guys who have slept around can be the most loyal of all

[danny in van]

There's a difference with what you're saying and what OP describes. If you read the rest of his posts, you'll see that that this poster is 44 years old, STILL dates 20 year old girls and his last long-term relationship was 7 years ago with a girl who who 19 when he first met her. I think OP's situation is totally different from what you're describing here (which I agree with to some extent).

 

OP here: actually YOU should re read the thread and get it right. I was with a girl FOR 7 yrs (when we met she was 19 OMG! she hadn't even thought of sex then and I corrupted her haha!) And I brought that up only to illustrate that I was 100% loyal for those 7 yrs and would've continued to be- but she ended it. AND my theory is I was happily loyal BECAUSE I had 'kicked alotta tires' by then and was content. Concept is the SAME as what this guy is describing.

ALL my inexperience buddies with wives are ALWAYS asking about my exploits and are really getting a vicarious thrill from it. Why? Well you know my theory by now...

[ScreamingTrees]

I doubt it'd feel that much different, Ross. If you're more worried about the girl doing all of the work and already coming with a ****load of experience, then find one who's slept around a lot who could possibly get bored with your lack of experience.

 

If not, and sex was never something that you needed to survive (like water or food), then find someone on your level and work together. Enjoy it, the sex'll only get better if you're both into it. If you're both willing to and enthusiastic about figuring out each other's bodies, it might not take all that long to learn how to leave each other screaming in ecstacy.

[ScreamingTrees]

OP here: actually YOU should re read the thread and get it right. I was with a girl FOR 7 yrs (when we met she was 19 OMG! she hadn't even thought of sex then and I corrupted her haha!) And I brought that up only to illustrate that I was 100% loyal for those 7 yrs and would've continued to be- but she ended it. AND my theory is I was happily loyal BECAUSE I had 'kicked alotta tires' by then and was content. Concept is the SAME as what this guy is describing.

ALL my inexperience buddies with wives are ALWAYS asking about my exploits and are really getting a vicarious thrill from it. Why? Well you know my theory by now...

 

Maybe it's because you try to make them feel lesser for their lifestyle choice and they're actually insecure/immature/weak willed to the point of having someone elses' subjective opinion influence them. I can jerk off, and that's no different to me than having sex with some random floosie. Actually, I've HAD random floosies do it, and they were all terrible and clumsy. I don't need some other girl to leave stretch marks and scratches on my willy, I know my body much better..

 

If I meet exactly what I'm looking for in a girl, trust me, I wouldn't want anyone else. If she's a perfect match for me physically and mentally.. or as close as I'll ever find, I'd never look elsewhere s'long as the feeling is mutual. Maybe I'm a rare breed..

 

The grass really isn't greener, people just have to learn to love what they have and let their grass grow. Some people will spend their whole lives climbing the fence over and over though.. They'll never be happy, they'll never know what they truly want.

[danny in van]

Oh okay, yeah I didn't read through the whole thread just off his initial post.

 

I would bet $1000 that silvermercy is a girl. And why do I even mention that? Well because lots of women tend to project HOW they think men should be- and is a fatal cause of relationships failing. Rather than accepting and working with/around that men are VERY diff from women. This is what we refer to as a rare 'cool' chick in my mind - one who accepts it. Cool chicks end up having great realtionships I notice cuz their man doesn't feel he's 'acting' the role she wants- he's being himself- and a guy will keep coming home to his caswtle when he can be himself.

The alternative is browbeating their man into a PC position that he parrots at dinner parties, pillow talk, in polite company (- but his 'real' side ends up rearing its head in deviant secret ways (which I'm 100% against- strip clubs, hookers etc when IN relationships) BECAUSE it's be jailed. Make something taboo/offlimits and we want it 10x more!

[ScreamingTrees]

BECAUSE it's be jailed. Make something taboo/offlimits and we want it 10x more!

 

No. I'm a guy, and I don't feel this way. This isn't gender specific. I want what I have, not what I don't have. I wouldn't be willing to give up what I have just to POSSIBLY gain what I don't have.. The people they're cheating on are not loyal to them, they're just as mentally f*cked as the guy who's cheating with 'em. It's not real love, they're both hurting some significant other - unless one of them just likes to screw around with married men/women - that's a fetish, not love.

 

Does it matter what it is that's off limits, btw? Is that how your brain works? So, if even drugs like meth are "off limits", does that make you want it 10x more? Sounds a bit immature.

[danny in van]

No. I'm a guy, and I don't feel this way. This isn't gender specific. I want what I have, not what I don't have. I wouldn't be willing to give up what I have just to POSSIBLY gain what I don't have.. The people they're cheating on are not loyal to them, they're just as mentally f*cked as the guy who's cheating with 'em. It's not real love, they're both hurting some significant other - unless one of them just likes to screw around with married men/women - that's a fetish, not love.

 

Does it matter what it is that's off limits, btw? Is that how your brain works? So, if even drugs like meth are "off limits", does that make you want it 10x more? Sounds a bit immature.

 

you want to debate the fact that we tend to want what we can't have, esp sexually? If so, I'm out...And since you think this is not gender specific, well I'm def out! You've been neutered and neutralized by the PC police, and I think you are simply appeasing the opposite sex. So much so that you've internalized it and can't even confess in an anonymous forum.

[danny in van]

Maybe it's because you try to make them feel lesser for their lifestyle choice and they're actually insecure/immature/weak willed to the point of having someone elses' subjective opinion influence them. I can jerk off, and that's no different to me than having sex with some random floosie. Actually, I've HAD random floosies do it, and they were all terrible and clumsy. I don't need some other girl to leave stretch marks and scratches on my willy, I know my body much better..

 

If I meet exactly what I'm looking for in a girl, trust me, I wouldn't want anyone else. If she's a perfect match for me physically and mentally.. or as close as I'll ever find, I'd never look elsewhere s'long as the feeling is mutual. Maybe I'm a rare breed..

 

The grass really isn't greener, people just have to learn to love what they have and let their grass grow. Some people will spend their whole lives climbing the fence over and over though.. They'll never be happy, they'll never know what they truly want.

 

what I'm reading is 'if I ever find the perfect girl, life will be perfect and I'll never cheat'. Well let's talk WHEN that happens and you have at least a few yrs (5+ at least) of track record with that girl. Cuz hypothesizing on how it should/could be really doesn't interest me.

[Negative Nancy]

Comments?

 

I think you're full of it.

 

The fact that after all your wild oat sowing the one you settled down with at 30 years of age was a ... 19 year old doesn't give much credibility to your "theory".

 

I think men are gonna cheat no matter what, because as somebody else said, men constantly desire other women. The inexperienced ones cheat as soon as someone looks their way and signals interest because they wanna catch up on what they've been missing out on. And the ones with lots of experience cheat because they get tired of the same ol', same ol' and then probably are gonna reminiscing the old days.

 

A man is only as faithful as his options.

[danny in van]

I think you're full of it.

 

The fact that after all your wild oat sowing the one you settled down with at 30 years of age was a ... 19 year old doesn't give much credibility to your "theory".

 

I think men are gonna cheat no matter what, because as somebody else said, men constantly desire other women. The inexperienced ones cheat as soon as someone looks their way and signals interest because they wanna catch up on what they've been missing out on. And the ones with lots of experience cheat because they get tired of the same ol', same ol' and then probably are gonna reminiscing the old days.

 

A man is only as faithful as his options.

 

So what age gap is allowed by you? If you think that gap is too big and a small age gap = success then you're simple of mind I think. Read more carefully - I was 100% loyal to that person (the age is irrelevant to my point) BECAUSE I'd been around. And I guess we''l have to agree to disagree but my main point in all this is- no I don't cheat because I had lotsa fun when single.

[silvermercy]

I would bet $1000 that silvermercy is a girl. And why do I even mention that? Well because lots of women tend to project HOW they think men should be- and is a fatal cause of relationships failing. Rather than accepting and working with/around that men are VERY diff from women. This is what we refer to as a rare 'cool' chick in my mind - one who accepts it. Cool chicks end up having great realtionships I notice cuz their man doesn't feel he's 'acting' the role she wants- he's being himself- and a guy will keep coming home to his caswtle when he can be himself.

The alternative is browbeating their man into a PC position that he parrots at dinner parties, pillow talk, in polite company (- but his 'real' side ends up rearing its head in deviant secret ways (which I'm 100% against- strip clubs, hookers etc when IN relationships) BECAUSE it's be jailed. Make something taboo/offlimits and we want it 10x more!

I think I mentioned I'm female in this thread before actually.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with your philosophizing and generalizing about women trying to project and "jail" men to do whatever they want. Most women don't. Men who think they are being "jailed" and want something more as a result are not being mature, they just act like spoilt children and teenagers.

I think with the "how men should be" talk you're going down the path of gender genetics and men's genetically wired role again and I think most posters here agreed (men included) that it's just pseudoscience. Nothing more nothing less.

 

OP here: actually YOU should re read the thread and get it right. I was with a girl FOR 7 yrs (when we met she was 19 OMG! she hadn't even thought of sex then and I corrupted her haha!) And I brought that up only to illustrate that I was 100% loyal for those 7 yrs and would've continued to be- but she ended it. AND my theory is I was happily loyal BECAUSE I had 'kicked alotta tires' by then and was content. Concept is the SAME as what this guy is describing.

Yes, that's exactly what I said, that you were with that girl FOR 7 years. And you met when she was 19. It's good that you mentioned it because in your OP I was almost agreeing with you. But then this put your post in a total different perspective. And I don't think you get yet what I'm saying: that you have NOT broken the pattern. In your OP you gave the impression this 7 year relationship was RECENT!! And I was ready to give you the benefit of doubt. But no, you're 44 and and STILL continue to date girls in their 20s. This makes you look extremely PREDATORY to any serious woman. I'm sorry. Deny it if you want. I'm just telling you how it is from a female perspective (long term one).

 

ALL my inexperience buddies with wives are ALWAYS asking about my exploits and are really getting a vicarious thrill from it. Why? Well you know my theory by now...

I think we covered that already and I even agreed with: that SOME experience is good but TOO MUCH is bad. If your buddies missed out even on the "SOME experience" then that's too bad for them. Of course they're gonna ask.

[danny in van]

I think I mentioned I'm female in this thread before actually.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with your philosophizing and generalizing about women trying to project and "jail" men to do whatever they want. Most women don't. Men who think they are being "jailed" and want something more as a result are not being mature, they just act like spoilt children and teenagers.

I think with the "how men should be" talk you're going down the path of gender genetics and men's genetically wired role again and I think most posters here agreed (men included) that it's just pseudoscience. Nothing more nothing less.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I said, that you were with that girl FOR 7 years. And you met when she was 19. It's good that you mentioned it because in your OP I was almost agreeing with you. But then this put your post in a total different perspective. And I don't think you get yet what I'm saying: that you have NOT broken the pattern. In your OP you gave the impression this 7 year relationship was RECENT!! And I was ready to give you the benefit of doubt. But no, you're 44 and and STILL continue to date girls in their 20s. This makes you look extremely PREDATORY to any serious woman. I'm sorry. Deny it if you want. I'm just telling you how it is from a female perspective (long term one).

 

I think we covered that already and I even agreed with: that SOME experience is good but TOO MUCH is bad. If your buddies missed out even on the "SOME experience" then that's too bad for them. Of course they're gonna ask.

 

I will try one last time to convey my point: I am 100% loyal when in relationships BECAUSE of my past. And there have been other LTR since the 7yr one (she was my fave and longest). My "pattern" which I would know much more than you is serial monogamy (but I hafta stress the monogamy thing again) . 'Til death do us part' is a religious slogan and no I don't buy it, so I don't look for it or expect it. I may choose to marry one day - but only if I find a very rare person- otherwise I'm gonna carry on as I like - not as our Catholic laced society deems relationships 'should' be.

 

And saying - "hey everyone here agrees with me, and you're talking pseudoscience" is a grade 8 approach and really is weightless to me. 'Most' people also believe a man in the sky made the earth.

And that males of all species including our own have completely different drives from females etc etc is pseudo science? I agree it's inconvenient for women(thus the backlash) but your position is 'no science'. It's idealization - like saying 'I wish there is a god, I hope there is a god, and I wish humans would stop warring'. I do too - but I don't see evidence for it- so I lead my life according to 'the facts' not as I wish the facts were.

[silvermercy]

I am 100% loyal when in relationships BECAUSE of my past.

But apart from that 7 year old relationship you didn't present any proof of anything long-term (5+ years). You may not cheat, fine, but you haven't been in anything else long-term to prove you CAN stay interested in a relationship to prove your "theory". (Clarification: I wasn't talking about cheating in any of my previous posts). Basically, all your relationships conveniently end at some point. And from the sound of things they usually involve chicks half your age. It's the most telling of all. I don't see why you tried to omit this fact in your OP. (Did you ever have a long-term relationship with a woman your age or older?? I'm curious now).

 

LOL Way to go from genetics to religion now... hahaha Really!? (And I'm not religious! LOL)

 

Nevermind, I think I'm outta here!! lol

[danny in van]

I think I mentioned I'm female in this thread before actually.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree with your philosophizing and generalizing about women trying to project and "jail" men to do whatever they want. Most women don't. Men who think they are being "jailed" and want something more as a result are not being mature, they just act like spoilt children and teenagers.

I think with the "how men should be" talk you're going down the path of gender genetics and men's genetically wired role again and I think most posters here agreed (men included) that it's just pseudoscience. Nothing more nothing less.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I said, that you were with that girl FOR 7 years. And you met when she was 19. It's good that you mentioned it because in your OP I was almost agreeing with you. But then this put your post in a total different perspective. And I don't think you get yet what I'm saying: that you have NOT broken the pattern. In your OP you gave the impression this 7 year relationship was RECENT!! And I was ready to give you the benefit of doubt. But no, you're 44 and and STILL continue to date girls in their 20s. This makes you look extremely PREDATORY to any serious woman. I'm sorry. Deny it if you want. I'm just telling you how it is from a female perspective (long term one).

 

I think we covered that already and I even agreed with: that SOME experience is good but TOO MUCH is bad. If your buddies missed out even on the "SOME experience" then that's too bad for them. Of course they're gonna ask.

 

And the fact that a 20 something voluntarily sleeps with me (without gifts and all that) is again inconvenient for most women, because it's a rude reminder to all other older women that men will and like to do this- if they can. And it's an ominous sign that they may be dumped once they are past their sexual prime- if they got a desireable guy w /options in the first place that is. But it's not predatory- hell she came up to me at a restaurant!Peoples' IQ are well set by the 20s (ie a girl is not smarter at 30-sure world wise, world weary etc but not smarter) So I can talk about the same tv shows with a girl my age. Wow!! Exciting- and it really offsets all her other baggage and countless relationships she's had. hahaha!

[silvermercy]

And the fact that a 20 something voluntarily sleeps with me (without gifts and all that) is again inconvenient for most women, because it's a rude reminder to all other older women that men will and like to do this- if they can. And it's an ominous sign that they may be dumped once they are past their sexual prime- if they got a desireable guy w /options in the first place that is. But it's not predatory- hell she came up to me at a restaurant!Peoples' IQ are well set by the 20s (ie a girl is not smarter at 30-sure world wise, world weary etc but not smarter) So I can talk about the same tv shows with a girl my age. Wow!! Exciting- and it really offsets all her other baggage and countless relationships she's had. hahaha!

Well then, if she's not a looking for a sugar-daddy and if she's not a gold-digger, then she's either very naive, or very desperate, or with very low self-esteem or with a fetish for older men. Or a combo. She simply doesn't sound like your average 20 year old girl. lol I'm 29 and I go eew...

 

I could make a whole essay about the IQ actually being developed as the years go by (there are many scientific studies for this) but again... why bother... lol

[danny in van]

But apart from that 7 year old relationship you didn't present any proof of anything long-term (5+ years). You may not cheat, fine, but you haven't been in anything else long-term to prove you CAN stay interested in a relationship to prove your "theory". (Clarification: I wasn't talking about cheating in any of my previous posts). Basically, all your relationships conveniently end at some point. And from the sound of things they usually involve chicks half your age. It's the most telling of all. I don't see why you tried to omit this fact in your OP. (Did you ever have a long-term relationship with a woman your age or older?? I'm curious now).

 

LOL Way to go from genetics to religion now... hahaha Really!? (And I'm not religious! LOL)

 

Nevermind, I think I'm outta here!! lol

 

Lots of people may say they're not religious, but blindly follow many conventions, codes etc that definitely sprung from religion - ie why do most get married in a church?? So many examples I could give...And sure I had LTR with girls close to my age. It's just now so many my age got fat, married, jaded, that it's very understandable (to other guys anyway) that I end up w / younger ones. I brought up religion cuz that is where our notion of one partner for life comes from. I'm not religious so why would I adopt that view?

[silvermercy]

Lots of people may say they're not religious, but blindly follow many conventions, codes etc that definitely sprung from religion - ie why do most get married in a church?? So many examples I could give...And sure I had LTR with girls close to my age. It's just now so many my age got fat, married, jaded, that it's very understandable (to other guys anyway) that I end up w / younger ones. I brought up religion cuz that is where our notion of one partner for life comes from. I'm not religious so why would I adopt that view?

If you can't see how messed up these two sentences are, then I can't help you. Sorry.

[danny in van]

Well then, if she's not a looking for a sugar-daddy and if she's not a gold-digger, then she's either very naive, or very desperate, or with very low self-esteem or with a fetish for older men. Or a combo. She simply doesn't sound like your average 20 year old girl. lol I'm 29 and I go eew...

 

I could make a whole essay about the IQ actually being developed as the years go by (there are many scientific studies for this) but again... why bother... lol

 

Nice try on the studies thing. No there aren't actually. Or if there is one, well far outweighed by hundreds saying otherwise.

And about girl I'm seeing: well let's say you saw this guy who you found very attractive. Didn't look, act or talk like others BECAUSE his lifestyle created this...would you deny your attraction and walk away...or you could try to find a replica of him 20yrs younger (that won't work).

See some girls know that rare CERTAIN older guys (small minority) actually are the most appealing because they have it all going on. And they can tell he's not desperate for sex like 20 somethings, which of course is a universal turnoff. The most sought after wines need aging to reach their peak.

[Negative Nancy]

The most sought after wines need aging to reach their peak.

 

obviously that doesn't apply to the women you choose to settle down with...

[silvermercy]

Nice try on the studies thing. No there aren't actually. Or if there is one, well far outweighed by hundreds saying otherwise.

And about girl I'm seeing: well let's say you saw this guy who you found very attractive. Didn't look, act or talk like others BECAUSE his lifestyle created this...would you deny your attraction and walk away...or you could try to find a replica of him 20yrs younger (that won't work).

See some girls know that rare CERTAIN older guys (small minority) actually are the most appealing because they have it all going on. And they can tell he's not desperate for sex like 20 somethings, which of course is a universal turnoff. The most sought after wines need aging to reach their peak.

I had a FULL weekend seminar where psychologists from around the world came to my University during my PhD to give talks on the development of brain development, intelligence and its increase with age (save for neurodysfunctional syndromes). So, OK, go find the other hundred articles that say otherwise. I know what I heard.

 

Um... no... When I see an older guy I think the opposite: he's either trying to get into my pants or to relive his youth etc, and that would add to the creep factor. The older guys who have everything going are extremely rare, and I wonder why you put yourself in this category. You are not. Just those two sentences I quoted in my previous post would be a dealbreaker - especially the fact about older women being jaded. (Btw, you have to look like a 44 year old Brad Pitt if you want to call older women fat etc.)

 

And seriously! Can't you see the total HYPOCRICY with men and the "aging wine" metaphor!?

[Woggle]

I am with an older woman so don't get on me for this but if he prefers younger women so be it. If they are both of legal age and willing that is their business.

 

I also agree with the part about a woman letting a man be himself. When a man feels like he can be him around his woman most of the time he will be loyal and go that extra effort. When he feels like she is the nag he needs to get away from then he will do everything to stay away. I know men who work late just to avoid going home. I am in a relationship where I feel I can actually breathe for the first time.

[silvermercy]

I am with an older woman so don't get on me for this but if he prefers younger women so be it. If they are both of legal age and willing that is their business.

 

I also agree with the part about a woman letting a man be himself. When a man feels like he can be him around his woman most of the time he will be loyal and go that extra effort. When he feels like she is the nag he needs to get away from then he will do everything to stay away. I know men who work late just to avoid going home. I am in a relationship where I feel I can actually breathe for the first time.

Your situation is totally different from what OP tried to imply in his post. The problem I have is that he's trying to prove a "theory" by presenting himself as an example. He just can't, judging by his circumstances.

Edited February 24, 2012 by silvermercy

[Nightsky]

You dated a 19 year old for 7 years, you beat the odds. (I realize she wasn't 19 all 7 of those years but you know what I mean)

 

Beta males spread rumors, you're kidding right?

[Woggle]

Your situation is totally different from what OP tried to imply in his post. The problem I have is that he's trying to prove a "theory" by presenting himself as an example. He just can't, judging by his circumstances.

 

True but his theory is not that off. Formers players tend to be the most loyal but they are very picky about who they are loyal to.

[silvermercy]

True but his theory is not that off. Formers players tend to be the most loyal but they are very picky about who they are loyal to.

Hmm... I haven't encountered that yet. (And I'd rather not in the future). If they exist, they are very few. Also, I was mostly talking about general interest levels and dedication to a relationship (not necessarily cheating). Even the "loyal players" (it sounds like an oxymoron, lol) can get bored very easily. It doesn't mean they will cheat but it doesn't mean they're gonna have lasting relationships either. The odds are stacked against this.

[Woggle]

Hmm... I haven't encountered that yet. (And I'd rather not in the future). If they exist, they are very few. Also, I was mostly talking about general interest levels and dedication to a relationship (not necessarily cheating). Even the "loyal players" (it sounds like an oxymoron, lol) can get bored very easily. It doesn't mean they will cheat but it doesn't mean they're gonna have lasting relationships either. The odds are stacked against this.

 

To me it makes them more loyal because being a player teaches a man about women better than being some nice guy beta does. In my two years as a player I learned more about women and how to have a successful relationship than I did in my entire life.

 

Also when I found a great woman I don't wonder what else is out there. I know what else is out there and it pales in comparison to what I have already.