You're being financially responsible but she thinks you're being stingy

[Gerhard]

So there's a balance, and she spends lavishly. That means that YOU must also spend lavishly, but on your own things.

 

True?

Read what I said again. I said she wants to spend lavishly.

[mem11363]

Is she raising young children?

 

I only ask because at some point it is reasonable to say - you want to spend more - go earn some.

 

 

 

I think I see what you're getting at. I earn 100% of the income, so she is dependent on any surplus I have for personal spending money. I budget some money for her personal things and budget about the same for my personal things. If not a precise balance, there is close to a balance. But she wants more. If I gave her $1 for every $1 I spend on things that are solely for me (not joint things), she would want more.

[Trialbyfire]

I think I see what you're getting at. I earn 100% of the income, so she is dependent on any surplus I have for personal spending money. I budget some money for her personal things and budget about the same for my personal things. If not a precise balance, there is close to a balance. But she wants more. If I gave her $1 for every $1 I spend on things that are solely for me (not joint things), she would want more.

Then let her know what the mechanics of your budget entail. Throw the books wide open for her viewing. If she doesn't understand, explain it to her. You're neither her parent or her keeper. Time to become spouses.

[Thaddeus]

Then let her know what the mechanics of your budget entail. Throw the books wide open for her viewing. If she doesn't understand, explain it to her. You're neither her parent or her keeper. Time to become spouses.

I agree with TBF here, but there's an element that may be missing from the equation.

 

There are some people that, for whatever reason, either just don't understand or don't care to understand how finances work. I personally know a couple (I can see their house from where I sit) that is currently in the midst of their second bankruptcy. No savings, they live hand-to-mouth, but one party in that relationship insists that the needs of that party are non-negotiable. And when the spouse says, "Hold on a minute, that's not a good use of our resources at the moment," the other spouse goes ballistic and insists, "I work hard! I DESERVE IT!!" (whatever "it" might happen to be at the moment).

 

There are times in a relationship when someone just has to take charge. Call it adult-child, call it whatever you wish, but sometimes - and it's truly unfortunate - it's just necessary.

[Gerhard]

If one needs to be controlling in order to remain prudent about how money is spent, then it is wise to be controlling.

 

Is she being unreasonable? I would say so. She isn't interested in the fine details of the budget, so I can only tell her as much as she'll listen to. And that isn't much.

This sounds very parent-child, not spouse-spouse... You are "right", and she is refusing to listen to your disciplinary lectures... It feels like you are talking about a rebellious teenager, who you do not respect as an equal...

Then I'm curious what you think takes precedence here. Should one be foolish with how their money is spent in order to retain the "spouse-spouse" qualities of a relationship? Or should one use a little education (as would be done with a child) to see that one's spouse handles finances in a responsible manner?

 

 

Operating within your budget and saving extra for a rainy day are different things. If your value system is such that a little extra should be set aside for a "rainy day", while she would rather have that money to spend excessively at Nordstrom, then what do you do?

 

While operating within a budget is easy, you can never know how much you need to set aside for a rainy day. I prefer to err on the side of caution and have explained that to my wife.

Again, it sounds like you are saying "my value system is RIGHT, and her's is WRONG, and there shall be no discussion or compromise..."

I apologize if I didn't make this clear earlier, but since we've been together, I've been the primary breadwinner and have far more experience, education and wisdom when it comes to managing finances than my wife does. Do you know why the CEO of a company is the CEO and the delivery boy of the company is the delivery boy?

 

My value system is right only if we don't wish to drain ourselves financially. I've explained to her what will happen if we overspend and she seems to understand that. But every once in a while she complains that I'm being stingy - when the real problem is that we don't have the kind of money she wants to spend without going into debt.

 

 

But she wants extra money to spend lavishly at places like Nordstrom. I don't spend lavishly on my non-essentials or hobbies.

One person's lavish is another person's stingy... As has been said many times, it's all about value systems... Maybe you need to admit that you are both holding on to your positions at opposite ends of the stingy-lavish divide (which means you are both equally wrong), and the solution is for both of you to compromise somewhat...

 

I'm not saying go into debt, but start treating your wife like an adult, and accept that her view of life is just as valid as yours... Only then can you start creating a joint budget that you are both happy with - it feels to me as if you are not open to that conversation currently, and I would guess your wife feels the same way...

Let's simplify this. Let's say you & your wife make 5000 per month. 3000 goes to bills, expenses, groceries, reserves for replacements, etc. 1000 goes into retirement. The remaining 1000 is split up evenly between each of you. But she isn't happy with just 500 per month spending money. She wants 1500. So you tell her the two of you would have to dip into either your retirement savings or go negative each month to accomplish that. Then she tells you you're being stingy. What do you do?

 

Question: do you want to be right, or do you want to solve this...?

Both

[Gerhard]

Is there anything wrong with your partner, that keeps her from getting a job ?

Nothing is wrong with her that would prevent her from working. She's in the process of changing careers, so she expects to go back to work soon.

 

IMO people who don't work always spend someone else's cash only too easily... Just like kids nagging for expensive gifts having no idea how hard their parents work to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. Someone who doesn't have to invest the effort into a job, and has no idea of the current finance of the family - will also have no clue how much money is left after paying necessary expenses and what is worth spending on.

 

What did your partner do before you met - when she was living alone and had to manage her own income and finance ?

She was living with family rent free.

[Trialbyfire]

I agree with TBF here, but there's an element that may be missing from the equation.

 

There are some people that, for whatever reason, either just don't understand or don't care to understand how finances work. I personally know a couple (I can see their house from where I sit) that is currently in the midst of their second bankruptcy. No savings, they live hand-to-mouth, but one party in that relationship insists that the needs of that party are non-negotiable. And when the spouse says, "Hold on a minute, that's not a good use of our resources at the moment," the other spouse goes ballistic and insists, "I work hard! I DESERVE IT!!" (whatever "it" might happen to be at the moment).

 

There are times in a relationship when someone just has to take charge. Call it adult-child, call it whatever you wish, but sometimes - and it's truly unfortunate - it's just necessary.

I didn't want to go into that possibility, since if she can't be fiscally responsible with due knowledge or is unwilling to comprehend fiscal responsibility, that's a bigger red flag than just complaining, without due knowledge.

 

Your average household finances aren't rocket science, whereby even someone in the low IQ terrain, can understand it, if they're willing to put some effort into it. Most often, people don't understand because they choose not to understand it or are too lazy to find out since it's just a matter of the most basic, elementary math of addition and subtraction.

[Gerhard]

Seoa, you should read his other thread. The topic of punishing or disciplining her was discussed in detail.

 

Gerhard, I really think you two have some major communication problems, to say the least. Marital counselling would be a great idea. If she won't go, then get individual therapy. This is not a remotely healthy relationship.

She isn't interested in marital counseling and at both individual counseling and support groups (not to mention in books I've read), I've been told to put my foot down. It's been made clear to me that if you don't put your foot down, they'll see you as weak and will walk all over you. However, I agree with you that it's wrong to "punish" a spouse as you would punish a child. But if the only alternative is to let her behavior slide, then she's getting complete control.

[Gerhard]

While this is generally true, it is *also* a cop-out. It is hard to reconcile different value systems, but it is easy to see where value systems stop and financial nonsense begins. Differing values is thinking no big deal of spending 500$ on nice shoes (while the another person cannot comprehend possible ever spending more than 20$). However, it is financial nonsense to compromise obvious financial goals to by those shoes.

So, I personally will drop 500$ on shoes, no problem, but never before 1) all the bills are paid; 2) all the saving deposits (retirement, emergency, vacations, any other goals etc.) are made and 3) after all this there is still some cash available.

 

The OP is out of line if his wife is out of the loop on the budget, but she is *also* out of line if she's aware of their budget and *still* whines about having more pocket money. The best solution I've come up with is simply to have fun money budgeted for indulgencies. Once those run out, too bad until the next month (not dipping into savings - unless all other pairs of shoes simultaneously self-destruct, the 500$ pair can wait.).

Very well said. You get a ten out of ten for that

[Gerhard]

I agree with TBF here, but there's an element that may be missing from the equation.

 

There are some people that, for whatever reason, either just don't understand or don't care to understand how finances work. I personally know a couple (I can see their house from where I sit) that is currently in the midst of their second bankruptcy. No savings, they live hand-to-mouth, but one party in that relationship insists that the needs of that party are non-negotiable. And when the spouse says, "Hold on a minute, that's not a good use of our resources at the moment," the other spouse goes ballistic and insists, "I work hard! I DESERVE IT!!" (whatever "it" might happen to be at the moment).

 

There are times in a relationship when someone just has to take charge. Call it adult-child, call it whatever you wish, but sometimes - and it's truly unfortunate - it's just necessary.

Also very well said. While our situation isn't anywhere as close to as bad as the one you used as an illustration, I believe it's important to the health of our future to see that we don't end up like that. She isn't interested in seeing the precise numbers behind our finances, but has been willing to listen to the details and what's available for "fun" money. However when she wants more than that and I have to say "no" because it doesn't fit into our budget, she says I'm being stingy.

 

I don't think this less about managing finances and more about being disrespected by being called "stingy" or "cheap" when I'm really trying to be responsible and prudent.

[2sure]

I know it was just an illustration, but unless you were disabled or had no desire to see the world, then it would be very easy to make a case for spending $$$ on vacations instead of a new couch. Then again, I haven't seen your couch and I don't know where your husband wants to go on vacation.

 

Just in my own defense...the couch was basically eaten by the dog. Great house, professionally decorated living room...and a couch with a HOLE in the middle seat. Big one. The dog ate the couch. He thinks its just, you know...still a comfy sofa. Furniture is not a priority for me, I prefer travel, dinner, experiences over stuff...but seriously. He is out of town, new sofa arrives saturday morning. Let him say a word.

[Gerhard]

 

Just in my own defense...the couch was basically eaten by the dog. Great house, professionally decorated living room...and a couch with a HOLE in the middle seat. Big one. The dog ate the couch. He thinks its just, you know...still a comfy sofa. Furniture is not a priority for me, I prefer travel, dinner, experiences over stuff...but seriously. He is out of town, new sofa arrives saturday morning. Let him say a word.

Better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission!

[Star Gazer]

Better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission!

 

Tell that to your wife!

[2sunny]

is this the same woman that tries to throw away any and all of your personal items from your previous marriage?

 

tell her if she wants more spending money to earn it.

[Trialbyfire]

I quickly glanced through Gerhard's old thread titles. Is there any respect in this marriage?

[Gerhard]

I don't think this less about managing finances and more about being disrespected by being called "stingy" or "cheap" when I'm really trying to be responsible and prudent.

I meant to say:

I think this is less about managing finances and more about being disrespected by being called "stingy" or "cheap" when I'm really trying to be responsible and prudent

[Gerhard]

My ex husband made a comment to his dad once that I was a "penny pincher." Well, guess what? I'm the one with a beautiful home on 40 acres. He still rents at the age of 42.

There's a fine balancing act between having a good material life and being able to be generous toward others with respect to money. For all I know, you lost a lot of friends because you were being a penny pincher.

[mem11363]

So to summarize:

- She is a healthy able bodied adult who could work if she chose

- At the moment her choice is to not work/not look hard for work

- You work full time

- She berates you for one or both of these reasons:

a. Being unwilling to forgo savings to enable her to have the "fun" budget she thinks she is entitled to OR

b. Being unwilling/unable to work more/harder and earn more money

 

I don't think you are controlling. I do think you are with a woman who has a huge sense of entitlement and a minimal work ethic.

 

I bet she is hot. Only a hot woman can create a reality distortion field so powerful, that even a rational man is disoriented.

 

 

 

There's a fine balancing act between having a good material life and being able to be generous toward others with respect to money. For all I know, you lost a lot of friends because you were being a penny pincher.

[JustLooking123]

She isn't interested in marital counseling and at both individual counseling and support groups (not to mention in books I've read), I've been told to put my foot down. It's been made clear to me that if you don't put your foot down, they'll see you as weak and will walk all over you. However, I agree with you that it's wrong to "punish" a spouse as you would punish a child. But if the only alternative is to let her behavior slide, then she's getting complete control.

 

Actually I suggested individual counselling not for you to learn ways to control and punish your wife, but to investigate YOUR PART in this shockingly dysfunctional relationship. She is not 100% the bad guy, and you are not 100% the prudent, responsible one. There is a very sick dynamic between you two, and 1/2 of that is yours. You cannot control her, but you can control yourself.

 

Also, what are you looking for here? Approval for your behavior? Every suggestion you get is brushed off with "buts" or "howevers," followed by your justification of why this means you should get to treat your wife like a child. An example of this is in your quote above.

[mem11363]

Reverse the genders. Then tell me that you would for one second think it is ok for the MALE to:

- Choose not to work (no kids to watch)

- Complain that wife is not giving him enough discretionary spend

 

We would all be saying he was a deadbeat and none of us would be blaming her. Myself included.

 

 

Actually I suggested individual counselling not for you to learn ways to control and punish your wife, but to investigate YOUR PART in this shockingly dysfunctional relationship. She is not 100% the bad guy, and you are not 100% the prudent, responsible one. There is a very sick dynamic between you two, and 1/2 of that is yours. You cannot control her, but you can control yourself.

 

Also, what are you looking for here? Approval for your behavior? Every suggestion you get is brushed off with "buts" or "howevers," followed by your justification of why this means you should get to treat your wife like a child. An example of this is in your quote above.

[Sam Spade]

Reverse the genders. Then tell me that you would for one second think it is ok for the MALE to:

- Choose not to work (no kids to watch)

- Complain that wife is not giving him enough discretionary spend

 

We would all be saying he was a deadbeat and none of us would be blaming her. Myself included.

 

I missed that part, if they have no kids, there is really no excuse for her not working and making her own damned money. (Even with kids, I think it is a huge mistake to agree to a stay at home mom scenario; maybe take time off up to a year after ueach kid, but that' pretty much it for me...)

 

anyway, that said, I agree with posters who suggest that there may be unhealthy dynamic that goes beyond who's "right" and "wrong". i think that the OP is being "right" about the finances, but I'm not sure he's approaching it in the most sensible matter....

[Trialbyfire]

Reverse the genders. Then tell me that you would for one second think it is ok for the MALE to:

- Choose not to work (no kids to watch)

- Complain that wife is not giving him enough discretionary spend

 

We would all be saying he was a deadbeat and none of us would be blaming her. Myself included.

mem, go back and read his other threads. While I think that Justlooking is being overly-dramatic, this marriage lacks respect, on both sides.

[2sunny]

if she wants more money - tell HER to earn it. in fact when she earns it - tell her to also put half of what she brings home into retirement or contribute to the household.

 

i think she has some big balls to mooch off of you and then demand more spending money without the thought of contributing.

 

doesn't matter if she's between careers... nothing keeps her from working each day if SHE wants more money.

 

Gerhard - start setting some boundaries and requiring her to participate in the marriage instead of her expecting you to provide everything while she makes demands.

 

no wonder she has so much time that she spends it worrying about how to dispose of your personal effects and spend more money on herself. she needs to get busy... does she volunteer?

[Gerhard]

Actually I suggested individual counselling not for you to learn ways to control and punish your wife, but to investigate YOUR PART in this shockingly dysfunctional relationship. She is not 100% the bad guy, and you are not 100% the prudent, responsible one. There is a very sick dynamic between you two, and 1/2 of that is yours. You cannot control her, but you can control yourself.

Investigating my part in the relationship with the hope that it will put a stop to the inappropriate behavior that she is engaging in and rid the relationship of this unharmonious aspect? Or investigating my part for some other reason? If it's for some other reason, then even if my wife were a 100% angel in every aspect and I never had to react to any inappropriate behavior, then by your rationale, I'd still need individual counseling.

 

I have no objection to individual counseling and have been to it before. So I know what it's all about. I've already spoken with professionals about my wife's behavior and I'm fairly happy with the advice I've received.

 

Also, what are you looking for here? Approval for your behavior?

I don't need approval for my behavior. I'm just trying to get a sense as to what others have done in similar situations, what the results have been and what are the value systems of others.

 

Every suggestion you get is brushed off with "buts" or "howevers," followed by your justification of why this means you should get to treat your wife like a child. An example of this is in your quote above.

It's very possible that I'm not expressing myself as well as I should. I'm curious what about my quote above demonstrates that I'm looking for a justification to treat my wife like a child?

 

Remember, she's engaging in a type of behavior that is detrimental to the health of the relationship. There are many things I could do to put it to a stop, many of which I have tried. Some of the things I am doing might be hurting the relationship more without my being aware of it and some of the things I'm doing might be helping the relationship without my being aware of it. What it seems like on the surface isn't necessarily what it is underneath.

[Gerhard]

anyway, that said, I agree with posters who suggest that there may be unhealthy dynamic that goes beyond who's "right" and "wrong". i think that the OP is being "right" about the finances, but I'm not sure he's approaching it in the most sensible matter....

What do you think might be more sensible manners?