Do you really hate "religion"...

[Keenly]

The thread title question pretty much answers itself with lots contents.

 

Very ironically.

[SoleMate]

There are no Atheist/Agnostic boards on LoveShack....We deserve a platform as well for our non-belief system.

There's a fundamental problem though. It's hard to rally around rejection of a belief in myths and there tends to be little posting energy there. You may as well ask why there is no forum for people who don't believe in the gods on Mount Olympus, or reject Buddha's teachings on reincarnation, or don't accept that the flying spaghetti monster has a wonderful plan for their lives.

 

Jesus almost certainly existed as a real historical figure, and the evidence suggests he was a wise, compassionate, sincere and dedicated person. However, I see no reason to believe that he was a supernatural being. Sadly, he was a real flesh and blood human being who was unjustly executed.

[Tayla]

quoting"There are no Atheist/Agnostic boards on LoveShack....We deserve a platform as well for our non-belief system."

 

You do realize that is a silly statement. For you to NOT believe, in essences makes you a beleiver. Its a matter of which side of the fence you are on.

 

You believe in essence on some stance, therefore you are a believer ....just not a religious one.

 

At the end of the day, it comes down to extremist in any form. Those who (without questioning) come off self righteous without backing up the facts with faith. There are reasons to keep distance in political, religious and social issues. Facts and faith are constantly being challenged and updated....open minds.

[KathyM]

Jesus almost certainly existed as a real historical figure, and the evidence suggests he was a wise, compassionate, sincere and dedicated person.

Yes, there is a lot of secular documentation that affirms that Jesus existed and various things about his life. People of other faiths and people of no faith acknowledge that He existed, they just don't believe that He was the Son of God.

However, I see no reason to believe that he was a supernatural being. Sadly, he was a real flesh and blood human being who was unjustly executed.

He demonstrated His divinity/power through performing many miracles while here on earth that were witnessed by His followers and many others who lived at that time. He healed the sick and disabled. Brought the dead back to life. Gave sight to the blind. Fed the masses (5,000 people) with just a few loaves of bread and fishes, which He multiplied to feed them. Walked on water. Cast out demons. Rose from the dead (which hundreds have witnessed His presence after His crucifiction and resurrection). Just to name some of His many miracles which were witnessed and documented. He fulfilled what was prophesized long before His life on earth. His lineage, His death and resurrection. That is why Christians believe He is the Son of God.

[topaMAXX]

or is the translation "Christians" only? Over the years on LS, social media and MSM I've seen a trend of hatred towards Christianity. The communication starts out with hatred for all religion/faith-based institutions, but only Christianity is spoken of. Why is this?

 

Christians are considered the "oppressors" …seriously?

 

Christians have been imposers of morality and values for many centuries.

 

The lack of values in today's world has very much to do with the decline of religion and Christianity.

[UpwardForward]

 

The lack of values in today's world has very much to do with the decline of religion and Christianity.

 

True. And running from God.

 

End result: general decline, deterioration.

[anne1707]

Christians have been imposers of morality and values for many centuries.

 

The lack of values in today's world has very much to do with the decline of religion and Christianity.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but that sounds like you think that atheists have no morality or values.

[ThaWholigan]

I am yet to define my current spiritual beliefs but I have a mixed view of religion. I don't hate it nor do I hate religious people in general at all - there is very little I hate. I do, however, have a strong dislike of people's intolerance of other people's individual spiritual path. Even when I subscribed to a religion, I never thought it wise to patronize someone with different beliefs from mine by attempting to "foist" my views at that time upon them.

 

I'm always happy to discuss religious beliefs with others and I'm less likely to be emotional about it, but I usually start to tune out when people start trying to subtly convert me .

 

It's whatever, I'm flattered in a way, but I have my path and that's that.

[pureinheart]

The difference can be illustrated by pointing to two endlessly topical issues -- abortion and gay marriage -- because support for or opposition to those issues tend to follow lines of faith. Those who oppose both on the basis of their religion are opposed to both being legal, i.e. they don't want anybody to get an abortion and they don't want gay people to be able to marry. In short, they want their beliefs to be extended to everybody, even to those who don't share them.

 

Those who are in favour of abortion rights and gay marriage have no interest in forcing those in opposition to get abortions or marry people of the same sex. They simply want those rights for themselves and for other people who want to exercise those rights. And they want to be left alone to run their lives without interference, without being picketed, without being harassed, without other people screaming in their face that they're "going to hell", etc.

 

As an atheist, I have no interest in telling you what you can or can't believe. I urge you to build all the churches you want, to pray before meals, to give 10% of your income to your church, to pass your views on to your kids, if you want to do those things. It would be wrong of me or anybody else to pass laws to prevent you from doing those things, because those are your decisions about your life. You want to be left alone to practise your faith and run your life as you see fit. No argument from me on that.

 

But, why is it that the religious tend to be so unwilling to show the same respect to non-believers?

 

Actually I'm surprised at the amount of Atheists who oppose abortion, so it may not be only a faith-based issue. As far as gay marriage, that seems to be faith-based, but I really haven't researched that.

 

We see this differently MM. Just because you don't agree with me, I don't say that you are disrespecting my rights, it's a matter of opinion. From what I see, I'm not allowed to have my opinion and the debate seems to use my faith as a reason to discredit me, saying I can't think for my self, I hide behind my faith and so on ("me" general me).

[topaMAXX]

Correct me if I am wrong but that sounds like you think that atheists have no morality or values.

 

I don't think anybody has much morality or values, atheist, Christian, or otherwise.

 

What I stated was in reference to the church's influence on society. As it declined, immorality and a general lack of respect and consideration for others increased.

[anne1707]

I don't think anybody has much morality or values, atheist, Christian, or otherwise.

 

What I stated was in reference to the church's influence on society. As it declined, immorality and a general lack of respect and consideration for others increased.

 

Ah right now I get you.

[pie2]

...since Christianity is more prevalent in the USA, and their beliefs and witnessing ideaolgies are anathema to free will and respecting others beliefs, it is natural that people find their pursuit of righteousness and judgement from them distasteful and annoying.

 

"Violation of free will" has been brought up a few times on this thread, for different reasons. But so far, I don't see any real examples of how anyone's free will is being violated by Christians. One person mentioned that just hearing someone talk about religion was a violation of their free will.

 

Someone else seemed to bring up the abortion/gay marriage issues. In the US, no one's free will is being violated. Abortion/gay marriage are related to the laws of our democratic nation. And when people don't like the law, they unite for a change. Which is exactly what has happened.

 

I think it's a big stretch to say that Christians are single-handedly violating free will, especially when there are MANY secular practices that Christians are subjected to, though they may not believe in them. Examples include what is taught in the public school system, or religious symbols in connection with the state. Christians that don't like it are free to go to private schools, or promote their religion on private property. In other words, they still have free will to make choices, and live with the consequences.

 

Also, the "violation of free will" seems much more prevalent in secularly-dominated places like China and other places in Asia. There's no doubt that Christians are the oppressed in many places around the world. Proof that there is nothing INHERENTLY oppressive about being a Christian.

[florence of suburbia]

I understand the frustration of the folks on this thread that are not Christian or are atheist. It's in the delivery people.

 

This ^^

 

Christians - If you understand that a great part of your audience (other posters on this thread) do not accept the bible as true, why do you keep quoting the bible to evidence your claims? You would need to start with a premise that we all share.

 

You can't win an argument with people who don't share your beliefs, or convince them to agree with your beliefs, by throwing out quotations from your beliefs.

 

This seems so obvious. When Christians continue to make logical points based on premises that are based in Christian faith, it comes across as though y'all just want to hear yourselves talk. Clearly you know non-Christians will not accept your starting point. If you don't know that, you seem dense. If you do know that, you seem to lack empathy by assuming we all accept X and therefore should believe Y. We don't all accept X!!!!

 

So either you're very lacking in empathy (not very Christian) or you don't understand basic logic (not very convincing).

Edited March 22, 2014 by florence of suburbia

[johan]

I think Christian evangelical types probably fail nearly 100% in their evangelism because of their crappy approach. I don't think the average person they attempt to convert feels loved and cared about and invited in nearly as much as they threatened and judged for being outside. And for good reason, I think. It comes generally from a righteous "I'm one of the blessed" superiority that grates on people's nerves and is probably not quite what Jesus had in mind.

 

I'm sure it doesn't come from the good half of their hearts nearly so much as they would have you believe, but more from pride and a lack of both humility and empathy. Their religion would lose its luster if they achieved their goal of converting everyone, because a major part of the appeal is the exclusivity and permission they feel the Almighty has granted them to judge.

 

Everyone needs to have faith in something. Even those who don't embrace religion often have faith in things that are as ethereal and unprovable as God and Christ. I think Christianity is the way to go, but I understand that to most who are looking for answers it means submission not only to God but also to a group of apparent self-righteous hypocrites who trotted up to them on their high horses completely uninvited. Most would say, "I think I would like God, but I'll pass on the whole thing if it means I have to be like you."

 

It's one thing I can say I like about Catholicism. It's ancient and well-worn so that Catholics really don't care to come at you with their fervor. It's just a part of their lives and has been since they were born. The ones who have the least perspective are the born again types.

Edited March 22, 2014 by johan

[pie2]

Everyone needs to have faith in something. Even those who don't embrace religion often have faith in things that are as ethereal and unprovable as God and Christ.

 

 

Yes! Couldn't agree more. Finally, something I can agree to .

 

 

I think Christianity is the way to go, but I understand that to most who are looking for answers it means submission not only to God...

 

 

 

 

That's awesome. And so true. Submission to anyone (even God) goes against everything we're taught, and what seems natural. We're taught that dominance, power and being better than others equals success. But once we see how broken we are (in comparison to God's perfection), it gets easier to have more patience with others who are also broken.

[pureinheart]

or is the translation "Christians" only? Over the years on LS, social media and MSM I've seen a trend of hatred towards Christianity. The communication starts out with hatred for all religion/faith-based institutions, but only Christianity is spoken of. Why is this?

 

Christians are considered the "oppressors" …seriously?

 

…is there anyone else who would care to tackle this question?

[pickflicker]

I don't think anybody has much morality or values, atheist, Christian, or otherwise.

 

What I stated was in reference to the church's influence on society. As it declined, immorality and a general lack of respect and consideration for others increased.

 

This is the problem - not religion, but ignorance. Religion perpetrated and continues to perpetrate a stunning amount of bigotry, hatred, swindling, and crime. Atheism isn't the problem. Extremism, on both sides, is the problem. The world's morals haven't declined. We just have a 24hr news cycle right now, that had to fill that time by reporting the sh*t in the world, because mostly, it taps into the voyeur in us all.

 

Look at any peer reviewed study - crime trends, world wide, are decreasing. Look at the average religion rates of prisoners in US prisons - more prisoners identify with a particular religion than identify with atheism.

[pureinheart]

I think Christian evangelical types probably fail nearly 100% in their evangelism because of their crappy approach. I don't think the average person they attempt to convert feels loved and cared about and invited in nearly as much as they threatened and judged for being outside. And for good reason, I think. It comes generally from a righteous "I'm one of the blessed" superiority that grates on people's nerves and is probably not quite what Jesus had in mind.

 

I'm sure it doesn't come from the good half of their hearts nearly so much as they would have you believe, but more from pride and a lack of both humility and empathy. Their religion would lose its luster if they achieved their goal of converting everyone, because a major part of the appeal is the exclusivity and permission they feel the Almighty has granted them to judge.

 

Everyone needs to have faith in something. Even those who don't embrace religion often have faith in things that are as ethereal and unprovable as God and Christ. I think Christianity is the way to go, but I understand that to most who are looking for answers it means submission not only to God but also to a group of apparent self-righteous hypocrites who trotted up to them on their high horses completely uninvited. Most would say, "I think I would like God, but I'll pass on the whole thing if it means I have to be like you."

 

It's one thing I can say I like about Catholicism. It's ancient and well-worn so that Catholics really don't care to come at you with their fervor. It's just a part of their lives and has been since they were born. The ones who have the least perspective are the born again types.

 

Johan, all of us can use work. We are all a WIP. The funny thing is, I've been shown less "love" and "concern" from Atheists. If it weren't for the few that that didn't judge me nor hate me due to my personal beliefs, I might have an extreme dim view of them. Christians don't have the market cornered on the "judgement theme", not by any means.

[Woggle]

In the absence of religion people will still find reasons to hate each other. There will always be people who think that another person deserves less rights because they are different from them.

[pureinheart]

This is the problem - not religion, but ignorance. Religion perpetrated and continues to perpetrate a stunning amount of bigotry, hatred, swindling, and crime. Atheism isn't the problem. Extremism, on both sides, is the problem. The world's morals haven't declined. We just have a 24hr news cycle right now, that had to fill that time by reporting the sh*t in the world, because mostly, it taps into the voyeur in us all.

 

Look at any peer reviewed study - crime trends, world wide, are decreasing. Look at the average religion rates of prisoners in US prisons - more prisoners identify with a particular religion than identify with atheism.

 

Just to clarify: Do you believe these things are only a religious problem?

 

This is where I'm divided a bit and possibly you can bring some insight. I agree that the world has always had bad garbage in it. I disagree however that it's getting better- I'm leery of stats and numbers as they can be crunched and skewed to fit any agenda.

 

Most of the stuff that goes on today is basically the same old lie from the beginning of man, nothing new really…just an increase of it due to more people and the availability of technology. My thought is, more people are doing more of it.

[Haydn]

Once again you surely jest? Values? Catholic church? Values???? Do you read or just the graffiti in front of you?

 

Read you posts and then talk about values.

 

Christians have been imposers of morality and values for many centuries.

 

The lack of values in today's world has very much to do with the decline of religion and Christianity.

[florence of suburbia]

…is there anyone else who would care to tackle this question?

 

To restate my post, which you did not reply to, it is because Evangelical Christians come across as lacking empathy, although that is the main thing that Jesus taught. Another thing Jesus taught is you meet people where they are. You don't do that. You don't try to present arguments based on premises everyone can agree on.

 

As a result, it feels like you're selling something. You seem to lack reflection and self awareness, and you talk kind of like automatons. The answer to every question or comment seems to be "If you knew Jesus, your doubts would be gone." Repeat ad nauseum in robotic voice and with robotic smile.

 

For example, see Pie's post above which you "liked". Does he respond to the questions and comments in Johan's post? No. He just quotes a few lines out of context and uses them to meet his own ends. This is mostly what I see from proselytizing Christians so it doesn't surprise me, although it is disappointing.

[Haydn]

Eddie Izzard's Noah's Ark - YouTube

[writergal]

Florence of Suburbia: one of my quotes is from the tv show house, "if you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people.

 

As usual, the religious folk in this thread have their hands over their ears, and are singing, "la la la la la can't hear you la la la la you stupid Atheist la la la la I'm right and your wrong because I believe in god and you don't la la la la la!"

 

It's futile to reason with religious people. They are unreasonable, defensive, small minded, passive-aggressive, judgmental people. They are also THE most intolerant kind of people on this planet as this thread (yet again a bashing Atheist thread) demonstrates.

 

And I agree with your post 100%. They also lack self awareness (that's the first trait to go when you join a religion because you become a hypnotized sheep to follow the word of god OR ELSE (lol).

 

Now watch me get attacked again for my strong viewpoint. Bring on the wrath of god ye religious people!

 

In the words of Bruce Almighty, "Smite me oh mighty smiter!" LOL

[writergal]

Eddie Izzard's Noah's Ark - YouTube

 

I LOVE Eddie Izzard! LOL

 

I also LOVE George Carlin.