Hear ya knockin' but ya can't come in.

[MassiveAtom]

SO essentially the trust will return once all the healing is done. The risk will be worth taking, and I'll want to fall backwards again?

 

Am I getting this right?

[Merin]

Originally posted by MassiveAtom

SO essentially the trust will return once all the healing is done. The risk will be worth taking, and I'll want to fall backwards again?

 

Am I getting this right?

 

:Merin is now starting to feel like she's been burning a little to much insense:

 

 

I hope one day you'll be able to trust again MA.. Psshh I hope one day I'll be able to trust 110% again (I have my doubts regarding me)

 

The risk in trusting and loving someone else is always there.. no matter how much time seems to go by.. but yeah I would like to think I've gotten better at the benefit of the doubt..

 

I don't know if anyone ever WANTS to fall backwards.. but I do believe that most everyone NEEDS to know that IF they do.. there's going to be someone there that has thier back without question..

 

IMO Trust is something that someone earns.. all of the time..

[blind_otter]

I dunno.

 

I don't think you ever "get over it" per se - learn how to live with it, deal with it, whatever, but the memory of betrayal will always be there.

 

I had my heart broken into little pieces and then I ground the pieces into the carpet. It will take a lifetime to heal.

[Lil Honey]

Originally posted by MassiveAtom

SO essentially the trust will return once all the healing is done. The risk will be worth taking, and I'll want to fall backwards again?

 

Am I getting this right?

 

Yes, I believe trust does return.

 

 

Originally posted by blind_otter

 

I don't think you ever "get over it" per se - learn how to live with it, deal with it, whatever, but the memory of betrayal will always be there.

 

I don’t think one gets over it, but it might not be something that is supposed to be overcome. I think it is a life lesson, one that makes us cautious and makes us think things through next time. Maybe we are chosen to learn (or be reminded) of trust’s value for an unknown reason.

 

Well . . . it’s a “pretty” thought anyway. LOL

[MassiveAtom]

Yikes, that may be part of it too, getting the parameters of my new life set up, getting accustomed to them, seeing where the opportunities are to let someone in, and then finding a fit.

 

After enough healing is done (nod to otter), then I'll be able to choose to trust again.(nod to Merin) That's when I'll accept the risk involved in the possibility of a new fall, but if it happens and she catches me, I'll begin rebuilding my ability to trust by finding I can trust her. It's a leap of faith and you just have to be READY to take one of those.

 

Wow, Hey that feels like it might be right.

 

Gotta mull it about in the ol' cranium now.

[Devildog]

Man, I got alot of catching up to do with this thread.

 

Merin, sorry to break your heart darling. But yes, it was meant as a compliment. I have always wanted to respond to your signature line. "What's it gonna take to get you in slow motion with me?" Just ask!!!!!

 

Yikes, after talking with MA I am convinced there would only be one picture from the 3 of us. She has to be the same woman. Tooooooo many eerie similarities. But the t-shirts would only need one picture

 

So ladies, is the need for a guy to trust a big deal in your opinions? My mindset right now is I have no problem letting a woman close and into my heart, but I am not sure I will open myself up very much emotionally. Not to the deepest darkest recesses of my heart, not for a very long time. It will take a very strong, devoted woman to get to that point. Am I asking too much?

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Devildog

So ladies, is the need for a guy to trust a big deal in your opinions? My mindset right now is I have no problem letting a woman close and into my heart, but I am not sure I will open myself up very much emotionally. Not to the deepest darkest recesses of my heart, not for a very long time. It will take a very strong, devoted woman to get to that point. Am I asking too much?

 

For me, it is. But I think that's an individual thing - although I venture to guess that if you approach relationships using the same behavioral and reactive patterns that you did previously, you will most likely attract the same type of woman all over again....perhaps you boys get on so well (at least on here) because of similar personality traits, and a similar habit of attracting the same kind of woman??

 

Funny you say you need a strong woman. My good friend Brian always tells me it will take a very strong man to "deal with" me. He always says he could handle me if he wanted to but he's not really up for a long, drawn out battle. hahaha. Well my Dad always said, anything worth having is worth fighting for.

 

I don't think you're asking too much. I think, in fact, a lot of us got to this point because we gave too much while asking for too little. At least that is how I feel.

 

*sigh*. I'm feeling a bit low today.

[Devildog]

There are alot of dark places in my heart. And the experience with my STBXW added a few new ones and darkened the ones that were there. It will be a slow revealing process for my next relationship. I don't feel I have any "issues" that need to be worked through, just alot of experiences that might be overwhelming if unloaded at once.

[Devildog]

perhaps you boys get on so well (at least on here) because of similar personality traits, and a similar habit of attracting the same kind of woman??

 

Sometimes I wonder if I black out and post under a different name when I read Yikes and MA's posts. And I still have no proof that we all weren't married to an extradimensional demon who could transport between us..

[Merin]

Originally posted by blind_otter

I don't think you're asking too much. I think, in fact, a lot of us got to this point because we gave too much while asking for too little. At least that is how I feel.

 

I agree with that 110% Otter..

 

In my last relationship I gave, he took.. I gave more.. he took more.

Eventually I didn't have anything more to give, and really I stopped wanting to.

 

DevilDog~ Trust for me is a huge thing.. It's hard for me to trust.. and the funny thing is (so hypocritical of me I know) Yes, I need the person I'm with to trust me.. Blind faith is trusting in something you cannot see.. and that is very hard for me.. but I'm working on it

I do think eventually when you meet someone that blows your mind (you know the kind of person you sit and question.. is this real? ) that although you may give them a little of you.. you are reserved.. because you've changed.. you may not tell that person everything your feeling out of fear.. and you may not trust that IF you tell them they won't hurt you.. so you keep it to yourself.. but eventually I believe blind faith will begin to reveal itself to you and you'll know if this person is worth taking that leap for again.. only this time it's a matter of trusting YOURSELF to know the difference between what's real, what isn't.. and listening to the voice in your head for whats going to make you happy.. not talking yourself into *believing* that this one will do.. does that make sense?

"Whats it going to take to get you to come in slow motion with me?" that could be a whole nother thread!

 

MA.. Yes.. I believe you got what me and Otter were saying.. LOL I'm sorry I think a lot of things make sense and I try to explain them as they go on in my mind.. only to read back through it later and wonder WTF!? Where was I going with that?

 

Yikes.. LOL I just like your SN! The simple life.. eventually you'll find someone worth shaking things up a bit for.. (in a good way)

[Devildog]

Merin, it makes perfect sense. I just don't know if I can ever trust that voice in my head when it says it is okay to open up to this person. She isn't going to hurt you. I heard that voice before and it got me a world of hurt for listening. I guess my question is are there some guidlines to look for to tell you this person is on the level, she won't hurt you? Lot of BS artists out there and it isn't easy to tell the frauds from the genuine article.

 

Whole nother thread on what it takes to get into slow motion with Merin huh? That could be a riot there!

[rble618740]

I think this discussion is great and useful. I don't think I have that much to add, but the problem solver in me can't help but make suggestions and note some observations.

 

Along the line of suggestions, I think it might provide some security to - while you are not in a relationship - set up some boundaries for your future relationships. Put them on paper. Write them almost as a promise to yourself. And...stick to them. If you determine that you are not going to let someone become financially dependent on your again unless you decide to get married down the road, the first time your new girlfriend asks for a loan, tell her "no." Explain to her that when your marriage didn't work out, you decided you were going to set some parameters for future relationships and one of them was to not get involved in someone else's finances unless you were married. It has nothing to do with her - she wasn't even in the picture when you made the decision. It's just a boundary that you set for yourself. If you feel like your ex-wife took advantage of you financially, but setting this boundary, you can put some of your fears to rest about the same issue in your future relationships. If you feel week, look at what you've written and remind yourself that you wrote this while you weren't in a relationship with someone and if you stray, you're likely the one who's going to wind up hurt. One caveat: make these boundaries reasonable. You will never be happy if you're too defensive to love and enjoy someone else's company.

 

Second, by way of observation, I see that some of the posters have kinda' blended insecurity and trust. I view these differently. Insecurity, in the dictionary of my mind, is self-focused. Trust - on the other hand, focuses on someone else. To that end, as a woman, I'm more likely to tolerate insecurity than I am lack of trust. If you're unsure of your footing because of your experiences, I can relate to that and can be understanding. If you don't trust me, and there's no basis for that lack of trust except for someone's actions that I don't even know, I think the prognosis is bad. Honestly, my integrity is extremely important to me and I wouldn't tolerate being questioned and treated as untrustworthy for very long.

 

A little advice, make sure in your interactions in future relationships that you don't frame your difficulty in opening up as a lack of trust, but instead as your own insecurity based on your past pain and experiences. I think taking responsibility for the shakiness will go a long with with future female friends.

 

Just one lady's opinion.

[Israfil]

Originally posted by Devildog

I just don't know if I can ever trust that voice in my head when it says it is okay to open up to this person. She isn't going to hurt you. I heard that voice before and it got me a world of hurt for listening. I guess my question is are there some guidlines to look for to tell you this person is on the level, she won't hurt you? Lot of BS artists out there and it isn't easy to tell the frauds from the genuine article.

 

Oh, I hear you loud and clear, DD. I don't think there are any guidelines. If there were, whoever thought of them would be a millionaire!

 

What makes me constantly question, after having been scathed in the recent past – no, make that burned beyond recognition – is that I couldn’t see beyond the deceptions. I took what he said for sincerity. Yet it was all a pack of lies.

 

But I wonder what it is really that we are scared of giving up? I can't put my finger on what I am afraid of.... What did we loose in the past that has made us so fearful?

 

Perspectives anyone?

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Israfil

But I wonder what it is really that we are scared of giving up? I can't put my finger on what I am afraid of.... What did we loose in the past that has made us so fearful?

 

Perspectives anyone?

 

I lost my faith in the ultimate goodness of humanity. I realized that not everyone tries hard, or fights for what is right or for what they really want or what they believe in. I learned that some people have no morals.

 

I learned that love isn't enough to keep a relationship going.

 

I lost my ability to see clearly, eveything is slightly peppered with a vague depression.

 

I am disillusioned. I wish for someone to prove me wrong, to show me that there IS something worth fighting for. That *I* am worth fighting for.

[Yikes]

rble618740... Great post!

 

If there is one thing that I promised myself, it was that I would do my absolute best NOT to punish any new woman in my life for the sins of my ex. I would expect the same in return. Actually I am a big believer in "You will always have my complete and unfettered trust UNTIL you prove that you cannot be trusted". If you mess up, then you need to EARN my trust back.

 

My kids know that this is my philosophy, and they are fine with it. Fortunately they are great kids and I love them to pieces, they do well in school, are respectful... basically no worries there at all.

 

But, if a woman ever cheats on me again - that's it, right then, right there. Done. Finished. No do-overs.

 

I've also decided that I do not want another woman even remotely like my ex wife. I'm looking at the other end of the personality scale all together.

 

I have never been a real confident sort (this goes right back to my childhood) and am very hard on myself. The difference now as opposed to when I was younger is that I am smarter and more experienced now. I am counting on this to guide me into a better future relationship.

 

You ladies have brought such wonderful insight into this thread. Thanks loads.

[rble618740]

Yikes - you sound like you have your head on straight. Good for you! Thanks for the compliment on my post. It had lots of typos, but I'm at work so I didn't get a chance to proofread.

[MassiveAtom]

Rble, Excellent observation. And thanks again. You're one of the good ones!

 

Originally posted by blind_otter

I lost my faith in the ultimate goodness of humanity. I realized that not everyone tries hard, or fights for what is right or for what they really want or what they believe in. I learned that some people have no morals.

I felt the same way for about two months otter, but no one else's morals really matter as much to me as mine. If I lead with my SELF, I can change the world. So can you .

I learned that love isn't enough to keep a relationship going.

Certainly seems like it. I think there's a depth of understanding about what love can do if applied with vision and determination by both people involved in a relationship, that can indeed make it enough. But then again, I'm still very idealistic.

I lost my ability to see clearly, everything is slightly peppered with a vague depression.

Know THAT feeling all too well. Until yesterday. I had some help for sure, (nod to rble) and I eased into a shift in perspective that literally changed the world right in front of my eyes. well, more like IN my eyes.

I am disillusioned. I wish for someone to prove me wrong, to show me that there IS something worth fighting for. That *I* am worth fighting for.

 

We all know that IS the reality of you otter, but the only person who can PROVE that to you, is you. We'll all help, but you have to take that leap of faith, and trust yourself.

 

MA

[Israfil]

Originally posted by Yikes

rble618740... Great post!

 

Indeed! You are wise. help us emotional infants?!

 

Originally posted by blind_otter

I lost my faith in the ultimate goodness of humanity. I realized that not everyone tries hard, or fights for what is right or for what they really want or what they believe in. I learned that some people have no morals.

 

I learned that love isn't enough to keep a relationship going.

 

I lost my ability to see clearly, eveything is slightly peppered with a vague depression.

 

I am disillusioned. I wish for someone to prove me wrong, to show me that there IS something worth fighting for. That *I* am worth fighting for.

 

I'm right there with you, blind. *sigh*

 

Similar to you, Yikes, I swore that I would never tolerate another person lying to me. What happened in the next relationship? He lied. I forgave. He lied more. I forgave. I think I have finally had enough. I'm weak. I need to be strong, rble, and follow your advice.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by MassiveAtom

We all know that IS the reality of you otter, but the only person who can PROVE that to you, is you. We'll all help, but you have to take that leap of faith, and trust yourself.

 

MA

 

 

AW, thanks. I know it's up to me to value myself enough to know I am worth fighting for. I used to lament that nice guys (versus the neadethals I've dated) are just not attracted to me. My friend Briand said, no, you only notice the neanderthals because that's the type of man you seek out. I realized lately that the choices I've made are part and parcel of how I got here today.

 

So I've been trying to date the exact opposite of what I'm attracted to. And that's the problem, my interest "peters out". Of course I mistake nice guys all the time, they end up being bitter and neurotic just like I am.

 

Maybe I just shouldn't date at all for a while. But I like having a full social calendar. But I attract weirdos and obsessive freaks and individuals with thick brain cases. But I still want to spend time with a male companion, if only to smell him . But I have self-esteem issues.

 

snarf.

[Mz. Pixie]

A shape shifter is what I say!

 

For me, trust is a big issue as well. While I understand that my bf may have issues with trusting me 100 percent in situations where his ex wife cheated (girls night out etc) I expect him to trust me until I give him a reason not to.

 

This is the deal- while every one of us get imprints on us from events in our life not trusting me for something someone else has done is like putting me in jail for a crime I didn't committ.

 

I can understand the imprints left I just do not want to be punished for them.

[Yikes]

Originally posted by Merin

 

Yikes.. LOL I just like your SN! The simple life.. eventually you'll find someone worth shaking things up a bit for.. (in a good way)

 

SN? Screen name? Yikes just seemed appropriate.

 

Yikes!! was the first thing that ran through my mind as I read that letter that my ex wrote to her BF. Quickly followed by a long barrage of very colorful expletives. (once I caught my breath that is - I swear that I couldn't breathe for at least 10 minutes)

[Mz. Pixie]

Merin-

 

You blow me away sometimes! That is exactly what I was thinking!

 

This is such a great thread!

 

In addition to what's been said since my post earlier-

 

When BF and I first started getting more serious we talked about emotional needs in a relationship (I believe marriage builders has a great worksheet you can fill out- I know because I brought it home to be STBXH for us to fill out and he threw it in the garbage because he didn't have TIME he said to fill it out- guess he's got lots of time now) We both talked a bit about what our top five emotional needs are. We also talked about deal breakers in a marriage. My top emotional needs is affection/attention- his top emotional need is trust/honesty.

 

We were talking about some stuff that happened in his past and how he had been fooled as well. I said on several occasions, "I am the real deal- that is the only way I know to tell you. I am exactly what I seem to be, period" He would always say, "We'll see" In fact, I almost got we'll see engraved on his christmas present!

 

Now, he's had to eat those words so far! I think you can spend too much time worrying about what might happen that you miss WHAT is happening!

[rble618740]

To be quite honest, I'm always surprised that people are so hard on men or women who have 3 or 4 failed marriages. If you play it out to its most general terms, the pain you experience from failed marriage number 1 will not alone ensure a better marriage number 2. In fact, I believe that most people who have multiple failed marriages have probably made the same mistakes over and over. There has to be an analysis and diagnosis of what went wrong in marriage number 1, combined with some preventative efforts.

 

Otter, I'm not saying this is your situation, but think about the woman who needs to feel needed (needs to rescue someone). Husband number 1 may have been a drug addict, husband number 2 may be an alcoholic, and husband number 3 may be a compulsive gambler. Each marriage may end in divorce for different specific reasons, but isn't the real issue for this women, "Why does she need someone else to need her? Why is she so afraid just to be loved by someone who would probably be o.k. without her, but who doesn't ever want to have to find out? I can think of many individual traits that can help wreck a marriage, and the truth is, though we superficially acknowledge the trait and sometimes even appropriately diagnose it, we don't like to be alone long enough to solve the problem. So....the trait continues to permeate our future relationships.

 

You are not alone. Many people are repeatedly self-destructive in their choices of a mate. My suggestion - which, by the way I seem full of today - spend your time and efforts being whole alone, then your mate will be a compliment to you - not someone needed to complete you. He will appreciate not bearing responsibility for your happiness, and you will appreciate that you are with each other out of desire (not need). Not to delve too deeply, but maybe you should consider things in your past (I mean before your bad adult relationships) that made you feel unable to set guidelines for how you're treated and enforce them. You can't make people treat you a certain way, but you can determine who you interact with (for the most part). Sometimes, in family dynamics, people are taught that they cannot tell people "no." That, I think, carries into your adult life. Just to share, in my family, my parents were ALWAYS engaged in combat. It meant that I could never rock the boat. I find myself doing a lot of things, now, that I don't want to or that I don't think I should have to because I don't want to rock the boat. I'm getting better about it, but it never occurred to me that my family didn't honor my boundaries, so I haven't made anyone else do so. I'm not a psychologist - just a thought. It's not mean to protect yourself, it's just not good to be in "defensive mode" all the time.

[blind_otter]

I went to lunch with one of my few female friends, she's a lesbian, she's in love (after knowing this chick for a week?).

 

I was jealous, mostly of her ability to fall head over heels for someone who could burn her just as badly as her crazy ex did to her. As my psycho ex did to me.

 

I told her that and she grabbed my shoulders and shook me and said, otter, demonspawn was a total **** - what he did to you is inexcuseable not just because he smack you around, or tried to kill your friend, but because when I see you now you look so forlorn; slightly broken; obviously beat down.

 

Huh. I never realized this. I am mostly a pretty confident woman, I hold my head up relatively high. I am proud of who I am. How did I let this physically, mentally, emotionally, verbally abusive relationship destroy me so much? I don't know that I'll ever be ok.

 

I mean come on. If someone sneaks up behind me I jump and I have actually punched a few people in the stomach because I was so startled.

[b52srock]

I know I'm going to have MAJOR issues.

First of all, 42 year old, divorced, mothers of two are not really high on men's lists of who they want to date.

Second of all, while I've gone and looked at "dating" sites, I gotta say the pickin's are really slim!

My mother has said she doesn't want me to end up like her, divorced and bitter, but at this point I'm not seeing a whole lotta light at the end of the tunnel.

Besides, if there is a light at the end of the tunnel...its probably a train....