Do you really hate "religion"...

[bubbaganoosh]

I despise people who use religion for their own gains like a politician drumming for votes and throwing out the "I'm a life long god fearing christian man", yeah right. Your a loudmouth two faced hypocrite that will lie, steal and cheat you way up the ladder.

 

 

The other ones I despise are the ones who hide behind the guise of being Christian, like the KKK, or the Westboro Baptist church. To use religion to spread hate goes beyond normal and ignorant. Their nothing but bottom dwelling losers who have to pick on other people to make themselves feel better because their classless.

 

Then the other people who shove being christian down your throat and believe that they are the only ones who have reservations to heaven and everyone else is taking the express elevator to hell. Such narrow minded people.

[KathyM]

A lot of people call themselves Christians, but their actions/words show otherwise. Those who are doing evil, killing others, tormenting others, blowing up abortion clinics or committing violent acts against others, while claiming to be Christians, are not true Christians. Don't judge an entire religion based on the actions of a few extremists. Just like it's unfair to judge all Muslims by the actions of a small group of Muslim terrorists. There are extremists in all religions. Christianity should be judged by the actions and teachings of Christ, not some handful of extremists.

[pureinheart]

Kind of bizarre times we live in. Where the same liberal atheists who can't stop making one crack or another about christianity will so vigorously attack you if you say one bad word about Islam. Which is still busy cutting off womens clits in part of the world.

 

I think it all goes back to the 70s when the unwashed atheist hippies "defeated" the more conservative religious folk, and ever since it's been evolved and in style to rag on religion. Which is pitifully sad actually, I spend a decent amount of time in the south and the religious folk have a lot going for them. And are really no more or less rational than liberal atheists. Just ask for their opinions on gun control and you'll discover they have a whole bunch of unprovable fairy tales they believe in as well. It's worse they bring theirs to the political arena instead of the church.

 

This is exactly what I don't understand.

[Madman81]

Christians will continue to spread the gospel to those who are open to hearing it. You are free to chose not to hear it. There are no countries where belief in Christianity is forced upon you. In most countries in the world, there is freedom of religion. In the U.S., there is a melting pot of many different religions, and no religion. We are free to believe what we wish. We also have freedom of speach, and are free to preach/share our beliefs with those who are open to hearing it. If you are not open to hearing it, then all you have to do is walk away.

Absolutely, we can simply walk away. Part of the difficulty, however, lies in the fact that people of what I'll call "strong" faith seem (outwardly, at least) to possess a level of certainty about "the way things should be" that the rest of us lack. And it doesn't matter whether they're evangelical Christians, orthodox Jews, fundamentalist Muslims, or whichever particular stripe of those faiths they belong to. Theirs is the only path to heaven or salvation, and if you don't agree, you're bound for Hell. And, as I observed earlier, it's only possible for one of those stripes to be right, or none of them are.

 

The problem with that kind of perspective is that it stifles debate and discussion. It's been said by evangelical Christians on this very board that God's word is God's word and that you don't get to cherry-pick which parts of it you follow. If you don't follow it whole cloth, you're not a true Christian. And on this very thread, ironically enough (I say "ironically" because the title of this thread was an invitation to everyone, even atheists like me, to talk about why we have problems with religion in general or Christianity in particular), we atheists have expressed our views, only to be told that, regardless of our views, the answer lies only in YOUR views. The ostensible invitation to a healthy discussion instead ends with "oh well, the only path to salvation lies in you accepting Christ as your saviour, whether you believe in God or not." End of intelligent discussion. Feels like a case of bait-and-switch.

 

That's why I posed the questions to UpwardForward (and then answered them of myself) that I posed above on this page. I'm looking forward to the reply.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Madman81

[KathyM]

I'll also add that some people are hypocrites. You will find some of that in all faiths. People who will pull out the "God card" when it suits their purposes in order to give themselves clout or credibility, when their real life and actions show a life that is turned against God. But again, don't judge the entire faith by the actions of a few. Christ is the example of Christianity. And there are many other great examples of people who are practicing the Christian faith in the way Christ intended. People who are very kind and caring, generous to others, peaceful helpers, who have a true heart of service to others, and service to God.

[UpwardForward]

Collection of Bill Maher stand-up about religion - YouTube

 

Bill Maher gives you comfort?

[pureinheart]

I despise people who use religion for their own gains like a politician drumming for votes and throwing out the "I'm a life long god fearing christian man", yeah right. Your a loudmouth two faced hypocrite that will lie, steal and cheat you way up the ladder.

 

The other ones I despise are the ones who hide behind the guise of being Christian, like the KKK, or the Westboro Baptist church. To use religion to spread hate goes beyond normal and ignorant. Their nothing but bottom dwelling losers who have to pick on other people to make themselves feel better because their classless.

 

Then the other people who shove being christian down your throat and believe that they are the only ones who have reservations to heaven and everyone else is taking the express elevator to hell. Such narrow minded people.

 

Concerning politics, I find this to be true, and even more true with non Christians as well.

[truthbetold]

This is exactly what I don't understand.

 

And you likely won't Pure. It's like those that scream the loudest, it's kind of obvious to everyone I guess but them. Especially all the high fives to the mocking links. Sad really to see that kind of hatred and rather ironic.

 

I'll also add that some people are hypocrites. You will find some of that in all faiths. People who will pull out the "God card" when it suits their purposes in order to give themselves clout or credibility, when their real life and actions show a life that is turned against God. But again, don't judge the entire faith by the actions of a few. Christ is the example of Christianity. And there are many other great examples of people who are practicing the Christian faith in the way Christ intended. People who are very kind and caring, generous to others, peaceful helpers, who have a true heart of service to others, and service to God.

 

Absolutely! So many people do use the God card when it suits or use the "let he without sin..." but conveniently forget the part go and sin NO more.

 

What's even more enlightening is how they shout Christians are narrow minded and aren't free thinkers even when given evidence to the contrary. Interesting to see who really IS narrow minded. Also funny is the sanctimonious tone that they accuse Christians of having and yet can't see the irony in themselves.

 

To the bold text: It's fantastic to see that in action in the world. And I thank God that I have been blessed to witness more of that in my corner of the world instead of so much pessimism and negativity and outright hate.

 

FWIW pure, I didn't take your opening post as an invitation to Atheists. I can see how it's open to all, but I took it that you were asking other Christians if they disdained religion, as in Catholic is definitely considered a religion but many don't want that association, instead prefer the PC term, "spiritual". One of my good friends is exactly in that category. I think for Christians though, it's a slippery slope to becoming "lukewarm" for Christ, thus my comment why did it become a "dirty word" when it's exactly what the early Christians believed in?

 

So I don't see that you were egging on or baiting anyone, I think many even Christians also can have a problem with "religion". Just because you can shout louder doesn't make you right! I thought that was basic social kindness 101 that was taught in kindergarten.

[KathyM]

Absolutely, we can simply walk away. Part of the difficulty, however, lies in the fact that people of what I'll call "strong" faith seem (outwardly, at least) to possess a level of certainty about "the way things should be" that the rest of us lack. And it doesn't matter whether they're evangelical Christians, orthodox Jews, fundamentalist Muslims, or whichever particular stripe of those faiths they belong to. Theirs is the only path to heaven or salvation, and if you don't agree, you're bound for Hell. And, as I observed earlier, it's only possible for one of those stripes to be right, or none of them are.

People form their beliefs based on what they think is accurate. Naturally, they think what they believe is the truth, or they would not believe it. Christ's followers were told by Him that He is that path to eternal life, and that no one will receive salvation except through Him. That was His decision to make, and He has every right to make it. You are faulting Christians for believing what Christ has told them. If you don't believe it, then why do you care that others believe it?

The problem with that kind of perspective is that it stifles debate and discussion. It's been said by evangelical Christians on this very board that God's word is God's word and that you don't get to cherry-pick which parts of it you follow. If you don't follow it whole cloth, you're not a true Christian. And on this very thread, ironically enough (I say "ironically" because the title of this thread was an invitation to everyone, even atheists like me, to talk about why we have problems with religion in general or Christianity in particular), we atheists have expressed our views, only to be told that, regardless of our views, the answer lies only in YOUR views. The ostensible invitation to a healthy discussion instead ends with "oh well, the only path to salvation lies in you accepting Christ as your saviour, whether you believe in God or not." End of intelligent discussion. Feels like a case of bait-and-switch.

Naturally, Christians believe what Christ has told them. I don't see why this is so perplexing to people, that Christians believe what Christ said. The debate of this thread, if you could call it a debate (since it has generally been a form of mocking of Christians by some of the atheists in this thread), or at least the intention of the thread starter was to find out why people hate Christians. Some people have made some valid points: that they hate those who are hypocrites, who claim to be Christians but their real life shows otherwise, and are only using the Christian label to further their career or their false image. Another point made was that they hate people who are extremists, who use Christ's name to perpetuate evil, such as Hitler did, or the KKK, or other extremist groups. And I can see that those two groups (hypocrites and extremists) are a bad representation of the faith. I don't believe those people are Christians. They are certainly not practicing what Christ has taught. My point in this debate is that Christianity should not be judged by the acts of hypocrites and extremists. It should be judged by the example of Christ. He was/is a loving, peaceful, caring, generous, healer, and that is the example of the faith. And there are many Christians who follow that example. So don't judge the faith by the actions of a few who are not practicing what Christ has taught.

[writergal]

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0M1XVE9W67g

[TheFinalWord]

It's Bush's fault!

 

Oh wait, this isn't the Malaysian airplane conspiracy thread...

[TheFinalWord]

Gaffigan's stand up on Jesus and religion is hilarious

 

 

I'm Christian, but come on some of this is true. If you can't laugh at yourself...

 

 

Personally, I'm more in line with Pastor Bob:

 

[pureinheart]

Absolutely, we can simply walk away. Part of the difficulty, however, lies in the fact that people of what I'll call "strong" faith seem (outwardly, at least) to possess a level of certainty about "the way things should be" that the rest of us lack. And it doesn't matter whether they're evangelical Christians, orthodox Jews, fundamentalist Muslims, or whichever particular stripe of those faiths they belong to. Theirs is the only path to heaven or salvation, and if you don't agree, you're bound for Hell. And, as I observed earlier, it's only possible for one of those stripes to be right, or none of them are.

 

The problem with that kind of perspective is that it stifles debate and discussion. It's been said by evangelical Christians on this very board that God's word is God's word and that you don't get to cherry-pick which parts of it you follow. If you don't follow it whole cloth, you're not a true Christian. And on this very thread, ironically enough (I say "ironically" because the title of this thread was an invitation to everyone, even atheists like me, to talk about why we have problems with religion in general or Christianity in particular), we atheists have expressed our views, only to be told that, regardless of our views, the answer lies only in YOUR views. The ostensible invitation to a healthy discussion instead ends with "oh well, the only path to salvation lies in you accepting Christ as your saviour, whether you believe in God or not." End of intelligent discussion. Feels like a case of bait-and-switch.

 

That's why I posed the questions to UpwardForward (and then answered them of myself) that I posed above on this page. I'm looking forward to the reply.

 

The thread took a definite turn that was not expected, although with that I find that some Atheists are quite fervent also concerning their non beliefs. What is the difference? We are all passionate in something.

 

Would you say the reason for such an extreme hate towards Christianity is due to saying Christianity is the only way to God? As you pointed out, there are other faiths that communicate this also. Still, how does this hurt anyone in the grand scheme of things? IMO a healthy discussion can be had even with this communication. What causes unhealthy discussion (again my opinion) is unhealthy people.

[pureinheart]

Gaffigan's stand up on Jesus and religion is hilarious

 

 

I'm Christian, but come on some of this is true. If you can't laugh at yourself...

 

 

Personally, I'm more in line with Pastor Bob:

 

 

Amen TFW…I only watched the last video. Powerful. Why do people not agree with each other on every single little point? Because we're all human and all individuals.

 

As far as laughing at ones self …. let's just say I laugh a lot:)

[Madman81]

The thread took a definite turn that was not expected, although with that I find that some Atheists are quite fervent also concerning their non beliefs. What is the difference? We are all passionate in something.

 

Would you say the reason for such an extreme hate towards Christianity is due to saying Christianity is the only way to God? As you pointed out, there are other faiths that communicate this also. Still, how does this hurt anyone in the grand scheme of things? IMO a healthy discussion can be had even with this communication. What causes unhealthy discussion (again my opinion) is unhealthy people.

The issue doesn't really lie with Christians believing theirs is the only way. Where the difficulty arises is when those same Christians (and certainly not all of them are guilty of this) attempt to impose their views on others. (Christians are in the limelight on this in North America simply because Christianity is the most prevalent religion here.)

 

I have examples from personal experience that are illustrative here. One of my closest friends of nearly 40 years was raised Catholic, left it behind in his latter teenage years, and then rediscovered it during university. He's been a staunch Catholic ever since, and seemingly getting more so every year -- he felt that Pope Benedict was too liberal, got married in 2005 (I was his best man) with a full Latin mass, he's raising his kids in a similarly devout fashion, they don't use birth control, etc. He's even largely abandoned most popular music and listens primarily to Gregorian chants. (Seriously.) There are a few others of our mutual friends who have known him almost as long; a couple are other faiths (Hindus, e.g.), and several (me included) are atheists. In my case, he knows that I'm an atheist, that I listen to heavy metal music (he displays seemingly genuine interest in the fact that I do so), knows that I have no issue with premarital sex though he doesn't believe in it, knows that I've smoked marijuana though he's opposed to it, knows that I'm pro-choice while he's pro-life, knows that I'm a liberal social democrat while he's a conservative, etc. He and I have even discussed our differing views on religion on several occasions in a friendly manner. And one of the reasons my friendship with him (and those of the others) has endured is because he does not try to convert me, and does not preach to me. Privately he may well believe that we're all going to Hell, but he has enough respect for us as his friends to at least respect the fact that we have different views and follow different paths.

 

(As a small aside, when I was going through my divorce ten years ago and was pretty fragile emotionally, I met several times with a priest this friend of mine knows, just for coffee and a chat. And even then.... never once did that priest try to convert me. He just listened, offered encouragement and support. He subsequently said that he though I was one of "nicest atheists he knew". )

 

As another example, my wife's parents are white South African (Afrikaner) conservative Christians. Likewise her grandparents, who are even more so. Her parents know that I'm a Canadian liberal, that I don't go to church, that one of my siblings is gay, that I listen to heavy metal music, that I have a couple of tattoos, etc. And guess what? We get along like a house on fire (and that includes her grandparents). They don't preach to me, I don't preach to them. Her dad even hugs me hello and goodbye when we visit them. When we're having a meal at their house, grace is said before the meal. I don't actually say "Amen" at those times, but I join hands with them and lower my head in respect, because I'm in their home. When we have dinner at our home, on the other hand, grace is not expected.

 

Then we come to issues beyond my own life. Gay marriage is illustrative here. There has never been a serious "threat" of churches that still think homosexuality is a sin being forced to conduct marriage services for gay couples. But inevitably in America, there is much gnashing of teeth and statements of apocalyptic doom from evangelical Christians about how, somehow, marriage between gay people they don't even know and who have nothing whatsoever to do with them will somehow destroy society. The mechanism of this supposed destruction has never been explained in anything but the most speculative, general and hysterical terms. And those same evangelical Christians seek to impose their control over these other people they don't even know by passing laws, or electing representatives to pass laws, outlawing gay marriage.

 

So yes, it's all well and good to say that, if we don't like what evangelical Christians say, we can simply stop listening. And in most cases, that's completely true. Where those same evangelical Christians are seeking to impose their beliefs on others, that's where the negative feelings towards Christianity come strongly into the picture.

Edited March 24, 2014 by Madman81

[KathyM]

The issue doesn't really lie with Christians believing theirs is the only way. Where the difficulty arises is when those same Christians (and certainly not all of them are guilty of this) attempt to impose their views on others. (Christians are in the limelight on this in North America simply because Christianity is the most prevalent religion here.)

 

I have examples from personal experience that are illustrative here. One of my closest friends of nearly 40 years was raised Catholic, left it behind in his latter teenage years, and then rediscovered it during university. He's been a staunch Catholic ever since, and seemingly getting more so every year -- he felt that Pope Benedict was too liberal, got married in 2005 (I was his best man) with a full Latin mass, he's raising his kids in a similarly devout fashion, they don't use birth control, etc. He's even largely abandoned most popular music and listens primarily to Gregorian chants. (Seriously.) There are a few others of our mutual friends who have known him almost as long; a couple are other faiths (Hindus, e.g.), and several (me included) are atheists. In my case, he knows that I'm an atheist, that I listen to heavy metal music (he displays seemingly genuine interest in the fact that I do so), knows that I have no issue with premarital sex though he doesn't believe in it, knows that I've smoked marijuana though he's opposed to it, knows that I'm pro-choice while he's pro-life, knows that I'm a liberal social democrat while he's a conservative, etc. He and I have even discussed our differing views on religion on several occasions in a friendly manner. And one of the reasons my friendship with him (and those of the others) has endured is because he does not try to convert me, and does not preach to me. Privately he may well believe that we're all going to Hell, but he has enough respect for us as his friends to at least respect the fact that we have different views and follow different paths.

 

(As a small aside, when I was going through my divorce ten years ago and was pretty fragile emotionally, I met several times with a priest this friend of mine knows, just for coffee and a chat. And even then.... never once did that priest try to convert me. He just listened, offered encouragement and support. He subsequently said that he though I was one of "nicest atheists he knew". )

 

As another example, my wife's parents are white South African (Afrikaner) conservative Christians. Likewise her grandparents, who are even more so. Her parents know that I'm a Canadian liberal, that I don't go to church, that one of my siblings is gay, that I listen to heavy metal music, that I have a couple of tattoos, etc. And guess what? We get along like a house on fire (and that includes her grandparents). They don't preach to me, I don't preach to them. Her dad even hugs me hello and goodbye when we visit them. When we're having a meal at their house, grace is said before the meal. I don't actually say "Amen" at those times, but I join hands with them and lower my head in respect, because I'm in their home. When we have dinner at our home, on the other hand, grace is not expected.

 

Then we come to issues beyond my own life. Gay marriage is illustrative here. There has never been a serious "threat" of churches that still think homosexuality is a sin being forced to conduct marriage services for gay couples. But inevitably in America, there is much gnashing of teeth and statements of apocalyptic doom from evangelical Christians about how, somehow, marriage between gay people they don't even know and who have nothing whatsoever to do with them will somehow destroy society. The mechanism of this supposed destruction has never been explained in anything but the most speculative, general and hysterical terms. And those same evangelical Christians seek to impose their control over these other people they don't even know by passing laws, or electing representatives to pass laws, outlawing gay marriage.

 

So yes, it's all well and good to say that, if we don't like what evangelical Christians say, we can simply stop listening. And in most cases, that's completely true. Where those same evangelical Christians are seeking to impose their beliefs on others, that's where the negative feelings towards Christianity come strongly into the picture.

Most of the Christians I know are friends with people of various faiths. Some have atheist friends. They may not agree on certain principles, but they can find a common ground where they do agree, and they have and show respect for the person, even if they don't agree with everything he believes in. I work with people of all faiths. Some are athiests. People with different belief systems and different attitudes, different sexual orientation, different background. We all get along. Most of them know I am a Christian. I don't hide that fact. I may not agree with some things, like abortion, which others may agree with, but I am entitled to vote according to my own beliefs. Other people are free to vote according to their own beliefs. You really can't expect someone to vote against their own belief system, and the teachings of their faith.

[pureinheart]

The issue doesn't really lie with Christians believing theirs is the only way. Where the difficulty arises is when those same Christians (and certainly not all of them are guilty of this) attempt to impose their views on others. (Christians are in the limelight on this in North America simply because Christianity is the most prevalent religion here.)

 

I have examples from personal experience that are illustrative here. One of my closest friends of nearly 40 years was raised Catholic, left it behind in his latter teenage years, and then rediscovered it during university. He's been a staunch Catholic ever since, and seemingly getting more so every year -- he felt that Pope Benedict was too liberal, got married in 2005 (I was his best man) with a full Latin mass, he's raising his kids in a similarly devout fashion, they don't use birth control, etc. He's even largely abandoned most popular music and listens primarily to Gregorian chants. (Seriously.) There are a few others of our mutual friends who have known him almost as long; a couple are other faiths (Hindus, e.g.), and several (me included) are atheists. In my case, he knows that I'm an atheist, that I listen to heavy metal music (he displays seemingly genuine interest in the fact that I do so), knows that I have no issue with premarital sex though he doesn't believe in it, knows that I've smoked marijuana though he's opposed to it, knows that I'm pro-choice while he's pro-life, knows that I'm a liberal social democrat while he's a conservative, etc. He and I have even discussed our differing views on religion on several occasions in a friendly manner. And one of the reasons my friendship with him (and those of the others) has endured is because he does not try to convert me, and does not preach to me. Privately he may well believe that we're all going to Hell, but he has enough respect for us as his friends to at least respect the fact that we have different views and follow different paths.

 

(As a small aside, when I was going through my divorce ten years ago and was pretty fragile emotionally, I met several times with a priest this friend of mine knows, just for coffee and a chat. And even then.... never once did that priest try to convert me. He just listened, offered encouragement and support. He subsequently said that he though I was one of "nicest atheists he knew". )

 

As another example, my wife's parents are white South African (Afrikaner) conservative Christians. Likewise her grandparents, who are even more so. Her parents know that I'm a Canadian liberal, that I don't go to church, that one of my siblings is gay, that I listen to heavy metal music, that I have a couple of tattoos, etc. And guess what? We get along like a house on fire (and that includes her grandparents). They don't preach to me, I don't preach to them. Her dad even hugs me hello and goodbye when we visit them. When we're having a meal at their house, grace is said before the meal. I don't actually say "Amen" at those times, but I join hands with them and lower my head in respect, because I'm in their home. When we have dinner at our home, on the other hand, grace is not expected.

 

Then we come to issues beyond my own life. Gay marriage is illustrative here. There has never been a serious "threat" of churches that still think homosexuality is a sin being forced to conduct marriage services for gay couples. But inevitably in America, there is much gnashing of teeth and statements of apocalyptic doom from evangelical Christians about how, somehow, marriage between gay people they don't even know and who have nothing whatsoever to do with them will somehow destroy society. The mechanism of this supposed destruction has never been explained in anything but the most speculative, general and hysterical terms. And those same evangelical Christians seek to impose their control over these other people they don't even know by passing laws, or electing representatives to pass laws, outlawing gay marriage.

 

So yes, it's all well and good to say that, if we don't like what evangelical Christians say, we can simply stop listening. And in most cases, that's completely true. Where those same evangelical Christians are seeking to impose their beliefs on others, that's where the negative feelings towards Christianity come strongly into the picture.

 

Excluding the bolded portion: MM I just don't know what to say, not being good at the evangelical part. You communicate personal relationships and I am the same way in respect with my personal relationships. I don't bring up anything controversial unless my friends do, and even then I remain sort of silent. I voice my opinions and leave it at that because a couple of friends at different times have gotten quite heated when I counter with mine. My goal is not to fight with them. Possibly I have the same issues as you and others, just on the other end of the spectrum?

 

I'm reluctant to comment on the "rights and wrongs" of evangelicals because I don't fully understand their commission. I'm not sure where God begins and ends in them, meaning are some operating out of the soul realm or the Spirit. I can't judge that. My commission is mainly intercession and more of a place of isolation.

 

Bolded- My counter on this would be the business that chose not to serve a gay couple. I thought all businesses reserved the right not serve or serve. This is only one instance.

 

I have both faith-based and personal reasons why I oppose gay marriage. My personal reasons were communicated in another thread, which in fact sparked this thread. I too have gay friends and family and learned the hard way why my faith opposes it. Now this could be on a superficial level as to the opposition by my faith, it could run much deeper.

 

Still, we are looking at a Democracy with the ability to chose what laws are enforced or created. Even though our faith is very well the driver, the same could be said with the lack of faith (which I still don't agree that Atheists lack faith in something, but this is just personal opinion).

 

To me, it's simply people disagreeing, it doesn't mean their bad or I'm bad, just a difference in beliefs/opinions.

Edited March 24, 2014 by pureinheart

[Madman81]

Most of the Christians I know are friends with people of various faiths. Some have atheist friends. They may not agree on certain principles, but they can find a common ground where they do agree, and they have and show respect for the person, even if they don't agree with everything he believes in. I work with people of all faiths. Some are athiests. People with different belief systems and different attitudes, different sexual orientation, different background. We all get along. Most of them know I am a Christian. I don't hide that fact. I may not agree with some things, like abortion, which others may agree with, but I am entitled to vote according to my own beliefs. Other people are free to vote according to their own beliefs. You really can't expect someone to vote against their own belief system, and the teachings of their faith.

No, but I can expect such a person to have enough intelligence and presence of mind to realize that the ability of two gay people he/she doesn't even know to marry each other (under the auspices of a totally different church or, say, at City Hall) has nothing whatsoever to do with that person's life, and he/she should mind his/her own business and not interfere with other people's rights.

 

In other words, it shouldn't even be an issue in this day and age, and I question why evangelical Christians even care at all what two gay people they don't know do with their lives.

 

There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation.

-- Pierre Trudeau, (Catholic) Prime Minister of Canada, 1967, speaking on the decriminalization of homosexuality

Edited March 24, 2014 by Madman81

[pureinheart]

 

To me, it's simply people disagreeing, it doesn't mean their bad or I'm bad, just a difference in beliefs/opinions.

 

I hope no one sees this from the, "They're, their or there" thread…

 

Correction, they're:o

[KathyM]

No, but I can expect such a person to have enough intelligence and presence of mind to realize that the ability of two gay people he/she doesn't even know to marry each other (under the auspices of a totally different church or, say, at City Hall) has nothing whatsoever to do with that person's life, and he/she should mind his/her own business and not interfere with other people's rights.

To some Christians, it is a matter of upholding God's laws. Christians consider marriage to be a holy union, and that marriage was created by God, and that God determines the rules on that, which is His right as the creator. They are not inclined to go against God's laws on that.

In other words, it shouldn't even be an issue in this day and age, and I question why evangelical Christians even care at all what two gay people they don't know do with their lives.

Christians are upholding God's laws when they vote against gay marriage. FTR, I voted for Obama in the last two elections because I didn't like the war mongering of the Republicans, but I have voted against gay marriage in the past, not because I personally feel offended by it, but because gay marriage offends God.

There's no place for the state in the bedrooms of the nation.

-- Pierre Trudeau, (Catholic) Prime Minister of Canada, 1967, speaking on the decriminalization of homosexuality

I don't believe homosexuality should be criminalized. I don't believe most Christians feel that it should be criminalized. But they do believe in protecting the sanctity of marriage, because that is God's will.

[truthbetold]

To some Christians, it is a matter of upholding God's laws. Christians consider marriage to be a holy union, and that marriage was created by God, and that God determines the rules on that, which is His right as the creator. They are not inclined to go against God's laws on that.

Christians are upholding God's laws when they vote against gay marriage. FTR, I voted for Obama in the last two elections because I didn't like the war mongering of the Republicans, but I have voted against gay marriage in the past, not because I personally feel offended by it, but because gay marriage offends God.

 

I don't believe homosexuality should be criminalized. I don't believe most Christians feel that it should be criminalized. But they do believe in protecting the sanctity of marriage, because that is God's will.

 

Absolutely. God created marriage not society. Call homosexuals wanting to have the benefits of having legal recognition something else. Definitely not marriage. Jesus speaks of a man and a woman uniting. Unreal that people can find some loophole to say it's not addressed in the Bible.

 

What I don't get is people who oppose God who want to be married at all let alone in a church. Go legalize the union at city hall, but to take vows and promises in front of God and then mock it? Makes no sense to me.

 

To consider other views does not mean that you need to be *so* opened minded that your brains fall out. And to uphold what one believes does not make one narrow minded just because they don't agree with something.

[pureinheart]

To some Christians, it is a matter of upholding God's laws. Christians consider marriage to be a holy union, and that marriage was created by God, and that God determines the rules on that, which is His right as the creator. They are not inclined to go against God's laws on that.

Christians are upholding God's laws when they vote against gay marriage. FTR, I voted for Obama in the last two elections because I didn't like the war mongering of the Republicans, but I have voted against gay marriage in the past, not because I personally feel offended by it, but because gay marriage offends God.

I don't believe homosexuality should be criminalized. I don't believe most Christians feel that it should be criminalized. But they do believe in protecting the sanctity of marriage, because that is God's will.

 

I'm not personally offended either.

 

Now I know in other countries it's a crime, but in NA has it ever been a crime? I don't agree with criminalization, however I do believe it should be a crime should a person with HIV knowingly have sex with another and infect that person.

[anne1707]

I'm not personally offended either.

 

Now I know in other countries it's a crime, but in NA has it ever been a crime? I don't agree with criminalization, however I do believe it should be a crime should a person with HIV knowingly have sex with another and infect that person.

 

Straight people are HIV too.

[pureinheart]

Absolutely. God created marriage not society. Call homosexuals wanting to have the benefits of having legal recognition something else. Definitely not marriage. Jesus speaks of a man and a woman uniting. Unreal that people can find some loophole to say it's not addressed in the Bible.

 

What I don't get is people who oppose God who want to be married at all let alone in a church. Go legalize the union at city hall, but to take vows and promises in front of God and then mock it? Makes no sense to me.

To consider other views does not mean that you need to be *so* opened minded that your brains fall out. And to uphold what one believes does not make one narrow minded just because they don't agree with something.

 

This doesn't make sense to me either. Most of the Atheists I know see the entire notion of marriage either outdated or nonessential.

 

Funny, I don't consider a person who disagrees with me narrow minded or any other wording of that nature and most Christians I know don't either- in fact none.

[pureinheart]

Straight people are HIV too.

 

This is why I used the terminology that I did, "should a person".