Is he just controlling me?

[Ellin]

Is you MM trying to control you? Yes, most likely but what's wrong with that? He is going to do whatever it takes to get himself out of this situation. Not your problem at this point! Don't worry about what he wants and what he is thinking. Worry about what you want. He can only control you if you allow him. Don't take him with you. That simple!

 

On the flip-side. It's kind of single sided to not understand why he would want to control you. Put yourself in his shoes. Let's be for real, we all know that it is too late for the "should've" "Could've". Yes, he got himself into this A but so did you, you allowed him to entertain it. Too late to cry over spilled milk. Can't blame him for acting however way he has acted...

If you were to be the MW and he was your OM and you got pregnant from anyone other than your H, you would be flipping your wig and wanting an abortion asap too. That's the way he feels. Doesn't mean that you have to understand him or make your decisions based on what he thinks and feels.

 

Good luck!

 

FYI- If you are in fact getting a scan with the objective of aborting, they DO NOT show you the monitor or anything that has to do with the scan. That's basically an influential issue when it comes to the procedure. A doctor is never going to make you keep a baby or abort a baby (unless there are medical reasons that require you to abort)

There definitely is something wrong with him trying to control he. He seems to be pretending to care about her while all he cares about is his own a**e or so it appears. Apart from that, he has no right to pressure her to have an abortion. He did the act and he should bear the consequences, if need be.

 

Your little lecture about how she would feel etc. was unneccessary and the example you gave is not even appropriate as it is a different situation when MW gets pregnant by OM than OW pregnant by MM.

[Fallen Angel]

Yes, I think he is trying to exert a bit of his own will upon you in this case. But I think it is only natural, after all, it is his child that you are carrying, too. Not just yours.

 

I think the whole situation is so emotionally charged, and all of us have such strong opinions about what we would like to see you do, or not do, that it should come as no suprise to anyone that he would have feelings that are much stronger than our own.

 

Thing is, I wonder if everyone would be trying to make him out to be such an "evil" person if he was attempting to sway you in the opposite direction; if he were trying to convince you to keep the baby would everyone think he was so horrible a human being? Not likely.

 

Men sadly have no real say in what happens to their unborn children. they have no rights. That is the way it is leaglly, but that does not make it right morally.

 

I often have wondered if the shoe were on the other foot, and only the father could make the decision as to whether a woman would be allowed to have a child or not if people would think that was fair and right? Highly doubtful.

 

Yet the way the law is written that is exactly the power a pregnant woman yeilds over the man by whom she is pregnant. If he wants her to abort and she decides to maintain the pregnancy, he has no say. If she wants to abort and he wants to keep the baby (even to raise it as a single father himself) he has no say.

 

I personally feel that it is abhorrent that a man has no say, since I have seen it destroy a good friend of mine when he and his SO FINALLY concieved, only for her to terminate the pregnancy with a baby that he wanted with all of his heart!!!

 

He has no real say in what you decide to do with this pregnancy, but I do not think him sharing his wishes with you, and even trying to sway you in that direction, automatically relegates him to the HORRIBLE EVIL BASTA*RD status that he seems to be getting made out to be.

 

Legally the choice is yours. Morally, perhaps you should have him attend a counseling session with you and the crisis counselor in order to fully explore all the options together.

 

But that is just my two cents. *shrug*

[Mimolicious]

There definitely is something wrong with him trying to control he. He seems to be pretending to care about her while all he cares about is his own a**e or so it appears. Apart from that, he has no right to pressure her to have an abortion. He did the act and he should bear the consequences, if need be.

 

Your little lecture about how she would feel etc. was unneccessary and the example you gave is not even appropriate as it is a different situation when MW gets pregnant by OM than OW pregnant by MM.

 

Ellin, you can think and say what you want. It's getting old how you want to be the LS's mind controlling... IF you have something to say, you are more than welcome to PM me. I wont be fitting my opinion to your suitable taste. NEXT!

 

It is what it is... In reality, this MM has his own feelings, ideas and will try to force them into actions. HE IS HUMAN AFTER ALL. Does Noelle need to comply with them? Absolutely not. Is he trying to control her? "TRYING"- keyword! It's totally up to her to allow him to do whatever it is that he wants to. Last we checked, she didn't get pregnant alone. Is he going to try to be an active voice in this? Yes. Why not? This affects his life as well. Does Noelle need to take that into consideration? That's for her to delegate.

 

No one ever plans for the "oopsies" in life, but as we can see, anything can happen...

[sally4sara]

Hey everyone... I don't know if you remember my situation a couple of weeks ago. I am pregnant by a MM who when he found out pushed really hard and dare I say agressive for an abortion.

 

So, two weeks ago I went to spend a few days at my parents (told them I had the flu, I was in fact very sick) and didn't talk to him at all. He tried to call me but I needed time away cause I was getting way too stressed out. My roommate told him where I was.

So, I got back about a week ago and he visited me at my place. He seemed upset and again mad because apparently I ''cut him off' but after fighting again for a little while he soothed and wanted to talk about what I want to do with this pregnancy.

I decided to be straight with him and not play games so I told him how I went to the doctor who confirmed the pregnancy with a blood test and how I have an appointment at an abortion clinic that week for counseling and I will go further from there. He seemed more calmed down, we talked some more about everything and left things on a positive note.

 

We met up for coffee the next day and then again the next one, he was calm, nice, I cried, he comforted etc.

I had counseling on Thursday and it went really well, I felt much better. He called me after it to see how it went, so we talked about that some more... I told him how they made another appointment for me to get a scan on Monday.

He asked whether he can take me, he really wants to be there.

 

Now I am suspicious. Do I let him take me and be there?

 

Cause a part of me thinks that maybe the way he behaved when I first told him was shock and panic and now he's calmed down. I want to clarify that he was always super nice all through our relationship and never even said a bad word to me or made me uncomfortable... I really cared for him and believe he cared for me too.

 

But another part of me thinks that maybe he wants to be there to control me in a way. Cause he knows that I am leaning towards terminating and I will make a final decision after the scan so he wants to be there to stir me in that direction and make sure I am not hesitating. And that this 'nice' act is purely because he knows he will catch more flies with honey... and that he is equally terrified and wants me to abort as the minute he found out.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I think he is being nice because you seem to be moving towards what he wants - this pregnancy terminated.

 

I think too, that you should keep him out of the visits and find someone else to go with you. It is not because I hate to think of a selfish person getting their way - it is because of the emotions you may have later down the road.

 

If you really do want this abortion and it is in YOUR best interest, then get one. But having him be part of the process could make the emotions you might experience after feel worse. You might experience regret. If he was part of it, that regret could manifest as feeling forced or like you catered to him even if this is the best decision for YOU.

 

And even if it is the best decision for you, it could lead to him thinking he can get you to do anything to please him, adding to his feelings of entitlement. If you want rid of him - it will just add to how long it will take to for getting him to leave you alone.

 

If you don't really want the abortion or you are uncertain, you don't need what is obviously HIS wants clouding that up for you.

[Ellin]

Ellin, you can think and say what you want. It's getting old how you want to be the LS's mind controlling... IF you have something to say, you are more than welcome to PM me. I wont be fitting my opinion to your suitable taste. NEXT!

 

It is what it is... In reality, this MM has his own feelings, ideas and will try to force them into actions. HE IS HUMAN AFTER ALL. Does Noelle need to comply with them? Absolutely not. Is he trying to control her? "TRYING"- keyword! It's totally up to her to allow him to do whatever it is that he wants to. Last we checked, she didn't get pregnant alone. Is he going to try to be an active voice in this? Yes. Why not? This affects his life as well. Does Noelle need to take that into consideration? That's for her to delegate.

 

No one ever plans for the "oopsies" in life, but as we can see, anything can happen...

I only comment on what you wrote and I don't understand the mind-controlling bit. You tried to picture a situation for the OP to imagine what her feelings would be like and I pointed out that the situation is pretty different from the one discussed.

 

I also said that MM trying to control OP's decision by pretending to have a different intentions - as it appears - is wrong. You say "this MM has his own feelings, ideas and will try to force them into actions". Just because someone has certain feelings is not a good enough reason to enforce them on others.

[stillafool]

Thanks... I'm scared for tomorrow.

I don't want to back out... I don't even want to see it. Will they show me the baby on a dating scan, or will I hear the heartbeat or something?

 

No and you don't have to look if you don't chose to. I think MM is trying to be responsible in your termination of the baby. I think it would be the easy solution to just give you the money and let your friend care for you after the abortion. You have to remember this is his baby too and he may grieve the loss as well.

[stillafool]

Is you MM trying to control you? Yes, most likely but what's wrong with that? He is going to do whatever it takes to get himself out of this situation. Not your problem at this point! Don't worry about what he wants and what he is thinking. Worry about what you want. He can only control you if you allow him. Don't take him with you. That simple!

 

On the flip-side. It's kind of single sided to not understand why he would want to control you. Put yourself in his shoes. Let's be for real, we all know that it is too late for the "should've" "Could've". Yes, he got himself into this A but so did you, you allowed him to entertain it. Too late to cry over spilled milk. Can't blame him for acting however way he has acted...

If you were to be the MW and he was your OM and you got pregnant from anyone other than your H, you would be flipping your wig and wanting an abortion asap too. That's the way he feels. Doesn't mean that you have to understand him or make your decisions based on what he thinks and feels.

 

Good luck!

 

FYI- If you are in fact getting a scan with the objective of aborting, they DO NOT show you the monitor or anything that has to do with the scan. That's basically an influential issue when it comes to the procedure. A doctor is never going to make you keep a baby or abort a baby (unless there are medical reasons that require you to abort)

 

I have to agree with this. You can't blame him for looking out for his own interest. Doesn't everyone? OP, at this point just worry about looking out for your own best interest. You have enough to worry about without giving MM's actions a second thought at this point.

[Ellin]

Yes, I think he is trying to exert a bit of his own will upon you in this case. But I think it is only natural, after all, it is his child that you are carrying, too. Not just yours.

 

I think the whole situation is so emotionally charged, and all of us have such strong opinions about what we would like to see you do, or not do, that it should come as no suprise to anyone that he would have feelings that are much stronger than our own.

 

Thing is, I wonder if everyone would be trying to make him out to be such an "evil" person if he was attempting to sway you in the opposite direction; if he were trying to convince you to keep the baby would everyone think he was so horrible a human being? Not likely.

That's true, because there's a difference between having sex and taking responsibility for possible consequences and having sex and running away from the said responsibility.

Men sadly have no real say in what happens to their unborn children. they have no rights. That is the way it is leaglly, but that does not make it right morally.

 

I often have wondered if the shoe were on the other foot, and only the father could make the decision as to whether a woman would be allowed to have a child or not if people would think that was fair and right? Highly doubtful.

Again, two different things. It is the woman who's body the baby grows in for 9 months and who does most of the child rearing and who's life becomes dramatically different.

Yet the way the law is written that is exactly the power a pregnant woman yeilds over the man by whom she is pregnant. If he wants her to abort and she decides to maintain the pregnancy, he has no say. If she wants to abort and he wants to keep the baby (even to raise it as a single father himself) he has no say.

My personal opinion comes into this but I think it's wrong as a principle to have sex without being ready for the consequences and it is too serious an issue to make it possible for a man to force a woman who wants to have her child to terminate it.

 

In the same way I really sympathise with men who lost their babies through abortion against their will. I really feel for them. I'm not sure if it could ever be imaginable to force an unwilling woman to go ahead with pregnancy, due to the fact that mother's health (physical and mental) is so closely connected with healthy development of the baby. There is no perfect solution here.

 

Ultimately, if the man is not happy with the fact a pregnancy occurred, he can just go away and live his life in the same way as always (and so many do). He might only be forced to pay some amount of money. A woman doesn't have that option. Whether she chooses to keep the baby, to terminate or give up for adoption, she's in for a lifetime of hardship of one kind or another.

 

Hope I'm not derailing this thread but I only reply to others who brought these issues into discussion but I'm not sure if this is helpful for the OP. I've already replied to her question.

[Mimolicious]

I only comment on what you wrote and I don't understand the mind-controlling bit. You tried to picture a situation for the OP to imagine what her feelings would be like and I pointed out that the situation is pretty different from the one discussed.

 

I also said that MM trying to control OP's decision by pretending to have a different intentions - as it appears - is wrong. You say "this MM has his own feelings, ideas and will try to force them into actions". Just because someone has certain feelings is not a good enough reason to enforce them on others.[/QUOTE]

 

Maybe you are misreading what I said or leaving out what I followed with. He can do and think whatever he likes. Noelle, you, me or God can't make him stop from doing so. However, doesn't mean he is right and doesn't mean he is wrong. He's entitled to that BUT it is a far stretch from his feelings and ideas becoming actual facts (actions). Only Noelle can make those sentiments into actions if she allows him or takes his POV into consideration.

 

We can't control what others do but we can control how their actions play out in our lives.

 

Why are we forgetting that the MM is in fact part of this? His stance may not be exactly where Noelle would have wanted it to be, but he is still part of it. Part of her decision making factors? He was, not anymore. This may be because his choice is not what she was really expecting and what she was deep down inside hoping for. Who knows?! Only she does.

 

If he would have agreed to go on with this pregnancy and provide all of the support he possibly could have (basically man up to his screwing), would we be having this conversation?

 

Maybe we would have been contributing with baby names...

 

Let's not cover the obvious. This dude is now painted on the wall because he is not measuring up to others expectations. Am I a fan? Obsufackenlutely not! but to say that he has no right to think as he does, is silly.

[Fallen Angel]

I only comment on what you wrote and I don't understand the mind-controlling bit. You tried to picture a situation for the OP to imagine what her feelings would be like and I pointed out that the situation is pretty different from the one discussed.

 

I also said that MM trying to control OP's decision by pretending to have a different intentions - as it appears - is wrong. You say "this MM has his own feelings, ideas and will try to force them into actions". Just because someone has certain feelings is not a good enough reason to enforce them on others.

 

 

What I think most people seem to be forgetting here is that her MM did not impregnante her without her consent. She knew the consequences of having sex. No one over the age of twelve these days is unaware that the only truly safe sex is no sex at all.

 

I, too, feel sorry for the position that the OP is in. But she did put herself in it. By the same token, the MM consented to impregnate her by the sheer act of putting his penis in her vagina. It was a risk they both took. They both consented to the possibility of pregnancy, and now BOTH of them should have the right to a say in what happens.

 

Look, I do not think the OP should be forced by the MM to abort a child that she wants, if that is the case. But I certainly defend his right to voice his wishes. The OP didn't make this child alone, nor should she unilaterally decide this man's future.

 

Any decision she makes will have long term, lasting effects on both parties. Not just on her.

 

It is so easy for people to stand on the outside and tell her to "keep the baby and make him pay", or "abort the baby and make him pay" (both of which are opinions that have been voiced on her threads. But the truth of it is that they jointly made the decision to get pregnant (they both knew that pregnancy was a possible outcome of their shared orgasms.) and so they should jointly decide what to do.

 

If she wants to keep the baby and he does not then she is legally free to make that choice. But I feel that she is morally obligated to at least really sit down and discuss it with him first. If she chooses to abort the child, she is also legally free to do so. But I think she should sit down and really discuss it with him.

 

There are many options available for pregnancy crisis counseling, and I am sure that he is free to join her when speaking with a counselor. Neither of them did this to each other, they willingly walked hand in hand into the fire and got burned, now they need to deal with it the same way they got in to it. Together.

 

I am struggling with everyone making him out to be a monster for voicing his desire to terminate the pregnancy. At least he hasn't just cut her off with some ridiculous NC line about wanting to focus on his marriage. He wants to be a part in the decision making, and while ultimately it is her choice, I think she owes it to him to at least hear him out; rather than assume he is just being a monster perhaps we can at least try to consider that he to is struggling with this decision. I am sure he thinks he is persuing the right course of action, no matter how faulty his logic may be.

 

Honestly, people on this board with no vested interest have sunk to some pretty low levels trying to sway the OP in her decision making, don't you think that the father of the child has just as much right to try to do the same?

Edited August 16, 2010 by Fallen Angel

[Ellin]

Look, I do not think the OP should be forced by the MM to abort a child that she wants, if that is the case. But I certainly defend his right to voice his wishes. The OP didn't make this child alone, nor should she unilaterally decide this man's future.

Of course he has right to voice his wishes!! But in a sensitive way, which takes into consideration more than the end of his own nose. From all the OP's threads about this issue emerges an image of a man acting in a totally unacceptable manner in the circumstances, something that you could expect from a teenager maybe.

Any decision she makes will have long term, lasting effects on both parties. Not just on her.

Yes, lasting effect on both parties, but - like it or not - everything that concerns pregnancy, childbirth and raising children (including loss of them) on the whole affects women comsiderably more than it does men. You just cannot compare these two. From this disproportion comes the right of a woman to have more say in the decision-making and her feelings and position is crucial.

It is so easy for people to stand on the outside and tell her to "keep the baby and make him pay", or "abort the baby and make him pay" (both of which are opinions that have been voiced on her threads. But the truth of it is that they jointly made the decision to get pregnant (they both knew that pregnancy was a possible outcome of their shared orgasms.) and so they should jointly decide what to do.

I haven't noticed many such posts on this thread.

If she wants to keep the baby and he does not then she is legally free to make that choice. But I feel that she is morally obligated to at least really sit down and discuss it with him first. If she chooses to abort the child, she is also legally free to do so. But I think she should sit down and really discuss it with him.

But she did sit down with him and tried to discuss it! It was one of the first things she did. But his reaction, unfortunately, wasn't as mature and caused her an enormous amount of pain and stress.

I am struggling with everyone making him out to be a monster for voicing his desire to terminate the pregnancy. At least he hasn't just cut her off with some ridiculous NC line about wanting to focus on his marriage. He wants to be a part in the decision making, and while ultimately it is her choice, I think she owes it to him to at least hear him out; rather than assume he is just being a monster perhaps we can at least try to consider that he to is struggling with this decision. I am sure he thinks he is persuing the right course of action, no matter how faulty his logic may be.

Like I said he is perfectly entitled to voicing his opinion. But it's not opinion here that is a problem.

Honestly, people on this board with no vested interest have sunk to some pretty low levels trying to sway the OP in her decision making, don't you think that the father of the child has just as much right to try to do the same?

Like I said, I don't think most posters in this thread tried to sway the OP, but - like I said also - I don't think the father has exactly the same right because he won't be nearly as affected as the mother - it's nature, matter of fact. She's affected a lot more directly than the man.

[Fallen Angel]

Of course he has right to voice his wishes!! But in a sensitive way, which takes into consideration more than the end of his own nose. From all the OP's threads about this issue emerges an image of a man acting in a totally unacceptable manner in the circumstances, something that you could expect from a teenager maybe.

 

Of course he freaked out at first. He was told he had fathered a child he did not plan. I imagine that the OP freaked out when she realized she was pregnant herself. But she had time to process the information before sitting down to discuss it with him. He was not given that same time alone to process it.

 

Yes, lasting effect on both parties, but - like it or not - everything that concerns pregnancy, childbirth and raising children (including loss of them) on the whole affects women comsiderably more than it does men. You just cannot compare these two. From this disproportion comes the right of a woman to have more say in the decision-making and her feelings and position is crucial.

 

I beg to differ with you. i have known men who were the center of the child rearing and had wives or girlfriends who could not have cared less what the kids did or how they were raised. The parental instinct is very dependant upon the individual, and in my opinion has little to do with the sex of the parent. Certainly there are fathers who don't give a sh*it. And for every one of them there are mothers who don't give a sh*it. (Look up the statistics of grandparents raising the children. perhaps you will rethink this opinion.)

 

I haven't noticed many such posts on this thread.

 

Perhaps, but two prior threads had to be shut down for just that reason.

 

But she did sit down with him and tried to discuss it! It was one of the first things she did. But his reaction, unfortunately, wasn't as mature and caused her an enormous amount of pain and stress.

 

Do you think he suffered no pain or stress? Why are her emotions more valid than his? And as is so often touted on this board, we only have one side of the story. Unless you were a fly on the wall, we can only assume to know the truth of it.

 

Like I said he is perfectly entitled to voicing his opinion. But it's not opinion here that is a problem.

 

So what exactly do you see is the problem?

 

Like I said, I don't think most posters in this thread tried to sway the OP, but - like I said also - I don't think the father has exactly the same right because he won't be nearly as affected as the mother - it's nature, matter of fact. She's affected a lot more directly than the man.

 

I throw the bullsh*it flag on the last comment. They are both affected by the outcome. The difference is, she is the only one with the power to make the choice.

[jj33]

Im confused.

 

Are you all really fighting about whether the MM should try to influence her decision? Noone can REALLY be that naive can they?

 

In an ideal world everyone would be lovely to one another and have NO agenda. But that doesnt even happen in Disney movies.

 

 

 

OF COURSE HE WANTS TO INFLUENCE HER DECISION.

 

Life as he knows it is on the line. If she decides to have the child, he's f*cked and not in a good way.

 

 

He would be INSANE (or the very very very rare man who didnt want to leave his wife for the OW but was able to be warm and supportive of whatever decision Noelle might make) if he didnt wish to influence her decision.

 

Noelle recognizes that on some level.

 

Could he try to influence her in a nicer way? Of course he could. But he hasnt. Hes been aggressive and hasnt handled things in a mature way. That being said I cant imagine many men with his agenda would act much differently.

 

So of course she shouldnt bring him with her.

 

What may or may not be right in terms of paternal rights etc is not really the point here IMHO

 

Noelle I hope your appointment went well

[Ellin]

Im confused.

 

Are you all really fighting about whether the MM should try to influence her decision? Noone can REALLY be that naive can they?

 

In an ideal world everyone would be lovely to one another and have NO agenda. But that doesnt even happen in Disney movies.

 

 

 

OF COURSE HE WANTS TO INFLUENCE HER DECISION.

 

Life as he knows it is on the line. If she decides to have the child, he's f*cked and not in a good way.

 

 

He would be INSANE (or the very very very rare man who didnt want to leave his wife for the OW but was able to be warm and supportive of whatever decision Noelle might make) if he didnt wish to influence her decision.

 

Noelle recognizes that on some level.

 

Could he try to influence her in a nicer way? Of course he could. But he hasnt. Hes been aggressive and hasnt handled things in a mature way. That being said I cant imagine many men with his agenda would act much differently.

 

So of course she shouldnt bring him with her.

 

What may or may not be right in terms of paternal rights etc is not really the point here IMHO

 

Noelle I hope your appointment went well

Nice Jj33, I agree with your post, thank you for this reasonably put together "summary".

 

Noelle is the one that's important here, and everything that she's going through.

[lilbunny]

This is a tough situation for anyone to be in and I am sure it was a shock for this guy so his initial reaction is understandable if not what you would hope for in those circumstances. You are the only one who really knows him. It could be that he has calmed down and is trying to be supportive. If you are really worried, is there someone else close and trusted who could come along as well as him/instead?

Ultimately you have to make the final choice and deal with the fall out either way. While I'm not suggesting he has no right to voice an opinion, in a matter of fact way it is you who has the final word on it and any moral arguments about that are pretty much rendered irrelevant and for ethical debate elsewhere.

Do you want your relationship to continue? It might not either way.

Do you have the means and support to keep a child on your own? Would you be prepared to go to the CSA (Child Support Agency) or the equivalent if you needed financial support from the father? What effect might a termination have on your emotional well-being? Are you prepared to possibly end this guy's marriage?

All the best with it, I hope it works out for you.

[jj33]

Lilbunny you may have missed Noelles earlier threads (which we the pnut gallery got lockd for debating her the merits of whatever choice she makes and the related impact on her)

 

but she has said the relationship is over and finances arent an issue for her

[lilbunny]

Lilbunny you may have missed Noelles earlier threads (which we the pnut gallery got lockd for debating her the merits of whatever choice she makes and the related impact on her)

 

but she has said the relationship is over and finances arent an issue for her

 

Thanks I did miss those, apologies for that.

They were just things you might need to think about in that situation that came to mind, more rhetorical really.

[stillafool]

Noelle is the one that's important here, and everything that she's going through.

 

Why is she the only one that is important? Didn't they both participate to make the baby?

[Ellin]

really?/!?! how do you know how a man feels about the loss of a child and how it affects him? you are a female, you have no idea how a man hurts over the death of a child and I find your comments highly insensitive to men. i know several men who are divorced fathers and the loss of the daily interaction with their children has thrown them into deep depression. i also know a man who lost a child (4 years old) and the man he was before his son's death is nothing like the man he is now, 3 years later. by the same token, there are women who feel nothing over the loss of a child except relief (watch the news reports of women who have killed their children).

 

sorry for going off topic but i needed to address the comment about men not suffering the loss of a child nearly as much as a woman does.

 

Mimolicious and FallenAngel --- your posts were very good. thank you for sharing them.

Of course men are affected but not in the same degree IN GENERAL. It's very obvious by a simple fact that a woman is physically connected to her child from the beginning of the child's life, and the experience she directly goes through is not the same as just watching her go through it as fathers do. Insisting that it's not true is just denying facts.

 

Men don't feel the same thing as women during pregnancy, birth, miscarriage etc, they can't even come close to it. The hormone changes create chaos, sensations during pregnancy create strong bond, the changes in the body after birth or miscarriage are very powerful and very real for a woman but not so for a man (and note that I'm not saying men don't feel a thing).

 

After birth a woman can plunge into post-natal depression which can even border on psychosis. The effects of pregnancy remain in her body for a long time. Then she breastfeeds which prolongs the strong physical connection with her child.

 

These are very powerful feelings and processes which are felt in the deepest cells of her body and by the facts of nature only felt by mothers and this has been proven by science, measured and documented and is pretty obvious. Going further, the pain of childbirth is not comparable to any other pain, men don't have risk of dying in childbirth. I could go on and on.

 

You gave me examples from your own experience and I could give you many to support my own views, but that's pointless, just look at the statistics on how many men stay at home and look after children while women are the breadwinners etc etc. It's women who have their lives turned upside down in a much bigger degree than men and generally the whole experience is more frightening for women then for men.

 

Look at the number of men who leave their children and aren't interested in having much contact with them compared to the number of women (or kill them, since you mentioned that).

 

This does not mean men are not affected, but are affected less significantly and less directly IN GENERAL, and that does not contradict the fact that there are men who are brilliant fathers and women who are repulsive mothers.

 

I didn't mean to upset or offend men, but these are the facts.

 

You said I'm not a male so I don't know what men feel like. I can say the same thing to you.

[Ellin]

Why is she the only one that is important? Didn't they both participate to make the baby?

Noelle and everything she's going through is the most important here because she is the one who has come to this forum in search of help and support and who started this thread, in which she told us about her difficult situation, including intimate and personal details, because she was searching for help and support and trusting she would receive them.

[desertIslandCactus]

Why is she the only one that is important? Didn't they both participate to make the baby?

 

 

Both participated in common sex, and with obviously no thought that a baby could be made. The man minimized the event in saying that his children were real, hers was but a bloodstain.

 

A coverup in the form of an abortion is all that he is seeking, in order to continue his life as it has been.

[carhill]

Both participated in common sex, and with obviously no thought that a baby could be made. The man minimized the event in saying that his children were real, hers was but a bloodstain.

 

Here's that relevant information:

 

He asked me whether I had gone to the doctor and I said yes, but I didn't want to tell him I got a refferal to an abortion clinic because I feel like that would make him think that he was ''winning'' or something and only press even harder. So he became horribly mad once again. Told me not to be silly, I can't raise a child. He has living breathing kids, not this little ''blood stain''. Said he's not sure it's his ( ah, the ol' faitful one). I tried to leave then, but he stopped me and got in my way several times.

Finally I managed to leave as some woman was passing by. He callem me while I was driving, said that he has calmed down and really wants to try and talk things out. I decided that we will meet in a public place so I turned the car around and we met up in a coffee shop.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2915026&postcount=149

 

It was posts like this which helped me form my conclusion that this man is not only controlling, but practiced and proficient at it, and, hence, sealing his own irrelevance.

[Mimolicious]

Noelle and everything she's going through is the most important here because she is the one who has come to this forum in search of help and support and who started this thread, in which she told us about her difficult situation, including intimate and personal details, because she was searching for help and support and trusting she would receive them.

 

 

I believe she has. She's not a horse to put blinders on though. There is a big picture to all of this and it includes different people involved. I do agree with your previous post thought. Bringing a child into this world falls harder on us mothers.

 

If we think this complicated, imagine if his W, her parents, etc find out. YIKES!

 

Like they say, sometimes it is better to not ask for advice or opinions. Sit in quietness and listen to your internal voice in stillness. Different inputs can just cloud the mind. Has worked for me because I have learned the hard way!

[desertIslandCactus]

 

Like they say, sometimes it is better to not ask for advice or opinions. Sit in quietness and listen to your internal voice in stillness. Different inputs can just cloud the mind. Has worked for me because I have learned the hard way!

 

 

The so-called "internal voice in stillness", is not always the right voice, just the easy way.

 

I was happy to give my input in the last thread in quest for righteousness on this black and white issue.

 

Most threads on this board, could be considered black and white issues, yet no one is suggesting it be better that they do not ask for advice.

[Mimolicious]

The so-called "internal voice in stillness", is not always the right voice, just the easy way.

 

I was happy to give my input in the last thread in quest for righteousness on this black and white issue.

 

Most threads on this board, could be considered black and white issues, yet no one is suggesting it be better that they do not ask for advice.

 

I guess you will never make a sole decision based on what matters or pertains to ONLY YOU!

 

That's part of being an adult and a living reality. We make our own choices. Regardless of what others say or not, it comes down to one single person making it happen even if there is a whole rainbow of input. YOU!

 

But if you probably really read the thread, she is not asking for advice on keeping her baby or not (AND HONESTLY THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU NEED A BUNCH OF STRANGERS ON THE NET TO DELEGATE FOR YOU. LET'S BE GROWN UPS FOR A SECOND) she is asking if her MM is trying to control her with his actions.

 

Now, if a person can't sit in quietness, reflect on their situation and find the answer within themselves- there is a bigger issue than just making mistakes.

 

One thing would be asking "which one looks better? The pink or the blue? -opinion

 

Which university offer should I accept?- Advice with propert facts.

 

Do I keep a baby with a MM or if he doesn't set-up to the plate, should I abort? - That is a personal decision. I don't see what exactly we can possibly say that will light up her light bulb and make her stick to the advice. In reality all we can really do is give her scenarios based on our experiences. The choice is hers and she will find that answer within herself- so how is that the "EASY WAY"? Is LS's the right voice? Please...