal. Wasted words.

 

"and then I'll make a comment about something we have in common."

So you basically do the same thing the other thousand guys with absolutely no originality do. "Wow, we both like basketball. Awesome." This isn't interesting. It's not challenging or complex or flirty or anything. If you're relying solely on the words in your message, saying "we both like X" does next to nothing. You might as well have just sent her a blank message. Plenty of people like that same thing, that isn't necessarily a prerequisite or qualifier. If your personality sucks (or is non-existent) why would she care if you both have a same interest? Don't highlight the interest, highlight your personality under the disguise of the interest. Why not say something poignant about the interest? Why not make a joke about it? Anything is better than saying "hey, we both like it. The end."

 

If you want her attention you have to move her; you have to make her feel something. Why would she respond to your standard issue, run of the mill question that she's gotten a thousand times from every other moron on the site?

 

If I get a response I'll answer any of her questions, carry on the conversation, and continue with another question or two. Usually after her 2nd or 3rd response I'll suggest talking on the phone.

 

If I was a girl I'd be bored by now. 2 or 3 messages and now I've got to talk to you on the phone? Just ask her out already. Why all the unnecessary steps? Talk about all that stuff when you're out.

 

Throughout the conversation I might throw in a complement or two about her interests but never anything physical. Even when it seems like great conversation on both sides they'll just disappear.

 

Complementing her interests? Sounds odd. And you can't say anything physical yet because you haven't met her. Maybe they disappear because you take forever.

 

I'll throw in a little humor, some lol's, and occasionally a smiley face but nothing very flirty. Does this sound reasonable or would most women prefer more flirting? I'm actually looking for something serious and long-term which might be quite a task for OLD.

 

Again, I'm just bored. Make your move already. If I'm a girl I see a grown man who won't take action and uses smiley faces. The whole approach just isn't very conducive to maintaining interest. I'm not going to know if I like you until I actually meet you, so why are you doing all this?

 

Just my two cents, maybe some girls could chime in.

 

Thank you for actively demonstrating why OLD is such a huge.pain in the ass. You expect the world to be given to you to impress you on the first few messages yet offer absolutely zero in return.

[hasaquestion]

Thank you for actively demonstrating why OLD is such a huge.pain in the ass. You expect the world to be given to you to impress you on the first few messages yet offer absolutely zero in return.

 

Its not expecting the world though.

• Say something interesting
  
• Say something else interesting
  
• Get to the damn point and ask her out
  

 

is that so much to expect?

[normal person]

Thank you for actively demonstrating why OLD is such a huge.pain in the ass. You expect the world to be given to you to impress you on the first few messages yet offer absolutely zero in return.

 

If you're getting messaged, you don't necessarily have to offer anything in return. They saw your pictures, they read your profile, and now they want your attention already regardless of what you say in response. You're already offering whatever it is they want.

 

The process is almost like an auction. Your message/profile combination is a creative bid for the person's attention. If you can't offer more/different/exciting/better/something they want, you're not going to win the item. It's the harsh reality. It's not a nice game. You can't expect people to give you the benefit of the doubt when they have no reason to give you any consideration to begin with. You have to give them a reason.

 

I also think you're being a little extreme. I never said "offer them the world," essentially what I said was "be interesting and don't say the same mindless crap everyone else does, because it won't work." I'd imagine the guys who are unsuccessful at online dating have failed to figure this out or evolve to a point beyond this. I hate to keep bringing up the Darwinian aspects of this whole process, but if someone lacks the ability to grab your attention for one reason or another (be it the message, the pictures, the profile) then sort of by definition they aren't good enough for you. You have a standard or standards that they didn't reach via their message, pictures, profile, personality, etc. Something was lacking, they didn't reach your bar.

 

If a you expect people to reciprocate your attention merely on the basis that you want theirs, you're being somewhat naive. If a person you don't like calls you, are you under obligation to answer? I can see how that mindset would cause a person to be resentful towards OLD -- that person also needs to change their perspective about the whole thing. OLD is a more like an auction as opposed to an attention charity.

[Keenly]

If you're getting messaged, you don't necessarily have to offer anything in return. They saw your pictures, they read your profile, and now they want your attention already regardless of what you say in response. You're already offering whatever it is they want.

 

The process is almost like an auction. Your message/profile combination is a creative bid for the person's attention. If you can't offer more/different/exciting/better/something they want, you're not going to win the item. It's the harsh reality. It's not a nice game. You can't expect people to give you the benefit of the doubt when they have no reason to give you any consideration to begin with. You have to give them a reason.

 

I also think you're being a little extreme. I never said "offer them the world," essentially what I said was "be interesting and don't say the same mindless crap everyone else does, because it won't work." I'd imagine the guys who are unsuccessful at online dating have failed to figure this out or evolve to a point beyond this. I hate to keep bringing up the Darwinian aspects of this whole process, but if someone lacks the ability to grab your attention for one reason or another (be it the message, the pictures, the profile) then sort of by definition they aren't good enough for you. You have a standard or standards that they didn't reach via your message, your pictures, your profile, your personality, etc. Something was lacking, you didn't reach their bar.

 

If a you expect people to reciprocate your attention merely on the basis that you want theirs, you're being somewhat naive. If a person you don't like calls you, are you under obligation to answer? I can see how that mindset would cause a person to be resentful towards OLD -- that person also needs to change their perspective about the whole thing. OLD is a more like an auction as opposed to an attention charity.

This isn't one of the " I messaged her so she should respond " kind of point I'm making.

 

What I'm saying is that I signed up for OLD in order to meet girls and gauge compatabilty to find a long term partner and we could enrich each others lives.

 

 

Instead it seems most women on these sites seem to like the attention and have less of an interest in having realistic expectations.

 

My messages are pretty good. I've had a lot of practice, haha. But sometimes these women, and judging by your post, you too, are INCREDIBLY picky and set the bar so ridiculously high ( you want to be impressed, be impressed again, and keep being impressed) within a few messages, and what this does in reality is it hurts the women.

 

You pass up that guy that doesn't have the worlds most exciting first message because he is instantly judged and discarded when that dude would actually make a fantastic partner.

 

 

It doesn't bother me when it happens to me ( what does bother me is the time I wasted reading and coming up with interesting things to say ) but I just can see that they are only hurting themselves. If you never give anyone a chance because they aren't the best first message writer, how can you possibly expect to meet some one special?

 

 

 

I say this to both genders. You are not going to find a perfect mate on OLD. its just not going to happen. What you CAN find, is some one good for you, and ypibare good for them. You can have a great relationship.with so many people online. But you have to be REAL. You have to have realistic standards, both with photos and with conversations, and you have to.be willing to put in the effort in browsing, messaging, responding, and getting to know people.

 

 

If you copy paste messages to every girl down the list, you won't succeed. If you discard every message you get because its not the absolute perfect message that has your heart pounding and butterflies fluttering , you won't succeed. Both sexes are WAY too quick to discard people for insignificant faults that if the online part was removed would never be an issue.

 

 

TL:DR. people are human. If you are too unforgiving, with looks or messages, you will be the one that remains alone.

 

That's how I see it anyway.

[Mrin]

I'm with ktya - OLD works like a champ. Like an ATM for women. If someone said "go" right now, I could line up 4 dates this weekend with women I am not even talking to currently - in one to two days. I am usually casually dating 3 to 4 women at a time. If I like one I will go down to 2. If I really am blown away by one, they I will focus on her exclusively and take down the profiles - too much work to do otherwise. That's actually only happened once in the last two years voluntarily - just the other day actually.

 

I don't know what some of the poster's problems are... if you live in a big city. Small towns = OLD death. Have some good pics, write a good profile (short-ish, funny), be genuine but brief in your post initial contact communication and that's about it. Have some female friends look over your profile.

 

TBH, I only rarely contact women first out of the blue. I either wait for them to contact me, or at least see they are looking at me. Then I contact them or respond if I am interested.

 

Other things: avoid all that PUA crap. In my experience, most decent women on OLD are get this, looking to actually meet a genuine man. A man who can make them laugh. A man who can write full sentences. A man who can spell. A man who can charm them. You have to understand that the vast majority of men on OLD are playing PUA games or texting stuff like "ur hot" or "DTF?". Avoid appearing at any way like they do.

 

Just be yourself man. Be witty. Be charming. Use correct english, spelling and grammar.

[normal person]

What I'm saying is that I signed up for OLD in order to meet girls and gauge compatabilty to find a long term partner and we could enrich each others lives.

Instead it seems most women on these sites seem to like the attention and have less of an interest in having realistic expectations.

 

I feel for you, but surely now you've realized that OLD is more than just gauging compatibility. I can't really comment on the attention thing as I'm not sure about it, but I'll agree that OLD at first is where people raise their expectations. They can set filters and search for parameters that they desire. They're actively excluding people they don't want and trying to get the best for themselves.

 

My messages are pretty good. I've had a lot of practice, haha. But sometimes these women, and judging by your post, you too, are INCREDIBLY picky and set the bar so ridiculously high ( you want to be impressed, be impressed again, and keep being impressed) within a few messages, and what this does in reality is it hurts the women.

 

I didn't really mean for my last post to be directed at you specifically. In a way I think you're right, anyone who sets their standards too high will not get the success they want. They'll hopefully get a wake up call with eventually and revaluate. Those who don't will end up alone.

 

If we're talking about me specifically, I am picky. I worked really hard to get where I am and be who I am. I like getting what I want (deserve, even) and I don't want to settle for less if it's going to make me ultimately unhappy. That being said, although it flies in the face of what I wrote in my earlier post about most people, I personally do give people the benefit of the doubt a lot of times. If their message is boring or if they aren't terribly good at writing a lot of times I go out with them anyways. Not as charity, but to give them the benefit of the doubt and see what they're like in person (note: I know most other people don't do this, I'm sure I'm something of an outlier here which is why I wrote the opposite in the earlier post). I've been out with girls who seemed boring on paper but in person were shockingly not as expected at all.

 

You pass up that guy that doesn't have the worlds most exciting first message because he is instantly judged and discarded when that dude would actually make a fantastic partner.

 

You're right if the girl's only criteria is the message; if the guy is relying just on his words. But this isn't usually the case. To be honest this whole tangental conversation is a bit irrelevant because she just has to tolerate the message if she likes what she sees otherwise. If your pictures/profile are pleasing to her, all you have to do in the message is not say you're a serial killer. I've gotten bad messages from really cute girls who, on further inspection, I then went out with. I've also gotten bad messages from really cute girls who I disregarded because everything else about their online presence was off-putting too.

 

 

 

If you copy paste messages to every girl down the list, you won't succeed. If you discard every message you get because its not the absolute perfect message that has your heart pounding and butterflies fluttering , you won't succeed. Both sexes are WAY too quick to discard people for insignificant faults that if the online part was removed would never be an issue.

 

Agree, if you don't have success you'll have to reevaluate your standards or start playing into the rules of the game, ie: look better on paper. So instead of guys asking everyone to be fair and give you the benefit of the doubt (which is very unlikely to happen), they need to crack the girl's code. They need a combination of pictures, paragraphs, skills, visible desirable qualities that are appealing, and those are the only tools at your disposal.

 

The thing is that OLD isn't really egalitarian and I'm not sure if many unsuccessful people ever considered that it might not be. The technology and other limitations make it so that you're likely to be successful only if you look good on paper. You're limited to what you can write about yourself and show in pictures. Sometime in the future there will be a better way for people to display their non-visible qualities but we aren't there yet and that, I imagine, is a big reason why so many guys struggle with it.

Edited July 29, 2014 by normal person

[Fondue]

I had some great results with OLD--- I met some awesome women.

 

All of them told me that it was my eye catching first message that got me through the door. That, and my quirky profile.

 

Your first message should be short, but funny/interesting and something she can reply to. THat's all.

 

For example, I met my current GF online. I don't remember her profile. But what I remember vividly is that in her favorite music section, she put in Meatloaf. That's all that caught my eye.

 

All I messaged her with was: "'Two Out of Three Ain't Bad,' great song, or the greatest song?"

 

That's all that was needed to get me through the door. She said it was an awesome first message that showed both: I read her profile, and that I too shared that common interest.

 

As far as your profile goes, I got a lot of points on making my profile a bit of funny into it. I wrote out each section of my profile as if I was an outer space alien looking to meet a human female and take her to my home planet. I of course put in my interests as if they were "earth person" interests, but with a bit of a twist to them. I got a lot of messages from women whom said they loved reading my profile. Which of course, also got me through the door.

 

Basically, be different. ALso, find something that connects you to that person.

[mattny]

Im on Fondue's and ktya's side. I didnt believe it at first, I think Im an average looking guy (no Ryan Gosling) but after my friends haggled me enough I signed up for Tinder and doing one for POF

 

 

In three weeks ive matched up with 32 women, got the numbers to 18 or so of them, and hooked up with 4, and they all looked pretty decent IMO (not overweight for their size). The rest I either chat with from time to time, throw some witty banter out there and keep them interested. I like it when they hit me back with sarcasm or a joke...it shows me shes opened herself up.

 

Im no ktya as far as sealing the deal, but practice takes perfect. My confidence has shot up and I work out all the time now and LOVE the way I look. My career is starting to move finally, but half these girls dont care that im still buried in debt....so why would I tell em? I keep it fun and playful, and keep it honest. I tell em straight up, just looking to get out and date around and see whats out there...and that line has got me more heavy makeout sessions than trying to make them a priority. They dont call me back? No biggie, Ill go find another. Until one comes at ME and sits me down and says hey, I want us to be something more, I try to stay as unemotionally present as possible.

 

Be confident, know what you want, and remember YOU come first! The second you put her on a pedestal its over..shes got you by the balls lol. Sure I had a lot of rejections but it takes practice...and every message to a girl is different. I dont think fast on my feet (something im trying to work on) and it sometimes takes me a minute to come up with something original

[bluestealth]

I do live in the country about 30 miles from a decent sized city so that probably doesn't help my chances. I've messaged around 100 different women in the 3 months I've been doing OLD. I'm not sure how that compares to others. I'd be nice to hear from some women on this. Some here are saying to ask them out right away without even talking, but I read on other threads where women like to get to know someone first. To me if someone is serious and interested they won't mind exchanging a few messages and talking. It all seems like a ridiculous game to me. Maybe it's different for someone looking for something serious and long-term. I'm only into dating someone if marriage is the ultimate goal.

Edited July 29, 2014 by bluestealth

[normal person]

I do live in the country about 30 miles from a decent sized city so that probably doesn't help my chances.

 

That's probably obliterating your chances. You can't expect to meet girls when there are no girls around you. In a normal city I'm sure you'd do fine.

[Mrin]

Agreed. Try just changing your location to the center of said decent sized city and see what happens. I live 110 miles from a city but go there all the time for pleasure and work. My profile location is there not here. When women ask me where I live in said city - I tell them The Westin. So far I've been told that's more of a plus than a negative. Good beds at the Westins...

[KatZee]

I'm with ktya - OLD works like a champ. Like an ATM for women.

 

Other things: avoid all that PUA crap. In my experience, most decent women on OLD are get this, looking to actually meet a genuine man.

 

 

This thread is vomit worthy and I'm deleting my OLD account within the next 3 minutes.

 

An ATM for women? But you're looking to bait someone looking for something genuine?

 

Disgusting.

 

This mentality seriously ruins OLD for ACTUAL genuine men looking for a quality woman, and now I wouldn't even know who to trust at all on that thing.

Edited July 30, 2014 by KatZee

[aprilisi]

This thread....wow. Just wow. You guys disgust me.

 

I'm seriously depressed now.

[mattny]

Ive kept it honest the whole time. I make it a point before things get heavy to make sure they understand that 'im not looking for anything serious'. If they want to continue, then by all means. If they say 'im looking for something a little more serious and long term', hey thats fine. I dont bash them for it, and a lot have still hung around as friends that I enjoy talking to. Ive had women call me scum over my career, over the fact I like guns, and some other assorted nonsense...my only response 'im sorry you feel that way, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. Wish you the best '

[bu2002]

You need pictures with clear shots and good lighting.

 

Opening message needs to spark a slight emotional reaction out of them. Ask them a fun question, tease them, make a playful accusation, or anything that would get a smirk out of her or rile her up.

 

Your profile needs to show not tell. Provide examples, and paint a picture of the two of you hanging out.

[bluestealth]

Agreed. Try just changing your location to the center of said decent sized city and see what happens. I live 110 miles from a city but go there all the time for pleasure and work. My profile location is there not here. When women ask me where I live in said city - I tell them The Westin. So far I've been told that's more of a plus than a negative. Good beds at the Westins...

 

Well, I'm not really into putting a false location but I do expand my searches so it covers the city. Most of my messages go to women there but maybe they think I'm too far away; who knows since no one ever tells you why they disappear. I'm sure my selection is limited overall though since I'm not in a major city. That's why I'm on four different dating sites.

 

On a positive note, I just finished up an awesome chat with a girl on OKC. There was a total of 7 messages with most of them several sentences long all within an hour. After her second response I suggested we move things to text. She said fine and gave me her first name but didn't leave her number. I replied with my number if she wanted to text sometime, so I guess it's up to her now. I felt like I handled that pretty good.

[HappyLove]

This thread....wow. Just wow. You guys disgust me.

 

I'm seriously depressed now.

 

Shouldn't be a surprise AT ALL. Men are playing women like the ATM, as mentioned here, with OLDing. All they have to do is ACT like they are interested for a few texts. Show up for 2 dates and women feel the "connection" think he's the one. Every week here you see women wondering why the guy went poof 90% of the time it's was from OLDing. I'm glad the men on this thread are being so honest. Maybe some women will finally open their eyes to how horribly they are being played with OLDing.

 

Start the countdown for the inevitable....well I met the love of my life there blah blah blah. Good for you! The TRUTH is the VAST majority of women are being played for fools online.

 

It's now just a big ol mess for men & women. Too many games and deceitful people have ruined it.

[ascendotum]

...Maybe some women will finally open their eyes to how horribly they are being played with OLDing.

 

It's now just a big ol mess for men & women. Too many games and deceitful people have ruined it.

 

The games & flaking & deceit goes both ways. The more options a male or female has online the more inclined they will be to do this imo.

 

As for women being played, yes plenty are, but also plenty are having a lot of fun bonking good looking players. First date sex is the more the norm for the successful OLD guys I know (so they say), and the women are not dippy teens. They know what they are doing. Still for LT relationship minded women they need to be savvy when it comes to guys that appear a little too good to be true. Still lots of guys who are not obvious players have jumped on that bandwagon I reckon after getting disillusioned with finding a decent girl for a gf and hearing tales of how much action their more desirable friends are getting.