Author pureinheart Posted March 23, 2014 Author Posted March 23, 2014 That's why there's such a thing as peer review. That's why you only read peer review - nectar the stats have been crunched and recrunched by people whose mission is to attempt to find flaws in the data. You're only basing your view on your opinion, which fits your agenda. We call that "confirmation bias". Numbers and stats are skewed all of the time. No, it doesn't fit my agenda, it's just a fact. I don't trust them…sorry that's not ok with you.
Haydn Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Brilliant. John Cleese <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCyW8hkKvXc 1
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 No, 2 night stand was my fave. Are we still on topic? I knew you'd challenge me. Punk! 1
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Now you've done it! Can't help myself! http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA# LOL!! I love Monty Pyton!! 2
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Numbers and stats are skewed all of the time. No, it doesn't fit my agenda, it's just a fact. I don't trust them…sorry that's not ok with you. No, they're really not. Many are, but not all. And you can't call your opinion a fact, I'm sorry. Please Google "confirmation bias". Better wrap it up there, if that's all you've got. Cheers. 1
Author pureinheart Posted March 23, 2014 Author Posted March 23, 2014 No, they're really not. Many are, but not all. And you can't call your opinion a fact, I'm sorry. Please Google "confirmation bias". Better wrap it up there, if that's all you've got. Cheers. My point, thank you.
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 My point, thank you. So read something that isn't. This is my point. Religion, atheism, whatever, isn't the problem. Willful ignorance is. 4
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 :lmao: and http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w1IJiAXjj7k# 2
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Carl Sagan destroys creationist caller... Neil deGrasse Tyson stops a religious troll... Comedian Bill Hicks... Perfect reaction to angry Christians - YouTube 1
Grumpybutfun Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 "Violation of free will" has been brought up a few times on this thread, for different reasons. But so far, I don't see any real examples of how anyone's free will is being violated by Christians. One person mentioned that just hearing someone talk about religion was a violation of their free will. Someone else seemed to bring up the abortion/gay marriage issues. In the US, no one's free will is being violated. Abortion/gay marriage are related to the laws of our democratic nation. And when people don't like the law, they unite for a change. Which is exactly what has happened. I think it's a big stretch to say that Christians are single-handedly violating free will, especially when there are MANY secular practices that Christians are subjected to, though they may not believe in them. Examples include what is taught in the public school system, or religious symbols in connection with the state. Christians that don't like it are free to go to private schools, or promote their religion on private property. In other words, they still have free will to make choices, and live with the consequences. Also, the "violation of free will" seems much more prevalent in secularly-dominated places like China and other places in Asia. There's no doubt that Christians are the oppressed in many places around the world. Proof that there is nothing INHERENTLY oppressive about being a Christian. Then you were apparently not raised in a fanatically Christian household or have parents and community who refuse to acknowledge you unless you embrace their religion. In these sociological religious warfare places, there is no such thing as free will in religion. Many embrace religion because it is easier than thinking for themselves and being turned from their communities and families. It is easy to think if it doesn't happen to you and if it isn't spoken of, it isn't happening. It is. I grew up with it and have lived in many parts of the US when I was in the Navy where it was an accepted peer pressure, family pressure practice. Even in places less fanatic, people who think for themselves or are Athiests/ non religious are pursued for conformity as though they can't possibly know what they want or they are stupid, bound by the devil if they do,not want to be saved. It is alarming how not respecting another persons beliefs and lifestyle choices can feel invasive. I am not saying you do this but you must allow that there are those who do. People have free will when they aren't pressured into religion or when they are allowed out find the religion of their choice without pressure from others. It certainly seems like religion should be a choice, but to many who would lose their family, friends or community unless they conform, it doesn't feel like free will at all. Respectfully, Grumps 5
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Carl Sagan destroys creationist caller... Neil deGrasse Tyson stops a religious troll... Comedian Bill Hicks... Perfect reaction to angry Christians - YouTube I love what Carl Sagan said about the nuclear arms race: "It's like two sworn enemies standing waist-deep in gasoline, and one is holding 3 matches, the other, 5." 1
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I love what Carl Sagan said about the nuclear arms race: "It's like two sworn enemies standing waist-deep in gasoline, and one is holding 3 matches, the other, 5." Agreed. Lol! I have a lot of admiration for Carl Sagan. And did you notice how the creationist caller tried to talk over Sagan in an aggressive way, although Sagan was trying to respectfully and genuinely answer the caller's questions. That caller was looking for a fight. 2
Haydn Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws. Agreed. Lol! I have a lot of admiration for Carl Sagan. And did you notice how the creationist caller tried to talk over Sagan in an aggressive way, although Sagan was trying to respectfully and genuinely answer the caller's questions. That caller was looking for a fight. 3
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Agreed. Lol! I have a lot of admiration for Carl Sagan. And did you know the creationist caller tried to talk over Sagan in an aggressive way, although Sagan was trying to respectfully and genuinely answer the caller's questions. That caller was looking for a fight. Happens all the time. The battle is lost once you attempt to use intimidation and aggression to get a point across. The problem is, that many strident believers in religion fail to realise that just because a theory is incomplete, does not mean it is invalid. Theories are fluid, flexible, they're constantly being revisited. With the fanatically religious, you can't question their beliefs, can't respectfully debate, can't propose new possibilities. That goes completely against human nature! And I hate, hate, hate that. It makes me so frustrated. Opinion/belief is not fact. Both are prefectly valid, but please don't confuse the two. 2
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws. Well said!
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Carl Sagan on religion... Carl Sagan on Religion - YouTube
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws. Well said!! Every culture has created their own version of "god" that reflects that culture's system of morals and values. There is no man in the sky, from a hidden celestial vantage point controlling human destiny. So true. Totally agree. Happens all the time. The battle is lost once you attempt to use intimidation and aggression to get a point across. The problem is, that many strident believers in religion fail to realise that just because a theory is incomplete, does not mean it is invalid. Theories are fluid, flexible, they're constantly being revisited. With the fanatically religious, you can't question their beliefs, can't respectfully debate, can't propose new possibilities. That goes completely against human nature! And I hate, hate, hate that. It makes me so frustrated. Opinion/belief is not fact. Both are prefectly valid, but please don't confuse the two. Exactly!! Science is fallible, but it doesn't require a "designer" as Carl Sagan said. Science is about natural, evolutionary processes. Opinion and belief is not fact. Totally agree. And it's what Christians use (their opinion, based on their belief) to proselytize and to evangelize. The goal of religion is to brainwash the public; where free will and the human ego are destroyed and replaced with blind obedience. Religion removes free will and touts conformity. The Christians are like the Borg characters from Star Trek, with the same motto: "We are the Borg (We are the Christians). You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time you will service us." Edited March 23, 2014 by writergal 2
pickflicker Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Well said!! Every culture has created their own version of "god" that reflects that culture's system of morals and values. There is no man in the sky, from a hidden celestial vantage point controlling human destiny. So true. Totally agree. Exactly!! Science is fallible, but it doesn't require a "designer" as Carl Sagan said. Science is about natural, evolutionary processes. Opinion and belief is not fact. Totally agree. And it's what Christians use (their opinion, based on their belief) to proselytize and to evangelize. The goal of religion is to brainwash the public; where free will and the human ego are destroyed and replaced with blind obedience. Religion removes free will and touts conformity. The Christians are like the Borg characters from Star Trek, with the same motto: "We are the Borg (We are the Christians). You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time you will service us." I'm learning critical thinking in psychology. It has already violated some long held opinions and some point along the way, I fully expect to have an "oh sh*t" moment, followed by a complete mental breakdown. Science, bitch! 1
writergal Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 I'm learning critical thinking in psychology. It has already violated some long held opinions and some point along the way, I fully expect to have an "oh sh*t" moment, followed by a complete mental breakdown. Science, bitch! LOL! That's awesome and you should look forward to those moments. They never stop where science is concerned. My background is language arts but I grew up wanting to be either an archaeologist or geologist. 1
Allumere Posted March 23, 2014 Posted March 23, 2014 Then you were apparently not raised in a fanatically Christian household or have parents and community who refuse to acknowledge you unless you embrace their religion. In these sociological religious warfare places, there is no such thing as free will in religion. Many embrace religion because it is easier than thinking for themselves and being turned from their communities and families. It is easy to think if it doesn't happen to you and if it isn't spoken of, it isn't happening. It is. I grew up with it and have lived in many parts of the US when I was in the Navy where it was an accepted peer pressure, family pressure practice. Even in places less fanatic, people who think for themselves or are Athiests/ non religious are pursued for conformity as though they can't possibly know what they want or they are stupid, bound by the devil if they do,not want to be saved. It is alarming how not respecting another persons beliefs and lifestyle choices can feel invasive. I am not saying you do this but you must allow that there are those who do. People have free will when they aren't pressured into religion or when they are allowed out find the religion of their choice without pressure from others. It certainly seems like religion should be a choice, but to many who would lose their family, friends or community unless they conform, it doesn't feel like free will at all. Respectfully, Grumps You brought up something I think is important in that many Christians aren't of the ultra-conservative nature. When I say ultra-conservative I referring to the hard-core evangelist, Pentecostal to the over enthusiast born-agains (those that are new....believe it or not many born-agains are not handing out religious cards and can have conversations NOT focused on conversion). I would say your average Joe Christian does not fall in that category. They focus more on the message (i.e., ten commandments, don't judge, love your neighbor) vs then literal interpretation. They struggle with the Bible and the laws/things viewed as sin etc. And for every flavor Christian there is a community they can belong to, if they so choose, that aligns with what they believe verses having to "become" to be accepted. There are even progressive Christians that are gay affirming. There are Christians that believe in evolution and creationism (yes at the same time) and those that are strictly in the intelligent design camp. And trust me the arguments/debates amongst the different flavor of Christian can be just as aggressive and frustrating as between an atheist and Christian. My point to those that are frustrated or simply termed off based on experience with Christians is that one does not represent all. 4
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