You're being financially responsible but she thinks you're being stingy

[2sure]

Carhill.....any chance you can be my and my H's life coach?? Come live with us, or at least...just stand by as a translator for every conversation we have? I hope IC and MC help my own communication skills as much as it seems to improved your own.

[carhill]

LOL, I'm getting a divorce. Don't look to me for any insight or expertise about marriage

 

I think, if you want it to (and this applies to the OP as well), counseling can help with aspects of behavior and human interaction.

 

Personally, I've found it has given me a calmer perspective on stressful situations. The emotions are still there, but I process them differently. No panacea, as some of my blow-ups here (most notably in James' sexless marriage thread) attest to. Like life, it's a work in progress

[Trialbyfire]

This isn't really a big issue. It's an issue if I wish to further pursue that type of photography, as I'll have to either a) talk my wife into being a model; b) find another model; c) use someone else as a model.

BTW, I think it was someone else who brought up nudes. You may want to revisit that thread. Modeling shots is all I want to do. Nude or bikini or other type of modeling shots. And if I do that, I'd prefer to shoot photos of my wife. Two reasons: I don't think it's fair to her to use someone else as a model and she's model-worthy.

So this issue has been resolved between the two of you or are you awaiting another day to get your way?

 

She began engaging in behavior that I felt was detrimental to the relationship. Even if it had been someone else, I would still say the behavior is detrimental to a relationship. Since she wouldn't go to counseling, I looked for ways to put a stop to her behavior. I'm not a seasoned veteran at this, but I tried various tactics - some of which seem to work and some of which obviously didn't work. In my efforts to get her behavior to stop, I may have shown what would otherwise be a lack of respect. But it was intended first and foremost to correct her behavior with respect to her attitude and fixation on my ex-wife.

Note how everything is her fault and that you're the reasonable man trying to put your foot down? That's the exact attitude I was talking about, being insensitive to her needs. It's all about your wants and needs.

 

It takes two to tango. Go to marriage counseling.

[Ronni_W]

(Have you two considered couples' counseling?)

It was one of the first things I tried to do to settle things down, but she refused.

That is just sad! The way you are describing it, it seems that she may want her marriage to be all that a happy and healthy marriage can be...but without making her own mental and emotional contributions? (Given that you two have planned for her to go back to work soon, I didn't also had "financial" contributions.)

 

One suggestion that I read in some 'relationship book', is to just schedule an MC session and tell the reluctant spouse that [you] are going regardless and *IF* [she] wants the counselor to hear her side of the story, she is more than welcome to attend. And then to go alone, if it turns out that way.

I haven't had occasion to try this, but the theory is that, most often, the other will NOT like the idea of not being able to get in her/his own complaints and resentments.

 

In any case, best of luck.

[Gerhard]

Angie,

Perfectly said. Ramsey has a great radio show.

 

Gerhard, You said your wife is not materialistic, just a bit fixated on your ex-wife which is causing these behavioral issues.

 

Is there a reason she has not come to the realization that you are over your ex, and that you truly love her, and love her more then your ex?

 

I have been sympathetic to your situation from the first post in this thread - and I still am - it is just a mystery to me that she could be SO crazed about your ex wife without some substantive justification.

It's a mystery to me too. But I have some theories:

1) She moved into my home, which I occupied with my ex-wife

2) My ex-wife called me & left a message unexpectedly about six months ago

3) Her value system is that old momentos and photos should be thrown away; My value system is that they shouldn't be thrown away. She sees my actions from her value system and not from my value system.

 

I sure hope you can reassure her, because it must feel really bad for her to be in your ex wifes giant "shoes" so to speak. Is there simply some attribute of your ex she feels she can't compete with: Vogue cover girl, Doctorate from Stanford? Or do you just have some residual feelings that she is able to accurately pick up on?

She repeatedly tests me to try to catch if I have any residual feelings. But I don't think I inadvertently show any, as I don't want to have anything to do with my ex-wife. I do sense that there is something about her appearance she's self conscious of that she feels is inferior to that of my ex-wife.

 

You seem like a very balanced, rational person and I don't think you would stay with a crazy woman. So if she isn't crazy, then maybe there is a basis to her issues with your ex. Earlier on I though Ronnie and others were off base - now I think they were just a few steps ahead of me....

I'm staying with her for several reasons. But the ones that are pertinent here are primarily that I believe that she will grow out of this phase. That is provided I don't pour fuel on the fire. I think to a certain degree she is just yanking my chain. And if she ceases to get a reaction out of me, then she'll slow down or altogether stop. So I've stopped giving her a reaction.

[Gerhard]

OP, try this: "I feel taken advantage of and disrespected".

 

That'll shut her up, if my experience is any guide

 

The key is sharing how you feel, not projecting philosophies onto others, including your wife. The clearest way to get your 'point' across is to communicate how another's actions affect *you*, rather than attacking or criticizing them. I had to work on this in MC, as I have a propensity to talk 'at' someone rather than 'with' them when I am irritated or upset. Picture a phone headset with the earpiece nowhere near the ear

 

Personally, I'd just call it an incompatible day, but you know your M best. Good luck

Thanks for the wake up call! I was using the "I feel..." line earlier and have completely forgot to use that. I told her many times that I felt she was disrespecting me. I'll have to go back down that track next time there is a blowup.

[Gerhard]

So this issue has been resolved between the two of you or are you awaiting another day to get your way?

It's been resolved to my satisfaction. We did a couple of wonderful photo shoots recently. I'm curious when I want to do another how willing she'll be.

 

Note how everything is her fault and that you're the reasonable man trying to put your foot down? That's the exact attitude I was talking about, being insensitive to her needs. It's all about your wants and needs.

 

It takes two to tango. Go to marriage counseling.

Among the tactics I tried was being extra sensitive to her needs. I did that and she continued with her fixation on my ex-wife.

[JustLooking123]

I think we can all type 'til we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day, these are the options, as I see them:

1. Let things continue as they are, and either complain on the internet or accept them.

2. Continue to try various techniques to control/change her behavior, which have had minimal to no success thus far, and deal with whatever results are seen (or not seen).

3. Insist upon marital counselling. I'm not big on ultimatums, but in this case, none of us here can provide the type and degree of help you guys need. Set an ultimatum that she either goes to counselling with you, or you separate. Someone else had a good suggestion of making the appointment, then going with or without her.

[2sunny]

it's frustrating to continue to give options or advice and to have OP give any and every excuse why the solution won't work for him.

 

there is no action happening here that will make things different for him and/or his W. just reasons why it won't work.

 

if nothing changes - nothing changes. expect more of the same - expect it to look exactly the same with your W 20 years from now if you don't want to incur changes in your M that would make things different than they are now.

 

sitting there complaining about it or giving lots of reasons why a suggestion will not work for you is not good enough... IF you expect things to get better.

 

the question is - what are you willing to do about this?

[Gerhard]

it's frustrating to continue to give options or advice and to have OP give any and every excuse why the solution won't work for him.

I'm a little confused why you think I'm making excuses. I'm merely stating things as they are.

 

there is no action happening here that will make things different for him and/or his W. just reasons why it won't work.

As I've indicated earlier, I've tried many different things, some of which have been more effective than others. One of the biggest problems is that she won't go in for counseling. I'm beginning to wonder just how serious she is when she says she won't go in for counseling. For example, if I go to a counselor, let her know and come back saying the counselor wants to hear her version, would she meet with the counselor and offer her version? Perhaps others in here have had experience with that test.

 

if nothing changes - nothing changes. expect more of the same - expect it to look exactly the same with your W 20 years from now if you don't want to incur changes in your M that would make things different than they are now.

 

sitting there complaining about it or giving lots of reasons why a suggestion will not work for you is not good enough... IF you expect things to get better.

 

the question is - what are you willing to do about this?

I'm not here to complain. I'm here to get ideas from others. And I've gotten some very good ideas here.

[Ronni_W]

Gerhard, even without your wife, it would appear that you could still benefit greatly from having a few sessions with a couples' counselor. Because there ARE things that can be happening much, er, differently in your household and marriage...on BOTH sides, not just your wife's.

For example, if I go to a counselor, let her know and come back saying the counselor wants to hear her version, would she meet with the counselor and offer her version?

Do you mean that you'd lie to your wife and just say the counselor wants to hear her version?

 

In any case. I was the one who suggested marital counseling to my (ex)husband, but was already so fed-up at that point that I had ZERO interest in attending myself. After a few sessions, the counselor said she needed to see me...and I did end up going.

Until faced with the reality of the counselor making the request, though, I would have kept saying, "No freaking way am I going!"

 

What will your wife do? There is only ONE way for you to find out for sure, isn't there?

[Gerhard]

Gerhard, even without your wife, it would appear that you could still benefit greatly from having a few sessions with a couples' counselor. Because there ARE things that can be happening much, er, differently in your household and marriage...on BOTH sides, not just your wife's.

 

Do you mean that you'd lie to your wife and just say the counselor wants to hear her version?

 

In any case. I was the one who suggested marital counseling to my (ex)husband, but was already so fed-up at that point that I had ZERO interest in attending myself. After a few sessions, the counselor said she needed to see me...and I did end up going.

Until faced with the reality of the counselor making the request, though, I would have kept saying, "No freaking way am I going!"

 

What will your wife do? There is only ONE way for you to find out for sure, isn't there?

Since you wrote, I've been to counseling a couple times. The counselor wants to hear my wife's side of the story and I've expressed that to my wife - but she still won't go. Any ideas?

[Ronni_W]

The counselor wants to hear my wife's side of the story and I've expressed that to my wife - but she still won't go.

Cheers, Gerhard. Good on you for doing all that you can to improve things.

 

About joint counseling, unfortunately all that's left is for you to accept that it's not going to happen because your wife won't participate.

It is, however, within your own power, control and authority to assess the current information and evidence at hand, and make new decisions that will support your own needs, wants and goals for your own life and life experiences. (Independent of your wife, I mean...not to just make unilateral decisions that could be harmful/damaging to her. If this bit makes sense? )

 

In any case. Hopefully you have gained, and will continue to gain, positives from your counseling.

Best of luck.

[boogieboy]

Since this thread seems to be dyin out, its a great time to go slightly off topic.

 

Gerhard, I checked your other thread and you say that experts have told you that no matter how many things you destroy to keep your wife happy, she will never be satisfied.

 

SO I think Gerhard needs help in finding out how to help rid his wife of her insecurities.

 

Personally I think getting rid your of the wedding photo of your ex wife would be more a meaningful gesture to your wife. But maybe you have too many pictures for that. I'm a burner of all things with ex's, so I guess Im not that sentimental, even for big events. I'd rather just describe my history of events with people rather than show them pictures with ex's in it. At least when I talk about them, I dont have to mention an ex.

 

Your professionals told you not to give into her, but have they told you how to help her squash her insecurites? She's always going to feel the insecurites since shes always finding reasons to have them, in her mind.

 

WHat do you do to make her feel special?

What do you do for her to distract her from her insecurites?

You know, like creative romantic stuff. Im sure you've gone down this road.

 

BTW you could do a search on this forum for "insecurity" and see what posts come up that might give you ideas on how to work her away from this problem.

Edited October 10, 2009 by boogieboy

[JustLooking123]

Since you wrote, I've been to counseling a couple times. The counselor wants to hear my wife's side of the story and I've expressed that to my wife - but she still won't go. Any ideas?

 

 

Explain that to the counselor and ask how him/her how you should proceed. (This is a marriage/couples' counselor, right?) It seems like this itself is one major symptom of the overall power struggle.

[Fallen Angel]

I am sure that I am in the minority here, but as a woman I would be THRILLED to have a man I could trust take care of the budget. It is a job I simply do NOT want. Of course I am more than capable of doing it, it is simply that I don't want to HAVE to do it.

 

As long as the bills are all being paid on time, there is a resonable savings being set aside each month, and I have some spending cash in my pocket... I am happy!! I wouldn't mind asking for a bigger purchase, if I wanted one.. and if it was within the budget I don't think most men would be opposed to satisfying their SOs desires. *shrug*

 

I guess I am just old fashioned that way, but I WANT to be taken care of, and that includes letting him take care of his duty as a man and providing for me.

 

I have found when you let a man be a man, and let him lead, he will WANT to please you, and will do the right thing for the family finacially...

 

Again, I know I am in the minority here, but that is my opinion. LOL

[Gerhard]

This subsided significantly until recently - especially with Xmas right around the corner. My wife has been insisting on me buying her items that are priced higher than what I paid for a similar item for my ex-wife. And she wants me to send astronomical amounts of money to her family in the Philippines - amounts that don't comfortably fit into our budget.

 

I should note that it is a commonly accepted practice for American husbands of Filipina brides to help out their family. I know of some American/Filipina couples who are in financial ruin for "unexplained" reasons (obviously the nice husband sending too much $$$ to his wife's family).

[carhill]

Ouch. My instinct is you're in for an interesting ride on that horse (the wife's family).

[Gerhard]

Ouch. My instinct is you're in for an interesting ride on that horse (the wife's family).

It goes with the territory. But sending a little to help them out every month or two doesn't hurt us and it is the custom. However, when the wife wants her husband to send more money than the budget can comfortably allow, it means trouble.

[2sunny]

It goes with the territory. But sending a little to help them out every month or two doesn't hurt us and it is the custom. However, when the wife wants her husband to send more money than the budget can comfortably allow, it means trouble.

 

well you signed up for this scenario though. obviously YOU knew what you were getting into since it is a custom of her family - so now you live with it. and stop complaining... or divorce her demanding, complaining, self entitled a$$! or just tell her that whatever she intends to spend - she needs to earn herself - and that includes money sent to HER family!

 

come on... grow a backbone.

[Angel1111]

Seriously, even Dr. Phil tells people that a spouse who wants to put you in financial ruin has stepped into the 'dealbreaker' zone, and should be divorced if they don't change their ways. What your wife is doing is completely, 100% unacceptable. I truly don't understand why you don't just tell her how it's going to be and be done with these endless conversations with her. As far as I can tell, she only married you for what you can do for her and her family. She doesn't give a fig about the future of your lives together.

[Gerhard]

Seriously, even Dr. Phil tells people that a spouse who wants to put you in financial ruin has stepped into the 'dealbreaker' zone, and should be divorced if they don't change their ways. What your wife is doing is completely, 100% unacceptable. I truly don't understand why you don't just tell her how it's going to be and be done with these endless conversations with her. As far as I can tell, she only married you for what you can do for her and her family. She doesn't give a fig about the future of your lives together.

 

Both you and 2Sunny raise very good points. I need to be stronger on this.

 

What really bothers me is that my wife nags to get me to promise something (which I do under duress - in order to get her to shut up), then when I can't deliver, she says I'm not a man of honor.

[carhill]

Welcome to the world of manipulation

 

I stopped short of insanity and ate some of my net worth and got a D. Not saying that is your path, but something's gotta change, dontcha think?

[Love2love7]

I totally understand where you are coming from and your W should be more considerate of the situation. It's not only your future you're saving is hers also.

My H and I both work but he's the one who brings most of the money. He is also the one who takes care of our finances since I'm not that great in that area. So, we both pay the bills. I would LOVE to go on a shopping spree, LOVE to buy new jewelry but unfortunately we can't affort to :/, we could but then we would be in a financial hole. We still go out places and spend a little here and there but not go over our spending limit.

 

Anyways, I think you should sit her down and show her all the bills that have to be paid. Show her how much comes in and how much goes out.

Tell her that if you could you would give her the world. Women want to feel loved and cherish so take her out to a nice place at least once a month, spoil her a little bit.

Maybe she will see that you are at least trying to make her happy and she'll leave you alone about the whole stingy thing.

If that doesn't work...GOOD LUCK and GOD BLESS =)

[2sunny]

i always wonder why some women (and men) seem to think that the material things = love. it's almost as if she wants proof of your affection by the things you will buy her... which seems backwards.