JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Look at it from her end. She got to have sex with someone else, 50+ times over a year. Win for her. She didn't lose her marriage. Win for her. She "allows ", you to have a weekend romp (which you have agonized about) and which she doesn't really care about, in order to keep control of you. Win for her. She got everything she wanted, and you are left with the scraps of a bad marriage. Sound good to you?
Author BetrayedH Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 If it's like this one from their website, this is not the type of thing a woman gives to her lover--it's a friendship bracelet. http://www.tommybahama.com/TBG/Big_and_Tall/Accessories/PRD_TBCB034/Byzantine+Leather+Bracelet.jsp That's the one. It's a nice match to my faggy watch. You really need to find something better to do with your time.
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 I'm sorry if I come across as harsh, but as a former OM, I can see this turning out real bad. If you had a revenge affair to re-assert yourself, with or without her permission, I would have said it was a positive thing. But to do it in this manner, does nothing to show you are in control of anything.
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Betrayed, you have been giving a lot of good advice about the "revenge affair" but it has ALL been predicated on the assumption that your wife is a basically honest person. This , given she had a 1 year affair, isn't an assumption you should make. She now knows that she can get away with an affair with minimum fallout. And if you don't think she has considered this, I have some swamp land I'd like to sell you.
anne1707 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Betrayed, you have been giving a lot of good advice about the "revenge affair" but it has ALL been predicated on the assumption that your wife is a basically honest person. This , given she had a 1 year affair, isn't an assumption you should make. She now knows that she can get away with an affair with minimum fallout. And if you don't think she has considered this, I have some swamp land I'd like to sell you. Joe - I assume you trust and believe your wife yet she was a WS who had an affair with you so she obviously has lied and deceived her exH. Just because someone lied in the past, does not mean they continue to lie.
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Anne, with all due respect, you are an incurable optimist. This may make you feel better, but it "ain't necessarily so".
anne1707 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 If you're the one who was cheated on, you can't just assume the cheater is being honest because you want it to be that way. Even if JustJoe's wife cheated on an ex that doesn't mean she ever cheated on JustJoe, or that he has any specific reason to believe she would. Kind of a low shot you just took there, isn't it? Actually I think Joe is taking the low shot by implying the OPs wife continues to lie when I am sure Joe's wife does not lie now (and no, I am not saying she ever lied to Joe either but she did lie to her H). The issue is whether someone is committed to the relationship. I lied to my H in the past but I don't now and have not done so for years. I know you want to believe unfaithful wives represent the depths of depravity but people can and do change.
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Yes Anne, my wife doesn't lie, but I continue to verify, nontheless.
anne1707 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Anne, with all due respect, you are an incurable optimist. This may make you feel better, but it "ain't necessarily so". And you are the incurable cynic but it too ain't necessarily so
Owl Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 You know...Joe could be right, and BH's wife could be a cold, calculating, plotting individual who is simply minimizing the damage and whiling away the time until she can cheat again. Or...others could be right, and it might not be a facade, but she truly could have learned a painful lesson from watching BH deal with the devestation she created by cheating on him. No way to tell for sure from our side of the internet. The only person who is in a position to decide what to do with this situation is BH. He's following what he believes is his best course of action. Contrary to what ANY of us here on LS have recommended...he's been taking his own course. I think he made a major mistake with his "revenge" plan. He did it anyway. Others think he's making a major mistake by trying to reconcile with his wife. He's doing it anyway. There ya go. At this point, we wait and see how things play out for him.
Author BetrayedH Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 Look at it from her end. She got to have sex with someone else, 50+ times over a year. Win for her. She didn't lose her marriage. Win for her. She "allows ", you to have a weekend romp (which you have agonized about) and which she doesn't really care about, in order to keep control of you. Win for her. She got everything she wanted, and you are left with the scraps of a bad marriage. Sound good to you? I don't take offense to your position. I certainly understand that perspective, all of the recommendations to be more alpha, and so forth. It just doesn't accurately represent what is happening in my world. There ARE evil, narcissistic, serial cheaters in the world. And they play games or even go to war with their spouse. My wife is not one of those people. "Not Just Friends" was a terribly difficult book to read because it laid out the whole development of her affair to a T. There were certainly conscious decisions that were made and it speaks to a broken character (which she is working diligently on) but the reality is that some people fall into the trappings of a workplace relationship during a struggling time in their marriage, they don't have good boundaries because they don't know of the potential and bam, it's on and nearly impossible to stop once the addiction starts. Sadly, we have all been taught to look for the worst case scenario. Welcome to hypervigilance (also part of a predictable pattern). What you fail to understand is that my actions and decisions are NOT about winning. That's what people try to do in wars and games. I'm not at war with her and I'm not playing a game. I'm trying to find us both a path to a loving relationship that lasts the rest of our lives. Becoming an "alpha" would be a great way to control her. As a matter of fact, EVERY TIME I do it, it works. I can list a good half-dozen times in the last six months. It's amazing. I never knew! What a discovery. She absolutely feeds off of it. I can absolutely control her. Which is completely worthless to me. That's not a marriage. It's...something else that I'm not interested in. I can say that I will be more "alpha" in many ways in our partnership. In too many respects, I was happy to let her lead the household. I lead in my workplace all day; I didn't feel a need to do it at home, especially since she was very competent. But I've discovered that she does want her husband to take charge of some things and to even lead her in some respects. Taken to an extreme, it's disrespectful and evil. Sleeping with someone else was alpha enough for this situation and she was in the beta position of accepting it. You choose to spin it in a different fashion. That's your prerogative but it's not accurate. I simply know my situation better than you. She showed me a side I didn't know was possible. Fair enough. I'm not so naive anymore. I am also hypervigilant. It's a disorder that spreads by virtual contact on infidelity forums and I'm working on it. The cure is to be smarter than the worst case scenario, paranoid delusions that result from fear and to realize that the reality is rarely at the extremes. Your brain has just been taught to protect itself and you have to work your way out of it.
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Owl, I agree. What I'm trying to do with Betrayed, is act as a "devil's advocate". Ultimately, he will find out the truth, either good or bad. What I'm most interested in, is that he take control of his situation. Act.....don't react.
anne1707 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Owl, I agree. What I'm trying to do with Betrayed, is act as a "devil's advocate". Ultimately, he will find out the truth, either good or bad. What I'm most interested in, is that he take control of his situation. Act.....don't react. Ditto! Although I think both he and his wife need to take control of the situation TOGETHER. It's a joint marriage that needs both of them in it 100% if it is ever to stand a chance of survival. It can be done but there are absolutely no guarantees
Author BetrayedH Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 It is what it is. (I don't get the point of the homophobic reference but whatever.) The point is it's not precious metal--silver or gold, or at least silver or gold plated. I agree that most men couldn't give a hoot about the materials used in their fashion accessories. As far as I'm concerned a bracelet could be made out of a piece of twisted duct tape. I don't wear jewelry so it's not really important to me. But women do care. A lot. Giving you something made of leather as a symbol of the relationship is like giving you a pair of gloves for Christmas. She is telling you something very significant about how she feels about your relationship with this gift which you do not want to listen to. If a man tried to express his love for a woman by getting her something made out of leather for an important occasion it would generally sink like a lead balloon. You are so eager to please her that even this kind of a lukewarm gift is interpreted by you as something other than what it really is. No offense intended to gays in general or in particular, those that prefer not to be associated with beta cuckolds.
anne1707 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 If a man tried to express his love for a woman by getting her something made out of leather for an important occasion it would generally sink like a lead balloon. About 10 years ago, my H came to pick me up from work. Some electricians had been doing some work in my office and there were some scrap pieces of wiring left lying around. Whilst waiting for me, he picked some of these pieces for me and twisted them into a bracelet for me which he slipped on my wrist as we were leaving. I still have that bracelet and still wear it at times.
bentnotbroken Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Betrayed, So she buys you a present, says she's sorry and lets you have a quickie with another woman , and she is the love of your life again? Your really don't see what she is doing? She is playing the music and you are dancing to it. There are three reasons for ALL that she's done. 1. to assuage her guilt (she isn't remorseful at all) 2. to keep control of you 3. to keep her comfortable lifestyle intact. Remember, she would STILL be f88king him if you had not caught her. Is this the kind of life you want? Is she the kind of manipulator you need? Is he the kind of husband she wants? The manipulator she needs? Is the kind of life she wants? These questions may be fair to ask, but two people with not so great coping skills( sarcasm intended) ....if they want each other, what is the problem?
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Ditto! Although I think both he and his wife need to take control of the situation TOGETHER. It's a joint marriage that needs both of them in it 100% if it is ever to stand a chance of survival. It can be done but there are absolutely no guaranteesAnne, his wife already has most of the control, and doesn't seem, from his posts, to be too willing to relinquish any to him, and he seems reluctant to force the issue. I completely agree that BOTH need to work to repair the marriage, but FIRST she needs to PROVE, by actions that she is trustworthy. Frankly, from his posts, I don't see any remorse at all. If she had respect for the marital bed, she would never been as "on board", with his "revenge affair" as she seems to be .
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Is he the kind of husband she wants? The manipulator she needs? Is the kind of life she wants? These questions may be fair to ask, but two people with not so great coping skills( sarcasm intended) ....if they want each other, what is the problem?No problem, Bent. But take off the blinders.
frozensprouts Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 betrayedh, about being hypervigalant...it's probably a pretty normal self protective mechanism...i think a lot of us who have reconciled have been there ( some still are) and uderstand how you feel. it's one of those things that can improve with time, but one has to be willing to let it get better- ot sounds like you are doing just that my husband cheated with a woman he works with...after the afair ended and he came back from deployment, they were still working together. it was really hard at first, but after a while he showed me that I could trust him again, but that didn't happen overnight. the leather bracelet she gave you sounds nice...it also sounds like she put some thought into it...that's good it very much sounds like the two of you have chosen to reconcile and I, being the big softie that I am, have to say that I like that. may I make a suggestion? Would you consider starting a thread ( if you feel okay sharing) that deals with the process of your reconciliation? I have a feeling it would be very helpful to more than just a few peope out there who are just starting the process as well...
anne1707 Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Anne, his wife already has most of the control, and doesn't seem, from his posts, to be too willing to relinquish any to him, and he seems reluctant to force the issue. I completely agree that BOTH need to work to repair the marriage, but FIRST she needs to PROVE, by actions that she is trustworthy. Frankly, from his posts, I don't see any remorse at all. If she had respect for the marital bed, she would never been as "on board", with his "revenge affair" as she seems to be . I agree it is all very confusing and has become increasingly complicated. The problem is that it is very easy to make assumptions about BH's wife and what she is thinking or feeling. However she is not posting here so we could all be completely wrong. At the end of the day, what counts is what works for BH whether that means being with his wife or not.
frozensprouts Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 About 10 years ago, my H came to pick me up from work. Some electricians had been doing some work in my office and there were some scrap pieces of wiring left lying around. Whilst waiting for me, he picked some of these pieces for me and twisted them into a bracelet for me which he slipped on my wrist as we were leaving. I still have that bracelet and still wear it at times. that's nice...shows he was thinking of you:) it's the thought put into a gift that counts...i'd rather have something free that had thought behind it than something expensive and meaningless (ugh... this is getting sappy...cue the violins:laugh:)
JustJoe Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Betrayed, I never said anything about WINNING. What I'm concerned about is equality. Right now, from your posts, you are the sub and she is the dom. If you like it like that, no problem. But, IME, I have never met a woman who didn't respond favorably to a confident man. If you take charge, her respect for you will grow, proportionately.
findingnemo Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 Quantum, While you advocate that posters address the particular poster's situation, you tend to go on the attack of whichever poster you disagree with. Take your own advice. Who made you the judge of which angle the poster is coming from? Paleeze!! Who made you the police of everybody's posts?
2sunny Posted November 17, 2011 Posted November 17, 2011 I, too, am more concerned about further down the road. At this point, she's much more concerned about how her actions have caused me to do things that are clearly outside of my character. She's really taken this on herself. I've said that while it may be true that it would not have happened without her affair, I also have to own my own decisions. It's been healthy dialogue. But I am also concerned about what happens when the shock wears off. I went thru the same thing. Blamed myself for her affair and then later experienced the resentment. Trying to get ahead of it. She is still dealing with my dishonesty while I was asking for honesty: the part of my affair that was an affair. That's the betrayal that hurts. I'm working on repairing it. I also need to take a moment to give her some props. When she got home last night, she presented me with a gift. It was the last thing I expected. Before I opened it, she said it was meant as a symbol of how committed she was to our marriage. It was a nice leather bracelet from Tommy Bahama. She said that since it was leather, it was imperfect (much like we are) and would change and weather over time but it would still be a daily reminder of her commitment to me. She said she was glad I was home, more than I would ever know. I don't do it justice here but it was a moving experience. To receive that when I had just arrived home from spending days with the OW. I was just hoping not to be divorced. Boy, what a master manipulator she is, huh? (note: sarcasm intended). Thus, the hydra's words fall on deaf ears. Her affair was straight out of "Not Just Friends" and she's been remorseful as hell. I have no problem if this releases some of her guilt. Good. I love my wife. she believes she MADE you do things that are out of character for YOU? it's not possible - it IS your character! YOU made a conscious decision to have sex with another woman - NO ONE forced you. it isn't her fault - you were relishing in this revenge tactic and took full advantage of the opportunity. THAT is YOUR character. no two ways about it... a person's actions tell you what their character is made of. you like revenge. now your wife knows you are capable of hurting her - same (but different) way she hurt you. with such negative energy being thrown into this M - you can expect to work extra hard at big doses of positive energy to recover from the negativity that's been added to this mix. it's all fair in love, right?
Author BetrayedH Posted November 17, 2011 Author Posted November 17, 2011 Betrayed, I never said anything about WINNING. What I'm concerned about is equality. Right now, from your posts, you are the sub and she is the dom. If you like it like that, no problem. But, IME, I have never met a woman who didn't respond favorably to a confident man. If you take charge, her respect for you will grow, proportionately. Dude, you apparently can't remember what you posted. You mentioned her "wins" three times in one post. She's not trying to win. And you apparently missed the entire point of my response.
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