I ended up paying more than him on a first date...is that a big no no?

[hoping2heal]

There's a lesson here if anyone cares to learn it. When a woman does something like that she isn't being false, she is sizing up his character and qualities (especially on a first date). Sure maybe she wished him to pay but by pulling out her purse she is, in a non-confrontational way, giving a signal that he either noitices and thanks her for the gesture and still pays or he lets her get out her wallet while he looks at his dinner rolls and tanks the whole deal. If you don't like the way that works then bring your lawyer to dinner with you! Women do that kind of stuff a lot and us blunderheaded men rarely see through the fog. Watch any romantic comedy and you'll see what I mean. Women are truly mysterious creatures and god bless 'em for that!

 

 

I see your point, but if she didn't feel comfortable paying she shouldn't of offered. She said she offered to pay because she feels men judge her if she doesn't. This won't get her the kind of man she really wants. She wants a man who will pay for the whole first date, I don't fault her for it and no one else should either but if she wants to be with that kind of man, she has to present herself that way too.

[Stockalone]

ok.. blah blah blah... should he have let her pay or should he have paid for everything... who cares! what's done is done.

What I want to know now is did he ask her out again? sorry, don't feel like weeding through 170+ posts...

 

He probably wanted to, but we can't be certain because the OP ignores his calls.

[harmfulsweetz]

There's a lesson here if anyone cares to learn it. When a woman does something like that she isn't being false, she is sizing up his character and qualities (especially on a first date). Sure maybe she wished him to pay but by pulling out her purse she is, in a non-confrontational way, giving a signal that he either noitices and thanks her for the gesture and still pays or he lets her get out her wallet while he looks at his dinner rolls and tanks the whole deal. If you don't like the way that works then bring your lawyer to dinner with you! Women do that kind of stuff a lot and us blunderheaded men rarely see through the fog. Watch any romantic comedy and you'll see what I mean. Women are truly mysterious creatures and god bless 'em for that!

 

 

To be fair, men are fairly clueless, or most are, and what's with the games? I wouldn't ever pull my purse out if I had no intention of paying. It's senseless game playing and total lack of communication and honesty that lands situations like this.

[harmfulsweetz]

I see your point, but if she didn't feel comfortable paying she shouldn't of offered. She said she offered to pay because she feels men judge her if she doesn't. This won't get her the kind of man she really wants. She wants a man who will pay for the whole first date, I don't fault her for it and no one else should either but if she wants to be with that kind of man, she has to present herself that way too.

 

Exactly.

[Sharla]

There's a lesson here if anyone cares to learn it. When a woman does something like that she isn't being false, she is sizing up his character and qualities (especially on a first date). Sure maybe she wished him to pay but by pulling out her purse she is, in a non-confrontational way, giving a signal that he either noitices and thanks her for the gesture and still pays or he lets her get out her wallet while he looks at his dinner rolls and tanks the whole deal. If you don't like the way that works then bring your lawyer to dinner with you! Women do that kind of stuff a lot and us blunderheaded men rarely see through the fog. Watch any romantic comedy and you'll see what I mean. Women are truly mysterious creatures and god bless 'em for that!

 

Sizing up someone's character is fine, it's natural and to be expected.

 

Berating someone's character over (what was the diff in cost) $10 (?), calling him cheap, to such the extent in which the OP did, is downright vicious.

[silverfish]

To be fair, men are fairly clueless, or most are, and what's with the games? I wouldn't ever pull my purse out if I had no intention of paying. It's senseless game playing and total lack of communication and honesty that lands situations like this.

 

I don't think it is game playing to offer to pay....its like when my grandad and me go out for lunch. When the bill comes I offer to pay my share and he gets to do the whole mock outrage 'what is the world coming to if an old man can't take his grand daughter out for lunch' scene...it makes him feel good about himself and it makes me smile.

 

I've worked in restaurants for nearly 15 yrs and seen this little scene between couples gets played out time and time again..most of the time when the woman pays is when its obviously a long term relationship and they have a joint bank account..not saying its right, just saying..

 

Also, men tip way better when they are with a new woman....

[tkgirl]

He probably wanted to, but we can't be certain because the OP ignores his calls.

 

 

really? oh man... then let it go already. If she didn't want to pay than she shouldn't have offered... duh. Did they meet online? When I was doing the online thing, I always offered to pay half for our first "meeting" because really, that's what it was... it wasn't really a date until after we met and then when he asked me out again I'd let him pay!

again... forgive my cluelessness... I'm feeling lazy and don't want to read all the posts.

[meerkat stew]

When a woman does something like that she isn't being false, she is sizing up his character and qualities (especially on a first date).

 

I disagree, but even if for the sake of argument this is true, what gives people the right to engage in deceptive tests like this, especially on a first date? Isn't this obnoxious on it's face? What is wrong with getting to know someone by... getting to know them, as opposed to offering up obnoxious hurdles and games? The process is not a job interview, but two people on supposedly equal footing having a fun night out and -meeting- a new person.

 

Women want to keep the past social standards that advantage them, get rid of those that disadvantage them, and shriek like a pack of hyenas when any single favorable double standard is ever threatened (QED many of the posters in this thread with all the "cheap" talk)... it really is that simple. No further analysis or rationalization needed in the case of these "who pays" debates. Is this what you think "equality" is? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Some men tolerate it, but fewer and fewer do, more men are waking up every day, and the next time someone posts a "where are all the good men" thread, know that "all the good men" are learning how to get what they want without participating in a traditional social game that is so blatantly rigged against them. Enjoy the consequences of your attitudes ladies. You can sit and argue the "who pays" point with your tabby and your siamese and your dachsund, or if you are lucky, some chump who likes being your chump, there are still lots of mamas boys out there, fortunately for all the "cheap" callers. They suck in bed and will bore the life out of you, but hey, it's a man with sperm and a wallet, right?

 

EDIT: Only first para directed at rainman, rest is just general rant

Edited January 20, 2010 by meerkat stew

[Rainman760]

I see your point, but if she didn't feel comfortable paying she shouldn't of offered. She said she offered to pay because she feels men judge her if she doesn't. This won't get her the kind of man she really wants. She wants a man who will pay for the whole first date, I don't fault her for it and no one else should either but if she wants to be with that kind of man, she has to present herself that way too.

 

To me it doesn't matter what conehead wanted with regards to the check. Sure maybe she wants a man who is chivalrous, generous and not a cheapskate! But IMO it's been well known throughout the ages that women don't come right out and say stuff like that, it's up to us to decipher and pass (or fail) the encounter, test; whatever. If you made it easy, what would we need web sites like this for? Don't get me wrong, directness can be a virtue, but in courtship especially, normalcy sometimes doesn't apply, which is where a lot of the angst and confusion stems from.

 

The purse wrangling was just a gesture of social good will to show her "willingness" to pay for part of the dinner and not appear presumptuous even though she did indeed wish he would pay, due to the dating and mating reasons we've killed in this thread. So you're looking at the purse gesture with the knowledge of her thoughts because she told us what they were. But humans do that kind of stuff all the time in social situations. Your behavior doesn't always mesh with your desires in other words; it's a method we use to fit in into society and social situations as we are conditioned and genetically predisposed to do. I'm sure you can think of a million examples of this...

 

In short, she presented with her expectations that a lot of women have, he failed. Next date. If he could have read the signs or was more knowlegable conehead might be making dinner for him right now! Hence, the lesson.

[Rainman760]

I disagree, but even if for the sake of argument this is true, what gives people the right to engage in deceptive tests like this, especially on a first date? Isn't this obnoxious on it's face? What is wrong with getting to know someone by... getting to know them, as opposed to offering up obnoxious hurdles and games? The process is not a job interview, but two people on supposedly equal footing having a fun night out and -meeting- a new person.

 

EDIT: Only first para directed at rainman, rest is just general rant

 

Interesting point meerkat. Perhaps you're right and more men are less willing to play within the social norms that have been established. My points are caged under the social dating system as it exists in my understanding. Do we require evolutionary changes in dating and social memes to find the right girl..? Plus, to be honest, it doesn't really bother me as it exists. I may not always know the rules but at least I know where the game is being played!

[Woggle]

I work for my money so why should I give it to a woman or pay for her. What is she a child? This is just another case of selective equality only when it benefits the woman.

[D-Lish]

I disagree, but even if for the sake of argument this is true, what gives people the right to engage in deceptive tests like this, especially on a first date? Isn't this obnoxious on it's face? What is wrong with getting to know someone by... getting to know them, as opposed to offering up obnoxious hurdles and games? The process is not a job interview, but two people on supposedly equal footing having a fun night out and -meeting- a new person.

 

Women want to keep the past social standards that advantage them, get rid of those that disadvantage them, and shriek like a pack of hyenas when any single favorable double standard is ever threatened (QED many of the posters in this thread with all the "cheap" talk)... it really is that simple. No further analysis or rationalization needed in the case of these "who pays" debates. Is this what you think "equality" is? If so, you are sadly mistaken.

 

Some men tolerate it, but fewer and fewer do, more men are waking up every day, and the next time someone posts a "where are all the good men" thread, know that "all the good men" are learning how to get what they want without participating in a traditional social game that is so blatantly rigged against them. Enjoy the consequences of your attitudes ladies. You can sit and argue the "who pays" point with your tabby and your siamese and your dachsund, or if you are lucky, some chump who likes being your chump, there are still lots of mamas boys out there, fortunately for all the "cheap" callers. They suck in bed and will bore the life out of you, but hey, it's a man with sperm and a wallet, right?

 

EDIT: Only first para directed at rainman, rest is just general rant

 

I agree with you.

In this day and age, when women in western society are just as gainfully employed as men, expectations with regard to men footing the bill doesn't fly like it used to.

 

If I like a guy, I want to enter a relationship with him on equal footing- so I want to let him know I can pay my own way. If I go out with a dude and I am not interested in seeing him again, I don't want to give him the impression that I was an ass-hole looking for a free night out.

 

I still like some of the antiquated traditions like opening the door for me, and I don't EVER chase men- but when it comes to money and paying for a date- I like a more reciprocal approach.

 

I have a girlfriend that thinks it's awesome to go out on the town, flirt like a pro, and pay for nothing. It's a game to her. She'll ask me to go out and I'll say I am trying to save money- and her response is always the same "you know guys will buy us drinks"... Well I do know guys would buy me drinks- but my conscience doesn't allow it. I refuse strangers buying me drinks 90% of the time. The only time I will let a guy buy me a drink is if I am interested in him...Then I will reciprocate and buy him one.

 

Anyway, I am ranting too- sorry for highjacking your post OP!

[GAchasen]

So we had a first date Saturday night. For dinner, the bill came out to be $35, which he offered to pay which was nice. Then we went to get desert and drinks. The bill came out to be $45. I slowly went for my purse to see if he'd offer to pay. He slowly went for his wallet too lol. And I mean I was really slow, but he didn't seem keen on paying, so I opened up my purse and put my card in the bill while he watched me fiddle with the broken flap. I put the bill on the table THEN he takes out his card and was like 'want to split it'? At that point, it was just awkward since I already put in my card so I just said 'no it's fine I'll get it'. He thanked me. Eventhough he offered to split, he wasn't sincere about it. He texted me the day after and called me this morning. But to be honest, I was pretty turned off that I ended up paying more than him on our first date. Is this a yay or nay??

 

Wow...I would think he would pay for everything on a first date.

I wouldn't mind splitting later on but on a first date, the man should pay in my opinion. He should have said "I got this"...not "Want to split"...hmmm...your call though.

[GAchasen]

I also have a full time career...but maybe I'm a little old fashioned, considering everyone on here thinks the guy shouldn't pay on a first date???

[Woggle]

I also have a full time career...but maybe I'm a little old fashioned, considering everyone on here thinks the guy shouldn't pay on a first date???

 

If women want equality it has to be all the way. Chivalry is dead and women killed it so don't get mad at men.

[sally4sara]

I also have a full time career...but maybe I'm a little old fashioned, considering everyone on here thinks the guy shouldn't pay on a first date???

 

I don't think the guy should pay her meal. It is old fashioned.

[sally4sara]

I work for my money so why should I give it to a woman or pay for her. What is she a child? This is just another case of selective equality only when it benefits the woman.

 

The implication that a woman should be provided for is a way of keeping women as children. This is about the only thing you and I agree on Wogs.

 

Did you know all children use to be called girls?

[New_Life08]

I also have a full time career...but maybe I'm a little old fashioned, considering everyone on here thinks the guy shouldn't pay on a first date???

 

Yes, if a man is a gentleman he pays for the date...as for digging in the purse...The only plastic I would be pulling out is my tube of chap stick!

[meerkat stew]

Plus, to be honest, it doesn't really bother me as it exists. I may not always know the rules but at least I know where the game is being played!

 

Yes, that's the interesting point also. It doesn't bother me either, really, and I don't think this particular double standard is bothersome to many men in itself. What is bothersome is the quickness with which certain people will stick the "cheap" tag on a man who, for whatever reason, doesn't play along completely with a woman's sense of entitlement. If their attitude was "It's so nice when a man treats me, I know it's not my due, but it just makes me feel special in his eyes," instead of that of an HR manager ticking off red marks on a resume', many problems relating to this particular double standard would not arise.

[New_Life08]

The implication that a woman should be provided for is a way of keeping women as children. This is about the only thing you and I agree on Wogs.

 

Did you know all children use to be called girls?

 

Woggle...Do you have a woman? Just curious...

[sally4sara]

If women want equality it has to be all the way. Chivalry is dead and women killed it so don't get mad at men.

 

But most of these types of "chivalry" didn't benefit women. It was keeping them stunted. I'd love to see the end of this. Imagine a society were each individual is expected to be a productive contributor to our species rather than half leeching off the other and being told it was a favor to them to be able to stay so useless.

[Woggle]

Woggle...Do you have a woman? Just curious...

 

Yes I do and she pays her own way through life.

[Woggle]

But most of these types of "chivalry" didn't benefit women. It was keeping them stunted. I'd love to see the end of this. Imagine a society were each individual is expected to be a productive contributor to our species rather than half leeching off the other and being told it was a favor to them to be able to stay so useless.

 

True but many women as evidenced by this thread still want men to do it and theory I have no issue with chivalry but if women want it they have to earn it. Women have to deserve gentlemenly behavior from women if they want it instead of just demanding it because they were born female.

[meerkat stew]

I agree with you.

In this day and age, when women in western society are just as gainfully employed as men, expectations with regard to men footing the bill doesn't fly like it used to.

 

If I like a guy, I want to enter a relationship with him on equal footing- so I want to let him know I can pay my own way. If I go out with a dude and I am not interested in seeing him again, I don't want to give him the impression that I was an ass-hole looking for a free night out.

 

And this is the attitude we need to move towards. Isn't being treated something men and women should do for each other, and not out of obligation or an outmoded social norm? Isn't that more real? The old social implication that a man should demonstrate his ability to provide for a housewife and prospective children is offensive on its face from any reasonable feminist perspective, so we are left with the fact that issue has become merely about money. Nothing else, just one person giving money and another accepting it. There's a word for that.

[Woggle]

Yes, that's the interesting point also. It doesn't bother me either, really, and I don't think this particular double standard is bothersome to many men in itself. What is bothersome is the quickness with which certain people will stick the "cheap" tag on a man who, for whatever reason, doesn't play along completely with a woman's sense of entitlement. If their attitude was "It's so nice when a man treats me, I know it's not my due, but it just makes me feel special in his eyes," instead of that of an HR manager ticking off red marks on a resume', many problems relating to this particular double standard would not arise.

 

Exactly. If they would appreciate chivalry is the nice gesture that it is I would not mind doing it but women demand it as a birthright and when they get it still insist on crapping on us.