OLD The truth about what really works for guys.

[Anela]

Yeah... I don't think thats even possible. I think we can all agree OLD has a large population of men that pursue a small population of women. This doesn't just remain this way. Guys slowly expand their parameters until they find someone they like.

 

Girls could in theory do the same (I don't know, I've never been one) But if your average decently looking female gets 20 to 50 messages DAILY, like I've heard from some women on LS, then you would not really need to broaden your standards. In fact, you could narrow it down to near perfection, if you were so inclined.

 

From what I've seen, guys message the women they find to be hot, and are put off by messages from women they find unattractive. I've seen posts here from men who claimed to have contacted a large number of very attractive women - they weren't focusing on a few, and then moving on from there, maybe giving a chance to a woman they hadn't initially wanted to date. They received attention from the women they had no interest in.

 

I was rarely messaged by men that I was interested in; most ignored what I had to say in my profile, regarding age preferences and other things.

[mattny]

I have not seen one example of this. In fact, everything I have seen has been the exact opposite. Every guy I know who used OLD either decided to lower his standards just to get laid, or gave up altogether.

 

Im gonna poke holes in this all day. I dont lower my standards. Ive been myself, struck up great conversation and been on plenty of dates with some amazing people! I attract what I want to attract. Havent given up at all, in-fact im only getting started. So all that rubbish about dating down to get sex may be true for some guys, but not for me. I dont NEED sex. I have plenty on my plate to manage just fine without it.

 

So to all the ladies out there...we good guys do exist ;-)

[Keenly]

From what I've seen, guys message the women they find to be hot, and are put off by messages from women they find unattractive. I've seen posts here from men who claimed to have contacted a large number of very attractive women - they weren't focusing on a few, and then moving on from there, maybe giving a chance to a woman they hadn't initially wanted to date. They received attention from the women they had no interest in.

 

I was rarely messaged by men that I was interested in; most ignored what I had to say in my profile, regarding age preferences and other things.

 

 

I can't say what anyone elses experiences are, but I message women I find even moderately attractive, as long as they have something in their profile I can use to start a conversation. I've sent messages to allllll kinds of women, from all over the board.

 

In the almost 2 years of OLD I've been on and off doing, and my friends 1 year (whom I've heard a few girls say he is attractive) I've only seen 4 girls send the first message. 4!

 

If a girl sent me a first message that could actually turn into a conversation, I'd be all over it. I'd want to know about this girl that was not afraid to take a chance and message some one that THEY found interesting, rather than waiting for the some one interesting to come to them.

[Keenly]

Im gonna poke holes in this all day. I dont lower my standards. Ive been myself, struck up great conversation and been on plenty of dates with some amazing people! I attract what I want to attract. Havent given up at all, in-fact im only getting started. So all that rubbish about dating down to get sex may be true for some guys, but not for me. I dont NEED sex. I have plenty on my plate to manage just fine without it.

 

So to all the ladies out there...we good guys do exist ;-)

 

 

That's awesome that you have had success, it really is, but what does anything you posted have to do with being a "good guy" ?

[normal person]

In the almost 2 years of OLD I've been on and off doing, and my friends 1 year (whom I've heard a few girls say he is attractive) I've only seen 4 girls send the first message. 4!

 

I'm a bit skeptical. I've gotten 4 in the last 90 minutes. I've been out with ~30 girls in the last year or so and they all initiated contact. My other guy friend does OLD on and off and he doesn't send messages either. The other night I even heard a girl own up to the fact that she sends generic copied and pasted messages to multiple guys at a time. Women are online often with the same intentions as guys. If what they want doesn't come to them, they're going to go to it.

 

Granted, I live in the middle of NYC. To all the struggling guys with no messages, do you live in small towns or what? Size of the dating pool will be a huge factor. Assuming all your profiles and pictures aren't off putting, consider this: if there are only 5000 women using OLD in your town, of whom maybe 2000 are in the desired age range, of whom maybe 100 you find attractive, of whom maybe 10 also find you attractive... that leaves with 10 girls. And girls only message first a fraction of the time anyways. So if these hypothetical demographics match your situation, I would expect not to get any messages as a statistical likelihood. It's not necessarily an issue with the people or the technology, it's your circumstances.

[jay1983]

I'm a bit skeptical. I've gotten 4 in the last 90 minutes. I've been out with ~30 girls in the last year or so and they all initiated contact. My other guy friend does OLD on and off and he doesn't send messages either. The other night I even heard a girl own up to the fact that she sends generic copied and pasted messages to multiple guys at a time. Women are online often with the same intentions as guys. If what they want doesn't come to them, they're going to go to it.

 

It's getting harder and harder to take you seriously.

[RedRobin]

pretty much everything on kyta's list is how I screen out guys looking for what he's looking for. lol.

 

 

He's clearly screening for women who have lower standards, naïve, have low self-esteem, or are also into casual sex. That's fine. People's idea of 'success' is different.

 

 

It's well known that Tinder, OKC, and POF is mostly where people go for hookups, no matter what they say on their profile... if they don't know those are the places for hookups, they'll quickly find out.

 

 

There are other sites for people who are looking for relationships... and it involves $$.

 

 

Long story short... OLD should never be taken seriously. By anyone, no matter what they are looking for. For God's sake... Have a life outside of OLD and treat it like a backup plan or just one more way to meet people.

[normal person]

It's getting harder and harder to take you seriously.

 

 

My inbox 9-11pm. Talkmatch is Match.com.

 

Note the times on the right. I don't have any reason to feed you a bunch of BS. I've been doing OLD for over a year, I could show you dozens more pages of this stuff. You can believe the things I say here or not, I don't really care, but I do like getting to the bottom of stuff and helping people. I think perhaps it's a bit comforting for them to take advice from someone who can prove who he knows what he's talking about. Take it or leave it.

 

This is why I think when guys say they don't get messaged they either live in an impossibly small town or have something fundamentally wrong with their profile.

Edited August 1, 2014 by normal person

[RonaldS]

It's getting harder and harder to take you seriously.

 

I don't know him, but I believe him. I refuse to message women, and if I wanted to have a date every day, I could probably do it. I've met tons of women, and they all messaged me first. And we're not talking ugly, average, or even just sorta cute women. Talking about attractive, educated, successful women.

 

Sometimes it's just shooting fish in a barrel.

[Anela]

I can't say what anyone elses experiences are, but I message women I find even moderately attractive, as long as they have something in their profile I can use to start a conversation. I've sent messages to allllll kinds of women, from all over the board.

 

In the almost 2 years of OLD I've been on and off doing, and my friends 1 year (whom I've heard a few girls say he is attractive) I've only seen 4 girls send the first message. 4!

 

If a girl sent me a first message that could actually turn into a conversation, I'd be all over it. I'd want to know about this girl that was not afraid to take a chance and message some one that THEY found interesting, rather than waiting for the some one interesting to come to them.

 

I messaged men on there. I sent out quite a few messages, and responded to those who wrote to me.

[jay1983]

I messaged men on there. I sent out quite a few messages, and responded to those who wrote to me.

 

Didn't you say you keep your profile visitor feature turned off so the guys that message you wouldn't know whether or not you viewed their profile?

[Andy_K]

I have noticed that using OLD has raised women's expectations exponentially. In the real world I have a much better chance at attracting decent, dateable women. Online, I got ignored a lot, went on a couple pointless dates, wasted time on some flakes, and met a couple FWB. Not worth it.

 

I saw a study somewhere which proposed a theory that explained this really neatly, using speed dating for their data. Essentially it worked like this:

 

- men have a constant standard of what they find attractive and desirable. When more desirable women were put in a speed dating group, more men picked them. When fewer were, they picked less matches.

 

- women didn't work like that. They had variable standards which depended on the men available. Regardless of the composition of the group, the women would always pick just the top two or three guys. When they thought their pickings were better, their standards went up, when they thought their pickings were worse, they went down.

 

Same thing is happening online and this is why it is getting harder for guys. The bigger and more popular online dating gets, the more guys are 'available', and the higher the girls standards go!

[irc333]

Good point, that's why I've always kept seeing the same women/faces online in my area across all the dating sites on the same sites for years.

 

Of course, I've messaged them in the past, with obviously out a response, but it's amazing how they become a permanent fixture in online dating. lol

 

 

I saw a study somewhere which proposed a theory that explained this really neatly, using speed dating for their data. Essentially it worked like this:

 

- men have a constant standard of what they find attractive and desirable. When more desirable women were put in a speed dating group, more men picked them. When fewer were, they picked less matches.

 

- women didn't work like that. They had variable standards which depended on the men available. Regardless of the composition of the group, the women would always pick just the top two or three guys. When they thought their pickings were better, their standards went up, when they thought their pickings were worse, they went down.

 

Same thing is happening online and this is why it is getting harder for guys. The bigger and more popular online dating gets, the more guys are 'available', and the higher the girls standards go!

[PegNosePete]

Why should someone have to change their profile to meet someone online? Isn't your profile supposed to be an honest description of who you are as a person? Are you suggesting people lie on their profile to get dates?

NO not at all! A profile is an advertisement - for you.

 

When a car company advertise their product, do they say "it's got 4 wheels, an engine, a trunk and headlights. It's made of metal and it's blue"? Would you buy that car?

 

No, they show the car perfectly clean, top down, driving on an empty coastal road at sunset filmed with sweeping arcs from a helicopter. They have evocative classical music playing in the background and a snappy, memorable slogan.

 

Did they lie? No, they just advertised it better. I'm not suggesting people lie on their profiles... just advertise themselves better.

 

When I read through LS forums, I don't see a lot of happy stories here. I see a lot of threads about cheating girlfriends and wives, boyfriends who disappear suddenly, and even a few abusive spouses.

Well yeah. It's a relationship advice forum. People in happy relationships don't need advice so they don't make threads. When I first came here - like most of us, probably - it was because my ex-wife was cheating, and I made a new thread for that. Now I am in a happy relationship but I haven't made any threads about it. Why would I?

 

I used to use OLD years ago, and it was totally different back then. A lot more laid back and much easier to meet decent women.

I don't know how it was years ago but things change. You need to evolve your methods along with them. I can tell you that it's perfectly possible to meet decent women now, if you have the right skills (which come with practice). I must've met around 30 over the last year and every single one of them was decent. Of course they weren't all a good match for me but they were all decent, interesting, mostly good looking, serious women looking for a genuine guy and relationship. Now if it had been 3 or 4 then I might simply say I've been lucky... but it's too many for that. Either I'm just good at it, or everyone else is bad. I'm happy to share my experiences and methodologies but it's amazing how few are prepared to listen, preferring instead to think that because they have failed, the whole thing doesn't work. Oh well, their loss.

Edited August 1, 2014 by PegNosePete

[mattny]

That's awesome that you have had success, it really is, but what does anything you posted have to do with being a "good guy" ?

 

Because apparently some people believe here that all guys on OLD lower their standards and lie through their nose just to get laid and throw the general assumption blanket over everyone. And how I see it, that is completely untrue.

[Diezel]

Good point, that's why I've always kept seeing the same women/faces online in my area across all the dating sites on the same sites for years.

 

Of course, I've messaged them in the past, with obviously out a response, but it's amazing how they become a permanent fixture in online dating. lol

 

 

Funny you say that.

Back in 2009 I was slightly overweight and looked different. Messaged a bunch of girls from my area, no response.

 

2013, things changed, go back on the website, most of them were still there and completely active. Newer pictures were up. Guess it's a constant cycle. Except then, they were messaging me. No response.

[jay1983]

NO not at all! A profile is an advertisement - for you.

 

When a car company advertise their product, do they say "it's got 4 wheels, an engine, a trunk and headlights. It's made of metal and it's blue"? Would you buy that car?

 

No, they show the car perfectly clean, top down, driving on an empty coastal road at sunset filmed with sweeping arcs from a helicopter. They have evocative classical music playing in the background and a snappy, memorable slogan.

 

Did they lie? No, they just advertised it better. I'm not suggesting people lie on their profiles... just advertise themselves better.

 

 

Even if you get you do that right and get a good looking girl to meet you, she gonna find out I'm not much different. We all work at least 8 hours, then a lot of us workout after work. After that the it's late and we go to bed and prepare for tomorrow. If there's something going on over the weekend great, that's to say if I'm free, I usually have my son on either friday or saturday. Or sometimes I get hit with some unexpected bills and that eat up my spending money. It's not like, I get to go hang gliding every weekend. It's the same for them, they have boring pics and generic profiles. Most of what I described about me is the same for them and I understand that.

 

In the past I've dated about 4 girls that would get upset if I wasn't taking them out and entertaining them. These girls keep looking for excitement. It's a game I don't wanna play anymore.

 

BTW you make a really good argument.

Edited August 1, 2014 by jay1983

[jay1983]

Well yeah. It's a relationship advice forum. People in happy relationships don't need advice so they don't make threads. When I first came here - like most of us, probably - it was because my ex-wife was cheating, and I made a new thread for that. Now I am in a happy relationship but I haven't made any threads about it. Why would I?

 

.

 

I gotta go with enigma on this. Not because we agree online dating blows, but because most relationships are crap. It's usually one person trying really hard to please the other and/or one/or both complaining their butts off.

Edited August 1, 2014 by jay1983

[mattny]

I gotta go with enigma on this. Not because we agree online dating blows, but because most relationships are crap. It's usually one person trying really hard to please the other and/or one/or both complaining their butts off.

 

Most relationships are crap? Cmon bro you gotta have a better excuse than that. I have some really good friends who met OLD and they are getting married later this year. And they are perfect for each other. Both work, have their own hobbies, spend some nights out with the 'boys' or 'girls'. But they also steadily work to improve their relationship. Its not always easy but nothing successful came from sitting on your ass.

 

If anyone thinks 'well after the first date shes gonna realize im not much different than any other guy' well guess what, youre looking for love in all the wrong places. It shouldnt be about trying to really please the other. Both should work equally as hard. If women OR men are gonna pull the 'he/she doesnt take me out all the time and spend money on me', then youre dating for all the wrong reasons.

 

If someone doesnt wanna be with me cuse Im broke, well then good for you. I know where IM going in life. And if you want to reap the rewards later on then come along for the ride. But dont try to jump on the bandwagon when I make it and be all 'oh i wanna date you now'...i dont have time for that fakeness.

[jay1983]

I'm gonna go ahead reply to you respectfully even though it's obvious you're trying really hard to look good on here.

 

Most relationships are crap? Cmon bro you gotta have a better excuse than that.

 

Excuse for what?

 

I have some really good friends who met OLD and they are getting married later this year. And they are perfect for each other. Both work, have their own hobbies, spend some nights out with the 'boys' or 'girls'.

 

You know marriage is down and 50% of the people who do marry end up divorcing, right?

 

If anyone thinks 'well after the first date shes gonna realize im not much different than any other guy' well guess what, youre looking for love in all the wrong places. It shouldnt be about trying to really please the other. Both should work equally as hard. If women OR men are gonna pull the 'he/she doesnt take me out all the time and spend money on me', then youre dating for all the wrong reasons.

 

It doesn't happen on the first date. It happens after she gets to know you and then another guy sends her a message.

Both should work equally as hard. If women OR men are gonna pull the 'he/she doesnt take me out all the time and spend money on me', then youre dating for all the wrong reasons.

 

What you're doing here is you're telling how it should be. How it should be and the way it is are two completely different things.

 

If someone doesnt wanna be with me cuse Im broke, well then good for you. I know where IM going in life. And if you want to reap the rewards later on then come along for the ride. But dont try to jump on the bandwagon when I make it and be all 'oh i wanna date you now'...i dont have time for that fakeness.

 

I'm already where I wanna be in life. You can never make enough money, you'll always be on some kinda budget. I make good money, have my own place, drive a BMW and take care of my son. Watch what happens when you start making more money. Basically you get more bills and on top of that, all the sudden sh*t starts coming up.

Edited August 1, 2014 by jay1983

[isisisweeping]

At that point, would we consider OLD a success for them?

 

 

If we only consider marriage until they die the only successful measure of a relationship, then human relationships are in general very unsuccessful and perhaps we should all just give up seeking in general and forge forward solo. When asked if they are pleased with their experience, there are people saying yes, although you are discounting those apparently for no other reason because it doesn't match your preconceptions and confidently asserting that THIS is the way it is despite any evidence to the contrary.

 

My marriage that started online ended eventually. I was still happy I had that relationship. One ex boyfriend I am happy I had the relationship, another ex boyfriend I am not- although I met neither of those online.

 

What exactly are your expectations and how do you define success?