You're being financially responsible but she thinks you're being stingy

[LakesideDream]

Not to hijack the thread, but how is it even possible? *You* earned the money, and even in the worst divorce scenario she should have left with no more than 50% of the assets (and dining tables :sick:).

 

 

Oh... come on. After a 25 year marriage, both kids are grown, your 51 years old... and find out your loving wife has been fu**ing a guy most of your marriage and now she wants to leave to be with him....

 

How quickly would you want to be out of that situation? We lived in a State when a divorce could take place in 48 hours or less for permenant residents. I bought the paperwork necessary from the courthouse, we spent a few days filling it out and getting everything notarized, and the deed was done.

 

I let her have everything she wanted. I wanted peace. Later I regretted not trying to get half of the 401k, blah blah... but frankly it would have cost more for a contested divorce with lawyers than I would have recouped asking for a "share". I began the road to peace as soon as the divorce was final (72hrs later). The money in the bank was supposed to be "mine" however she got to the bank an hour before I did and withdrew it all.. leaving a few checks floating. OH well... what was I going to do? Call Judge Judy?

 

I'm fine now, so no harm done.

[Trialbyfire]

Let's say you're in charge of ensuring you put away enough each month for retirement. Your wife wants to spend excessively to the point that you'd have to stop putting money into retirement to accommodate her. If you give her the money, you're not looking out for the interests of yours & her future. If you don't give her the money, you become "stingy".

I guess that's reliant on why you're solely in charge of ensuring for your retirement and whether or not anything financial, has been discussed between you.

 

Are you being controlling or is she being unreasonable? There are two sides to every story.

Her complaints aren't that I'm spending on things she deems unnecessary, as I'm fairly conservative with money. The complaints lie in that I'm not buying her as much as I bought for my first wife and that I'm not getting her other things she wants, but doesn't need. She fails to see that I'm very generous with respect to what percentage of excess budget she gets.

Just answer my question. What are you spending money on?

[Jersey Shortie]

Lakeside, I know you didn't tell your story to get sympathy but I am sorry that happened to you and am astounded that someone that was with you for 25 years, could treat you like that for all that time. I am glad that you are back on your feet and don't have to deal with the preasure of that situation anymore and I hope you find a better woman then your first wife.

 

As for budget issues, I think that it's important to have a budget, and important to give a little on the budget. If your wife wants to spend oddles at Norstroms, yeah that's not cool. But if she wants to buy a new dress or shoes that might seem expensive, sometimes you should let her. I know guys get pissed at how much we can spend on these things but they do make us feel more like a woman. How we look isn't only important to us, but honestly, it's important to the men we are with too.

 

But I think it was good advice to the OP to sit down with his lady and point out their budget.

[Vlad]

1.-That is what you get for getting married a second time

2.- Stop being such a cheap bastard and buy her some stuff or take her to Cancun.

3.- You didn’t get married for the second time with a stupid girl right? If she thinks you are being cheap it’s because she knows you have money saved (for whatever reason) and you are not willing to spend a bit of it with her, so just go ahead and take some money out and pleasure your woman.

[Gerhard]

I guess that's reliant on why you're solely in charge of ensuring for your retirement and whether or not anything financial, has been discussed between you.

 

Are you being controlling or is she being unreasonable? There are two sides to every story.

Just answer my question. What are you spending money on?

Most of the $$$ goes to bills. What remains goes to other household expenses or reserves for replacements. We do most R&R things together, so neither of us is hogging the budget there. She wants to spend money that we don't have. If one needs to be controlling in order to remain prudent about how money is spent, then it is wise to be controlling.

 

Is she being unreasonable? I would say so. She isn't interested in the fine details of the budget, so I can only tell her as much as she'll listen to. And that isn't much.

[Gerhard]

Lakeside, I know you didn't tell your story to get sympathy but I am sorry that happened to you and am astounded that someone that was with you for 25 years, could treat you like that for all that time. I am glad that you are back on your feet and don't have to deal with the preasure of that situation anymore and I hope you find a better woman then your first wife.

 

As for budget issues, I think that it's important to have a budget, and important to give a little on the budget. If your wife wants to spend oddles at Norstroms, yeah that's not cool. But if she wants to buy a new dress or shoes that might seem expensive, sometimes you should let her. I know guys get pissed at how much we can spend on these things but they do make us feel more like a woman. How we look isn't only important to us, but honestly, it's important to the men we are with too.

 

But I think it was good advice to the OP to sit down with his lady and point out their budget.

 

Operating within your budget and saving extra for a rainy day are different things. If your value system is such that a little extra should be set aside for a "rainy day", while she would rather have that money to spend excessively at Nordstrom, then what do you do?

 

While operating within a budget is easy, you can never know how much you need to set aside for a rainy day. I prefer to err on the side of caution and have explained that to my wife.

[Trialbyfire]

Most of the $$$ goes to bills. What remains goes to other household expenses or reserves for replacements. We do most R&R things together, so neither of us is hogging the budget there. She wants to spend money that we don't have. If one needs to be controlling in order to remain prudent about how money is spent, then it is wise to be controlling.

 

Is she being unreasonable? I would say so. She isn't interested in the fine details of the budget, so I can only tell her as much as she'll listen to. And that isn't much.

I would insist that she be interested in the fine details of the budget and not allow her to spend another nickel, until she understands it.

 

She's an adult. You cannot put your foot down on an adult within a marriage by making unilateral decisions and expecting her to abide by them with no knowledge of where your decision comes from. While this last paragraph might be in conflict with my first paragraph, the difference is that the first paragraph arms her with knowledge, knowledge that is necessary for her to understand what it takes to comfortably retire.

 

You also didn't answer my question about what you're spending money on. Let's say that every penny you spend money on, is solely for your own benefit. Let's say that she primarily spends money on things that you jointly enjoy but the balance, on herself. Is there really a balance?

[LakesideDream]

I would insist that she be interested in the fine details of the budget and not allow her to spend another nickel, until she understands it.

 

She's an adult. You cannot put your foot down on an adult within a marriage by making unilateral decisions and expecting her to abide by them with no knowledge of where your decision comes from. While this last paragraph might be in conflict with my first paragraph, the difference is that the first paragraph arms her with knowledge, knowledge that is necessary for her to understand what it takes to comfortably retire.

 

You also didn't answer my question about what you're spending money on. Let's say that every penny you spend money on, is solely for your own benefit. Let's say that she primarily spends money on things that you jointly enjoy but the balance, on herself. Is there really a balance?

 

 

Great idea TBF, but is it "real"? I was a tough as nails retired Marine by 30 and I couldn't deal with the "consenquences" of making the financial decisions. Before the kids arrived, finances were not a problem at all. We had a nice 1 bedroom apartment, she worked part time, and I made more money than we spent. Two kids in 13 months change everything. We bought a house, furniture, baby accoutermond, blah blah.. and began living on my income alone. I worked 10 hours a day six days a week to support the lifestyle (no complaint). If the wife couldn't go to Nordies once in a while, and spend money on other things I won't mention (didn't find out for 20 years) she made life unpleasant.

 

I didn't want to live in an unpleasant situation. I was by then in my 30's with two toddlers I was responsible for. I can honestly say that I never won a single "arguement" that "mattered" in 25 years of marriage. Not once. The alternative was not acceptable to me. The welfare of the children was always the deciding factor.

 

The results make it obvious. As soon as the kids with adults and out... Bang, welcome to divorceville.

[Trialbyfire]

Lakeside, perhaps you can explain how what I said, has to do with what you said? I'm not understanding the correlation, since Gerhard, is already limiting her spending and is only upset about her complaints, if I understand him correctly.

 

As for your situation, I see all kinds of red flags but don't want to get into it, for fear of it being considered off-topic.

[LakesideDream]

Lakeside, perhaps you can explain how what I said, has to do with what you said? I'm not understanding the correlation, since Gerhard, is already limiting her spending and is only upset about her complaints, if I understand him correctly.

 

As for your situation, I see all kinds of red flags but don't want to get into it, for fear of it being considered off-topic.

 

 

I missed the "cannot" in "put your foot down..... oops! I apologise.

[Trialbyfire]

I missed the "cannot" in "put your foot down..... oops! I apologise.

No apology is necessary. I've done that many a time.

[Gerhard]

I would insist that she be interested in the fine details of the budget and not allow her to spend another nickel, until she understands it.

 

She's an adult. You cannot put your foot down on an adult within a marriage by making unilateral decisions and expecting her to abide by them with no knowledge of where your decision comes from. While this last paragraph might be in conflict with my first paragraph, the difference is that the first paragraph arms her with knowledge, knowledge that is necessary for her to understand what it takes to comfortably retire.

 

You also didn't answer my question about what you're spending money on. Let's say that every penny you spend money on, is solely for your own benefit. Let's say that she primarily spends money on things that you jointly enjoy but the balance, on herself. Is there really a balance?

With respect to things that only one of us directly benefits from, there is a balance. But she wants extra money to spend lavishly at places like Nordstrom. I don't spend lavishly on my non-essentials or hobbies. I try to have us keep it in moderation so we don't overspend. There are some things I buy for myself from time to time and my wife does the same.

[Trialbyfire]

With respect to things that only one of us directly benefits from, there is a balance. But she wants extra money to spend lavishly at places like Nordstrom. I don't spend lavishly on my non-essentials or hobbies. I try to have us keep it in moderation so we don't overspend. There are some things I buy for myself from time to time and my wife does the same.

Gerhard, you've avoided all my direct questions. Is this the way you communicate budget issues with your wife? It feels almost passive-aggressive, in that you avoid being open about what the true issues are. I say this with due respect so that my perspective might help you with your communication with your spouse.

[Star Gazer]

With respect to things that only one of us directly benefits from, there is a balance. But she wants extra money to spend lavishly at places like Nordstrom.

 

So there's a balance, and she spends lavishly. That means that YOU must also spend lavishly, but on your own things.

 

True?

[Sam Spade]

OP, I'll share something with you. While we were married, my wife was always broke (or so she said). She earned more than I did and I paid the big household expenses (mortgage, utilities, insurance, etc). Funnily, now that we're separated and getting a divorce and she owns her own house, she magically has all this money. Every time I think of that dynamic, I punch myself right in the face. Like you, I was known as less than generous. The household books were completely open. My stbx was disclosed and involved in every financial aspect of my business and our lives together.

 

Tip: It's not about the money

 

It'll take a lot of woman to get by the current boundary I have on this issue. I wish them well

 

So, what's the current boundary? I'm in the process of building my own, so I, and apparently other posters, will benefit from knowing how wiseguy carhil duz it.

I think the ideal scenario is for both spouses to work, split the bills proportionately to their income, or in half of incomes are closed, allocate money to joint savings, and keep everything else separate. That way, with a prenup, if shet hits the fan, the only thing that gets divided is the shet that was indeed joint to begin with...

 

Also, what it was about if it was not about the money? No trust?

[seoa]

If one needs to be controlling in order to remain prudent about how money is spent, then it is wise to be controlling.

 

Is she being unreasonable? I would say so. She isn't interested in the fine details of the budget, so I can only tell her as much as she'll listen to. And that isn't much.

 

This sounds very parent-child, not spouse-spouse... You are "right", and she is refusing to listen to your disciplinary lectures... It feels like you are talking about a rebellious teenager, who you do not respect as an equal...

 

Operating within your budget and saving extra for a rainy day are different things. If your value system is such that a little extra should be set aside for a "rainy day", while she would rather have that money to spend excessively at Nordstrom, then what do you do?

 

While operating within a budget is easy, you can never know how much you need to set aside for a rainy day. I prefer to err on the side of caution and have explained that to my wife.

 

Again, it sounds like you are saying "my value system is RIGHT, and her's is WRONG, and there shall be no discussion or compromise..."

 

But she wants extra money to spend lavishly at places like Nordstrom. I don't spend lavishly on my non-essentials or hobbies.

 

One person's lavish is another person's stingy... As has been said many times, it's all about value systems... Maybe you need to admit that you are both holding on to your positions at opposite ends of the stingy-lavish divide (which means you are both equally wrong), and the solution is for both of you to compromise somewhat...

 

I'm not saying go into debt, but start treating your wife like an adult, and accept that her view of life is just as valid as yours... Only then can you start creating a joint budget that you are both happy with - it feels to me as if you are not open to that conversation currently, and I would guess your wife feels the same way...

 

Question: do you want to be right, or do you want to solve this...?

[Neutrino]

Let's say you're the primary breadwinner in the household and are the one who is better with numbers when it comes to balancing the budget. Your spouse wants certain things that cost money, but you can't justify the expense of them because buying these things would cause you to exceed your monthly budget. It might be some fancy jewelry; It might be a trip to Cancun; It might be a shopping spree at Nordstrom; But you know the budget and you know it wouldn't be wise to take on these expenses. You explain this to your spouse, but she gets angry with you and insists that the problem is with you being stingy, cheap and inconsiderate.

 

I've had friends tell me they've dealt with this and now I'm dealing with it. I'm curious how others deal with it.

 

Is there anything wrong with your partner, that keeps her from getting a job ?

 

IMO people who don't work always spend someone else's cash only too easily... Just like kids nagging for expensive gifts having no idea how hard their parents work to put food on the table and a roof over their heads. Someone who doesn't have to invest the effort into a job, and has no idea of the current finance of the family - will also have no clue how much money is left after paying necessary expenses and what is worth spending on.

 

What did your partner do before you met - when she was living alone and had to manage her own income and finance ?

[mem11363]

Seoa,

The very definition of someone who wants/needs instant gratification - which sounds like the problem with his wife - is that it is the definition of immaturity. Of how a child behaves.

 

I find it hard to fathom that someone would speak like both these people are "equally wrong" in the middle of the current economic situation. That situation was caused by way too many people buying stuff that they couldn't afford.

 

You sound like the spokesperson for all the angry misunderstood spenders of the world. Especially since you never once mention that if "stuff" really is that important to her, maybe she could upgrade her job/income.

 

 

 

 

 

This sounds very parent-child, not spouse-spouse... You are "right", and she is refusing to listen to your disciplinary lectures... It feels like you are talking about a rebellious teenager, who you do not respect as an equal...

 

 

 

Again, it sounds like you are saying "my value system is RIGHT, and her's is WRONG, and there shall be no discussion or compromise..."

 

 

 

One person's lavish is another person's stingy... As has been said many times, it's all about value systems... Maybe you need to admit that you are both holding on to your positions at opposite ends of the stingy-lavish divide (which means you are both equally wrong), and the solution is for both of you to compromise somewhat...

 

I'm not saying go into debt, but start treating your wife like an adult, and accept that her view of life is just as valid as yours... Only then can you start creating a joint budget that you are both happy with - it feels to me as if you are not open to that conversation currently, and I would guess your wife feels the same way...

 

Question: do you want to be right, or do you want to solve this...?

[JustLooking123]

This sounds very parent-child, not spouse-spouse... You are "right", and she is refusing to listen to your disciplinary lectures... It feels like you are talking about a rebellious teenager, who you do not respect as an equal...

 

Seoa, you should read his other thread. The topic of punishing or disciplining her was discussed in detail.

 

Gerhard, I really think you two have some major communication problems, to say the least. Marital counselling would be a great idea. If she won't go, then get individual therapy. This is not a remotely healthy relationship.

[Sam Spade]

 

One person's lavish is another person's stingy... As has been said many times, it's all about value systems... Maybe you need to admit that you are both holding on to your positions at opposite ends of the stingy-lavish divide (which means you are both equally wrong), and the solution is for both of you to compromise somewhat...

 

 

While this is generally true, it is *also* a cop-out. It is hard to reconcile different value systems, but it is easy to see where value systems stop and financial nonsense begins. Differing values is thinking no big deal of spending 500$ on nice shoes (while the another person cannot comprehend possible ever spending more than 20$). However, it is financial nonsense to compromise obvious financial goals to by those shoes.

So, I personally will drop 500$ on shoes, no problem, but never before 1) all the bills are paid; 2) all the saving deposits (retirement, emergency, vacations, any other goals etc.) are made and 3) after all this there is still some cash available.

 

The OP is out of line if his wife is out of the loop on the budget, but she is *also* out of line if she's aware of their budget and *still* whines about having more pocket money. The best solution I've come up with is simply to have fun money budgeted for indulgencies. Once those run out, too bad until the next month (not dipping into savings - unless all other pairs of shoes simultaneously self-destruct, the 500$ pair can wait.).

[Mz. Pixie]

I agree that both partners need a little bit of their own cash every month to spend as they wish- without having to answer to the other spouse. She could save it up for something larger that she wants.

 

I was in this same place when I was married before. He spent lavishly but I did not.

 

I'm not material by nature- I'd rather be happy than have alot of money but I would like to point out something.

 

I think some men are unprepared for what a woman considers necessary and what they do. I'm not saying she's due to spend on a vacation or such like that- or even $500.00 shoes (never seen any I'd want). I'm talking about all the little expenses that they never really thought about.

 

For instance- haircuts, coloring if you do, makeup, clothing, perfume and the like. All part of "maintenance" and "keeping yourself up". I'm not talking about spending $200.00 on hair coloring- I happen to color my own hair but some ladies do not.

 

If you're squashing her spending on little things she finds necessary- well that can cause alot of resentment.

 

My husband was unprepared for these type of expenses because his ex spent virtually nothing on her physical upkeep. He's adjust now and knows that hey if I need to spend $20.00 on a package of wrinkle cream (hey, I'm over 40) then he doesn't fuss about it.

 

I'm not talking about big spending- or lavish items- just the everyday necessary stuff that husbands are usually not aware of.

[mem11363]

I wouldn't argue with anything you said below. My wife colors her hair herself. My only point was if you are spending some serious money on having "other people" color your hair, cut your hair etc, then there is less money left for that $700 outfit at Nordstroms, or that 3 day mini-vacation.

 

I totally agree each person should have - ideally the same amount - of discretionary spending that they can do anything they want with.

 

 

 

 

I agree that both partners need a little bit of their own cash every month to spend as they wish- without having to answer to the other spouse. She could save it up for something larger that she wants.

 

I was in this same place when I was married before. He spent lavishly but I did not.

 

I'm not material by nature- I'd rather be happy than have alot of money but I would like to point out something.

 

I think some men are unprepared for what a woman considers necessary and what they do. I'm not saying she's due to spend on a vacation or such like that- or even $500.00 shoes (never seen any I'd want). I'm talking about all the little expenses that they never really thought about.

 

For instance- haircuts, coloring if you do, makeup, clothing, perfume and the like. All part of "maintenance" and "keeping yourself up". I'm not talking about spending $200.00 on hair coloring- I happen to color my own hair but some ladies do not.

 

If you're squashing her spending on little things she finds necessary- well that can cause alot of resentment.

 

My husband was unprepared for these type of expenses because his ex spent virtually nothing on her physical upkeep. He's adjust now and knows that hey if I need to spend $20.00 on a package of wrinkle cream (hey, I'm over 40) then he doesn't fuss about it.

 

I'm not talking about big spending- or lavish items- just the everyday necessary stuff that husbands are usually not aware of.

[seoa]

Seoa,

You sound like the spokesperson for all the angry misunderstood spenders of the world. Especially since you never once mention that if "stuff" really is that important to her, maybe she could upgrade her job/income.

 

Ha ha - no, I'm financially responsible - I pay into my pension & savings before I spend on the fun stuff... but I do like to have fun with my 'fun money' - I think I keep a healthy balance between saving "some" for the future, and enjoying the moment...

 

I just happen to think that his posts made him sound like he has a bit of a tendency to the "fear of the future" savings mentality, and the "my values are important, other people's are not" perspective on general spending...

 

Seoa, you should read his other thread. The topic of punishing or disciplining her was discussed in detail.

 

OK, so a quick search on the OP's previous comments:

I told her very nicely and clearly that I would not tolerate any more references to my ex-wife. I had earlier told her I would withhold getting her some non-essential household goods that she wants, but can't afford on her own until she dropped her obsession about my ex-wife.

 

I am running away from this thread, and the unhealthiness therein, very very fast...

[Trialbyfire]

I agree that this sounds more like a parent/child relationship, at least from the fiscal perspective.

 

Having said that, being fiscally responsible is a necessity, no matter how much income you bring in.

 

But...you cannot expect that someone who has no knowledge of finances, can understand what it takes to retire comfortably. In withholding this information, you play further into the parent/child relationship dynamics. In essence, you're enabling the child within her, in order to maintain control. So, give her the tools to grow up and become a responsible adult.

[Gerhard]

I would insist that she be interested in the fine details of the budget and not allow her to spend another nickel, until she understands it.

 

She's an adult. You cannot put your foot down on an adult within a marriage by making unilateral decisions and expecting her to abide by them with no knowledge of where your decision comes from. While this last paragraph might be in conflict with my first paragraph, the difference is that the first paragraph arms her with knowledge, knowledge that is necessary for her to understand what it takes to comfortably retire.

 

You also didn't answer my question about what you're spending money on. Let's say that every penny you spend money on, is solely for your own benefit. Let's say that she primarily spends money on things that you jointly enjoy but the balance, on herself. Is there really a balance?

I think I see what you're getting at. I earn 100% of the income, so she is dependent on any surplus I have for personal spending money. I budget some money for her personal things and budget about the same for my personal things. If not a precise balance, there is close to a balance. But she wants more. If I gave her $1 for every $1 I spend on things that are solely for me (not joint things), she would want more.