Forgiveness

[AllieKat]

God help me i was sitting here with hubby and its bad, im trying to keep mouth shut but hes taking low blows. Walking away is my

Only option, so I did! Not sure I can get passed the hurtful things he said. He wanted me to know hes done and the hurt is to big to get passed and he feels nothing for me. When i wouldnt respond he started saying things like how my rings were in jewelry box and they havent been there for 3 weeks, he brought up how i left and went to beach, how he feels nothing for me. Hes so cruel!!! I asked him to leave because I told him this is not good for Dd and he refused, his name is on the lease here so im not sure i can do anything but maybe i'll have to leave. Ugh i could cry. Not sure i handled this right but i didnt say anything other than telling him his words hurt and tgat i think hes not acting kindly and respectfully to Dd and that i think he should leave.

[trippi1432]

Allie...slow down. Hun, you sound like I did the first time I called a Divorce Busting coach. Whew!! Deep breaths....calm. Now take one thing at a time.

 

First, how did it happen that the two of you were sitting together on the couch and why did he bring up the same thing he had hashed out Friday night? What started this conversation? Yes, what he has already said to you is going to hurt, you already know that. He has already said that piece and you have already apologized about it enough.

 

 

Moving on to new information....why did he bring up the rings?? What does he mean they "were" in the jewelry box and they haven't been there in three weeks? Where are they?

 

 

Yes, you went to the beach, he was invited. He chose not to go, you didn't "leave" him. Not unless you made some display about it to make him feel guilty over it....you shouldn't give that any thought. Only own what is yours to own.

 

 

Was your daughter in the room when this all took place?? Just wondering since you told him that he wasn't acting kindly or respectfully to DD.

 

 

I would really like for you to go watch those videos and really think about happened and how it happened, this current interaction.

[AllieKat]

I guess he thought because I sat on couch I was trying to reconcile. Its my house too I feel like I should be able to sit wherever. Last night I put wedding ring/ band in my jewelry box. I had been wearing it at work then putti g it in change purse when i was at home. I did this because he said he was done and took his off and after Fridays convo I figured why wear it. Though I did have it on sat when he picked me up from Er.

 

So i guess hes been checking to see where it was and saw it this AM while I was working and it upset him! Not sure why if hes got his off and wants a D but it upset him enough to tell me. Dd was in bed and there was no screaming or yelling but I told him his words were unacceptable and it would be best for dd and all of us if he left. I told him its not helping her its hurting her having him there. He said hes not going anywhere now. He even said hes off till the 18th....ugh!

 

He just went off and started asking me questions and saying mean things and telling me he coukd be meaner if i liked. Basically he wanted me to coware and walk away and eventually I did but I got in my bit about his behavior is unacceptable. I dont like the fact hes choosing to say mean things just to hurt me thats not cool!

[todreaminblue]

Doesnt matter much anyway anymore, we talked tonight and he said he cant get passed this and he wants a divorce, Ive done all I could. I told him I was sorry for hurting him and I loved him. He said he isnt guarenteed this wont happen again and hes just not willing to go through this again so hes decided hes done. He said he knew I didnt lie to hurt him but it comes to soon after the last tiff.

 

So its over! Im heartbroken but I cant make him change his mind or forgive me and move on

 

Dear Allie,

You have done what you could,it is not good for you any more he is not able to deal with it.....and you would suffer with his behaviour now if you two were to stay together....you made a mistake and he is now holding a grudge....you honestly dont deserve to suffer for the rest of your life because of it.....you are only human not perfection...every single person on this planet has and will hurt somebody in their lifetime...i understand your heartbreak......but if you are out of the situation you can work on healing that heartbreak........you cant if you are living it everyday with a grudge.....be strong ......let him go then....if he comes back and wants to work it out.....and you still want to work it out.....then it will happen......if not .....you are not the only one responsible for the BU......it takes two to make a marriage work.......good luck and best wishes......debxo

[trippi1432]

I guess he thought because I sat on couch I was trying to reconcile. Its my house too I feel like I should be able to sit wherever. Last night I put wedding ring/ band in my jewelry box. I had been wearing it at work then putti g it in change purse when i was at home. I did this because he said he was done and took his off and after Fridays convo I figured why wear it. Though I did have it on sat when he picked me up from Er.

 

So i guess hes been checking to see where it was and saw it this AM while I was working and it upset him! Not sure why if hes got his off and wants a D but it upset him enough to tell me. Dd was in bed and there was no screaming or yelling but I told him his words were unacceptable and it would be best for dd and all of us if he left. I told him its not helping her its hurting her having him there. He said hes not going anywhere now. He even said hes off till the 18th....ugh!

 

He just went off and started asking me questions and saying mean things and telling me he coukd be meaner if i liked. Basically he wanted me to coware and walk away and eventually I did but I got in my bit about his behavior is unacceptable. I dont like the fact hes choosing to say mean things just to hurt me thats not cool!

 

What questions Allie? What did he ask? You see, you stated that you just sat down as you have a right to...affirmed..it's your house too. But you also said that he just started telling you the same things he told you Friday night. You didn't say he was asking you questions....is that when you decided to "zip your lip"? That would still be trying to get a reaction.

 

The whole story Allie...not spoon-fed, I'm going to stay on this until you learn that seeing both sides is the path to effective listening and communication or until you tell me that he was always this hurtful to you.

 

What were the questions?? And I find it interesting that he has been looking for you wearing your ring for 3 weeks.

[AllieKat]

He asked me questions like.. Why are you sitting here? Do you think your going to upset me? I did say I dont want to argue, i just want to relax and watch tv. He said sureee!! Then asked where rings were and went into speal about them not being in jewelry box for last 3 weeks.

 

He also brought up about me going to beach and i said the only im saying about beach is i wish youd had called DD and that hurt her. He said well you were at beach you could of come home! Wtf? He makes no sense. Also he still had my and daughters photos in wallet he took hers out and threw my pic in trash aling with some sexy boxer shorts Ive bought him over the years. Not sure why but whatever.

 

I did take my rings off and lay them on table and when i came inside from watering plants he had taken them and put his there! :-(

[AllieKat]

The mean things he said was i dont care for you! You hurt me and i cant get over it. I said i think it would be best for all of us if you left! I said you can take the money from the account to help start out. He said no im staying here!! I said staying here isnt good for any of us, he said maybe you should leave. I said please lets just be civil and he said why would i be civil with you im not doung anything you want. Ill stay as long as i want. I said living in this way is hell he said if you thinks its hell thats your problem. Thats when i walked away and water plants!

 

I feel like its going to be hard to recover, but i also hear him saying he doesnt care then bringing up rings and saying i should of come home from beach! I feel like hes trying to make things hard on me so i file because he doesnt want to.

[tojaz]

He asked me questions like.. Why are you sitting here? Do you think your going to upset me? I did say I dont want to argue, i just want to relax and watch tv. He said sureee!! Then asked where rings were and went into speal about them not being in jewelry box for last 3 weeks.

 

He also brought up about me going to beach and i said the only im saying about beach is i wish youd had called DD and that hurt her. He said well you were at beach you could of come home! Wtf? He makes no sense. Also he still had my and daughters photos in wallet he took hers out and threw my pic in trash aling with some sexy boxer shorts Ive bought him over the years. Not sure why but whatever.

 

I did take my rings off and lay them on table and when i came inside from watering plants he had taken them and put his there! :-(

 

Soooooooooo much grandstanding going on here. I told you before Allie that he is punishing you. Well here it is. You have stopped giving him that response he was after and so he has decided to turn up the pressure. You can actually see the escalation as you stood your ground.

 

You handled it very well though, you did not engage in the argument and you didn't do anything to feed the escalation further. I'm very proud of you. I would have preferred to hear that you had not left the room, but honestly can't say that I would have been that strong either.

 

I do find it curious that he has been checking your jewelery box. Odd behavior for someone who is so hell bent on appearing detached.

 

Rather then offering advice, I'm curious on your read on the whole thing. Read the post you wrote here and the few before it as if it was someone else writing them. What would be your opinion on the situation? On his thought process?

 

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

BTW - Thank you Tojaz.

 

For???????

[AllieKat]

Tojaz- IMO hes acting out trying to get a reaction which usually he would. I think he still cares very much so. To much emotion involved not to care! I thinks hes truly deeply hurt and because of it wants to hurt me as much. I think he actually likes the reaction he gets makes him feel like i care.

 

 

 

Tbh im surprised I didnt react more! I think i was just to tired to and i was reading the posts while he was saying stuff so it helped me shut it. Funny thing was the more i wanted him to leave or suggested it he pushed back and said i'll leave when i want!

 

Just wondered now that he got this off his chest whats next weeks of silence?

[trippi1432]

I'm just going to offer this....based on getting the entire story, perhaps this is a good time to take a break since the next few weeks means him being around. It would do you good to give yourself and your daughter a break from the emotional turmoil awhile.

[Yasuandio]

You have done well sassy girl. You kept your cool, and stayed in control. He didn't. He acted just as Trippi's husband, he wasn't getting the "desired" attention from you (albeit negative).

 

You stopped the dance cycle - and did not allow him to esculate matter (that is, push your buttons). There, the end result DID NOT END UP WITH YOU GETTING MAD.

 

Look at those divorce Busting videos Trippie suggested to you. I'd say you changed the dance to your own "Tango For One.". I just love it.

 

I like how you are staying on point - and letting him know his conduct is unacceptable. This is a much better mantra for you. As well, bring the "envirorment's" negative effect on your daughter is also on point.

 

From my point of view, there is really nothing for you to discuss with him, as the ball is in his court. Your mistakes have been made, the truths are on the table, and have been for months now. You have made yourself more than available to discuss matters and take responsibility for your mistakes. You have even gone overboard with your apologies, etc.

 

He has responded by leaving you in a limbo that has created nothing but feelings of insecurity for you, and your daughter. Natually, like most people, you have gravitated to becoming more and more "needy" as the PUNISHMENT and/or current threats continue. Now, his statements are inconsistent, he says he's planning to get a "YOU KNOW," that is divorce, yet he is cross examining you about your own rings.

 

Until you can have some clarity from what comes out of his mouth, and it is responsive and intelligent (whether it hurts or not), then there is really nothing for you to say. The last thing you said was his statements and conduct was unacceptable. When you see decent conduct, perhaps you might offer to make a nice dinner - but, no relationship talk! (See the 180 about that.). There are a lot of ways to deflect a convo on the relationship or divorce, here are a few nice statements you can make:

 

1. Oh, I really don't want to get into a serious convo tonight, let's keep it lite, ok?

 

2. Talking about divorce makes me sad. Can we change the subject?

 

3. I'd rather hear about your new job! Or, I rather Telly you about what a great report card caught brought home!

 

4. I'd prefer to have a stress-free evening, what about you? Can we agree on that?

 

You get the idea? If he is getting a divorce, there is really no reason for him to smear it under your nose like dog poopy. So, while he remains on the premises, keep everything as nice and drama free as humanly possible.

 

Now, he isn't going to like the new Allie, who is on her cell phone typing on LS (BTW, do not leave your cell phone laying around, and stay off the computer - he could have a key logger on there, go now and erase all history, better still, take it in and have the hard drive dumped). So, he may come at you with some criticism, or name-calling, or accusations. This is your magic response:

 

"Believe what you want to believe."

 

That's it, period, no discussion, no defensiveness, no reaction. I'm telling you this is the best way to NOT TAKE THE BAIT. If it becomes heartless, cruel, that is, abusive - then get in your car and leave.

 

Not only is the "ball in his court,"but literally, the ball can be in the Court if he keeps pushing you, and continues threatening you with divorce. Recall what I told about the importance of filing first. (hopefully it won't come to this, but if you file, the likelihood of him being put out of the home is a strong possibility - because of the way he has treated the child). So, he best not wish too hard, or he may get his wish.

 

That said, Seeing an attorney, and even filing divorce papers does not mean necessity you have to get divorced. But Allie, the moment you really believe he will file, know your rights apriori - especially the slight advantage to filing first. You can always fall back on the fact that this is ehat he said he wanted.

 

The ring thing seems very gamey to me. It shows that he is keeping tabs on you, and may not be fully committed to the divorce process, at least yet. Let's watch how this unfolds while Allie works on Allie.

 

Why don't you do a few things with your daughter this holiday? You can ask Hubby if he'd like to come along, but cross your fingers he says no, ok? I'd present like this:

 

Daughter has really been down, and I wanted to give her a little special treatment! I thought we'd go to the mall, get a mani and a pedi, get our hair done, and have a nice little dinner at Olive Garden. Would you like to join us?

 

If it's an emphatic (hopefully), then extend the dinner again. Are you sure you don't want to meet us at Olive Garden, say at 6:30? He'll say No.

 

Then tell him - well, you will know where we'll be at. Proceed with a wonderful Mother/Daughter day, and dress to the nines. Have the department store give you and your caught a free make-up. Maybe Estee Lauder is offering the free kit this month! Girl, I'm serious as a heart attack. Let me know what u think. Yas

[AllieKat]

I will watch the videos today! I will definately give all suggestions a try. Trippi- I cant go away as I have to work and money is tight but I can spend the day away from him easily with all the friends I have.

 

Lets hope for no more Drama this evening with him!

[tojaz]

Tojaz- IMO hes acting out trying to get a reaction which usually he would. I think he still cares very much so. To much emotion involved not to care! I thinks hes truly deeply hurt and because of it wants to hurt me as much. I think he actually likes the reaction he gets makes him feel like i care.

 

Or makes him feel in control. Looking back at a lot of things hes said in the past, that seems to be more important to him. Imposing his will. Hes already stated that he has felt like he was "living under peoples thumbs". With all that has been happening around him that has been out of his control hes tightening his grip on what he can.

 

 

 

Tbh im surprised I didnt react more! I think i was just to tired to and i was reading the posts while he was saying stuff so it helped me shut it. Funny thing was the more i wanted him to leave or suggested it he pushed back and said i'll leave when i want!

 

Just wondered now that he got this off his chest whats next weeks of silence?

 

Probably not. It will probably be more pressure and looking for more ways to demonstrate his control. The best tool you have right now is just being able to stay calm and rational regardless of what he throws at you. Resisting with force will be seen as a challenge, and giving in will be seen as a victory. Both will make him come on stronger. Hold fast to your boundaries and be able to realize when communication has stopped being healthy. Then just let him know calmly that he has crossed a line and that you would be happy to talk to him again when it is healthy for both of you. Give nothing, but take nothing away either.

 

TOJAZ

[trippi1432]

I will watch the videos today! I will definately give all suggestions a try. Trippi- I cant go away as I have to work and money is tight but I can spend the day away from him easily with all the friends I have.

 

Lets hope for no more Drama this evening with him!

 

Good Allie, and even if you can take a day away to spend with friends, it will be better for you all. He needs to learn to own his feelings and resolve them...he does have a right to them, something I think you recognize now.

 

I recall a little counseling during times of hostility that a standard response was "I'm sorry you feel that way". It sounds apologetic, but it's also is stated as making them responsible for their feelings and that they have to reach resolution of them.

 

You can have a boundary with drama...I had to learn that one, especially with two very dramatic children....you just don't play party to it.

[AllieKat]

Just two quick statements... Hehe Yas I do talk to much!!!

 

I thought he threw my pictures away so w/o him knowing I checked trash. Not pictures! Lol

 

Someone at work told me to "kill him with kindness" does that work in situations when D is on the line?

[AllieKat]

Ok i need help on how to handle this asap

 

Hubby sent me this text:

 

I have set up an appointment for us to see a bankruptcy attorney on Monday, July 16th at 9:00am, so if you can arrange to be available on that date and at that time for that appointment, that would be great.

 

The gentlemen have completed the replacement of the patio window/door; I will be leaving shortly to return the cat litter I bought and to get some laundry detergent. I do not know what your plans might be for this evening, but at some point in the near future, it would be wise for us to work out some kind of mutual agreement about assets, property, and things of that nature so that divorce proceedings are less complicated.

 

 

I didnt know what to say so I just agreed! Ugh i feel sick in stomach because its getting serious

[AllieKat]

I have to see him soon so Im taking the 180 approach. Ill listen, be quiet yet no cold and no matter what he says ill keep my cool! It aint over till its over right?

[tojaz]

Just two quick statements... Hehe Yas I do talk to much!!!

 

I thought he threw my pictures away so w/o him knowing I checked trash. Not pictures! Lol

 

Someone at work told me to "kill him with kindness" does that work in situations when D is on the line?

 

In some situation yes, but not this one. You have tried that route already.

 

Ok i need help on how to handle this asap

 

Hubby sent me this text:

 

I have set up an appointment for us to see a bankruptcy attorney on Monday, July 16th at 9:00am, so if you can arrange to be available on that date and at that time for that appointment, that would be great.

 

The gentlemen have completed the replacement of the patio window/door; I will be leaving shortly to return the cat litter I bought and to get some laundry detergent. I do not know what your plans might be for this evening, but at some point in the near future, it would be wise for us to work out some kind of mutual agreement about assets, property, and things of that nature so that divorce proceedings are less complicated.

 

 

I didnt know what to say so I just agreed! Ugh i feel sick in stomach because its getting serious

 

Relax, its just talk for now. Don't sign anything unless you fully undersatnd and agree with it. Don't be afraid to stand up for yourself, but do so calmly and cool, even if... strike that, ESPECIALLY if he gets agitated. Don't let him bait you into another argument, you have the right to pull the plug anytime you want.

 

I have to see him soon so Im taking the 180 approach. Ill listen, be quiet yet no cold and no matter what he says ill keep my cool! It aint over till its over right?

 

Exactly right Allie. Good luck.

 

TOJAZ

[AllieKat]

Ok heres what happened after his texts i said i could make appt no prob! So when i got home hubby said hi to me and was chatty and kind! Really odd huh? He cleaned kitchen up from top to bottom and told me about the new sliding glass door and how it works and told me all about how it was more work for the guys then they thought. He asked me if i wanted him to get rid of old tv and i said maybe you will want it, he said no i dont need it. It was strange i just smiled and LISTENED and didnt make to much talk back. Then i went out shopping!

 

He is so confusing!! He sends me those texts then is nice as pie? No wonder im a mess! Lol

[AllieKat]

Ok once I came home I did a bunch of busy stuff around house and then sat in living room with him for an hour. Ten minutes into sitting with him he said do you wanna hear what we need to bring to bankruptcy consultation. I said ok and he told me: pay stubs, credit reports, drivers license. I simply said ok. Then he told me they will look into our debt and see if bankruptcy is an option and thats that. I just smiled ( not to big) and said ok. Then he asked if i wanted him to get those tires for my car. I said sure if you have time and want to. He said oh yeah i have time i just wasnt sure what you wanted me to do. I said your the car expert ( hes a mechanic) whatever you think is good by me.I said that in a nice way. Sounds snotty but it wasnt.

 

 

I hope that was ok! Im feeling glimmers of hope and that small bit of hope is what is carrying me through not screwing up.

 

I want to say also that I dont think i could do this w/o you LS posters helping me through. Im so thankful your all taking the time to help me please know Im very grateful!! :-)

[trippi1432]

You did very well Allie, I'm proud of you.

 

I'm not sure if I recall correctly, was the bankruptcy already in motion before you came to LS?

[AllieKat]

Ty Trippi- bankruptcy is something weve been tossing around for the last few months in good times and bad.

[trippi1432]

So there is a lot of under-lying financial stress there since before all of the other happened...right? In other words, hubby acted completely normal prior to the argument that started this spiral?

[AllieKat]

Yeah there was finan. Stress prior and he acted comp normal, very loving etc.