Author OceanGirl Posted October 5, 2010 Author Posted October 5, 2010 Even at work, I talk myself down all the time. I exaggerate my negatives. I actually feel that I am being funny - but I am starting to realize that most people simply don't see or care to look beneath that. When I am evaluating a person, I completely strip away how they present themselves and look deeper. Seems like I am the only one.
Kamille Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Even at work, I talk myself down all the time. I exaggerate my negatives. I actually feel that I am being funny - but I am starting to realize that most people simply don't see or care to look beneath that. When I am evaluating a person, I completely strip away how they present themselves and look deeper. Seems like I am the only one. Yes, most people expect others to present themselves honestly. Speaking from the perspective of academia, the habit of talking oneself down is actually at the center of much debates. While people seem to tolerate it in students, since I've crossed the line, I've had people openly tell me it looks disingenuous when academics put themselves down. It looks like someone looking for validation. You're in academia because people believe you have something to contribute. They know, even if you don't, that you have the abilities to make it. It's fine to be insecure the first few years, but at one point people expect you to step out of the margin and enter the academic conversations as a full and legitimate participant.
Author OceanGirl Posted October 5, 2010 Author Posted October 5, 2010 I don't think I ever saw anybody here question your intelligence, looks, talent. You have every right to be as confident about dating as SG. In fact, I think that's why so many of us spend so much time hoping you will start "marketing yourself better". I for one pray you abandon the self-destructive thoughts where you feel you have to settle, force things along or the need to measure guy's interest. Don't measure interest, expect it. If you don't feel a connection, move on. Stop selling yourself short. Apart form people calling me insane But thanks Kamille, you have been nothing but kind and patient with me. Your advice always gives me a lot to think about. Part of it can even be a cultural difference. I was born and spent my teenage years in Eastern Europe. People are very different over there. In many ways, they are more old fashioned. My parents have raised me to be humble. Confidence is not something that is valued highly over there and in turn, I don't value it at all. I actually find confident people mostly annoying. My brother is the same. He constantly dates down because he sells himself short in every way. Then I moved here, and by being humble, people are constantly underestimating me in every way and walking all over me. It is hard for me to become confident overnight. Even in college, I would actually lie to my friends that I got lower marks than I did because I felt it was bad to brag.
Andy_K Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 A little late, but couldn't you just have told the guy it was the wrong time of the month? Something like "Hey, I'm afraid we can't have sex tonight cause I'm peeing blood like a fire hydrant" I'm sure he'd get the message.
Cee Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Drafting an ending it email is perfectly fine. I've had two guys do that with me. One did it very well (ended it after 1 date) & the other did it rudely and coldly (after 3 dates). Here's a draft of the good email: I had a really enjoyable time with you on Saturday. You're an interesting person and I found it very easy to communicate. Honestly though, I didn't feel a spark (which I roughly correlate to your 'dings') Thanks again for the great company and I'm sure we'll bump into each other at a party. Take Care, XXX I think a phone call would be more appropriate. Every time I've ended an online dating experience, I have done it over the phone. The advantage of the phone is I get a sense of where they stood with the dating. Only one guy fought me on the phone, and ironically, he was probably dating many women. I think his ego was nicked a bit. I think face to face is only necessary when it gets to the boyfriend/girlfriend stage. And in your situation, f2f sounds like a bad idea anyway. Try not to agonize too much over ending it. It's uncomfortable and brings up some feelings of loss, but it's not hugely shattering for anyone. Cee
Star Gazer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Funny that you mention Star. The only real difference between her and me is that she is confident and I am not. She talks herself up constantly and people buy that. I, on the other hand repeat over and over again that I am emotionally ****ed up. Of course, people buy that too. Yet I actually don't believe that Star is any more capable than me in any way (looks, intelligence, talent etc) - she just markets herself better. Honestly, this is straight insulting. I don't "talk myself up." I'm honest about who I am. We both may be attractive, intelligent blondes with big boobs, but all similarities end there. Our personalities are so incredibly different, for you to think I'm anything like you is just....wrong.
Star Gazer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Drafting an ending it email is perfectly fine. I've had two guys do that with me. One did it very well (ended it after 1 date) & the other did it rudely and coldly (after 3 dates). Here's a draft of the good email: I had a really enjoyable time with you on Saturday. You're an interesting person and I found it very easy to communicate. Honestly though, I didn't feel a spark (which I roughly correlate to your 'dings') Thanks again for the great company and I'm sure we'll bump into each other at a party. Take Care, XXX She's been dating the guy for over a month and they've had sex three times. I hope SACWA/OG does the right thing and actually talks to him about this, at the very least over the phone, but not through an email. I'm not sure how she's going to explain why she initiated sex with him 3 times if she didn't feel a spark, or how she can lie and say it was very easy to communicate with him when she found him boring and felt like she was pulling teeth trying to engage him in conversation. I think the best thing to say is: "I just don't feel that we have that 'special something' that is necessary for a long-term relationship to work, and that is what I'm looking for."
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Sacwa, please READ THiS even though you don't want to: Sphere, I am drafting him good bye e-mail as we speak,. That is really good news. I am sorry for him and you that there were mega emotional quagmires, drama, angst, game playing, disrespect of yourself and another human, using of another person for (your) personal "needs," all for the sake of ... what? Not even a "relationship." Just a few dates that are meant, socially, to allow people to get to know one another in order to make an informed decision about whether to carry it further and if so, to what goal. Funny that you mention Star. The only real difference between her and me is that she is confident and I am not. She talks herself up constantly and people buy that. I, on the other hand repeat over and over again that I am emotionally ****ed up. Of course, people buy that too. Yet I actually don't believe that Star is any more capable than me in any way (looks, intelligence, talent etc) - she just markets herself better. Well, I can only address what you and Star present of yourselves here on LS, but I vehemently disagree with that. Looks, intelligence, and talent wise you may be comparable. You both present as smart, have careers that demand brains and talent, and I don't know what Star looks like but you certainly are a great looking young woman. Here is the GiGANTiC difference (from what I have learned only here): Star is NOT out there in her life to "talk herself up" and to "market" herself via her confidence. Her confidence is who she IS. Yes, many people love that. It can be very magnetic. Men, or other women who dislike confident women might not like Star, and she probably is fine with that. Her core "personhood" is developed. She knows who she is. She knows what she likes and what she does not. She (I gather from reading her threads) LEARNED how unacceptable FOR HERSELF it was when she defined herself through a relationship and lost track of her own way during that time. I imagine that she will be on guard for that going forward and that she WiLL NOT let it happen again. She has been ACCOUNTABLE for her own part in her problems. She learned that the results of HER behavior were negative for HER, and she does not want to repeat the experience. I don't "stalk" your threads, sacwa, but people who post many threads about themselves and get lots of response gain my attention and I look into their history. I see that you do the same thing over and over, love to talk about it and garner attention, and so far have not been willing to choose another course and stay with it. At all. You mentioned BPD before and your patterns are very familiar to me. I have a sibling with BPD whose life is a horrible mess and who is toxic to all who get close. NOBODY should get close to that person. My mother may have had it. Life with here was hellish. Further, I myself was diagnosed with it when I was young. I ended up a totally self destructive drug addict and through the recovery process from that (12 step program), I had to face ALL the realities about MY behavior ... how it was destroying me and how horrible it was to other people. I changed myself drastically. I am on CONSTANT guard against those traits that I know I possess, and have been for 23 years. Maybe it was lucky for me that I turned out to be a drug addict with two suicide attempts, sacwa. There was no way I could keep sliding around the truth that I had no "self" and that I was living in a way where all other people were present to fill the bottomless void inside me ... and failing that, I used drugs. When I came to the bottom of that life, I had a blinding encounter with the truth about ME and with what I would need to do to be different, to have a good life, to BE a good partner for another person and to have a lot to offer other people, including a child. Like you (and Shadow), I was very intelligent, highly rewarded for my brains and artistic talents, greatly educated and pretty entranced with how "special" I was. If I didn't bring myself to the level of a bottom feeder, I may have been able to carry on with that empty misery for whatever lifetime I managed to have. With real care and love to you, sacwa, I hope and pray that you come to a place where you are able to take YOURSELF by the horns and do the work necessary to enable YOURSELF to have a fulfilling life. Life is a beautiful gift.
Cee Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 She's been dating the guy for over a month and they've had sex three times. I hope SACWA/OG does the right thing and actually talks to him about this, at the very least over the phone, but not through an email. I'm not sure how she's going to explain why she initiated sex with him 3 times if she didn't feel a spark, or how she can lie and say it was very easy to communicate with him when she found him boring and felt like she was pulling teeth trying to engage him in conversation. I think the best thing to say is: "I just don't feel that we have that 'special something' that is necessary for a long-term relationship to work, and that is what I'm looking for." Yes, a phone call is preferable. That is what I said in my post. I always do a "breaking up" call, which is a general conversation about me not wanting to go further. I simply tell them that I don't want to see them anymore. No explanations necessary. I think explanations are needlessly cruel because they involve half-truths and lies. One guy ended it in June by saying there was another woman that he liked. That was a lie b/c he was still logging onto OKC every day. I wish the OP the best with her ending it experience.
CLC2008 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 OP from your avie alone, you are very beautiful. And I do not doubt, that you garner attention wherever you go. (I know I do ). But, don't market yourself, for the sake of "marketing yourself". Internal, not external. Start from there, draw from there, amend, manage and recycle. Anyone can talk the talk. But you also have to be able to walk the line.
Star Gazer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 OP from your avie alone, you are very beautiful. And I do not doubt, that you garner attention wherever you go. (I know I do ). Internal, not external. Good job helping her focus on the internal, by focusing on her appearance.
CLC2008 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Good job helping her focus on the internal, by focusing on her appearance. Aren't you doing the same thing by working out fitness wise?
Star Gazer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Aren't you doing the same thing by working out fitness wise? Um, no. Not at all. I workout for FITNESS purposes, so that I'm stronger and faster and healthier and feel better and more energetic and so that I can ski hard runs. Don't make this about me. I don't seek external validation.
CLC2008 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Um, no. Not at all. I workout for FITNESS purposes, so that I'm stronger and faster and healthier and feel better and more energetic and so that I can ski hard runs. Don't make this about me. I don't seek external validation. I wasn't making it about you. I made one statement with regard to the OP's photo. I wasn't doting on her or showering her with compliments with regard to her appearance. And, I disagree with your last statement. EVERYONE seeks external validation to some degree.
Untouchable_Fire Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Um, no. Not at all. I workout for FITNESS purposes, so that I'm stronger and faster and healthier and feel better and more energetic and so that I can ski hard runs. Don't make this about me. I don't seek external validation. True, but if you ever want a little external validation... most guys here would be happy to provide.
Star Gazer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 And, I disagree with your last statement. EVERYONE seeks external validation to some degree. Nope, not everyone. I don't.
Untouchable_Fire Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I wasn't making it about you. I made one statement with regard to the OP's photo. I wasn't doting on her or showering her with compliments with regard to her appearance. And, I disagree with your last statement. EVERYONE seeks external validation to some degree. I don't mean to butt into a discussion. However, in this case I think she ONLY feels good about her looks. I think its the only thing she can hang her hat on so to speak. The problem is that when it's the only kind of validation you can feel, the mirror is never as kind to you. Nobody is going to be able to compliment her into feeling better.
CLC2008 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I don't mean to butt into a discussion. However, in this case I think she ONLY feels good about her looks. I think its the only thing she can hang her hat on so to speak. The problem is that when it's the only kind of validation you can feel, the mirror is never as kind to you. Nobody is going to be able to compliment her into feeling better. You're not butting in, it's a public open forum.
sweetjasmine Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Even at work, I talk myself down all the time. I exaggerate my negatives. I actually feel that I am being funny - but I am starting to realize that most people simply don't see or care to look beneath that. That's because it isn't funny after a while. The occasional self-deprecating joke can be funny, but if you do it all the time, it says that you really do think those negative things about yourself, and that's not particularly attractive. People don't normally gravitate to those who act like they hate themselves. When I am evaluating a person, I completely strip away how they present themselves and look deeper. Seems like I am the only one. That's because most people take others at face value, and I'd bet that most of those people don't think you should have to put on a mask and act like someone else when interacting with others. Why should you have to strip away how someone presents themselves? How they present themselves should be genuine. There should be no need to dig deeper to figure out who they are. If you have to, they're faking it and pretending - that's dishonest and it says that they don't feel good enough about themselves to be open with people. That you don't even see this suggests that you still don't understand what your problems are. And this is why you're assuming that you and SG are anything alike. From reading her posts on here, she doesn't seem to be faking it at all. Maybe she's a master troll and she's really a 50 year old obese man who sits in the basement at his mom's house in a cheetos-stained tank top messing with everyone on this board, but what she writes clearly shows that she knows who she is and is happy with herself. She wouldn't be able to write the things she does or give the advice she gives if she were faking it. I've had people openly tell me it looks disingenuous when academics put themselves down. It looks like someone looking for validation. It really does look like that, and in my experience, it's usually because they totally are looking for validation. Most of the people I met in academia were deeply insecure and were constantly trying to get validation through their work and through manipulating other people. It became incredibly uncomfortable to be in such a toxic environment where one person will smile at another when they're present and stab them in the back as soon as they walk out the door because it makes them feel a little more secure in their position. Academia is a never-ending loop of behaviors that enable insecurity and obsessive thoughts.
Serenitynow Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Ocean, Have you ever had a healthy sexual relationship with anyone?
USMCHokie Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Maybe she's a master troll and she's really a 50 year old obese man who sits in the basement at his mom's house in a cheetos-stained tank top messing with everyone on this board... Yea, that would not be cool at all...
sweetjasmine Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Yea, that would not be cool at all... I'm sorry for the mental image, Hokie!
Star Gazer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 That's because most people take others at face value, and I'd bet that most of those people don't think you should have to put on a mask and act like someone else when interacting with others. Why should you have to strip away how someone presents themselves? How they present themselves should be genuine. There should be no need to dig deeper to figure out who they are. It's called projection. She puts on airs with the people she interacts with, so she assumes everyone else does too.
Star Gazer Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Yea, that would not be cool at all... Don't even act like that... You know that's not true.
USMCHokie Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Don't even act like that... You know that's not true. I know... :love:
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