I ended up paying more than him on a first date...is that a big no no?

[Rainman760]

Respect the bit*h lol

 

Well Lishy, with all my ramblings explaining my opinions on this subject you have managed to crystallize it with three words! Nicely done!

[conehead]

I was just wondering if you read his intentions or behaviors correctly. I go by the 70:30 rule myself and don't bother offering until after 3 dates, unless I'm no longer interested.

 

The only difference is that when he half-heartedly offered to pay half, I would've let him. Or when I saw him slowly reaching for his wallet, would've stopped reaching for my purse.

 

He didn't half heartedly offer to pay, he unheartedly offered to SPLIT! Which was really cheap. Like I said, you weren't there, but it was awkward. It would have came out that I was cheap if I didn't just get it! And I won't stoop to his level of cheapness lol.

 

By the way, when I started grabbing my purse and put it on my lap, I actually stopped and left it there for awhile. And once I put it on my lap, he stopped grabbing his wallet! He only made a move for his wallet again once I started opening up my purse. I mean he didnt take out his card until after my card was in the flap! Trust me, it was a slow awkward process. No doubt he was cheap!

[DustySaltus]

$10 and a game of wallet chicken, is that what it really came down to?

 

Conehead, you say that there was no chemistry between the two of you but would've considered a second date if he had paid for everything? Don't you think he would've developed expectations after that second date?

[ella23]

Ahhh well you see my opinion is based upon myself. For one I would not go out on a date just for the sake of it, I have to like the guy to go in the first place. I am not a multi dater and do not expect a guy to look after me in any way. I am totally self sufficiant and make my own choices

 

To me a first date is make or break, if that guy does things I do not like in that date I am offski! Now the OP went on a date and the GUY suggested that,after paying for dinner, they went for dessert ... HE suggested it and HE let her pay for it! That is low class and I would do just as she did and not answer his calls. No debate, no question.

 

Not because I am some womens libber who wants equality on one level and wants pandering on another ... to me it is basic manners and I like a guy who is not cheap, I act like a lady and expect to be treated like one. I dont do first date sex and I am not after a casual dating situation and after that date I would pay the whole amount of the dates no problem..

 

so to all you guys who suggest splitting or allow the woman to pay on the first date YOU ARE CHEAP!! No excuse, no debate and cheapness is foul!

 

Mind you I am sure there are many girls who dont mind, I just do!

 

OP, you did the right thing!

 

Note to the boys .... You never get a second chance to make a first impression!!!

lol, okay.

yes, some of us don't mind splitting on the first date, I certainly don't.

But judging by this thread, maybe I should just let the guy pay instead of offering to pay up lol.

[BWLoca]

He didn't half heartedly offer to pay, he unheartedly offered to SPLIT! Which was really cheap. Like I said, you weren't there, but it was awkward. It would have came out that I was cheap if I didn't just get it! And I won't stoop to his level of cheapness lol.

 

By the way, when I started grabbing my purse and put it on my lap, I actually stopped and left it there for awhile. And once I put it on my lap, he stopped grabbing his wallet! He only made a move for his wallet again once I started opening up my purse. I mean he didnt take out his card until after my card was in the flap! Trust me, it was a slow awkward process. No doubt he was cheap!

 

 

Picturing this scene in my mind, the whole thing sounds so ridiculous

 

I just have kind of a stubborn streak, so I probably would've just played that game until he got frustrated.

 

I think his original intention was to pay half and nothing more. His awkward, passive-agressive way of showing that.

[conehead]

$10 and a game of wallet chicken, is that what it really came down to?

 

Conehead, you say that there was no chemistry between the two of you but would've considered a second date if he had paid for everything? Don't you think he would've developed expectations after that second date?

 

I never said there was no chemistry at all. I said there weren't really much spark BUT I enjoyed his company and would go out with him again to see if things would grow. It sometimes takes me a few dates before the sparks kick in. I'm not sure what you mean by expectations. But I was on the fence about him, and his cheap behavior kicked him over to the realm of 'no second date!'

[txsilkysmoothe]

It may come down to how often people date. I think we have two catagories within the responses to this thread.

 

1. Men and women who date new people frequently can see and be empathetic to the burden if the man always pays.

 

2. Men and women who do not date new people frequently haven't considered how costly dating can become.

 

Age may be a factor as well. I've dated men from mid-twenties to late-forties. I know a lot are divorced, paying two mortgages, child support, or college loans, etc. I'm empathetic to their circumstance. I'm of an age and have the career success that I can afford to feed myself and others whether it be a man, friends, or co-workers.

 

For me, first dates (meetings) are usually drinks and don't get too expensive. On second or third dates, I offer to pay and usually by the third date, the man will allow me to do so. I pay because I enjoy treating someone I like, it shows him I'm interested, it conveys my good character; I can afford it.

 

Some women cannot afford to pay and that is a whole different issue.

 

There are women out there who date for meals and alcohol, seriously. I know of women who never express a thank you for the meal. Men have a reason to feel jaded after encountering a few of these women.

 

And again, what is the objective of dating? The date itself is not the "end-all" or is it? My objective is to find someone worthy of inviting into my home for a meal.

[DustySaltus]

I never said there was no chemistry at all. I said there weren't really much spark BUT I enjoyed his company and would go out with him again to see if things would grow. It sometimes takes me a few dates before the sparks kick in. I'm not sure what you mean by expectations. But I was on the fence about him, and his cheap behavior kicked him over to the realm of 'no second date!'

 

By expectations, I mean that you genuinely have an interest in him. I understand that you were on the fence with him and this pushed him over it. However, if he would've just taken out his card right away and said, "Hey, let's split this" would that have put him in the "no second date" category as well?

 

I equate sparks with chemistry.

[mem11363]

JS,

For someone who routinely hammers men for looking at other women - a biologically programmed behavior - you sure did go straight to biology on this one. You can't have it both ways. Either men and women BOTH have some hardwired behaviors that are not attractive but that we accept in each other or we BOTH expect the other to over ride our hard wired behaviors.

 

You post a lot about bad male hard wired behavior but seem unwilling to acknowledge bad female hard wired behavior. Be consistent and people will be slower to perceive you as a male basher.

 

By the way - I AM consistent. I accept the hard wired behaviors. They are present and strong. I don't have to like them but I tend to not whine about them.

 

 

I don't understand what the fact that women work and make their own money has to do with it to be honest. Or submissiveness and independence has to do with this issue. The OP seems quite independent.

 

This type of situation has nothing to do with our abillty to pay or wanting to be dependent on a man. And because of that, it's not an issue of money but of chiverly.

 

Biologically, women are programmed to be on the look out for a mate that will happily share his resources. They want to know that a man will not be stingy. A stingy mate that hords his resources is not a good long term partner for protection and security. Men do not have the same biological drive in this regards. So it's easy to see why it's such a turn off for many women. Now Lizzie, I've seen you many times defend men in the name of biology. So why turn your back on biology now.

 

It matters how someone treats us. Especially on first dates where people are suppose to be on the best behavior. If I paid for dinner, of my own accord with a man, and then he didn't even make a sincere offer to pay for desert, it doesn't take a scientist to see why that's unattractive behavior.

 

Now the men here can throw mini-hissy fits and say that women are evil people and all they care about is money but the truth is, it's clear that men care just as much about money to be offended in the first place. So it's okay for men to care about money but it's not okay for women to? It's okay for men to pick women based on their looks but it's not okay to judge men on other shallow factors like their money and how they deal with it or share it or don't share it?

 

OP, I wouldn't be too excited to go out with this guy again either. Find a guy that has better class then this.

[conehead]

By expectations, I mean that you genuinely have an interest in him. I understand that you were on the fence with him and this pushed him over it. However, if he would've just taken out his card right away and said, "Hey, let's split this" would that have put him in the "no second date" category as well?

 

I equate sparks with chemistry.

 

Even if he offerred to split and not pay it all, that would have been a huge turn off. It was a first date, there should not be splitting lol. If he doesn't want to pay more than $35 then he should not have suggested desert/drinks. He could have easily invited me to just a walk afterward or a $2 ice cream or something and I would have came out happy. But no, he wanted to go to a fancy place for desert/drinks in which he did not want to pay.

[Orchid8]

It may come down to how often people date. I think we have two catagories within the responses to this thread.

 

1. Men and women who date new people frequently can see and be empathetic to the burden if the man always pays.

 

2. Men and women who do not date new people frequently haven't considered how costly dating can become.

 

Age may be a factor as well. I've dated men from mid-twenties to late-forties. I know a lot are divorced, paying two mortgages, child support, or college loans, etc. I'm empathetic to their circumstance. I'm of an age and have the career success that I can afford to feed myself and others whether it be a man, friends, or co-workers.

 

For me, first dates (meetings) are usually drinks and don't get too expensive. On second or third dates, I offer to pay and usually by the third date, the man will allow me to do so. I pay because I enjoy treating someone I like, it shows him I'm interested, it conveys my good character; I can afford it.

 

Some women cannot afford to pay and that is a whole different issue.

 

There are women out there who date for meals and alcohol, seriously. I know of women who never express a thank you for the meal. Men have a reason to feel jaded after encountering a few of these women.

 

And again, what is the objective of dating? The date itself is not the "end-all" or is it? My objective is to find someone worthy of inviting into my home for a meal.

 

 

Good post!

 

I have a friend who is a serial dater and often goes on dates just to kill time and get a free meal and drinks. She would make him take her to the nicest restaurants too and then ignore him after the date was over. I despise this type of behavior from women and she and I would argue over our morals and values all the time because she simply doesn't have any and wholeheartedly admits to it. If it weren't for me knowing her for so long, I would have ended our friendship a long time ago.

 

Anyway, I understand why men can become jaded. It's women like her that ruins it for ladies who are genuinely looking for a sincere relationship.

[2sure]

With all of the things he may read and hear, its possible he just wasnt sure exactly what his stance should be so as not to offend you - so he split the difference. Barring other reasons - I'd give date 2 a shot if he invites you someplace 2nd date worthy.

[Lizzie60]

Poor guys... if they pay half the bill.. they are cheap... if they pay the whole bill.. they are 'paying' for sex...

 

You're damn if you do.. and you're damn if you don,t..

[harmfulsweetz]

The thing is, it's entirely up to the individual. What's wrong with a woman paying her share? If you want to be considered equal, act it, stop talking, and start acting. I'm a traditional girl, I like to be treated but by that, I mean he would pay for one thing, and I'd pay for the other. I still see that as a treat

 

If the guy refuses to take my money, I won't push the matter as I wouldn't want to annoy him. If he accepts my half, yay me, I found a non-stubborn one! It just really depends. If he suggests going some expensive place, I expect him to pay more for that, as he suggested it.

 

Men aren't moneybags, and why should they fork out for every single thing?

 

However, I do find first date etiquette has it so that it's safer if the man just pays because he won't be labelled cheap

[conehead]

While I feel for guys like Orchid's friend, the dude here is an exception to that. The reason is because HE was the one who picked both the places for dinner and desert and HE suggested both. If he was afraid I was like Orchid's friend, he could have easily just ended it with dinner at $35. No need to suggest desert. Like I said, he could have just suggested we take a walk.

[DustySaltus]

Even if he offerred to split and not pay it all, that would have been a huge turn off. It was a first date, there should not be splitting lol. If he doesn't want to pay more than $35 then he should not have suggested desert/drinks. He could have easily invited me to just a walk afterward or a $2 ice cream or something and I would have came out happy. But no, he wanted to go to a fancy place for desert/drinks in which he did not want to pay.

 

Oh ok. See if HE suggested, HE should pay. I always pick up the tab on the first date, I was just trying to understand your thought process.

[Orchid8]

While I feel for guys like Orchid's friend, the dude here is an exception to that. The reason is because HE was the one who picked both the places for dinner and desert and HE suggested both. If he was afraid I was like Orchid's friend, he could have easily just ended it with dinner at $35. No need to suggest desert. Like I said, he could have just suggested we take a walk.

 

You did the right thing. We can all give our two cents about this based on what we feel but what it boils down to is.. what you want and how you feel. If you are turned off by his behavior and don't want to go on a second date, it's your decision and you're doing him a favor. There are plenty of fish in the sea and you will catch one that you feel is worth your time. In the meantime, don't settle (PERIOD)

[hoping2heal]

So we had a first date Saturday night. For dinner, the bill came out to be $35, which he offered to pay which was nice. Then we went to get desert and drinks. The bill came out to be $45. I slowly went for my purse to see if he'd offer to pay. He slowly went for his wallet too lol. And I mean I was really slow, but he didn't seem keen on paying, so I opened up my purse and put my card in the bill while he watched me fiddle with the broken flap. I put the bill on the table THEN he takes out his card and was like 'want to split it'? At that point, it was just awkward since I already put in my card so I just said 'no it's fine I'll get it'. He thanked me. Eventhough he offered to split, he wasn't sincere about it. He texted me the day after and called me this morning. But to be honest, I was pretty turned off that I ended up paying more than him on our first date. Is this a yay or nay??

 

You shouldn't of paid for any of it. It was the first date. He should of said "no, I got this" the minute you even suggested. Did you ask him out on this first date or did he ask you? If it was you who asked him out; then okay I can see him not wanting to fork out for the whole thing after all it would be YOU offering to take HIM out. If he asked you out though and actually let that happen? I would be like this is a no go. I don't think that means a man should have to pay for EVERYTHING at all times; but on the first date? Oh yeah.

[Stockalone]

Ahhh well you see my opinion is based upon myself. For one I would not go out on a date just for the sake of it, I have to like the guy to go in the first place. I am not a multi dater and do not expect a guy to look after me in any way. I am totally self sufficiant and make my own choices

 

No worries then. I always paid for a first date unless the women insisted on splitting the bill.

 

I usually took that as a sign that they weren't interested in a second date and that was almost always the case. Still, it could be a cultural thing too, most German women don't mind paying for something during a date. Most even volunteer to pay for smaller stuff, like popcorn at the movies,etc. They appreciate the gesture to be taken out and me paying, but they also want to show that they don't expect to be taken care of. At least that was my impression.

 

Not wanting the man to pay can have other reasons too. For example, I met up with a female friend that I had met online and she didn't want me to pay for everything. I think she didn't want to give me the wrong impression, she was very clear that this wasn't a date and I think she didn't want me to feel used. I said that I don't mind paying (especially because she also had to buy a ticket for a 90min train ride to meet me), so I paid for most of the things.

 

I really wouldn't have minded spending those extra 15 or 20€, but I got the feeling that she felt more comfortable paying for the little things like an admission ticket to the museum, etc., herself. And she chipped in for dinner too (paying for dessert while I paid for the meals and beverages). I could understand that and also appreciate it.

 

 

To me a first date is make or break, if that guy does things I do not like in that date I am offski! Now the OP went on a date and the GUY suggested that,after paying for dinner, they went for dessert ... HE suggested it and HE let her pay for it! That is low class and I would do just as she did and not answer his calls. No debate, no question.

 

I don't have a problem with that. The only thing the OP did wrong in my opinion was offering to pay when she didn't mean it.

 

 

Not because I am some womens libber who wants equality on one level and wants pandering on another ... to me it is basic manners and I like a guy who is not cheap, I act like a lady and expect to be treated like one. I dont do first date sex and I am not after a casual dating situation and after that date I would pay the whole amount of the dates no problem..

 

As I said, I don't have a problem with that either. It's just that some women can make a guy think twice about paying for dates.

 

The few multi-daters I encountered made me feel slightly used as a meal ticket. I didn't mind paying for the first date though, but I can understand why some guys prefer going dutch or why they would want to avoid a dinner-date as a first date.

 

 

so to all you guys who suggest splitting or allow the woman to pay on the first date YOU ARE CHEAP!! No excuse, no debate and cheapness is foul!

 

Mind you I am sure there are many girls who dont mind, I just do!

 

OP, you did the right thing!

 

Sure, the whole thing was silly and a bit awkward and I take the OP's word for it that he wanted her to pay.

 

When he saw that she went for her purse, he could have said "I got it". In my opinion, 45 bucks is a small price to pay when you feel a connection with someone.

 

Still, why did she even go for her purse when when there was no need to?

 

Who knows though, maybe if the guy had paid, he would be ranting on an online forum about how women always expect the man to pay, etc.

Maybe they just have different ideas about who pays what in a dating situation.

[conehead]

You shouldn't of paid for any of it. It was the first date. He should of said "no, I got this" the minute you even suggested. Did you ask him out on this first date or did he ask you? If it was you who asked him out; then okay I can see him not wanting to fork out for the whole thing after all it would be YOU offering to take HIM out. If he asked you out though and actually let that happen? I would be like this is a no go. I don't think that means a man should have to pay for EVERYTHING at all times; but on the first date? Oh yeah.

 

Yup he asked me out and he suggested both places.

[conehead]

Stockalone - The reason girls reach for purses is because most guys I talk to expect the girl to at least do the 'tussel' lol. That is, they expect a girl to at least offer to pay even if the guy knows in his head he will get it. They like it when a girl at least does the gesture of offerring as part of dating etiquette so that the guy can go 'no i'll get it.' It's also from the show 'HOw I met your mother.' Somehow alot of guys get turned off by girls who don't even offer.

 

It might not make sense to you but thats the way it goes!

[hoping2heal]

Yup he asked me out and he suggested both places.

 

Okay, I wouldn't see him again. That doesn't mean YOU shouldn't the two of us are different, I just know that if A man offers to take me out and then suggests we go to two places and I pay for it? I can tell already that he isn't my type. Again, it's not that I think men should always pay for everything but it's the first date and you offered to take me out; why am I forking out close to 50 bucks for saying yes? I don't know I couldn't see him again.

[TheLoneSock]

Only a silly boy would make a statement like that without checking his facts on the person he is saying it to!

 

And the sarcastic wink makes your stupidness even funnier

 

Oh and ps ... with your attitude I would not count your chickens if I was you lol

 

Oh I get it, these are cutting remarks. The name calling, the insults, the rolling of the eyes. Very mature. Trying to undermine or discredit my views with comments like "silly boy" and calling me stupid. Obviously you can dish it out, but you can't take it.

 

Notice, all I did was ask you your age, and you went off on a tangent insulting my dating 'etiquette' and then arrogantly excusing it as if I needed your pardon, at the same time alluding to my youth suggesting I am immature, even though your whole response was anything but mature. There was no need for any of that.

 

I'm guessing that since you took offense at such an innocent question, it must be a very sensitive subject for you. And now I can see why. You're 38, and without a family of your own. A failure in the dating world by most people's standards. I've seen your other posts; clearly you are a traditional girl with your standards of the guy doing all pursuing, all contacting, all paying. But by traditional standards, you should have a family by now, yet that hasn't happened. I wonder why?

 

It is absolutely clear to me why you're in the position you are in. Is it any wonder men don't call you back, why no one has found your value high enough to marry you, and why you're without a whole family? You hide under the facade of being 'happily single'. You're jaded, you're overly sensitive, you're uptight, and you opportunistically cling to traditional values only when they suit your needs - dropping them when they don't. Get over yourself.

 

Stew on that, oh wise master yoda of the dating world.

Edited January 19, 2010 by TheLoneSock
typo

[BWLoca]

Stockalone - The reason girls reach for purses is because most guys I talk to expect the girl to at least do the 'tussel' lol. That is, they expect a girl to at least offer to pay even if the guy knows in his head he will get it. They like it when a girl at least does the gesture of offerring as part of dating etiquette so that the guy can go 'no i'll get it.' It's also from the show 'HOw I met your mother.' Somehow alot of guys get turned off by girls who don't even offer.

 

It might not make sense to you but thats the way it goes!

 

 

I just think in playing that game, you should be prepared for the guy to say "okay, thanks for the offer." The kind of guy you want wouldn't even let you offer and I agree on that point.

[hoping2heal]

Stockalone - The reason girls reach for purses is because most guys I talk to expect the girl to at least do the 'tussel' lol. That is, they expect a girl to at least offer to pay even if the guy knows in his head he will get it. They like it when a girl at least does the gesture of offerring as part of dating etiquette so that the guy can go 'no i'll get it.' It's also from the show 'HOw I met your mother.' Somehow alot of guys get turned off by girls who don't even offer.

 

It might not make sense to you but thats the way it goes!

 

Um, only cheapskates Conehead. If a man asks you out; he should pay. He shouldn't be offended or pissy because you don't or you don't falsely offer too. If he does? Poo- poo. This is kind of universal. You ask to take a prospective client out to dinner; do you hope they pay for their own meal? No. You call up a friend and offer to take them out for lunch, do you expect them to pay for their own meal there? No. Or at least, I don't.

 

I think doing this false reach for your credit card when you aren't sincere about it will not land you the kind of guy you really want. Women get labeled as gold diggers and all kinds of negative connotations because they find it attractive when a man can take care of our needs financially. That doesn't mean we are gold diggers. Even women who insist on having their own careers, money etc..more times than not they want to use that money for luxury purposes i.e beauty products, vacations, fun money. They don't start out really wanting to use that to pay half on the mortgage but sometimes they have too.

 

If a man looks down on you because he can't meet your needs? Good riddance.