guys who have slept around can be the most loyal of all

[silvermercy]

feminine men do best hahah! omg that's funny- can't even respond. Anyway I was just responding to question about betas 'spreading rumours'. And yes I think they do- just as average girls like to gossip that the beautiful girls are either stupid or bitches. Happens all the time- I just pointing it out.

So most single guys are sexually frustrated (ie what they want they can't get) so they gossip/try to discredit the 10% that do get what they want. Untrue?

INDEED! It's not a myth!! Myself included I like more gentle-looking men. Have you gone to a site like deviantart to see? Have you looked up the term "yaoi" how popular it is with women and the type of male they feature (mostly effeminate)? Look at all the celebs (Justin Bieber, One Dimension, Zack Effron, Leonardo di Caprio when he was younger, and heck, even Brad Pitt, they all have more gentle effeminate features. That's what makes them handsome).

 

Science report: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Women-Prefer-Effeminate-Men-as-Husbands-62354.shtml

 

LOL! I think the "muslim" in your example is you danny, not me.

Edited February 24, 2012 by silvermercy

[kaylan]

Well I can support my claim . How about you? Read any anthropological books- and it points out that countless species do exactly what I'm describing- but somehow not what you're asserting. So you can write back 'but we're different from the rest of the animal kingdom- we can THINK etc etc'...and I'll say oh ya - I wish.

But the similarities hugely out weigh the differences.

I don't put humans much above the other animals...and there's a reason why we say' we're creatures of habit'.

So let's here how you'd 'prove ' your point. And I don't think v/recent (last 50yrs) hippie equality coffee shop idealism can counter what the whole history of mankind has revealled about us.

What other species do have nothing to do with modern humans.

 

And even if you wanted to use flawed evo-psych explanations, I could easily say older women do the same thing older men do. They are attracted to youthful men because we are more able bodied and virile.

 

But lets be serious. Attraction to youth isnt about fertility and wanting to make kids. Most folks avoid that in their casual encounters. Attraction to youth is basically about enjoying the better looks of younger people. We are sleeker, stronger, without wrinkles, more firm bodied, etc.

 

How are your assertions about why older women want younger men, any more valid then what these women are actually feeling and saying?

 

In general itd make sense that people would be most attracted to men and women in their prime. Thats generally 18 to 35. After that the body starts breaking down at a very fast right.

[danny in van]

I'll tell you something - when we see a certain older guy such as the one you just described (which I'm sure is a description of yourself ) ...it makes us go "hmmmm he's not like the cookie cutter frat boys I go for...but at least he seems to have a big.....wallet, so I may have to rethink my reservations about older creeps who think they still got it going"

 

 

so you just revealed yourself to be a gold digger? Well judging from yer poor white trailer trash photo yer gonna need to find someone w $. Cuz btw I don't go near girls w big tattoos...It's so revealing about their socio eco education status. Hell I'd even date someone my age w/out tattoos before you!

And also keep in mind that cuz I've had my fill, I unlike guys in your age group, sit back quite calmly- can take it or leave it. I don't hit on girls, but simply respond to looks I get- if they don't have tattoos that is. There are plenty of 20 somethings guys with no game whatsoever who are creeps cuz they're soooo desperate to get it!

[kaylan]

I believe it's cuz the black slaves brought to the US were 'thoroughbreds' so to speak- of superior physical stock...and they continued to lead physical lives, thus getting stronger etc while whitey sat back in life of comfort. More black kids playing football than whites ? hell no! That's an expensive sport that excludes alot of inner city blacks...

Lmao....you are a riot. A few hundred years of slavery breeding will not alter a populations DNA enough to create a "superior breed". This is how I know you have no idea what you are talking about. You cited anthropology before and then spouted off this bs. Black slaves brought to the US were not the best of the best. Many of them were captured indiscriminately. The selective breeding of slaves occurred once they got to the new world.

 

But as I said, a few hundred years of breeding is not enough to alter an entire population. Especially when African Americans have plenty of Caucasian and Native American blood in their veins. Look it up. Thats were the different skin tones and stuff come from. Charles Barkley found out some time ago that hes actually about 15% white.

 

And dude...read what I said about...more blacks are playing basketball and football as a way to get out of dire straits. They are solely motivated on their sport usually. White kids dont do that with those sports and usually are focused on school as well.

 

Blacks arent superior athletes in those sports based solely on their genetics. Sociology plays a large part into what they are overrepresented in those two sports but not in others. If you had more white kids in ghettos who focused solely on sport as a way to get out of the ghetto, trust me youd see more of them in the NFL and NBA.

 

Look at the rise of this Asian kid, Jeremy Lin with the NY Knicks. Asian parents usually make their kids focus only on school and dont encourage sports as much. But his parents were different and encouraged him to follow his dream. The NBA was where he wanted to be. And trust me that he will influence many Asian American kids in this generation to wanna grow up and reach the NBA. Theyll know its possible and that they dont have to only be nerds.

 

Btw...explain the mass exodus of European whites in the NBA today if blacks are so superior? Plenty of whites in europe are playing basketball in camps and organizations from a young age, with the sole purpose of going pro. Some of those kids go pro at 16.

 

Look at soccer too. Clubs scout kids when they are 10 years old sometimes. Messi was scouted by Barcalona at such a young age. They even paid for his growth hormone treatment because he had a deficiency and they saw much potential in him.

Edited February 24, 2012 by kaylan

[ffw]

OP, what's the point of this thread? Why do you want to force your ideas & your way of living in someone's throat? You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. You don't need a confirmation. You lived your life with your own set of principles; it doesn't matter what others think of it.

 

Having said that, its interesting to see the thread is divided between you, woggle (adult males) & others.

[danny in van]

I have to agree with this. "Betas" don't call "alphas" jerks because "alphas" are masculine, confident, and sexual, and the "betas" want to feel better about themselves. Guys call other guys "jerks" because for some reason science has yet to pin down women tend to gravitate toward men who treat them poorly. That is why guys call other guys jerks. Nice guys justifiably can't understand why women drool over self-centered bad boys while they (the nice guys) sit at home on a Saturday night. This is where the saying, "Nice guys finish last" comes from.

 

The whole bandying about of "alpha" and "beta" terminology doesn't sit quite right with me, anyhow. I don't know if I really believe that some men are "alphas" and some "betas". In any case, an "alpha" who brags about his sexual conquests and condescendingly accuses "betas" of basically being jealous probably deserves to be called a jerk.

 

I disagree: the 'poor' treatment you refer to is that 'alphas' have ample choice, so are less likely to want to commit to any one girl. That doesn't suit the girl of course, but it's not abusive or bad behaviour. Unless he promised fidelity in order to get sex- that's bad! I never have done that.

And it's a myth that girls are masochists that like to be treated 'bad'. What they like is that he's the desireable 'stud' let's say (genetically gifted) - and a lotta girls want that, just as you'd want the hottest girl (assuming she's normal, cool etc). And of course 'betas' are jealous! I've been that guy too. Do the nerds take potshots at the jocks and vice versa? Of course!

[Woggle]

Some women do seem to be into men who mistreat them. Look at Rihanna. She can have her pick of men but is caught up on Chris Brown.

[danny in van]

What other species do have nothing to do with modern humans.

 

And even if you wanted to use flawed evo-psych explanations, I could easily say older women do the same thing older men do. They are attracted to youthful men because we are more able bodied and virile.

 

But lets be serious. Attraction to youth isnt about fertility and wanting to make kids. Most folks avoid that in their casual encounters. Attraction to youth is basically about enjoying the better looks of younger people. We are sleeker, stronger, without wrinkles, more firm bodied, etc.

 

How are your assertions about why older women want younger men, any more valid then what these women are actually feeling and saying?

 

In general itd make sense that people would be most attracted to men and women in their prime. Thats generally 18 to 35. After that the body starts breaking down at a very fast right.

 

So it's just coincidence that many species have exactly similar patterns as us (invariably the male with most 'status' attains most beautiful, fertile female; the male w/ most 'status' is able to have his choice of partners and typically upgrades to younger, but not vice versa)- AND we are suddenly (the last 50 yrs) different from our history of hundreds of thousands of yrs?? haha!

[danny in van]

OP, what's the point of this thread? Why do you want to force your ideas & your way of living in someone's throat? You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. You don't need a confirmation. You lived your life with your own set of principles; it doesn't matter what others think of it.

 

Having said that, its interesting to see the thread is divided between you, woggle (adult males) & others.

 

the post started with me only wanting to say the thought that cuz you've been with lotsa girls doesn't mean you can't be loyal to one. Is that so bad?

[Nightsky]

the post started with me only wanting to say the thought that cuz you've been with lotsa girls doesn't mean you can't be loyal to one. Is that so bad?

 

It's pointless and the fact that you call yourself alpha and other people beta is lame.

[danny in van]

So it's just coincidence that many species have exactly similar patterns as us (invariably the male with most 'status' attains most beautiful, fertile female; the male w/ most 'status' is able to have his choice of partners and typically upgrades to younger, but not vice versa)- AND we are suddenly (the last 50 yrs) different from our history of hundreds of thousands of yrs?? haha!

 

oh and my 'assertions' are actually just observations of well documented animal nature (of which we' re def included) and is pretty much a 'truism'. Men stray more cuz unlike women they don't get impregnated when they do. Women are more selective cuz of pregnancy reasons. Males tend to stray after offspring come along and look for younger femmes to do it again with.

Older spurned femme of course will look for and find willing attention, from younger very horny males.

Because you wish this to be otherwise doesn't make an argument.

[reallyhotguy]

I see beautiful girls when in a relationship, but I don't have to 'have them' because I've experienced that. So I'm loyal as a swan- assuming the girl I'm with has her act together, and is fit, cute, fun, uncomplicated, normal, litehearted, kind etc.

Comments?

 

Yeah man, I'm right there with you! Loyal as a... er, swan... as long as she has all the stuff I'm looking for!

 

But once she doesn't anymore, I'm peacing on the bitch, you feel me? Gotta keep that game up, for real.

[silvermercy]

So it's just coincidence that many species have exactly similar patterns as us (invariably the male with most 'status' attains most beautiful, fertile female; the male w/ most 'status' is able to have his choice of partners and typically upgrades to younger, but not vice versa)- AND we are suddenly (the last 50 yrs) different from our history of hundreds of thousands of yrs?? haha!

Alpha female's are actually very common in nature. Hyena clans have a matriarch. Same with elephants. African wild dogs only allow one female to mate. Orcas have a ranking order with females known to rank highest. Also many species such as various canine packs have both an alpha male and a female (an alpha pair) and generally species who mate for life like penguins, Eagles, Lovebirds, Pidgeons, Swans, Seahorses, Whales,Dolphins, grey wolves,gibbon apes, beavers, barn owls, anglerfish, redtail hawk, french angel fish, brolga cranes,ospreys prairie voels,black vultures,condors, sandhill cranes,golden eagle, prions, bats, foxes,coyote, termites,shingleback skink, whooping crane, crows etc etc etc....

[danny in van]

Yeah man, I'm right there with you! Loyal as a... er, swan... as long as she has all the stuff I'm looking for!

 

But once she doesn't anymore, I'm peacing on the bitch, you feel me? Gotta keep that game up, for real.

 

hey english I think is still the language in this thread, let's keep it that way.

Of course it's a given that attraction is needed to remain loyal- and I've crossed that bridge successfully (and she stayed hot, fit , fun, ezgoing) and did remain loyal to the end, homey.

[danny in van]

Alpha female's are actually very common in nature. Hyena clans have a matriarch. Same with elephants. African wild dogs only allow one female to mate. Orcas have a ranking order with females known to rank highest. Also many species such as various canine packs have both an alpha male and a female (an alpha pair) and generally species who mate for life like penguins, Eagles, Lovebirds, Pidgeons, Swans, Seahorses, Whales,Dolphins, grey wolves,gibbon apes, beavers, barn owls, anglerfish, redtail hawk, french angel fish, brolga cranes,ospreys prairie voels,black vultures,condors, sandhill cranes,golden eagle, prions, bats, foxes,coyote, termites,shingleback skink, whooping crane, crows etc etc etc....

 

really what about this?:http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=monogomous%20animals&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CE8QFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.softpedia.com%2Fnews%2FMonogamy-is-an-Oddity-42006.shtml&ei=ohpIT9PDDqrZiAL5g8jaDQ&usg=AFQjCNEj1TxGfpX9sFQErdm2TQRh1rBcng

 

 

"Monogamy is so rare in the animal world that only 3-5 % of the mammals are known to form lifelong pair bonds, like beavers, otters, jackals, foxes, some bats and a few dwarf deer and antelopes.

 

In fact, strict monogamy is almost nonexistent, as creatures that do pair for life, occasionally have flings on the side and some, like the wolf, do not mourn too much a death or a no longer sexually performing partner.

 

Staying faithful is extremely hard for animals, as the males are programmed to spread their genes and females to get the best genes from the best males for their young".

[reallyhotguy]

hey english I think is still the language in this thread, let's keep it that way.

 

Yo son, the word "English" is proper noun, which means you gotta capitalize that **** doggie. I'm not trying to see the sanctity of my native tongue violated, you feel me?

 

Also, just saying, "ezgoing" ain't no word I've ever seen. **** is straight up disrespectful really.

[Negative Nancy]

and females to get the best genes from the best males for their young".

 

so i take it you wouldn't be too upset then if your gf used that line on you before going out and getting some action on the side. after all she needs to get the BEST genes from the BEST males for her offspring. and since that wouldn't be you as an older man...

[danny in van]

so i take it you wouldn't be too upset then if your gf used that line on you before going out and getting some action on the side. after all she needs to get the BEST genes from the BEST males for her offspring. and since that wouldn't be you as an older man...

 

well you set your own trap so here goes: no that doesn't logically follow. Men look for younger cuz women can't give birth after a certain point. Males of course can.

And because she can see I'm financially, mentally and physically fit she knows what genes she's getting ie at 25 he may still turn out to be a failure, never 'launch'. She doesn't know - his 'genes' haven't expressed themselves for all to see. To be fit in all senses at 40 means you passed life's tests. At 25 the jury is still out.

[kaylan]

So it's just coincidence that many species have exactly similar patterns as us (invariably the male with most 'status' attains most beautiful, fertile female; the male w/ most 'status' is able to have his choice of partners and typically upgrades to younger, but not vice versa)- AND we are suddenly (the last 50 yrs) different from our history of hundreds of thousands of yrs?? haha!

Last I checked, hot guys get hot girls regardless of their money.

 

And last I checked, there are guys like Kevin Federline who gold dig on rich women out there.

 

Theres even a female poster here that is stuck paying alimony to her ex husband.

 

Human history is constantly changing. Nature and nurture are both very powerful. If you wanna use all this human history stuff, then I guess most men are naturally bisexual because in human history many guys had trists with young men....I mean would you agree with that assertion?

 

Lets be real here. You think hot young guy who be turning down 40 plus yr old rich women if those women wanted them and were willing to pamper them? Most guys would jump at that lifestyle, especially since it opens the door to meeting a whole new slew of females.

 

The thing is that until recently, single women with status werent chasing younger men...but now they are.

 

You think young women with rich old men are only having sex with the old guys? Haha lets be serious.

 

Human history was more about male dominance more so than human biology. Now women dont need a mans status, so a lot of them wont forgo physical attraction for the sake of a mans resources.

[silvermercy]

oh and my 'assertions' are actually just observations of well documented animal nature (of which we' re def included) and is pretty much a 'truism'. Men stray more cuz unlike women they don't get impregnated when they do. Women are more selective cuz of pregnancy reasons. Males tend to stray after offspring come along and look for younger femmes to do it again with.

Older spurned femme of course will look for and find willing attention, from younger very horny males.

Because you wish this to be otherwise doesn't make an argument.

Danny do you live in caves? Are you a wild animal? Do you eat raw meat frequently?

 

I've just shown you so many examples of alpha females and monogamy in animals and you produce an article saying it's rare. So what? We can go back and forth all day listing monogamous vs non-monogamous species.

 

Our human species benefits greatly from bi-parental care. Animals who are not monogamous DON'T HAVE A NEED for monogamy for the simple reason they DON'T NEED IT. Instead, humans can profit from shared, reciprocated effort, especially when we're confident both partners will be around for the long term!

 

If we go by your logic again:

- why does the male's job stop on implantation of his seed? He's not taking care to see his offspring to the very end, thus, securing survival, and continuation of the species (which, I'm being told, is the most important male job)? If he impregnated 10 women in the desert, whose woman's offspring would have the biggest chances of survival? The one he chose to stay with or the ones he abandoned?

 

- why is it that it always come to fertility? Obviously many men (and women, too) DO NOT want to get women pregnant - at whatever age. So what does the youth and fertility have to do with the equation when they are not even part of it?

 

- why is it that propagation the species is seen as the most important in discussions? How about overpopulation and exhaustion of resources? How about the Easter island example?

 

- why don't women should sleep with as many men as possible to get the best pregnancies resulting from the best sperm possible? And don't give me crap about women having fertility until 50. men die earlier and second their infertility starts the decline much sooner than the women. Have you researched to see how common MALE infertility is? My PhD was on that, female, too. The fact that some men can produce offspring later is irrelevant. The majority has sperm decline from an early age anyway and older women would benefit from a younger sperm.

 

But again, why do we make it about fertility when it's not part of the equation most of the times?

Edited February 24, 2012 by silvermercy

[Nightsky]

OP is nonsensical.

[kaylan]

well you set your own trap so here goes: no that doesn't logically follow. Men look for younger cuz women can't give birth after a certain point. Males of course can.

And because she can see I'm financially, mentally and physically fit she knows what genes she's getting ie at 25 he may still turn out to be a failure, never 'launch'. She doesn't know - his 'genes' haven't expressed themselves for all to see. To be fit in all senses at 40 means you passed life's tests. At 25 the jury is still out.

Since when are 25 year olds not mentally or physically fit? Guys brains are done growing at 25, and we reach our peak physically capabilities in our 20s.

 

Plus plenty of guys in their 20s are successful and going somewhere. Also many women have their own money nowadays...so many would rather marry for love then simply security since she can secure herself.

 

So realistically I cannot see how an older guy has such a leg up on us young bucks. I really think some of these old dudes online are delusional or simply making up stories about "all the younger girls [they] get".

 

All of the women I know in their 20s are dating guys in their 20s. And thats what I see out in the real world when couples are walking around. Cougars and older guys getting younger chicks are really in the minority, even though some folks wanna delude themselves into thinking they are the pick of the litter.

 

Hot young chicks want hot young guys. This is all I ever see in bars and clubs. Older dudes get the "eww" treatment usually. Which does kinda suck for them since people dont act all creeped out by the older women who party in the same places from time to time.

 

I wouldnt mind any of what you say so much if you werent pushing this double standard and the perception that you are so much better than your female counterparts. And if you werent touting yourself as so superior to younger guy.

 

But then again, you can believe what ya want. All I know is its 2012...and girls Im around want a guy they are attracted to. Not an older dude trying to buy them off. Ive never felt in competition with you guys to be honest. Ive never had a girl turn be down because she wanted a 30 or 40 plus dude with money. I have been turned down for the more attractive guy my age though.

Edited February 24, 2012 by kaylan

[mesmerized]

Nice try on the studies thing. No there aren't actually. Or if there is one, well far outweighed by hundreds saying otherwise.

And about girl I'm seeing: well let's say you saw this guy who you found very attractive. Didn't look, act or talk like others BECAUSE his lifestyle created this...would you deny your attraction and walk away...or you could try to find a replica of him 20yrs younger (that won't work).

See some girls know that rare CERTAIN older guys (small minority) actually are the most appealing because they have it all going on. And they can tell he's not desperate for sex like 20 somethings, which of course is a universal turnoff. The most sought after wines need aging to reach their peak.

 

I find it funny that you think you're at your peak. Sure Many women would date you, but believe it or not, your age is a dealbreaker for A LOT of women in their twenties (most of my friends included). Just because you landed some young girls (too young to be able to think right in fact, their brains haven't even developed enough lol) doesn't mean that you can get any girl. I certainly wouldn't date a guy your age no matter how fit or experienced you are. I'd rather be with a younger guy who doesn't tell me "been there, done that" to whatever I say!! ugh and whose penis I can enjoy for a longer amount of time before it can only function once a week lol I might have sex with a guy two decades older (which I highly doubt ever happens) but commitment? not possible.

[Ranchero44]

I certainly wouldn't date a guy your age no matter how fit or experienced you are.

 

 

I wouldn't date a guy who considered himself superior to anyone else for any reason.

[danny in van]

Danny do you live in caves? Are you a wild animal? Do you eat raw meat frequently?

 

I've just shown you so many examples of alpha females and monogamy in animals and you produce an article saying it's rare. So what? We can go back and forth all day listing monogamous vs non-monogamous species.

 

Our human species benefits greatly from bi-parental care. Animals who are not monogamous DON'T HAVE A NEED for monogamy for the simple reason they DON'T NEED IT. Instead, humans can profit from shared, reciprocated effort, especially when we're confident both partners will be around for the long term!

 

If we go by your logic again:

- why does the male's job stop on implantation of his seed? He's not taking care to see his offspring to the very end, thus, securing survival, and continuation of the species (which, I'm being told, is the most important male job)? If he impregnated 10 women in the desert, whose woman's offspring would have the biggest chances of survival? The one he chose to stay with or the ones he abandoned?

 

- why is it that it always come to fertility? Obviously many men (and women, too) DO NOT want to get women pregnant - at whatever age. So what does the youth and fertility have to do with the equation when they are not even part of it?

 

- why is it that propagation the species is seen as the most important in discussions? How about overpopulation and exhaustion of resources? How about the Easter island example?

 

- why don't women should sleep with as many men as possible to get the best pregnancies resulting from the best sperm possible? And don't give me crap about women having fertility until 50. men die earlier and second their infertility starts the decline much sooner than the women. Have you researched to see how common MALE infertility is? My PhD was on that, female, too. The fact that some men can produce offspring later is irrelevant. The majority has sperm decline from an early age anyway and older women would benefit from a younger sperm.

 

But again, why do we make it about fertility when it's not part of the equation most of the times?

 

because it is the drive that trumps all others. It's the motivation that put man on the moon (my and others' opinion). And your examples only make me think 'the exception proves the rule'.

ps you gave a bunch of monogamous examples, and I pulled a fact that all your examples amount to 5% of the whole. You're saying I shouldn't have written that?