UpwardForward Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 So basically you're proving my point about how Christianity rejects intellectualism because in your post you are calling Stephen Fry a false god because he intellectually argues a sound argument against Christianity. So because he shares a different viewpoint, because he is a nonbeliever, he is a false god? That makes no sense whatsoever. Try again. Mocking God, false gods. None of it works out. Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I don`t get this, there is no god. Yet you won`t accept that we don`t believe. Stephen fry made a logical argument, which part made you squirm? Why are you so angry? Mocking God, false gods. None of it works out. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Keenly Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Mocking God, false gods. None of it works out. I guess I'll see you on the other side. Oh, wait... No I won't. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 ROFL!! ten characters I guess I'll see you on the other side. Oh, wait... No I won't. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
florence of suburbia Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Um, are you evangelizing with this post Florence? Haha, I thought about that after I posted. I'm not a Christian and I never will be, but I do like the idea that there are Christians out there who don't believe I'm going to hell. I guess we'll find out for sure....or not..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Anela Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 That's awesome!! That makes me laugh out loud because it's so true. Also, as much as we non-believers deserve respect, we'll never get it as this thread proves so easily. Religious people will always feel threatened by non-believers and condemn the nonbelievers out of fear and ignorance. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that religious people are hypocrites the way they tout their ten commandments of Christianity yet don't put those into action when confronted with someone who simply doesn't share their same belief. I'm not a believer - I'm more on Wholigan's wavelength there, and I'm open to there being more that I'm unaware of - but I'm equally bothered when atheists insist on pushing their own beliefs down the throats of strong believers. This isn't directed at any one person, it's just something that I've felt in the past, when I saw someone doing that - singling out religious members of the community for mocking, and ruining their experience of the site. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I guess I'll see you on the other side. Oh, wait... No I won't. Yeah, you're going to have to do better than that. The threat of lack of the orher side doesn't wash with people with a modicum of intelligence. That's the equivalent of a campfire ghost story. Any believe system that allows you to recant on your death bed 30 seconds before you croak is not something to be scared of. The threat of eternal damnation is limp. There are real things in the world to be afraid of. Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Yeah, you're going to have to do better than that. The threat of lack of the orher side doesn't wash with people with a modicum of intelligence. That's the equivalent of a campfire ghost story. Any believe system that allows you to recant on your death bed 30 seconds before you croak is not something to be scared of. The threat of eternal damnation is limp. There are real things in the world to be afraid of. Sorry, directed at the other guy, you know what I meant. Link to post Share on other sites
gaius Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Kind of bizarre times we live in. Where the same liberal atheists who can't stop making one crack or another about christianity will so vigorously attack you if you say one bad word about Islam. Which is still busy cutting off womens clits in part of the world. I think it all goes back to the 70s when the unwashed atheist hippies "defeated" the more conservative religious folk, and ever since it's been evolved and in style to rag on religion. Which is pitifully sad actually, I spend a decent amount of time in the south and the religious folk have a lot going for them. And are really no more or less rational than liberal atheists. Just ask for their opinions on gun control and you'll discover they have a whole bunch of unprovable fairy tales they believe in as well. It's worse they bring theirs to the political arena instead of the church. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I don`t get this, there is no god. He is your Creator, the One who brought it all to perfection. Being an atheist doesn't exempt you. Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 He is your Creator, the One who brought it all to perfection. Being an atheist doesn't exempt you. Actually, it does. Religion is an opinion, not a fact. There is not a shred of evidence to back the existence of God. I'm not saying their isn't a God. I'm saying the evidence is not compelling enough. And I'm pretty sure Haydn came into being much like the rest of us. Parents smooshing their genitals together. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
man_in_the_box Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I used to identify as a Christian - nowadays I'm not really sure. I do believe something like a god exists but that is my personal belief and I don't care what anyone else thinks on this issue. I am open to discuss it if asked but generally I keep it to myself. Whether I hate religion - No. Especially not personal faith. Organised religion is a different matter but I don't 'hate' it either. IMO it's primarily a concept that by itself and it's more what mankind does with religion that I disprove of (or not). It's people's actions such as scrutinizing, harassing, persecuting, ridiculing others those who think differently that I despise - whether they do this by using religion as an excuse or something else. It's making sweeping generalisations over an entire collection of people who adhere some kind of belief based on the actions of a few that I find ignorant. I don't care if you are a christian picketting non-believer events, a muslim declaring non-islamists as lesser humans, an atheist making fun of people who believe in god online, a hindu hating a muslim or anything like this. There are many people who all fall under the denominator christian/muslim/jew/atheist/agnost/etc but who are so diverse on how they demonstrate this in their personal life that it is uncalled for to treat them all the same way simply because they identify with this belief. I think that people should be judged on an individual basis for their actions and not what abstract thoughts they have on something as personal as the belief in existance of a deity. Therefore I don't hate the religion but the people who choose it as an excuse to do harm to others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
UpwardForward Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Actually, it does. Religion is an opinion, not a fact. There is not a shred of evidence to back the existence of God. I'm not saying their isn't a God. I'm saying the evidence is not compelling enough. And I'm pretty sure Haydn came into being much like the rest of us. Parents smooshing their genitals together. With 'fertilization', coming into being through the mother, From God. Pretty nifty plan, huh? Link to post Share on other sites
Madman81 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 He is your Creator, the One who brought it all to perfection. Being an atheist doesn't exempt you. You know what? If you're at all interested in finding common ground and reaching a bit of understanding with the people on this thread who don't share your beliefs, all you have to say is something like this: "I follow my faith because I feel it has given my life value and meaning, and made me a happier and better person. I recognize that others have different views and beliefs, and that others have found value and meaning for their lives and become happier people through those different beliefs, even if those different beliefs don't happen to include a belief in a higher power. I wish them all well, and I genuinely hope that they continue to find happiness and meaning on the path they are following." Period. No footnote or postscript along the lines of "I know that you WON'T find meaning or value or happiness because you haven't accepted Christ as your saviour. And I know I'm right because _________" (insert verse from the Bible)." Can you do that? The reality, whether you accept it or not, is that many, many people find genuine meaning, value and happiness in their own lives from things that have nothing to do with your faith, or any faith for that matter. Through hiking. Through music. Through favourite novels. Through interpersonal relationships. I'm guessing that you consider those experiences of meaning-, value- and happiness-finding to be less valid (or completely invalid) or less intrinsically valuable than yours, because they don't involve your religious beliefs. Or am I off base with that? 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 With 'fertilization', coming into being through the mother, From God. Pretty nifty plan, huh? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Madman81 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 And because I've posed a "challenge" to you, it's only fair that I rise to the same challenge: You, UF, are a person of faith. Your faith is evidently a fundamental part of who you are. I can't tell if it's given you meaning, value and happiness in your life, because the only person who really knows that is you, and it would be arrogant of me to try to tell you whether or not your own beliefs are capable of making you happy and bringing meaning to your life. I don't happen to agree with you, but that's just my opinion, and I certainly have no greater claim to any ultimate truth that you or anybody else has. But I hope that your beliefs have brought meaning, value and happiness to your life, and that they continue to do so. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Haydn Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Now that was a night! I suspect our Jesus type friend is permanently on `smug` control. Its all very patronising but i guess polishing a halo can also become a chore. Actually, it does. Religion is an opinion, not a fact. There is not a shred of evidence to back the existence of God. I'm not saying their isn't a God. I'm saying the evidence is not compelling enough. And I'm pretty sure Haydn came into being much like the rest of us. Parents smooshing their genitals together. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pickflicker Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Now that was a night! I suspect our Jesus type friend is permanently on `smug` control. Its all very patronising but i guess polishing a halo can also become a chore. I was born exactly 9 months after my mother's birthday. No mystery there. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Madman81 Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Almost similar to my own, except that I believe it is somewhat sentient. I believe in the presence of a higher power, but that it is energy and exists in all living things. It's complicated to explain at the moment, but I understand this. ThaWholigan, my belief is probably somewhere between yours and Keenly's, insofar as I'm not sure if it's sentient or not. Basically I guess you could say I follow the "Church of I Don't Know", as Bill Maher called it. About the farthest I'll go (right now, at least; check in with me in a year and my view may be different) is that the energy field you speak of is something we're usually not aware of. Occasionally it makes itself known, but only in ways that we're individually capable of appreciating. Somebody once said that "life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by those moments that take our breath away." Those moments, I figure, are those times when that energy field makes itself known to us as individuals. I've experienced those, as everybody has. Mine have been from music, from sex, from movies, from watching my kids being born, from looking down from a mountain at everything below me. I've never been present at the moment of somebody's death, but I've spoken to several people who have, who have said that, as the person breathed their last, they "felt something". Religious people would call it a spirit, presumably; to me it's a manifestation of this energy field. I don't think it's something we can consciously tap into at this point, but maybe we will be able to someday. So overall, that to me is what "God" represents. It doesn't really have a message or teachings for us. It will continuously create and/or restore some form of order to everything, even though we may not appreciate or understand that order. And I guess I'm okay with that. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
man_in_the_box Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Well this thread functions as an excellent example that anybody can be a close-minded jackass regardless of what exactly they believe. Luckily there are plenty of posters that also confirm the opposite - and kudos for that. 6 Link to post Share on other sites
maiden of rohan Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 I have zero issue with what other people believe. They can believe in unicorns that pee glitter and poop rainbows for all I care, so long as they don't try and impose that belief on me or others. So long as they don't threaten me or others with eternal damnation for not believing in glitter-peeing unicorns. So long as they don't use that belief to justify discriminating against subsections of society. Have your beliefs, go to church, pray, and do all that makes you happy and fulfilled. That is perfectly fine and dandy. Just leave other people out of it. Accept that not everyone believes in god or even the same brand of religion that you do, and move on. Maybe you won't understand it, just as we won't understand your belief, but that is OK. You don't have to. You just have to let people alone. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 (edited) Eddie Izzard - Religion, Science, The Bible, And Dinosaur-Churches!!! - YouTube Edited March 24, 2014 by writergal 2 Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Have your beliefs, go to church, pray, and do all that makes you happy and fulfilled. That is perfectly fine and dandy. Just leave other people out of it. Accept that not everyone believes in god or even the same brand of religion that you do, and move on. Maybe you won't understand it, just as we won't understand your belief, but that is OK. You don't have to. You just have to let people alone. Christians will continue to spread the gospel to those who are open to hearing it. You are free to chose not to hear it. There are no countries where belief in Christianity is forced upon you. In most countries in the world, there is freedom of religion. In the U.S., there is a melting pot of many different religions, and no religion. We are free to believe what we wish. We also have freedom of speach, and are free to preach/share our beliefs with those who are open to hearing it. If you are not open to hearing it, then all you have to do is walk away. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
writergal Posted March 24, 2014 Share Posted March 24, 2014 Collection of Bill Maher stand-up about religion - YouTube 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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