I ended up paying more than him on a first date...is that a big no no?

[Stockalone]

Stockalone - The reason girls reach for purses is because most guys I talk to expect the girl to at least do the 'tussel' lol. That is, they expect a girl to at least offer to pay even if the guy knows in his head he will get it. They like it when a girl at least does the gesture of offerring as part of dating etiquette so that the guy can go 'no i'll get it.' It's also from the show 'HOw I met your mother.' Somehow alot of guys get turned off by girls who don't even offer.

 

It might not make sense to you but thats the way it goes!

 

I get the whole gesture thing and I do appreciate it. My problem with it is that you don't mean it.

 

That makes it an empty, worthless gesture. I thought (maybe naively) that women who offer to pay wouldn't actually mind paying if I accepted their offer. There is a difference between appreciating that I pay and expecting that I pay.

 

If it is nothing more than an empty gesture, I really like the women more who shell out the 5 bucks for popcorn at the movies and don't even offer to pay for dinner but will say "Thanks for dinner" with a smile on their face.

[conehead]

I just think in playing that game, you should be prepared for the guy to say "okay, thanks for the offer." The kind of guy you want wouldn't even let you offer and I agree on that point.

 

Only a cheap guy will let me pay, and in that case, he is not worth a second date IMO. I suppose then its another good way to weed out the duds . Gentlmen usually say 'i'll get it' right when I go for the purse before I can even say anything.

 

This ofcourse excludes incidences when I have zero interest in a guy and I INSIST on splitting. One time I felt so bad since the guy drove an hr to see me and I did not like him that I even insisted on paying the full bill.

[New_Life08]

Yeah, big turn-off! He should have paid the bill. If he can't afford to take a woman out, he shouldn't be going on dates.

 

You should not even have reached for your purse. Unless this was a friendship thing...and even then a cool guy has no problem paying the bill at least for dinner.

 

My bf always pays unless I tell him up front I want to treat him.

 

This guy sounds like he's either inexperienced, took some bad advice, or he's just a cheap skate. LOL. I don't think I would be so anxious to go out with him again either.

[BWLoca]

Only a cheap guy will let me pay, and in that case, he is not worth a second date IMO. I suppose then its another good way to weed out the duds . Gentlmen usually say 'i'll get it' right when I go for the purse before I can even say anything.

 

This ofcourse excludes incidences when I have zero interest in a guy and I INSIST on splitting. One time I felt so bad since the guy drove an hr to see me and I did not like him that I even insisted on paying the full bill.

 

 

Or he was impressed with what he thought was a sincere gesture. Or didn't want to be a jerk and argue.

[conehead]

Ok so the 'tussel' is dating etiquette. Check out what I found online:

 

She Doesn't Expect a Free Meal

 

There seems to be a lot of argument among singles today in regards to who should pay for the check. The answer is this: A nice girl should offer to pay for her meal or coffee, and if it's a first date a guy should refuse her offer and pick up the tab. Quality women don't expect to be waited on or to get everything in life for free. That attitude also applies to their dating life. So when a guy does make the move to treat his gal, it makes that much more of than impression.

 

 

That being said, there are so many conflicting viewpoints on things. This is just my side of it. Different people view things differently.

[Clep]

Um, only cheapskates Conehead. If a man asks you out; he should pay. He shouldn't be offended or pissy because you don't or you don't falsely offer too. If he does? Poo- poo. This is kind of universal. You ask to take a prospective client out to dinner; do you hope they pay for their own meal? No. You call up a friend and offer to take them out for lunch, do you expect them to pay for their own meal there? No. Or at least, I don't.

 

I think doing this false reach for your credit card when you aren't sincere about it will not land you the kind of guy you really want. Women get labeled as gold diggers and all kinds of negative connotations because they find it attractive when a man can take care of our needs financially. That doesn't mean we are gold diggers. Even women who insist on having their own careers, money etc..more times than not they want to use that money for luxury purposes i.e beauty products, vacations, fun money. They don't start out really wanting to use that to pay half on the mortgage but sometimes they have too.

 

If a man looks down on you because he can't meet your needs? Good riddance.

 

I am offended if someone is false with me for any reason. It shows me how life is going to look in the future. A client is in the business world not the personal world. I pay for clients as a gesture to get their business and it is also a tax write off so it isn't really much out of my pocket.

 

When I phone up a friend to go out for lunch I figure out who is paying up front. It depends on how much I ask her. If I let her know I would like to see her for lunch often and showing her value with that gesture, doesn't mean I am supposed to pay her way as well.

 

Women are labeled as gold diggers that have your mentality. I don't care if a man can take care of my needs financially, as I can do that on my own. And what you say about women wanting to use their money for luxuries and fun money, not the mortgage is im sure the same thing every guy would want, if he wasn't expected to pay a women's way. If he uses his money as fun money he is cheap and if a woman does she is entitled?

[conehead]

Or he was impressed with what he thought was a sincere gesture. Or didn't want to be a jerk and argue.

 

Neither of us are him, so we don't really know what he's thinking. I will say that since I was actually there and saw his mousy behavior, that he was just plain cheap, pure and simple. But to be fair, I'm not him either so I don't know what he's thinking. Maybe you are right. Either way, he is not the guy for me. I need a guy who is either less passive in treating or is less cheap.

[Sharla]

Neither of us are him, so we don't really know what he's thinking. I will say that since I was actually there and saw his mousy behavior, that he was just plain cheap, pure and simple. But to be fair, I'm not him either so I don't know what he's thinking. Maybe you are right. Either way, he is not the guy for me. I need a guy who is either less passive in treating or is less cheap.

 

Or maybe he picked up on the "you must pay for my meal" entitlement mentality and that is why he did not offer to pay? Just a thought.

[alphamale]

i think all this is getting blown out of proportion

[ella23]

I can understand that you prefer that the guy pays for the first date, but calling him cheap just because he prefers to split is a bit over the top really.

[Rainman760]

I appreciate that fact that there are so many opinions on this but to me, again, the solution is quite simple and avoids all of this fretting and fake reaches and gestures and who's doing what and all that.

 

GO HAVE COFFEE or something similar! And guys, just pay the d*m* bill! It's like 8 bucks! Then your free to make a call on dinner if that first encounter goes well. And remember if it eventually leads to a great relationship, do ya really think your gonna keep a chip on your shoulder cuz you paid for your first couple of dates?!

[sid3]

he's also desperate. So apparently, after only meeting him once, it's a nay as he is cheap, desperate and obviously clueless. I wonder how things would have played out has the OP not reached for her purse.

[conehead]

I appreciate that fact that there are so many opinions on this but to me, again, the solution is quite simple and avoids all of this fretting and fake reaches and gestures and who's doing what and all that.

 

GO HAVE COFFEE or something similar! And guys, just pay the d*m* bill! It's like 8 bucks! Then your free to make a call on dinner if that first encounter goes well. And remember if it eventually leads to a great relationship, do ya really think your gonna keep a chip on your shoulder cuz you paid for your first couple of dates?!

 

Beautifully said!!

[hoping2heal]

I am offended if someone is false with me for any reason. It shows me how life is going to look in the future. A client is in the business world not the personal world. I pay for clients as a gesture to get their business and it is also a tax write off so it isn't really much out of my pocket.

 

Okay so, You don't mind paying to impress a client but you have a problem paying when you ask a woman out of a first date?

 

Um, ok.

 

When I phone up a friend to go out for lunch I figure out who is paying up front. It depends on how much I ask her. If I let her know I would like to see her for lunch often and showing her value with that gesture, doesn't mean I am supposed to pay her way as well.

 

Calling up a friend and asking if they want to join you for lunch somewhere, and asking if you can take them to lunch are two different things. I'm talking about if you call up your friend and offer to take them.

 

Women are labeled as gold diggers that have your mentality.

 

LOL, what a load of crap that is. I have been with my current partner for a year. I pay all of my own bills without his financial help; nor do I have a problem with it. I pay for all my own luxury items by myself, nor do I have a problem with that. He does pay for a lot but not all of our relationship related experiences; that said I have offered to go half on a lot of things and I have ONLY said it when I MEANT it. I've never once offered to pitch in just to "look better" or more politically correct. The ways we spend time together are very genuine and low key, I don't get a new Tiffany's bracelet annually .

 

I don't care if a man can take care of my needs financially, as I can do that on my own.

 

My man doesn't take care of my financial needs either. However, when we start having children I am going to want to focus on raising the kids and spending time with them and not being too tired to be a mother or a wife and nuture my romantic relationship. Us women are excellent multi taskers but we are STILL human. We can't do EVERYTHING with a high success rate; something is going to fail. I'm not hardly a gold digger because I am self aware of that. I have never been attracted to my current partner just because he can take care of me and the family when the time for that comes. I still do enjoy having my own side projects and always will.

 

And what you say about women wanting to use their money for luxuries and fun money, not the mortgage is im sure the same thing every guy would want, if he wasn't expected to pay a women's way. If he uses his money as fun money he is cheap and if a woman does she is entitled?

 

I never said she was entitled, I simply pointed out the fact that many women who want to have the career and be "independent" don't want to be the breadwinners in the household. Again, I think it's sad that anyone would label someone a gold digger simply because they want a man who will be able to take care of them and the family financially SHOULD the need for that arise. That is not a gold digger by any means.

Edited January 19, 2010 by hoping2heal

[phineas]

Neither of us are him, so we don't really know what he's thinking. I will say that since I was actually there and saw his mousy behavior, that he was just plain cheap, pure and simple. But to be fair, I'm not him either so I don't know what he's thinking. Maybe you are right. Either way, he is not the guy for me. I need a guy who is either less passive in treating or is less cheap.

 

Or perhaps he did it on purpose so you won't call him again.

[Sharla]

Here's a big no no:

 

Guy pays for girl, at the end of the night when he drops her off, he says "so... can I come in?", girls says "no I don't think that would be a good idea", guy says "but I bought you dinner, you could at least offer me a night cap"...

[harmfulsweetz]

Okay so, You don't mind paying to impress a client but you have a problem paying when you ask a woman out of a first date?

 

Um, ok.

 

 

 

Calling up a friend and asking if they want to join you for lunch somewhere, and asking if you can take them to lunch are two different things. I'm talking about if you call up your friend and offer to take them.

 

 

 

LOL, what a load of crap that is. I have been with my current partner for a year. I pay all of my own bills without his financial help; nor do I have a problem with it. I pay for all my own luxury items by myself, nor do I have a problem with that. He does pay for a lot but not all of our relationship related experiences; that said I have offered to go half on a lot of things and I have ONLY said it when I MEANT it. I've never once offered to pitch in just to "look better" or more politically correct. The ways we spend time together are very genuine and low key, I don't get a new Tiffany's bracelet annually .

 

 

 

My man doesn't take care of my financial needs either. However, when we start having children I am going to want to focus on raising the kids and spending time with them and not being too tired to be a mother or a wife and nuture my romantic relationship. Us women are excellent multi taskers but we are STILL human. We can't do EVERYTHING with a high success rate; something is going to fail. I'm not hardly a gold digger because I am self aware of that. I have never been attracted to my current partner just because he can take care of me and the family when the time for that comes. I still do enjoy having my own side projects and always will.

 

 

 

I never said she was entitled, I simply pointed out the fact that many women who want to have the career and be "independent" don't want to be the breadwinners in the household. Again, I think it's sad that anyone would label someone a gold digger simply because they want a man who will be able to take care of them and the family financially SHOULD the need for that arise. That is not a gold digger by any means.

 

 

I agree in parts. Men should normally be the breadwinners because of the need/desire for a family, rightfully, they should earn enough to take care of a family, this isn't gold digging. It's being capable to provide for your own.

 

Then again, I think if women want to be equal to men they should earn it, and prove it instead of saying one thing and doing another thing entirely. One of the main reasons women earn less than men is because of maternity leave, men are far more reliable and dependable like that for a workforce.

 

 

I disagreed with your earlier comment about women wanting to spend their money on themselves, because how is that fair? Surely men would love that luxury too? I think when it comes down to it, I'd want to be pitching 50/50 into household expenses. Because it's unfair for one person to shoulder that burden, and what's the point in all of this advanced women's rights if we are to just stay traditional and not actually use them for anything other than the fun things?

[aerogurl87]

I personally think a guy should always pay for the first date, especially if he asks the girl out. If a guy asked me out and then looked at me with those "where's your half of the money" eyes when we got to the venue we were supposed to be going to, I'd politely excuse myself and move on. And really, if a guy is broke, he can always suggest doing something that's either free or relatively cheap. A first date doesn't have to be extraordinary and extravagant, it just needs to be fun and a good way to get to know each other initially. With that said, if I had been dating a guy for awhile and he was my boyfriend, then I'd pay for some of the dates or offer to go Dutch, but if I were expected to do so when we first started to see each other then that would turn me off.

[Enema]

I wonder how much of a contributing factor to women being single is the unrelenting desire for a man to pay for food.

 

I've never paid for all of a first date, I don't consider it fair. Even with my now-wife, we split our first date. We're happily married now and she's a prominent scientist. Maybe her intelligence helped her see through the fog of sexist tradition.

 

A lot of people miss out on something great because of their hangups.

[mem11363]

QFT,

 

This filters out a woman who is not really into you and would only go out if you buy her a pricey dinner. And it removes any sexual sense of entitlement a guy has.

 

I always paid for my first, second - oh wait the only time I ever split anything was if it was a mini-vacay that was painfully pricey and the split was all agreed up front. Not saying this is "right" just saying that was how I did it. But I think pricey first dates are a mistake.

 

 

I appreciate that fact that there are so many opinions on this but to me, again, the solution is quite simple and avoids all of this fretting and fake reaches and gestures and who's doing what and all that.

 

GO HAVE COFFEE or something similar! And guys, just pay the d*m* bill! It's like 8 bucks! Then your free to make a call on dinner if that first encounter goes well. And remember if it eventually leads to a great relationship, do ya really think your gonna keep a chip on your shoulder cuz you paid for your first couple of dates?!

[conehead]

Or perhaps he did it on purpose so you won't call him again.

 

Except he texted me AND called me after the first date...I ignored both

 

Even if he did not want a second date with him, he should have still payed since he suggested just to be nice/gentlemanly. But he is ew!

[donnamaybe]

If the guy didn't want an expensive date, he shouldn't have chosen to have dinner and THEN go for dessert at a place where you would wind up with a $45 bill. For dessert? OUCH!

[hoping2heal]

 

Then again, I think if women want to be equal to men they should earn it,

 

I think the notion of men and women being "equals" in the sense they try to be is ridiculous. That doesn't mean I am saying women are lesser people than men. Not at all. We are all pink on the inside. But that is where most of the similiarities end. Men and women are designed to have inherent strenths/weaknesses and charachteristics attributed with that sex and many times they are not the same thing. Does that mean one size fits all? No. But I think there are a lot more people trying to stretch what comes naturally to them.

 

A man is more physically equipped for hard labor than a woman. His body was designed this way. Does that mean a woman is a lesser person? No. Her strenghts are different from his, but they are every bit as useful in a relationship dynamic. There is nothing wrong with women sticking to what is natural for them and a man sticking to what is natural to him. Women will never have a dick, and men will never get to bear a child. I think feminists have to be some of the most exhausted people in the world. I know I would be!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I disagreed with your earlier comment about women wanting to spend their money on themselves, because how is that fair? Surely men would love that luxury too?

 

There will never a quote on quote fair. People try continually to make one, it just won't ever happen. That is reality. You could say;" it's unfair a man has to the breadwinner in the family and the woman has the children and gets to stay at home. That's unfair! "

 

OR you could flip the coin and say "All the man has to do is go out and work. The woman has to give up her own desires and ambitions and stay home with the children. She doesn't get to be out interacting with other adults and making her own money.That's unfair!"

 

The best one can hope for is that you are aware of what you want and need in your relationship dynamic, and then find someone who naturally feels the same. This has to be what comes natural though. A couple where a woman insists on having the career, hates housework, doesn't like to cook and doesn't want to handle the majority of child raising can work just fine if the man naturally feels more inclined to be domestic and bear the brunt of the child raising duties. They will do just fine; but if deep down the man wants to be the breadwinner; Houston there will be a problem.

 

 

 

I think when it comes down to it, I'd want to be pitching 50/50 into household expenses

 

At this point I feel that way too. We don't have any children right now though.

 

Because it is unfair for one person to be shouldering the burden

 

Again, there is no "fair" not really. You both have to mutually make sacrifices in different ways and in different areas.

 

and what's the point in all of this advanced women's rights if we are to just stay traditional and not actually use them for anything other than the fun things?

 

What is the point in all these advanced women's rights anyway when very few people seem to understand what they mean?

 

There was a time when a woman could not vote because she was thought of that her opinion was inferior.

 

We are NOT living in "traditional" times. If a woman is a stay at home mother it is viewed at as an awful insult to women everywhere. Or we have this other thing "Well, I need to have my own career so I can be an equal" Honey, you want your own career because it is something you aspire too. There is nothing wrong with THAT either, but it will never make you the same as a man just like a man staying at home will never make him the same as a woman.

 

We are still people and should all be looked at as though our opinions and feelings and needs matter; neither sex should be trying to drive that point home with how they choose to spend or earn finances, etc etc.

 

Us opposite sexes are DIFFERENT we will never be able to be "equal" to eachother in the sense people try to define because they are comparing an apple to an orange!

[OceanTropic]

I am very old school.

 

If a man doesn't pay on the first date, then he's not a gentleman. What a turn off.

[Clep]

Okay so, You don't mind paying to impress a client but you have a problem paying when you ask a woman out of a first date?

 

Um, ok.

 

 

 

Calling up a friend and asking if they want to join you for lunch somewhere, and asking if you can take them to lunch are two different things. I'm talking about if you call up your friend and offer to take them.

 

 

 

LOL, what a load of crap that is. I have been with my current partner for a year. I pay all of my own bills without his financial help; nor do I have a problem with it. I pay for all my own luxury items by myself, nor do I have a problem with that. He does pay for a lot but not all of our relationship related experiences; that said I have offered to go half on a lot of things and I have ONLY said it when I MEANT it. I've never once offered to pitch in just to "look better" or more politically correct. The ways we spend time together are very genuine and low key, I don't get a new Tiffany's bracelet annually .

 

 

 

My man doesn't take care of my financial needs either. However, when we start having children I am going to want to focus on raising the kids and spending time with them and not being too tired to be a mother or a wife and nuture my romantic relationship. Us women are excellent multi taskers but we are STILL human. We can't do EVERYTHING with a high success rate; something is going to fail. I'm not hardly a gold digger because I am self aware of that. I have never been attracted to my current partner just because he can take care of me and the family when the time for that comes. I still do enjoy having my own side projects and always will.

 

 

 

I never said she was entitled, I simply pointed out the fact that many women who want to have the career and be "independent" don't want to be the breadwinners in the household. Again, I think it's sad that anyone would label someone a gold digger simply because they want a man who will be able to take care of them and the family financially SHOULD the need for that arise. That is not a gold digger by any means.

 

I am a woman and I don't date women. I agree with much of what you have to say, except a few key parts. I realize women don't want to be the breadwinners and maybe some men don't either. Your attitude when you stated about women having their money for luxury items and paying the mortgage if they have to, is that sense of entitlement I was speaking of.

 

A gold digger has a sense of entitlement in a financial sense thinking a man should pay for anything for them because they were born a female. Gold diggers feel that they deserve to be treated well, and that includes knowing that someone is willing to spend money on them.

 

If I was on a first date which I have been on a few times I suggested before we got there or planned the place that we would go dutch. I could not imagine going on many dates to pay for each one, and have anyone think I owed them financially by paying each time because they were born a female and I was born a male.

 

If I chose to pay that is one thing, but to say someone is cheap because they don't fulfill another's expectation that they pay is ridiculous. That is a sense of entitlement which no one in life deserves.